We are brought to you today by The SHJ Patreon Membership, where seekers take action. If you have been listening to the podcast, you will have heard me talk about the new podcast that I just launched. It’s not just a podcast, but a community of people who truly want to make changes in their lives.  At the end of the day, we want you to have that feeling of accomplishment and satisfaction that you fulfilled your purpose. Can you imagine how great that will feel?! Well that’s what we’re doing.  We know that the best way to make lasting change is to surround yourself with like minded people. It’s human nature to slack off when nobody's looking, so we’re leveraging the power of accountability to help you take action on a consistent basis. We’re doing a low ticket membership to filter out the trolls and attract the people who are really serious about taking control of their destiny and fulfilling their potential. For a mere $5 a month, you can get access to the worksheets we talk about on the podcast, and join us live for the bi-weekly calls where we discuss the episode topics, and answer all your burning questions. To sign up, visit Patreon.com/selfhelpjunkie So join us, bring a friend, and we’ll see you on the call! Today I’m trying out a new format. I’m actually bringing back some of the early episodes with amazing guests. If you have a podcast over 300 episodes, some of the older ones drop off, so I thought it would be interesting to bring some of them back. In this episode you will hear from Annie Grace, the author of “This Naked Mind” which is regularly highlighted as one of the top books on sobriety. I have to admit, it’s a little cringy to hear myself as a new podcaster, but you’ll have to let me know what you think.  And with that, please enjoy this episode with Annie. Be Sure To Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!

Hi Friend,   Thank you so much for downloading the podcast!   If you haven’t met Light Watkins before today, you are in for a special treat. Light is the author of 4 books, the latest being “Travel Light: Spiritual Minimalism to Live a More Fulfilled Life”. I actually found him through listening to The Rich Roll Podcast, and his interview was so compelling I took a chance and invited him to be a guest to talk about how to find your purpose.    He’s also a meditation teacher, which a lot of people have resistance to, but his approach is so simple that it really lowers the bar and makes the experience more attainable and enjoyable.    Before we jump in, I have a couple of resources for you. The first one is Sober Life School where you’ll find a free guide: How to Quit Drinking: 30 Tips for 30 Days Printable 30 Day Cheat Sheet Tips on How to Control Cravings Mindset Hacks To Quit Drinking And More! Bonus: "The 3 Secrets To Sobriety Nobody Is Telling You" And if you get it, you’ll also get an occasional email from me with some of the mediations and resources I use to support my spiritual and personal goals.    The second resource is for those who are struggling to quit drinking but need private support due to work. I actually have a lot of clients who are doctors, attorneys or otherwise high profile who need to be able to work through their issues in a safe environment. If that sounds like something you need, you can set up a free discovery call to see if coaching is right for you. When you go to soberlifeschool.com, just look for “Coaching” and click the work with me button for more information.   One of the reasons why I have been hosting the podcast for so long is because I get to meet a lot of inspiring people who are doing amazing work in the world.  Light is definitely one of those people. So without further delay,  please enjoy this episode and let me know what you think!   Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes! Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Podcast Addict, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform. You can watch the interview on YouTube here. Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!            Connect with Light here: Website: https://www.lightwatkins.com   Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lightwatkins/  

Today is going to be a continuation of a new project called The Self-Help Junkie Podcast. I thought about just making it a series on this podcast, but I decided it should be its own thing. I’ll still be publishing episodes here that are focused on addiction recovery, but just feel like after nearly 8 years, there is another podcast format I’d like to explore that has more of a community aspect to it.    That format will be to identify personal development topics like self-esteem, shadow work, manifestation with evidence based practices. We will talk about what they are, why they’re important and to come up with 3 action items that we put into SMART goals so that we reduce the friction of creating new habits.   Here’s where you come in. As a community, we can start to implement the action items and “run the experiment” as they say in recovery rooms, to see what outcomes we experience. We’re going to meet bi-weekly on Zoom so you can share your thoughts with us about the action items, challenges you might be having and as a group we can come up with ideas that will help you move forward for a better outcome.   The overarching goal with all of this is three fold: to build connection, to feel better, and change our behavior in order to achieve our goals.    The founders group will be a $5 monthly membership to help us cover expenses and you can find the link in the show notes or go to patreon.com/selfhelpjunkie   https://www.patreon.com/selfhelpjunkie/membership   We will be tweaking the podcast along the way based on feedback, so your contributions will have a direct impact on the show.   If you have any questions, you can email me at selfhelpjunkiepodcast@gmail.com   I haven’t been this excited about a new project in a long time.  I feel like there are so many of us that are seekers and just below the surface is a helper, so together, I think we can accomplish amazing things!   So without further delay, please enjoy this episode and let me know what you think!   Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes! Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Podcast Addict, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform. You can watch the interview on YouTube here. Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-one-day-at-a-time-recovery-podcast/id1212504521 https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify    

Welcome to the podcast. In case you’re new here, my name is Arlina and I’ll be your host.   Before we jump in, I am going to ask for your help. We have been really lucky to get some amazing guests, and I have a whole list of dream guests that I would love to invite. Experts that are in psychology, trauma therapy, spirituality, but also high profile guests like in sports, movies, and other podcasts.   But in order to get certain guests, we need to have a significant following and a lot of 5 star reviews. It’s the first thing they look at. So if you could take a moment to either leave a review on Apple Podcasts if that’s how you’re listening, or just follow me on Instagram @arlinaallen it would then allow me to get a better response rate. Or shoot, if there’s someone you know who would be a great guest, you can reach out to me on IG for that too. Reach out to me anyway and say hi! I would love to hear from you! And as always, there are several free resources at soberlifeschool.com including the newsletter where you can get episodes delivered right to your email inbox.   Today I’m speaking with Bob Stark. He is a combat vet, an author, a family man, a person in long term recovery. Bob shares his story of growing up without a Father, his Mother’s multiple marriages, and the one that altered his identity and how all of this set the stage for substance use disorder. That along with 2 tours in Afghanistan and the inevitable resulting PTSD, took him down a dark path. His mother would warn him that it looked a lot like his grandfather’s path who was a vietnam vet and died tragically young of cirrhosis of the liver.   He’s going to share how he was able to heal from PTSD through yoga, meditation, writing and the 12 steps. I liked Bob immediately when I met him and I love how he has transformed his life. I know you will too. So without further delay, please enjoy this episode, with Bob! Connect with Bob here: Website: https://secretgardenalaska.org  

“I think when we get in that victim space, like it makes so much sense and certainly some people have had such horrific experiences, I can see why they would feel that way. But the truth is, that only holds you in that place.” Jason VanRuler   Today I’m speaking with Jason VanRuler. He is a licensed therapist, Coach, Speaker and Author of "Get Past Your Past, How Facing Your Broken Places Leads to True Connection". I had so much fun talking with Jason, he’s actually really funny, but we also covered a lot of ground in terms of finding practical solutions to the challenges a lot of us face in recovery.   We’re going to talk about why we replicate our family of origin, how to forgive your parents, and how to build confidence. We also talk about relationship dynamics and how to move from dysfunctional roles like being the rescuer, the victim, or the bully to being the coach, the survivor and the encourager. The framework is actually very practical and can shift your perspective very quickly.   There were so many gems in this conversation, I know you’ll walk away with something you can apply to your life today.   So without further delay, please enjoy this episode with Jason and please feel free to reach out to me on social media, and let me know what you think!   Be Sure to Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!  

Hi Friend,   Welcome to the podcast. In case you’re new here, my name is Arlina and I’ll be your host.   This episode is brought to you by Sobriety Reset, an online, self paced 30 Day Bootcamp designed to help you get through your first 30 days of living alcohol-free. Using evidence based practices, you will learn the skills you need to not only reduce cravings for alcohol but tackle all the challenges that come with developing a new lifestyle that you can feel proud of. Challenges like how to handle social situations, changing relationships, dealing with the root cause issues that may be compelling you to drink in the first place, and so much more! So if Dry January is proving to be harder than you thought check out sobrietyreset.com. Give it a try and if you are not fully satisfied you can get a full refund, no questions asked.    Today I’m speaking with Samantha Lander. She is a Functional Diagnostic Nutrition Practitioner, Certified Personal Trainer, and Holistic Lifestyle Coach. Samantha has a pretty incredible story. She shares how she started using drugs and alcohol in her teens like a lot of us do, but also how she endured domestic violence, addiction and ultimately prison. We talked about the unlikely path she’s taken to pull herself up out of her former lifestyle and into a life that she loves, helping others to heal their bodies through functional nutrition.    I really appreciate Samantha for her transparency, vulnerability, and her ability to help her clients achieve their goals. So without further delay, please enjoy this episode with Samantha   Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!  

Welcome to the podcast. In case you’re new here, my name is Arlina and I’ll be your host.   I think this episode is a long time in coming. Today I’m talking with Jake White, a young man who has dedicated his life to talking with kids about prevention. And he does it in a way that is fun, inspiring and he’s actually reaching the kids he’s speaking to!   Jake is the co-founder of Vive18, an author and podcast host of Party Talk- Where they focus on empowering leaders in youth drug prevention and he travels around the country talking with kids about how to have fun without drugs and alcohol.   We’re going to talk about the stresses kids face today, what inspires them and Jake’s unique and effective strategies to keep kids off drugs, even before they start.   But before we jump in, I want to share some of the resources I have to support you on your sober journey.    If you are just starting out, I have an online self paced course for you called Sobriety Reset. This is perfect for you if you are in the exploration phase. You might be in the process of taking a break, or experimenting with the idea of complete abstinence. Either way, this self-paced class will address the most common challenges from how to socialize without booze, how to prevent cravings, what to do if you get them, and self-care practices that strengthen your willpower so that you can take back control and feel great again! To find out more, just visit, sobrietyreset.com    Also, if you find that you have been struggling to stay sober, and you want private one on one support you can visit sober life school and check out my private coaching program. My approach is to do the deep work that addresses root cause issues, not just the symptoms.  There is a complete outline of the 3 phases are, what work we do together, and the evidence based practices that will help you achieve sobriety. If you’re tired of struggling and feeling defeated, and ready to break free, then visit Soberlifeschool.com. You can book some time with me to ask questions to find out if private coaching is right for you. Keep in mind this is the busiest time of year, so if you’re thinking about it, do it today before all the spots fill up!   So without further delay, please enjoy this episode with Jake, and message me on Instagram to let me know what you think!   Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!  

On the surface you would think my guest Kimberly Berlin had a fancy life of privilege growing up in the south of France, attending Juillard studying ballet, and traveling all over the world. But behind the veil, was a life of abuse, abandonment and addiction.    Today she will share her personal story of addiction, her moment of clarity and how she recovered. We get into some of the problems she encountered with someone at the first 12 step meeting she went to that kept her away for 7 years, but how she ultimately found her way back.   Kimberly is now a licensed integrated psychotherapist and IFS practitioner to help people overcome addiction and trauma. We’re going to get into what IFS is and how it works as a modality for trauma therapy. I’ve been doing it myself as a client, and I can personally vouch for how productive it can be at resolving long standing negative behavior patterns.    Before we jump in, as usual, I have a couple of announcements. The first one is there is a new guide at Sober Life School.com for those who are just starting their sober journey called “How to quit drinking: 30 Tips for Your First 30 Days”. It has advice on how to prepare your environment, how to navigate social situations and practical tips on how to prevent cravings or what to do when you feel tempted.    If you get it, you’ll also be added to my newsletter. I have a lot of big plans for 2024 and I can’t wait to share them with you! This includes partnerships with other well known teachers, including some NYT bestselling authors!    The newsletter is where I will be providing early access links to all the new classes and the Self-Help Junkie online meetings as well. I’ll announce it to people on my email list first, so make sure you get on it for early access and special bonuses.    That’s all for announcements, so without further delay, please enjoy this wide ranging conversation with Kimberly.    Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes! Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Podcast Addict, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform. You can watch the interview on YouTube here. Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!     Connect with Kimberly here: Website: https://www.kimberleyberlin.com/  

“Ambien, when taken as prescribed works great. But basically when I took it, it did something I really liked and I immediately wanted more. My first thought after my first night of Ambien was ‘more please’... I couldn’t wait to go to sleep and that went on for years.” Laura Cathcart Robbins is the best-selling author of the Atria/Simon & Schuster memoir, Stash, My Life In Hiding, and host of the popular podcast, The Only One In The Room. She has been active for many years as a speaker and school trustee and is credited for creating The Buckley School’s nationally recognized committee on Diversity, Equity, Inclusion, and Justice. Her recent articles on the subjects of race, recovery, and divorce have garnered her worldwide acclaim. She is a 2022 TEDx Speaker, and LA Moth StorySlam winner. Currently, she sits on the advisory boards of the San Diego Writer’s Festival and the Outliers HQ podcast Festival Hi Friend, Welcome to the podcast. In case you’re new here, my name is Arlina and I’ll be your host. Before we get into it, I have a couple of resources for you. On my IG account @arlinaallen I am sharing tips from my new guide: How to quit drinking: 30 Tips for your first 30 Days. So be sure to follow me there if you are just starting your alcohol-free journey, share it with a friend, or just follow for daily sobriety inspo. You can also download the whole guide at soberlifeschool.com If you need a little extra support during the holiday season, you can join the free women’s facebook group, just search “The one day at a time Private Women’s Group”. And I’ll look forward to meeting you there!

My guest today has been sober for a whopping 37 years, which by itself is absolutely amazing, but it’s his practical approach to success in business that piqued my curiosity. His approach is really centered on winning the day using sobriety principles. It’s a combination of intention setting, habit stacking guided by a higher purpose.   Doug Fleener is the author of a book called “ The Day Makes the Year (Makes a Life): Transform your work and life with One-Day Success. Doug is a professional who has developed a way to apply recovery principles to business that he shares in his book.   But before we jump in. I’m excited to share that Sober Life School has been re-launched with a fancy new website! It’s a lot cleaner looking and has a new resource guide for you that I know will be very helpful for those wanting to quit drinking. The guide is called “How to Quit Drinking One Day At A Time: 30 Tips for your first 30 Days”. These tips cover everything from how to prep for alcohol-free living, how to avoid cravings, what to do if you feel triggered, how to manage your emotions, how to talk to friends and family and a lot more. You can get a free copy just by visiting soberlifeschool.com   This episode has a lot of really practical advice, so without further delay, please enjoy this episode with Doug and let me know what you think!   Connect with Doug here: Website: https://www.dougfleener.com/ Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   Apple Podcasts https://apple.co/30g6ALF   Spotify https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   Amazon Music      Watch Full Episodes on YouTube! https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo  

We’re doing something a little bit different today, which is to look at addiction through the lens of the family. I can't tell you how many times I’ve talked to the family members of someone struggling with drugs & alcohol who just want to know how to help and are feeling scared, angry and confused. Shoot, I’ve been there myself! It’s a really tough spot to be in.   So today I’m speaking with Dr. Carrie Wilkens about the outdated messaging that is currently being circulated, what actually hurts, and what to do instead. We are going to review solutions provided in her book Beyond Addiction: How Science and Kindness Help People Change and the accompanying workbook with the tagline Evidence-based Skills to Help A Loved One Make Positive Change.    To give you a little insight as to what you can expect, I’m going to share an Excerpt from her blog about the myth of rock bottom:  “First, it promotes a belief that the change process cannot start until bottom is reached. It also implies that people won’t change unless they are “punished enough” by their own behavior that they see the light. Both of these assumptions could not be further from the truth and they have contributed to many treatment providers sending patients away and telling them to “come back when you’re ready.” It’s also contributed to family members and friends feeling like their only option is to step aside and watch their loved one suffer. Many opportunities for change and lives have been lost due to this flawed belief and culturally loaded statement.”   So good! I will leave a link in the show notes at odaatchat.com   The Myth of Rock Bottom - https://motivationandchange.com/who-needs-to-hit-rock-bottom/   I do have one quick announcement: There is a new resource available on my website called “How to Quit Drinking: 30 Tips for your first 30 Days”. It has practical strategies for getting started, how to avoid cravings, and what to do if you get a craving, and simple mindset hacks to get you through the day. You can download it for free at soberlifeschool.com.   I know this is going to be a great episode, so if you find it helpful or know someone who will, please share it.    Connect with Carrie here: Website: https://cmcffc.org/ Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   Apple Podcasts https://apple.co/30g6ALF   Spotify https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   Amazon Music      Watch Full Episodes on YouTube! https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo  

My guest today is a 2 time Grammy Award winner with 3 platinum albums, an Author, and Sober Advocate. I’m speaking of none other than Jim Sonefeld, drummer for Hootie and the Blowfish!   In this episode we talk about what it was like to ride the wave of fame after they got their big break on The David Letterman Show, and how he used alcohol to cope. We also talk about the pain of losing fame and his moment of clarity when his 4 year old daughter said 4 simple words to him.   But before we jump in, I have some resources for you. First is the bi-weekly podcast newsletter where you can get a digest of all the episodes, links to the show notes, and other resources that will support you on your journey to heal and thrive. To sign up, just visit SoberLifeSchool.com today!   And if you enjoy the podcast, please share with a friend, it’s the easiest way to support the podcast and I appreciate it more than you know!   I’m really excited to share this conversation with you, so without further delay, please enjoy this episode with Jim and let me know what you think!   Connect with Jim here: Website: https://jimsonefeld.com/wp/ Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   Apple Podcasts https://apple.co/30g6ALF   Spotify https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   Amazon Music      Watch Full Episodes on YouTube! https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo  

Today my guest is Dr Brooke Scheller, author of “How to Eat to Change How You Drink: Heal your gut, mend your mind and improve Nutrition to Change Your Relationship with Alcohol”.    On this podcast we talk a lot about psychology, family history, trauma, and all of the well known modalities for healing. Today we’re going to look at another approach that you can layer into your recovery practice - nutrition.   We first discuss Brooke’s own journey,  how her relationship with alcohol changed over the years to the point where she knew she had to stop and how she went on a quest to heal her body through nutrition. We discuss the quiz she has on her website to help Sober Curious people determine what kind of drinker they are and the specific healing modalities that work  best for each type.    We talk about the connection between protein and willpower and how to have proper nutrition to reduce cravings.   She also talked about how alcohol affects women in menopause and the link to breast cancer.   I learned a lot from Brooke in this conversation. I appreciate the scientific lens through which she sees alcohol use disorder and the tools she offers to help those struggling to find peace. So without further delay, please enjoy this episode with Brooke, and let me know what you think!   Connect with Brooke here: Website: https://www.functionalsobriety.com/ Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   Apple Podcasts https://apple.co/30g6ALF   Spotify https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   Amazon Music      Watch Full Episodes on YouTube! https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo  

Today I’m talking with Scott Strode, the Founder of The Phoenix, a Free Sober Active Community.    Scott is sharing his story of how trauma from his dysfunctional family, dyslexia and low self esteem lead to his addiction, and what he did to break the cycle. We talk about how The Phoenix came to be and all the ways that this organization is helping people recover in all 50 states, including people who are incarcerated.   Before we get started, I just have a small favor to ask. If you enjoy these conversations, it would mean the world to me if you shared this episode with a friend or subscribe to the YouTube channel. As the podcast grows, we can continue to bring on amazing guests that will help inspire you on your journey of healing.   And as always, if you need some free resources to get you started, like books, meditations, and even other recovery podcasts, you can visit soberlifeschool.com and join our monthly newsletter.   So that’s it for the intro! Please enjoy this episode with Scott Strode.   Connect with Scott here: Website: https://thephoenix.org/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/riserecoverlive/   Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   Apple Podcasts https://apple.co/30g6ALF   Spotify https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   Amazon Music      Watch Full Episodes on YouTube! https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo  

Of the 294 episodes I’ve published, I have to say this one feels like magic. BIG Magic. From the circumstances of how I met Elizabeth Gilbert, to the significance of the day we recorded the interview, it all felt magical. And I haven’t stopped thinking about this conversation since.    Just to give you a hint at how talented and brilliant she is, Eat, Pray, Love sold over 12 million copies and held the #1 spot on the NYT best seller list for over 6 months. If Wikipedia is correct, it lived on that list for 88 weeks! She was on The Oprah Winfrey show. If that isn’t impressive enough, Time Magazine included her on the 100 most influential people list in 2008.   Today she shares some of her experiences with writing the book that became a world-wide phenomenon, but also her recovery from sex and love addiction, and her experience with the 12 steps.    Just a heads up, we did have some technical issues about half way through but it’s not too bad.    I am so deeply honored to have her as a guest today. So, please enjoy this episode with Elizabeth Gilbert, and let me know what you think!   Connect with Elizabeth here: Website: https://elizabethgilbert.substack.com/   Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   Apple Podcasts https://apple.co/30g6ALF   Spotify https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   Amazon Music      Watch Full Episodes on YouTube! https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo  

Since we’re at the beginning of November, which is known as “Gratitude Month” I’m offering a free 30 day self love challenge in the One day at a time private women’s group. It is a daily post with simple suggestions like spend 5 minutes journaling, List 3 people who love you or take a hot bubble bath. I also like to share books, meditations and all kinds of recovery resources I find on the interwebs. So if you’re a woman and you’d like to join me, just search for the one day at a time private women’s group and I’ll see you there!   You are going to love my guest today. Chip Somers was described by Russell Brand in his book 'Recovery' as someone who has taught him that it was OK to talk about my feelings. That "he demonstrated that it was safe to be vulnerable and he was able to validate ideas I had about how to change my habits and suggest better ones."   He is the co-host of the “Soberful” podcast along with the beautiful and profoundly wise, Veronica Valle.   Chip has been sober for 39 years and today he shares his story of childhood sexual abuse, alcoholism, and drug addiction as well as his time in prison. Of course we talk about what he did to heal his trauma and what life is like now.   I’m really excited to share this conversation with you, so without further delay, please enjoy this episode with Chip and let me know what you think!   Connect with Chip here: Website: https://www.chipsomers.com/ Podcast: https://soberful.com/episodes/   Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   Apple Podcasts https://apple.co/30g6ALF   Spotify https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   Amazon Music      Watch Full Episodes on YouTube! https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo  

Thank you for downloading the podcast!   Today is round 2 with NYT Best selling author Susan Pierce-Thompson!   This is a 2 part episode, so if you haven’t heard the first part, it was all about her story. I got so much positive feedback that I know you’re going to love this conversation. We get into how BLE came to be, we address some of the controversy surrounding some of the comments I got when I first announced that I was interviewing her, and we get into all the details about the program.   Before we jump in, a word from our sponsor - Happy Soul Soap and Candle. This is actually one of my hobbies that has turned into a full blown obsession. I started making soap after my Mom passed away as a way to process my grief. It’s kind of strange how the whole thing happened. I was doom scrolling on Tiktok and went down the rabbit hole of soaptok. I started learning all about different ingredients,  techniques, fragrances and why its so much better than the detergent that’s passed off as soap in the grocery story.    As I was making soap I started sharing how to videos on Tiktok because I really saw the therapy benefits of being creative. Y’all, art therapy is a real thing.  I started getting a lot of questions on how to make soap, so I’ve created a ton of content on there about how to make soap for beginners. If you are newly sober and find that you have a lot of free time on your hands, you need a new hobby! Visit my Tiktok account at @happysoulsoap to learn how to make soap yourself, or if you’d like to treat yourself to a luxurious bar of rich and creamy handmade soap, then visit happysoulsoapandcandle.com!   That’s it for the intro! I’m really excited to share this episode with you today, so without further delay, please enjoy this conversation with Dr Susan Pierce-Thompson and let me know what you think!   Connect with Susan here: Website: https://www.brightlineeating.com/   Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   Apple Podcasts https://apple.co/30g6ALF   Spotify https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   Amazon Music      Watch Full Episodes on YouTube! https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo  

Today I’m speaking with Dr Susan Pierce-Thompson, who is not only a New York Times best selling author, she is also the creator of a program that has helped thousands and thousands of people to drop a significant amount of weight (I’m talking 20-100 lbs) and keep it off using 4 simple rules defined in her book “Bright Line Eating: The Science of Living Happy, Thin and Free”.   This is actually a 2 part series because when we did our pre interview chat and discovered we had SO much in common, I knew we weren’t going to be able to fit it all in one episode. Part one will be her story of how she became addicted to drugs and alcohol, how she overcame them and then her addiction transference to food and the origins of how she developed Bright Line Eating.    Before we jump in, a word from our sponsor - Sober Life School! When I am not working on the podcast, I am working with women who are really ready to take control over their lives so that they can live a life of clarity, purpose and have meaningful experiences.   What we all face is internal resistance. That resistance can show up in not only substance use disorders, but self-sabotage, procrastination and repeating behavior patters that leave us feeling stuck. Listen, I have been there and I know how to break through those barriers. I have done it in my own life and in the lives of the hundreds of women I have worked with over the last 29 years. With tools like hypnosis, coaching, and self-esteem building exercise, you can change. You can reach your goals, even if you’ve tried 1000 times and failed. The key is the right information, the right support and taking the actions that lead to amazing outcomes. If you’re ready to make life long changes, then visit soberlifeschool.com and book a no obligation call with me today! I’m really excited to share this episode with you today, so without further delay, please enjoy this conversation with Dr Susan Pierce-Thompson and let me know what you think!   Connect with Susan here: Website: https://www.brightlineeating.com/   Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   Apple Podcasts https://apple.co/30g6ALF   Spotify https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   Amazon Music      Watch Full Episodes on YouTube! https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo

There has been a lot of talk about “Mommy Wine Culture” in recent years. Specifically about how women are being sold a lie. A lie that says we should be able to do everything and if we don’t we’re failing, and that a glass of wine will smooth out the rough spots.    Today I’m speaking with Celeste Yvonne, author of “It’s not about the wine: The loaded truth behind Mommy Wine Culture”. She has really struck a nerve with her writing and thoughts on social media. Her platform on IG, @theultimatemomchallenge has over 112K followers!    In this conversation we talk about what Mommy wine culture is, the driving force behind it, and how Moms can take back control over their lives and live alcohol free.   Before we jump in, I have two resources for you.    First, I have two spots open for private 1:1 coaching where I use hypnosis to address blocks or resistance to progress. We all have moments where we struggle with self-sabotage, but there is absolutely a process to break those limiting behavior patterns. To set up a consultation call, just visit soberlifeschool.com   The second resource is the Self-Help Junkie series that I will be releasing early next week! This is where we discuss a topic like how to develop healthy self-esteem, define terms, why it’s important and 3 action steps you can take to apply it to your life. There will be a free pdf worksheet and I foresee a group coaching call for those of you who have questions or need help with resolving roadblocks. So stay tuned for that!   I’m really excited to share this conversation with you, so without further delay, please enjoy this episode and let me know what you think!   Connect with Celeste here: Follow on IG: https://www.instagram.com/theultimatemomchallenge/ Follow on TikTok:https://www.tiktok.com/@theultimatemomchallenge   Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   Apple Podcasts https://apple.co/30g6ALF   Spotify https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   Amazon Music      Watch Full Episodes on YouTube! https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo  

Today I’ll be speaking with Kohn Glay, a gifted shadow work coach. I found Kohn on TicTok after his video on shadow work went viral…like 42M + viral. He goes live on YouTube to share his wisdom and to support his growing community to do the shadow work for themselves. Kohn started doing this work after the tragic loss of his son who was just 16 years old. He used his platform to pour love and blessings into others as a way to deal with his grief and it now reaches millions of people. I learned a lot as he helped me through the Shadow Work Journal and I think you’ll get a lot out of this conversation as well.   This conversation will be one of the topics of The Self-Help Junkie series. My co-host Victoria and I will recap what it is, why it’s important, and 3 action items so that you can start to apply the practices into your own life.    I’m really excited to share this conversation with you, so without further delay, please enjoy this episode with Kohn and let me know what you think!   Connect with Kohn here: Visit Website:  Follow on TikTok: Follow on YouTube:   Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   Apple Podcasts https://apple.co/30g6ALF   Spotify https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   Amazon Music      Watch Full Episodes on YouTube! https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo  

Welcome to the podcast. Today we’re going to talk about a very important topic that is definitely not appropriate if there are kids around. So just a little heads up there. We’re going to briefly talk about the prevalence and impact of pornography. How it affects relationships, the hidden costs and subtle ways it changes how we see the world. We also talk about the impact it has on the younger generation and other challenges associated with sexual disfunction.   But fear not, we actually spend the majority of our time talking about addressing the root causes that drive our need to distract in unhealthy ways, how to cultivate more self-compassion and so much more. I found Jeremy to be one of the most grounded and thoughtful guests that I’ve ever had the pleasure of speaking with and I can’t wait for you to meet him!   But before we jump in, I have a couple of quick announcements. The first is I will be publishing a new series of episodes called the self help junkie that will come out early in the week. So I wanted to avoid any confusion if you see extra episodes. My co-host Victoria and I will be discussing a topic, starting with self-esteem, define what it is, why it’s important, and offer 3 action you can take to start improving in that area. The following week we’ll talk about how it went, outcomes if we did the action items, or problem solve for challenges.   The whole idea behind this project is that there are so many of us who are seekers, and while it’s great to educate yourself. gain insight and get a dopamine hit, without action, well it’s kinda pointless. Like the old saying goes, if nothing changes, nothing changes. And mood follows action, so we’re going to break down topics so that you can establish the why behind the action so that you can make these changes a priority.   And the second thing is that if you do listen to the series, we want to hear from you! So send me your questions and comments to selfhelpjunkiepodcast@gmail.com.   I’m really excited to share this conversation with Jeremy, so without further delay, please enjoy this episode and let me know what you think!   Connect with here: Visit Website: https://www.jeremylipkowitz.com/ Follow on Instagram:    Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   Apple Podcasts https://apple.co/30g6ALF   Spotify https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   Amazon Music      Watch Full Episodes on YouTube! https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo  

Welcome to the podcast. Right off the bat, I have to say that I’m so happy you’re listening to this episode. Ever since my conversation with Pam Grout, the number 1 new york times best selling author I have been absolutely buzzing! It’s like I forgot how powerful these manifesting techniques are and now I’ve reawakened to the exciting opportunities that are available to me. To all of us really. And that’s what we’re going to be talking about today.   Over 10 years ago now, Pam wrote “E-2, 9 do it yourself energy experiments that prove your thoughts create your reality”. It was such a huge success because people were doing the experiments and having these wild experiences! They’d tell their friends, their friends would have their own mind blowing experiences, tell all their friends and on and on it goes…even today, 10 years later after E2 came out.   She has a new book out “E-Cubed: Nine More Energy Experiments That Prove Manifesting Magic and Miracles Is Your Full-Time Gig”. Can’t wait to hear about your experiences!   But before we jump in, one of the common blocks to manifesting is negative subconscious beliefs. You might be wondering if you have them and what I can tell you is this: We all have them, but most of us are not connected to what they are because they are subconscious. But here’s how you can tell if you have subconscious beliefs that are blocking your ability to manifest. For instance, you want to stop drinking, lose weight, or be more successful. You know what to do, but you just don’t do it. Somehow you keep self-sabotaging. It doesn’t make sense. You are smart, you really want to reach your goal, but you keep slipping up. That is the sign that you have subconscious limiting beliefs! The good news is there is a process to uncovering the root cause, reprogram your mind and finally reach your goals. I take my clients through this process in private 1:1 coaching. If you’d like to learn more about how I can help, just visit soberlifeschool.com and set up a no obligation consultation. If you’re ready for change, this is your sign! Book your call today! I’m really excited to share this conversation with Pam, so without further delay, please enjoy this episode and let me know what you think!   Connect with Pam here: Visit Website: https://pamgrout.com/ Follow on Instagram:    Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   Apple Podcasts https://apple.co/30g6ALF   Spotify https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   Amazon Music      Watch Full Episodes on YouTube! https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo  

Welcome to another episode of the one day at a time recovery podcast. In case you are new here, my name is Arlina and I’ll be your host.   Today my guest is Dr. Paul Linde. He is the MEDICAL DIRECTOR of PSYCHIATRY AND COLLABORATIVE CARE with over 30 years’ experience in emergency psychiatric care. Dr Linde is also a published researcher, author and Clinical Professor Emeritus in Psychiatry at UCSF School of Medicine. We will be talking about alternatives to AA, moderation, and harm reduction medications.    I personally believe it’s important to keep an open mind and recognize that everyone is different, and that there are so many variables to recovery. My intention today is to educate myself on topics that are outside of my current understanding of how to approach addiction. As a disclaimer, I am obviously not a doctor, I don’t play one on the internet, nor do I endorse or suggest you try any of these treatments. That is between you and your doctor. After this conversation, you will have more information and a better understanding of options that are available.   But before we jump in, I wanted to take a moment to share that if you are looking for private one on one support, I can help. I work with women who are seeking to uncover subconscious blocks, break free of self-sabotaging behaviors, and build a life they love. If you would like to find out more, you can book a no obligation call with me by visiting SoberLifeSchool.com.   So without further delay, please enjoy this episode with    Connect with Dr Linde here: Visit Website: https://riahealth.com/ Follow on Instagram:    Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   Apple Podcasts https://apple.co/30g6ALF   Spotify https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   Amazon Music      Watch Full Episodes on YouTube! https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo  

Today, my guest is China Brezner. China earned her Master’s Degree in Clinical Psychology from Antioch University and has extensive experience working with teens, adults, couples and families. She began her career helping juvenile inmates and has worked with clients challenged by PTSD, anxiety, substance abuse, depression, disordered eating, sexual orientation, and gender identification. Spending over 13 years in the addiction field, she has immense experience with the 12-step recovery model. She has been a clinical director for multiple treatment centers, at the detox, residential, and PHP/IOP level of care.  China will be sharing her story of addiction, how she was able to recover and the tools and practices she uses to maintain her sobriety.   But before we jump in, I just wanted to share that my book: How to Quit Drinking: A 12 Step Exploration Guide is finally with the editor! It’s a huge milestone, but we have a long way to go. The book will be focusing on dispelling common myths about 12 Step as well as some practical guidance to complete the process in a safe and productive way. If you are curious about 12 Step programs, you can actually download the first chapter for free by visiting 12stepexplorationguide.com   And as always, if you are looking for private one on one support, you can book a no obligation call with me to talk about Sober Coaching. Just visit SoberLifeSchool.com to book a time with me today!   So without further delay, please enjoy this episode with China!   Connect with China here: Visit Website: https://clearbehavioralhealth.com/ Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   Apple Podcasts https://apple.co/30g6ALF   Spotify https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   Amazon Music      Watch Full Episodes on YouTube! https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo  

If you’re listening to this podcast, I’m going to assume that you either want to quit drinking or you already have. For those who want to quit drinking there are typically two camps. Those who think of themselves as alcoholics and everyone else. I got sober in a time when AA was really the only program available, and people who went were facing a serious problem.     Nowadays, there are all kinds of programs that help people stop drinking no matter where they fall on the addiction spectrum. This episode will focus on the moderate or “middle lane drinkers”.   And the perfect guest to talk about how to help those people is Andy Ramage. He was the co-founder of “one year no beer”, he’s the author of two books: “The 28 Day Alcohol-Free Challenge: Sleep Better, Lose Weight, Boost Energy, Beat Anxiety” and “Let's Do This!: How to use motivational psychology to change your habits and change your life” and Founder of The Arete Way Coaching Certification Program.    I have to say, Andy is different. He is special. He is so full of excitement and enthusiasm, that his energy is totally contagious. So contagious in fact that I have decided to partner with him.. There is a coaching certification program starting in October, that I myself will be participating in, so if you feel like your current career is no longer fulfilling, or you are looking to do something that is more in line with your authentic self, then check out his course. I will leave an affiliate link in the show notes at odaatchat.com. If you do decide that you’d like to get certified, I’m offering a special bonus to help you create your first coaching offer. Because after you get certified, you’ll need a magnetic website that tells people how you can help. Honestly, online marketing has been one of my favorite obsessions over the last 20 years, so I got you covered!   Andy’s story is really amazing, he’s a lot of fun and is super smart. I can't wait for you to meet him, so without further ado, please enjoy this episode with Andy. Connect with Andy here: Visit Website: Andy Ramage Coaching   Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   Apple Podcasts   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   Spotify   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   Amazon Music      Watch Full Episodes on YouTube! https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo  

Today my guest is Author, Speaker and Recovery Advocate Melissa Bond. Simon & Shchuster sent me a galley copy of her new book “Blood Orange Night: My Journey to The Edge of Madness” and I have to say, I was riveted from page one. I was introduced to a world I knew little about which is insomnia paired with a benzodiazepine addiction.    I confess that I don’t normally talk to people who are not practicing abstinence, and frankly I didn’t know if I would even publish this episode, but I’m so glad that I am. Melissa educated me not only on the nuance of benzo usage, but the appropriate terminology to describe this specific substance use disorder. We also discuss the dangers of unsupervised detox from these substances and the protocols and professional support required to get off of them.   But before we jump in, I’m ridiculously excited to share with you that I have finally found an editor for my new book coming out this fall. The working title is:  “How to Quit Drinking: A 12 Step Exploration Guide: Overcome Barriers to Entry and Clarify Misconceptions to Access a Transformational Program for an Alcohol-Free Life”   Since I started the podcast in 2016, I was exposed to entire communities of people who have had reservations about the 12 step program for a variety of reasons. I gotta say, I was shocked to hear that so many people had such strong negative feelings about a program that I absolutely loved. It made me wonder, what is the difference between their experiences and mine? What were the specific reasons why they haven't tried it, or if they did try it why did they leave? I have heard things like “It’s a religious program, or I am not sure I’m an alcoholic, I am not powerless, and it’s a cult.” just to name a few.   This book is an attempt to identify the reasons, share context and perspectives that will clear up misconceptions. My hope is this will allow people to overcome common barriers to entry so that they can complete the 12 steps and live life alcohol free.  As my gift to you, you can download the first chapter for free by visiting 12stepexplorationguide.com    I’m still in the process of editing it, so if you have ideas of what should be included, there is still time to make your voice heard! Just hit reply to the email when you download the first chapter and let me know what you think!   So without further ado, please enjoy this very enlightening episode, with Melissa.   Connect with Melissa here: Visit Website: https://www.melissaabond.com/ Follow on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/melissabauthor/   Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   Apple Podcasts https://apple.co/30g6ALF   Spotify https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   Amazon Music      Watch Full Episodes on YouTube! https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo  

Today my guest is Brad Orsted, an award-winning wildlife and conservation filmmaker/photographer, author, speaker and wilderness therapy instructor. Brad’s work has appeared on Nat Geo Wild, The BBC, PBS, Nature, The Washington Post and Smithsonian Channel. Brad’s most recent film, “The Beast of Our Time: Grizzly Bears and Climate Change” is narrated by none other than Jeff Bridges. The film recently won Best Environmental Film Award at the Los Angeles Film Festival. We will be discussing his new memoir, “Through the Wilderness: My Journey of Redemption and Healing in the American Wild”, available now wherever books are sold. But before we jump in, I’m excited to share that I have made a lot of progress on my book “How to Quit Drinking, A 12 Step Exploration Guide. Overcome barriers to entry, Clarify Misconceptions and access a process of transformation for an alcohol-free life”.    The first chapter is available now as my gift to you, just visit 12stepexplorationguide.com, enter your email address and it will be automatically delivered to your inbox!    The purpose of this book is to share everything I wish I could say to someone who wants to break free of their addiction and is thinking about giving the 12 steps a shot. My goal is to help alleviate fears around attending meetings and clear up some common misconceptions, which there are many.    But this isn’t book isn’t about invalidating anyone’s negative experiences, in fact it’s my attempt to validate them and offer a safe path through the process in order to help people who want to quit drinking and live alcohol free.   As the book progresses, I will be sharing some of the suggestions and practical strategies from additional chapters. My goal is to provide the information to the people who need it now because the book is still going to take some time to complete. If you need support now, and you’re either not ready to try 12 step or want to, you can always work with me directly through my private coaching program. I utilize both hypnosis and compassionate recovery coaching to help you reach your goals. Just visit soberlifeschool.com to book a strategy call with me.   And if you haven’t signed up for the weekly newsletter with additional resources I find on the interwebs, you can find it on the soberlifeschool.com website as well. So that’s it for the intro today. Please enjoy this episode with Brad.   Connect with  here: Visit Website: https://www.bradleyorsted.com/ Follow on Instagram: @brad_orsted Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   Apple Podcasts https://apple.co/30g6ALF   Spotify https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   Amazon Music      Watch Full Episodes on YouTube! https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo  

Today my guest is someone who has been on the very prestigious New York Times Best Seller list, not once, twice or three times but FOUR times for non fiction books! Truly an incredible achievement. She was the ghost writer for two of the most spiritual luminaries of our time, Archbishop Desmond Tutu and The Dali Lama. She also wrote the life story for Anthony Ray Hinton called The Sun Does Shine that was chosen for Oprah’s book club in 2018.  Her name is Lara Love Hardin and her newest book “The Many Lives of Mama Love” was SO good, I absolutely devoured it in about 2 days. I can’t wait for you to meet her!     But before we jump in, I want to share an experience I had recently. I went paddle boarding with a friend who is also in recovery and you know how we are, small talk isn’t a thing so as we were getting into it, I was telling her about some of the guests I had on recently that were relevant to what she was sharing. She was like, Oh I have to get back to the podcast because some of the topics weren’t really connecting to anything I was going through. So that got me thinking, I wonder what topics I could include for future episodes? What are YOU struggling with and what topics do YOU want to hear about? You can let me know by sending me a message on IG @arlinaallen or @odaatpodcast, the FB page called The One Day At A Time Podcast or shoot me an email at arlina@odaatchat.com.   Also don’t forget I have a couple of free guides for you. One is the ultimate sobriety checklist that you can download when you visit soberlifeschool.com, and there’s also a resource guide, aptly named “100 resources for your first 100 days” on that same website.   And as always, If you are enjoying the podcast then please share this episode with your friends in recovery. It’s an easy act of service that supports the show and your friends.   That’s it for announcements, please enjoy this episode with the super talented Lara Love Hardin.   Connect with Lara here: Visit Website: https://www.laralovehardin.com/ Follow on Instagram: @laralovehardin   Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   Apple Podcasts https://apple.co/30g6ALF   Spotify https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   Amazon Music      Watch Full Episodes on YouTube! https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo

Today my guest is Victoria LaMadeline. She has been clean and sober for over 19 years and we’re going to be talking about why she left her NA community and what she does now to stay sober.    Victoria and I also making plans to do a podcast series called “the self help junkie podcast” where we talk about books, podcasts, and psychology and how to apply the information to your life. I think it’s going to be a great series because so many of us are obsessed with personal growth, but it can be tricky to take action on it sometimes. Each episode will cover the ideas that can help us evolve and specific actions for transformation. Stay tuned for more on that later!   But before we jump in, I thought it would be helpful to talk about the difference between peer support and professional support in terms of seeking help to get sober. When I first got sober in 94, I was broke and couldn’t afford professional help so I went to 12 step meetings to learn how to stop drinking. I’m kind of an all or nothing kinda girl so I jumped in with both feet. I did the whole 90 meetings in 90 days, found a whole new friend group, got a service position, got a sponsor and worked the steps. I had an amazing experience and I loved it all. But having said that, I discovered I had some traumatic experiences that required professional help. I needed to work with someone who was trained in helping someone heal from trauma and someone who could provide the confidentiality and safety required for trauma work.   Both were absolutely necessary for me in the beginning. I needed peer support that I could call on any time. People who would be willing to spend hours taking me through step work and socializing with me. I needed friends and community, but also professional support for the big stuff.   I mention this because I think it’s easy to confuse the two. I made mistakes by expecting too much from my peer group at times. I also suffered needlessly at times by not seeking professional help when I needed it. So my encouragement to you is to seek out the help you need from those who are willing and able to give it. There are so many resources available to us now and it’s only a Google search away!    And if you don’t know where to start, you’re welcome to book some time with me by visiting soberlifeschool.com  That’s it from me, please enjoy this episode with Victoria   Connect with Victoria here: Visit Website:  Follow on Instagram:    Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   Apple Podcasts https://apple.co/30g6ALF   Spotify https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   Amazon Music      Watch Full Episodes on YouTube! https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo  

Today my guest Jeannine Lindgren, host of the Chasing Heroine Podcast. She was on a few weeks ago, but we had so much and she has so many relatable stories I just had to invite her back!     But before we jump in, I’m going to offer some resources to help you on your recovery journey. So first, if you are a woman and would like to join my free private women’s group on facebook, just do a search for “The one day at a time private women’s group”. I post other podcasts I listen to in there along with inspirational cards, workshops, and it’s just a nice place to connect with other supportive women.   Another resource I offer is a free pdf called “100 resources for your first 100 days”. There are SO many sober podcasts, books and online support groups available at zero cost and I have put some of my favorites in a list for you so you don’t have to go hunting for them. You can download it by visiting soberlifeschool.com which is my main website. It acts as a hub for the podcast, coaching, classes and you can even book a free 30 minute strategy call if you’d just like some help putting a sobriety plan together. It’s my gift to you!   I often think about you, my friends who listen to all the episodes and leave reviews. I wonder if you even realize how important you are. By taking in information that expands your heart and mind, you are having an important impact on everyone around you. And by sharing episodes and leaving reviews, you are helping others too. Maybe it’s a Mom or Dad who is struggling to be a good parent. Maybe it’s someone who feels lost and alone. You never know who you might be helping just by showing up and doing the work. So I want to take a moment to say thank you. You are stronger than you know and I’m so grateful we are walking this journey together.   And now, please enjoy this conversation with Jeannine!   Connect with  here: Visit Website:  Follow on Instagram:    Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   Apple Podcasts https://apple.co/30g6ALF   Spotify https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   Amazon Music      Watch Full Episodes on YouTube! https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo  

Today we have a returning guest, Ted Perkins. Former Hollywood film producer and author. The first time he joined me on the podcast, we talked about his amazing story of recovery and his book, “Addicted in Film: Movies we love about the habits we hate”. We talked a lot about the power of storytelling and how we can use movies to connect with wisdom that comes from witnessing others transform.   In this episode we’re talking about the new companion workbook called “Recovery Movie Meet-ups”. It’s backed by the co-founders of SMART Recovery, Harvard Psychiatry Professors and many well respected thought leaders in the addiction recovery space. We will go into detail about how to use the workbook to facilitate group activities and discussions.   But before we jump in, I am pleased to announce the next session of my signature class "Reinvent," a six-week self-esteem class for women that will begin on July 25th. The class is based on the premise that we only allow into our lives what we believe we deserve on a subconscious level. We will use neural plasticity, manifestation techniques, and hypnosis to remove blocks and help you take action that is aligned with your authentic self. The class will help you identify internal blocks that are keeping you feeling stuck and break out of negative behavior patterns. The truth is that you are more powerful than you realize, and I will help you tap into that power so you can create the life you want. To register, just visit selfesteemcourse.com and if you register by July 21, you can bring a friend for free!   So that’s it for announcements, and without further delay, please enjoy this episode with Ted   Connect with Ted here: Visit Website: https://www.recoverymoviemeetups.com/   Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   Apple Podcasts https://apple.co/30g6ALF   Spotify https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   Amazon Music      Watch Full Episodes on YouTube! https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo  

Today I’m chatting with Britt Frank. She is an author,  licensed neuropsychotherapist and trauma expert who is trained in IFS (Internal Family Systems) and SE (Somatic Experiencing). In addition to her private practice, Britt is also a speaker and an award-winning adjunct instructor at the University of Kansas, where she’s taught classes on ethics, addiction, and clinical social work. She really has so much to share, I know you’re going to walk away with tools you can use today.   But before we jump in, I have some resources for you. First, if you go to soberlifeschool.com, you will see links to my 6 week self esteem class called “Reinvent”. It’s a small group coaching class for women that’s starting soon, where we do a short hypnosis session to rewire your subconscious mind for high self esteem, we use manifestation techniques like visualization, and self care practices to help you actualize your highest authentic self. It’s an amazing class and the transformations are incredible! And if you sign up by next Friday, you can bring a friend for free!   The second resource on my website is a free strategy call with me. If you are struggling with overcoming addiction, relationship challenges or self sabotaging behaviors, I can help you create a unique plan to help you reach your goals. There is a link to my calendar where you can request a call so that we can find resources to fit your specific situation.   And as always, if you find these resources helpful, the best way to support the podcast is by leaving a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts and subscribing on YouTube. So without further delay, please enjoy this episode with Britt!   Connect with Britt here: Visit Website: https://www.scienceofstuck.com/ Follow on Instagram:    Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   Apple Podcasts https://apple.co/30g6ALF   Spotify https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   Amazon Music      Watch Full Episodes on YouTube! https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo  

This episode is going to be a little different than others in the sense that we’ll be talking about highly controversial, but also profoundly effective methods of treating addiction, specifically the clinical use of psychedelic assisted therapy. I’ve been researching this topic for a few years now and the case studies from clinical trials, the MAPS organization, documentaries like “How to change your mind” and scientific based podcasts like Huberman Lab are overwhelmingly positive.    That is not to say it’s a cure all or a solution for everyone. As a disclaimer, I am not a doctor and I don’t play one on the internet. None of this content should be construed as medical advice or be construed as a recommendation to use any of the substances mentioned in this episode. There are physical, psychological, and sometimes legal risks with such usage. Please consult your doctor before considering anything we discuss in this conversation.    I realize this topic might be upsetting to some, but I’m going to ask you to suspend judgment until you gather all the evidence from multiple sources. I think we’re in a critical time of evolution in the addiction recovery space. If you consider how controversial prozac was when it came out 30 years ago, and how far we’ve come in understanding that it has a place, I think in time, attitudes will be generally more accepting of psychedelic assisted therapies.    If you are in a 12 step program, I urge you to research AA.org and look for the pamphlet titled “P-11 The A.A. Member—Medications and Other Drugs” for guidance.   My guest today for this important topic is Dr Steven Radowitz. He is the Chief Medical Officer at Nushama and also runs the primary care program at Goldman Sachs. He completed his M.D. at Chicago Medical School and worked at St. Vincent’s as Medical Director of the inpatient alcohol and opiate detox and treatment unit.   Dr. Radowitz’s focus is getting to the underlying source before it manifests as “dis-ease,” a misalignment of mind, body, and spirit. He believes psychedelics are a powerful tool to discover the origin of imbalance. On a spiritual journey with Kabbalah, he also studies meditation and yoga. At Nushama, he leads one of the most experienced teams in psychedelic medicine. But before we jump in, I would like to remind all of my listeners that if you feel like something is missing and find yourself wanting to go deeper into your healing journey, I’m here to help! You can actually book a free strategy call with me to find out how coaching and hypnosis work to help you break free from self sabotaging behaviors and stubborn habits. Just go to odaatchat.com where you can schedule a call with me today! There are also a lot of free resources, show notes, and a large catalog of nearly 300 episodes.    And if you enjoy listening to the podcast then please, go to Apple Podcasts and leave a 5 star rating and review. I read every single one! It’s an easy way to show your support and it really means the world to me.    That’s all the preamble I have, thank you for hanging in there! Please enjoy this episode with Dr Steven Radowitz   Connect with Dr Radowitz here: https://nushama.com/   Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   Apple Podcasts https://apple.co/30g6ALF   Spotify https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   Amazon Music      Watch Full Episodes on YouTube! https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo  

Today we have a returning guest, Licensed Psychotherapist, Addiction specialist and author, Dr Donna Marks. She has been in practice for over 30 years and has helped millions of people world wide. We’ll be talking about her new book “The Healing Moment: 7 Paths to Turn Messes into Miracles of Love”. I got an advance reader copy, which I LOVE. Also, I tried to hit all 7 paths which are: The Voice of Love Control Trust Forgiveness Respect Abundance Self-love We go deeper into some topics more than others, but this is only an hour-long podcast, so I highly recommend you get the book. Dr Marks draws on her own experiences but also A Course In Miracles,  a book that had a HUGE impact on my life when I first got sober nearly 30 years ago.   But before we jump in, I would like to remind all of my listeners that if you feel like something is missing and find yourself wanting to go deeper into your healing journey, I’m here to help! You can actually book a free strategy call with me to find out how coaching and hypnosis work to help you break free from self sabotaging behaviors and stubborn habits. Just go to odaatchat.com where you can schedule a call with me today! There are also a lot of free resources, show notes, and a large catalog of nearly 300 episodes.    And if you enjoy listening to the podcast then please, go to iTunes and leave us a 5 star rating and review. I read every single one! It’s the best way to show your support and it really means the world to me. And in case you didn’t know we also have a YouTube channel in case you’re curious what our guests look like! So that’s fun! anyway… without further delay, please enjoy this episode with Dr. Donna Marks   Connect with  here: Visit Website:  Follow on Instagram:    Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo  

Today my guest is Dr Allen Berger who is making his return to talk about his book “12 Stupid Things That Mess Up Recovery: Avoiding Relapse through Self-Awareness and Right Action.” We were actually able to get through all 12 things!   I just wanted to add how much I admire Dr. Berger. He was right in the middle of a very painful experience and he handled it with such grace and courage. You are going to hear him process some of his grief in real time, in a very real and vulnerable way. I was so impressed with his ability to stay with his feelings without shame or distraction.  So without further delay, Please enjoy this episode with Dr Allen Berger   Connect with Dr Berger here: Visit Website: https://abphd.com/   Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo  

Today my guest is Nadia Davis, Author of Home is Within you: A memoir of recovery and redemption. I think it’s going to be impossible to encapsulate just how accomplished Nadia is but I’m going to give you some of the highlights. She graduated from UCLA, she’s an accomplished attorney who worked to free Arthur Carmona from prison after a wrongful conviction, she's a gifted kundalini yoga instructor, and the mother of 3 beautiful young men.    Nadia has been through more in one lifetime than anyone should have to endure, including sexual assault, a horrific car accident, a tumultuous marriage in public life with a state attorney general, pubic shaming, and chronic relapse.    But this is not a tale of woe, it’s a story of triumph. What is amazing to me is her tireless persistence and determination to heal. You will hear her story in her own words, the wisdom and insights she has received, and the tools she uses to progress on her spiritual journey.    Just a little housekeeping before we get started I would like to remind you of the resources available on my website at odaatchat.com You can access show notes, past episodes or information about private 1:1 coaching with me. If you’ve heard past conversations, you will know I use hypnosis in my coaching practice to facilitate behavior change by addressing root cause issues. If you’d like to find out more, you can also schedule a free strategy call with me today.    And if you enjoy listening to the podcast then please, go to iTunes and leave us a 5 star rating and review. It’s the best way to show your support for the podcast. So without further delay, please enjoy this episode, with Nadia   Connect with Nadia here: Visit Website: https://www.nadia-davis.com/ Follow on Instagram:    Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo  

Today my guest is Phillip Andrew Barbb, 2x Emmy nominated producer, Author and Performance Coach. Phillip joins me today to share his recovery story, insights and wisdom from 15 years of sobriety, and so many things I can’t even list them all! This is by far one of the longest conversations I’ve had to date, but he was saying so many good things, we just kept it flowing!     But before we jump in, I wanted to give you a sneak peek into one of our upcoming guests that I just interviewed today.   Britt Frank is the author of “The Science of Stuck: Breaking through Inertia to find your path forward” One of the many tips she gives is to NOT use metaphors when describing your situation. For instance if you feel overwhelmed, don't say “My life is a dumpster fire!” because your brain will trigger your nervous system into fight, flight, or freeze response.    Instead, list the specific things you have to do, then break that list down into tiny little micro steps, pick one, and do it! This makes sense to me because what I know for sure, is mood follows action. Once we start taking tiny little micro steps, we can start building momentum and make forward progress. I’m really excited to publish that one, so be sure to come back for that one!   I hope you enjoy this week’s episode with Phillip, so without further delay, let’s get into it!  

Today my guest is the fabulous host of The Chasing Heroine Podcast. I just wanna say, buckle up, because you are in for a wild ride. When you get two ADHD women together who are super passionate about Game of Thrones, telling stories and recovery, you get a wild episode!    I loved this episode because Jeannine is so transparent, vulnerable, and honest about her struggles with her 15 year addiction. She isn’t afraid to tell it like it was or share the wisdom of lessons learned in recovery. She is a living miracle of transformation and I can’t wait for you to meet her!   But before we jump in, I would like to share a quote that has really been working on my soul as of late. The quote is from Peter Crone who said ”Life will bring you people and circumstances to reveal where you are not free.”     I heard it right when I was feeling super triggered by someone very close to me who is suffering. I immediately recognized it as very old pain from my childhood when I watched my sister struggle with mental illness. In my young mind, I thought it was my job to save her, but I always felt like I failed her which made me feel horrible about myself. I remember what a hopeless and powerless feeling it was.   So to have been triggered in my current circumstance, it absolutely showed me where I’m not free. What I am reminded of is the idea that I can take a moment to acknowledge my feelings, validate them and to let go of what’s not mine. Other people’s feelings are not my responsibility, especially when they don’t want my help. Freedom comes when I can process through the cycle and return to peace. That’s how I regain my freedom from obsession.    So if you have challenging people or circumstances in your life, I hope this will help you to let go of what’s not yours so you can be happy, joyous and free.   That’s it from me, please enjoy this episode with Jeannine.    Connect with  here: Visit Website:  Follow on Instagram   Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo  

Today my guest is Chris Stewart. He’s an author, motivational speaker, and an inspiring person in long term recovery. When he was 15 he chose to leave his family and become a rock star rather than go to Europe to live with his parents who were missionaries. As you can imagine, it was a rough road. Chris shares what it was like to be on his own so young, how he fell into addiction, years of relapse and finally how he was able to break his addiction and build a life of purpose and meaning. He has dedicated his life to helping others recover from addiction, so you know I love him already!   But before we jump in, I want to share something I learned from a guest I’m scheduled to interview, China Brezner. She is the Clinical Director at Clear Recovery Center and a licensed marriage family therapist. So before I interview anyone on the podcast, I do a pre interview chat to kinda break the ice and discuss topics for the podcast. What came out of my chat with China was the idea that in order to treat underlying trauma, the problem of addiction needs to be resolved first. The lesson here is that the tools of recovery should be used in order. For instance before moving to deep trauma work like EMDR, it’s important to stabilize first so that it doesn’t trigger a relapse.   That makes perfect sense to me! We have so many tools and resources available to us in recovery, that it can be overwhelming to the point of paralysis. I know in my own coaching practice that it's important to space out the resources I offer. My recommendation is that in the beginning, we set up a daily self care of no more than 3 activities like consuming a daily reader, 10 minutes of meditation and 10 minutes of journaling. It’s been my experience that a routine you can complete is 100x better than the elaborate one you never get to.    So I hope that helps! Make sure you are subscribed to hear my conversation with China, and Please enjoy this episode with Chris Stewart.   Connect with Chris here: Visit Website: https://www.chrisstewartworldwide.com/ Follow on Instagram: @chrisstewartworldwide   Watch this episode on YouTube! ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo  

Today my guest is Anna David, NYT Best Selling Author, podcast host of “On Good Authority”, and Founder of Legacy Launch Pad Publishing. This episode will be a little different than what you’re used to, and I mean that in the best way possible. Especially if you find yourself in a place in recovery where you are craving a life that is in alignment with a higher purpose. We’ll be catching up a bit but mostly talking about her new book “On Good Authority: 7 Steps to Prepare, Promote and Profit from a How-To Book that Makes You the Go-To Expert.   What we’re talking about today is really about orienting your life so that it’s in alignment with your purpose, and the vehicle is through storytelling and book publishing. She has created a very successful company that helps people build a business through a book and has had some incredible client success stories. So if you are craving a life and work with deeper meaning, and you think you might have a book in you, even in the distant future, this episode is for you.   Just as a quick side note, this is actually Anna’s second appearance, so to hear her full recovery story, check out episode 53 on the website at odaatchat.com or better yet, you can read her memoir “Party Girl”. It’s a wild story filled with humor, insightful wisdom and hope.   But before we jump in I’d like to share some insights that I gleaned from the mega successful book, Atomic Habits. Specifically How to create a good habit using the 4 laws of habit creation. It’s not a recovery book per se, but the principles are incredibly applicable to recovery.   I’m going to be reading a worksheet I downloaded from the atomic Habits website and it’s the habits cheat sheet.   So the four laws are: 1) Make it Obvious. 2) Make it attractive 3) Make it easy and 4) Make it Satisfying. If we look at these laws through the lens of recovery we can apply them to things like developing a self care routine that might include prayer & meditation, exercise, meetings, or building a support system. You can make these things obvious by putting them on your calendar. You can make it attractive by inviting a friend to do these activities with you. You can make it easy by using the 2 minute rule. For instance if you’re trying to start a meditation habit you can make it easy by meditating for 2 minutes. And the 4th law: make it satisfying by giving yourself when you complete the habit. This is obviously an oversimplification but gives you a brief overview into making new healthy habits. I encourage you to get the book for a deeper dive and a ton of practical and actionable advice. Since this is such a popular book I imagine a lot of you have already read it, so I would love to hear how you have applied it to your recovery! Shoot me a message on social media or email me at arlina @ odaatchat.com   So that’s it from me!  Please enjoy the episode with Anna David!   Connect with Anna here: Visit Anna’s Websites:  https://www.legacylaunchpadpub.com/ https://annadavid.com/   Watch the interview on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo  

Today my guest is Dawn Nickel, Author of “She Recovers Every Day: Daily readings to support your recovery practice”. She is also the co-founder of SheRecovers, a large worldwide non profit organization that supports women in recovery. There are annual conferences with about 500 attendees and some of the most amazing speakers who are literally changing lives. They also have free online meetings every day that are really incredible.   Fun fact, I believe in the SheRecovers foundation so much, I actually got certified as a SheRecovers coach two years ago.   We met to talk about her new book, which I highly recommend, and not just because she included me in it, but because she has so much practical wisdom packed into every entry. We had a wide ranging conversation about her experiences with addiction, domestic violence, suicide attempts, workaholism and how to process grief.    You can listen to her first interview here: https://odaatchat.com/index.php/2018/04/21/dawn-nickel/   So that’s it!  Please enjoy the episode with Dawn.   Connect with Dawn here: Visit Website: https://dawnnickel.com/  Follow on Instagram: @recoveringdawn   Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo  

Today my guest is the Founder and CEO of Wired For Addiction®, Dr. Evelyn Higgins is a recognized international expert in the epidemiology of addiction.  As a Certified Addictionologist, Diplomate of the American College of Addictionology and Compulsive Disorders, and Diplomate of the American Board of Disability Analysts specializing in pain management.    We are going to talk about understanding the genetic markers of addiction, and how a simple test could identify missing chemicals that contribute to the mental health disorders that lead to addiction like anxiety and depression. Her work is fascinating and I can’t wait for you to hear it.   But before we jump in, it’s time for new resources! I just completed the 12 step workshop last week and the topic was step 12 which is about carrying the message, or in other words, being of service to those who suffer from addiction. I think I’ve probably shared this before but it’s worth repeating.   For a lot of people with little kids or constrictive schedules, I would like to offer up a flexible and simple way to be useful, and that is to practice what I call “willingness calls”. It’s also a simple way to establish a support system if you don’t have one already.   A willingness call is simply to find 3 or 4 people that you can reach out to on a regular basis to check in with. You do it when you feel good, because most of us just want to isolate when we feel bad. There’s an old saying that we don’t rise to the level of our expectation, we fall to the level of our training.   It can be a short call, just a hey how are you? Let them share a little bit, then you offer up what is going on in your life and that’s it! Pretty soon you are current with several people, and when life get’s too “lifey” you are already in the habit of calling, and you don’t have to spend a lot of time explaining the back story. You can get right into solution. The interesting thing that happens when you practice willingness calls, is you might catch a friend in the middle of being upset and you can offer support and be of service. Or they might start reaching out to you in a moment when you feel shut down or too sad to call. I’ve had such amazing experiences over the years of this practice, so I wanted to share this with you too.   So that’s it!  Please enjoy the episode with    Connect with Dr Higgins here: Visit Website: https://www.wiredforaddiction.com/   Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo  

Today my guest is Dr Laura Petracek, a clinical psychologist and author of “The DBT Workbook for Alcohol and Drug Addiction: Skills and Strategies for Emotional Regulation, Recovery and Relapse Prevention”. Can I just tell you… I LOVE A WORKBOOK! This one in particular is good for people like us because there are questions and writing prompts that support behavior change.   But before we jump in, it’s resource time! Today I just want to talk about one of the most misunderstood tools, meditation. Whenever I suggest meditation to clients or friends, I’m inevitably met with resistance. The two comments I hear the most are: either “I just can’t meditate”, or “Yeah I should probably do that”, but it never happens.    So let's clarify the biggest misconception: Meditation is not about not thinking. If you think you’re failing at meditation because you can’t keep thoughts out, that idea is a misunderstanding. In meditation, there is no goal per se other than to be fully present in the moment. As you notice your brain is thinking, you just bring your awareness back to the breath. If you notice you are thinking 1,000 times, then you simply notice without judgment and bring it back. It’s like casting a line out when you’re fishing. You focus on the breath, notice when you’re lost in thought, and reel it back in. Meditation is a practice, and like any practice, we suck at it in the beginning, then we keep practicing and get better and better.    In regards to why people consider it but don’t do it, I propose it;s because it’s not a priority. I wonder if it’s not a priority because the value of meditation just hasn’t been made clear enough. But instead of talking about why its so good for you, which a lot of people do, I’m going to highlight the COST of NOT doing it. If we can agree that the quality of your life depends on the thoughts you think and the actions you take, then we have to acknowledge a simple truth which is that it all centers in your brain. And just like you wouldn’t run a marathon without training first, why would you think you could tackle something like getting sober, or make any major change in your life without conditioning your mind first? It’s where all your decisions are made! Meditation is the process of conditioning your mind and your nervous system to help you achieve your goals so that you can ultimately achieve what we all want. Things like better relationships, health, peace, satisfaction, contentment and connection. If you DON’T practice meditation, it could literally cost you the very things you are actively trying so hard to achieve.    I hope this helps you to decide to make meditation a priority. There are endless youtube videos and apps available at your fingertips. So do it today, and let me know what meditations you like and I’ll share them on the Facebook page!   So that’s it!  Please enjoy the episode with Dr Laura Petracek   Connect with Dr Petracek here: Visit Website:  Follow on Instagram   Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo  

Today my guest is Dr Luke Sniewski, author of Somawise: Get out of your head and into your body. I’m really grateful he reached out to share his story because if there is still a taboo subject in recovery, it’s porn addiction, and we need to talk about it.   You’re going to hear his story, the underlying trauma that is at the root of his addiction and the healing practices that helped him to transform his life. In fact he was so deeply transformed that he has dedicated his life to helping others. He shares a lot of wisdom along with a lot of practical advice that you can apply to your life right away.    And speaking of transformation, I wanted to let you know that we do have a women’s Big Book study on Saturday Mornings, 8am pacific, 11am eastern. This is the book that is mentioned as being the most helpful in early sobriety, more than any other book from the 257 guests I’ve spoken with. We’re at the very beginning of the book so it's a perfect time to join. If you would like to check it out, just join the One Day At A Time - Private Women's Group on Facebook for the zoom link.    So that’s it!  Please enjoy the episode with Dr Luke Sniewski.   Connect with Dr Luke Sniewski here: Visit Website: https://www.lukesniewski.com/ Follow on Instagram @dr.luke.sniewski   Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo  

Today my guest is Ann Dowsette Johnson, Bestselling Author of “Drink” which was on the Top 10 Best Books by Washington Post. She is an award-winning journalist and bestselling author, turned psychotherapist. Her very popular TedTalk is listed among the top 7 talks about sobriety and addiction.   We spent a little time on her workshop “Writing Your Recovery” - a 8 week class which one of her students describes as and I quote: “hands-down a transformative life affirming experience”.   The next one is starting on April 12, so if you’re interested in joining, just visit her website at anndowsettejohnson.com to register.   Before we jump in, I just want to say, it’s time I listen to you for a change! I would like to invite you to reach out to me with suggestions on topics you’d like to hear about, specific guests or anything else that’s on your mind. You know I like to talk, but the truth is I’m a really good listener too. So you can message me on IG @arlinaallen or @odaatpodcast or leave a comment on the podcast facebook page, appropriately named The One Day At A Time Podcast. I want to make content that YOU want to hear.   If you are finding these conversations helpful, it would help me greatly if you subscribe, share with a friend or leave a review on Apple Podcasts. I am truly grateful for each and every one of you, so thank you for walking this crazy journey with me!   So that’s all I have for today!  Please enjoy the episode with Ann.   Connect with here: Visit Website: https://www.anndowsettjohnston.com/ Follow on Instagram @   Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo  

Today my guest is Allen Berger, Licensed Clinical Therapist, and Podcast co-host of “Start Here: Conversations about what matters most”. He’s also published several books including:   “12 Stupid Things That Mess Up Recovery: Avoiding Relapse through Self Awareness and Right Action” and “12 Essential Insights for emotional sobriety: Getting Your Recovery Unstuck”   Dr Berger was able to break down ideas around the paradox of accepting powerlessness in order to transcend it, overcoming resistance to doing recovery work and so much more.   There were so many lightbulb moments in this episode, I can’t wait for you to hear it!   Before we jump in, I wanted to share with you that there’s a free resource guide available at SoberLifeSchool.com It’s called “100 Resources for your first 100 Days”. It’s a list of the books that have completely expanded my mindset, healed deep emotional pain, and provided context and perspective that have brought me so much self awareness and peace of mind. I also included a list of about 35 recovery podcasts, and facebook sober groups. I think it’s critical that those of us that are on this path of healing that we educate ourselves and connect with others. There are so many facets to recovery that it’s important to hear stories from others that are just like us and hear how they have overcome typical challenges. So grab your copy today at soberlifeschool.com and let me know which resources resonate with you the most!   So that’s all from me!  Please enjoy the episode with Dr Allen Berger.   Be sure to follow me on Instagram for daily inspiration: @odaatpodcast and @arlinaallen   Connect with here: Visit Website: https://abphd.com/ Follow on Instagram @   Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo  

Today my guest is Author and Writing Teacher Maureen O’Brien. We’re talking about her recovery journey, the spiritual awakening in a Burger King parking lot, growing up in a dysfunctional home, but mostly her new book, “Gather the Fragments: My Year of Finding God’s Love”. Maureen is such a sweet and generous soul with a talent for helping people to write their own stories. In fact, she’s been a tremendous help to me personally, to rise out of the slog of my second book draft so I’m deeply grateful for her.   Before we jump in, just a reminder that if you are a woman in recovery with a desire to do the deep work of becoming free of long standing negative behavior patterns, I offer private coaching sessions. I use a unique combination of coaching strategies to help you identify and achieve goals, and hypnosis to release those stubborn self sabotaging blocks. If you are sick of the same old character defects and you are really ready for change, this is your sign to take action. Book a call with me today by visiting SoberLifeSchool.com   So that’s it!  Please enjoy the episode with the lovely Maureen.   Connect with Maureen here: Follow on Instagram @ https://www.instagram.com/maureen_obrien_writer/    Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg   Buy the book here: https://amzn.to/3TfnqBP  Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo  

Today my guest is Amber Hollingsworth. She is the owner, founder, and counselor at Hope for Families. Amber grew up in a family plagued with addiction so she has first hand experience of what it’s like to live in a dysfunctional home. She is also a content creator and has a very educational youtube channel called Put the shovel down, so I highly recommend you check that out too. I learned so much from speaking with Amber and I hope you will too.    Before we jump in, I just want to thank you all for the amazing feedback on the last episode with Dr. David Spiegel. Lots of you have told me you’ve already downloaded the Reveri app and have started learning self-hypnosis! For those of you who would like me to support you with one on one, online support, I offer a series of hypnosis sessions to help resolve long standing behavior patterns.      procrastination, self-sabotage, low confidence and of course, cravings. I call it the Breakthrough process, and if you would like to learn more, just visit soberlifeschool.com and book a strategy call with me today. We can do the Spiegel Eye Roll test to determine how hypnotisable you are!   And as always, if you need some free sobriety resources get the 100 Resources for Your First 100 Days” available for download at soberlifeschool.com    So that’s it!  Please enjoy the episode with Amber.   Connect with Amber here: Visit Website: https://www.familyrecoveryacademy.online/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@PutTheShovelDown Follow on Instagram @addictionrecoveryhope Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo  

Today my guest is the esteemed Dr. David Spiegel. I’m going to read you his bio from the Standford University of Medicine website, but as a side note, this is NOT the David Spiegel from the Amber Heard trial.   Dr Spiegel is a Willson Professor and Associate Chair of Psychiatry & Behavioral Sciences, Director of the Center on Stress and Health, and Medical Director of the Center for Integrative Medicine at Stanford University School of Medicine. Dr. Spiegel has more than 40 years of clinical and research experience studying psycho-oncology, stress and health, pain control, psychoneuroendocrinology, sleep, hypnosis, and conducting randomized clinical trials involving psychotherapy for cancer patients. He has published thirteen books, 480 scientific journal articles, and 170 book chapters on hypnosis, psychosocial oncology, stress physiology, trauma, and psychotherapy. He was a member of the work groups on stressor and trauma-related disorders for the DSM-IV and DSM-5 editions of the American Psychiatric Association’s Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.    In my estimation, Dr Spiegel is largely responsible for legitimizing modern hypnosis and making it widely accessible through the Reveri app. He was recently on The Huberman Lab podcast where they went deep into the neuroscience and brain mechanics of hypnosis, so I highly recommend you check that out too, but today, I directed him to speak primarily on the use of hypnosis to treat addiction, trauma, and chronic pain management for those who don’t want to become dependent on drugs.   The topics we cover include: What is hypnosis Guided Meditation vs Hypnosis Hypnosis for healing shame based self identity Why Guilt is often the response to sexual abuse and trauma How to use hypnosis to break self-sabotaging behaviors We talk about Reveri - Low cost app for learning self-hypnosis   ….and much more.   It was such an honor to have him on, I learned so much from him and I know you will too!   So without further delay, please enjoy this episode, with Dr. David Spiegel   Connect with Dr David Spiegel! Visit Website: https://www.reveri.com/   Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg   Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo  

Today my guest is Cole Chance. She is a woman in long term recovery, a yoga instructor and the creator of EMERGE Recovery, a live, online journey to recovery steeped in love, acceptance and empowerment. We talk about how she recovered from addiction and the tools that continue to support her on her path to wholeness.   Before we jump in, I have a couple of tips for you.  I’ve been meaning to talk about one of the most powerful relapse prevention tools that I have used for over 28 years, and I call it “willingness calls” A willingness call is an act of willingness to invest in your sobriety. It’s about cultivating a support system where you can give and receive support. The basic idea is that you have a list of people you call for a quick check in. I recommend one call per day, but you can do more if you’d like. The reason we do this is simply that addiction is a disease of isolation and connection is the cure.   Another reason is that to prevent relapse we need to condition ourselves to reach out before we’re in crisis. We make these calls when we feel good, because it is so hard to call when we feel bad if we’re not already in the habit of it.   It reminds me of this quote “We don't rise to the level our expectations, we fall to the level of our training” Archilichocus   So to give you an idea of the format of the call, I typically call someone and say hey, I only have a few minutes but I just wanted to check in with you. Ask: What’s going on with you, then share a little bit about what’s going on in your life and that’s it! Pretty soon you will be current with several people and when life gets life-y, you are already in the habit of calling, and you can get right into the solution, without having to spend a lot of time giving someone the whole back story.    And lastly, it’s a great way to build self-esteem but you will have the opportunity to be supportive to others.   So that’s it, I encourage you to put this into practice today and let me know how it goes!   And without further delay, please enjoy the episode with Cole.   Connect with Cole! Visit Website: https://emergerecovery.com/ Follow on Instagram:  https://www.instagram.com/colechanceyoga/ Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg     Lightning Round Answers:  Book recommendation: Drinking, A Love Story Self Care Practice: wake up, no phone, water, meditate, coffee, movement throughout the day.   Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo  

Today my guest is Richie Stephens, actor and author of The Gangster’s Guide to Sobriety. I heard him on the Rich Roll podcast and I was immediately hooked by his Irish accent and his ability to tell a good story. And let me tell you, he’s got a ton of them! I could literally listen to him all day.   Before we jump in, I wanted to say a huge Thank You to you and all my previous guests for helping the show reach the top 1% of self-help podcasts! All the shares, likes and especially the reviews help with ratings, so thank you, you all are amazing! If you haven’t yet had a chance to rate and review the podcast, it only takes a minute and your efforts have a global impact.    And as always, I have a really good free resource for you - I created a guide called “100 Resources for your first 100 days” available to you by visiting SoberLifeSchool.com   It’s a resource list of the best podcasts, recovery books, and online support groups. I’m telling you, even if you are short on cash, there is no shortage of support available to you. So get your free copy and I hope you love it!   And with that, please enjoy the episode, with    Connect with Richie!   Follow on Instagram @richieactor   Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg     Lightning Round Answers:  Book recommendation:  Self Care Practice:    Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo  

Today my guest is Andrea Ashley, the host of a VERY popular podcast called Adult Child. After getting sober in 2008, she found ACA which is “Adult child of alcoholics / Dysfunctional families” and it changed the course of her recovery. She launched her podcast to help others just like her, heal from childhood trauma to lead healthy fulfilling lives. She has a private where she facilitates ACA meetings, so check that out. She’s so much fun to talk to and I can’t wait for you to meet her!    Before we jump in, I want to talk about what happens to those of us who grow up in a dysfunctional home. We are forced to learn survival skills like people pleasing, validation and love through performance, and denying or suppressing our feelings.    Those survival patterns show up in adulthood as addiction, workaholism, codependency, unhealthy relationships and extreme independence. We have trouble trusting others and feel the need to do everything ourselves and often isolate ourselves when we’re in emotional pain.   The good news is that this is a cycle that can be broken.   If you are at the point where you feel like you need something more and you’re ready to do the deep work, I am available to support you through that process. I offer customized 1:1 support to help you break those patterns. If you want to talk with me to see if coaching is right for you, then set up a strategy call with me by visiting sober life school.com and at the top of the page you’ll find a link to “Private Coaching”. Change is possible and it would be my honor to work with you.   So without further delay please enjoy the episode with Andrea!     Connect with Andrea! Visit Website:  Follow on Instagram  Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg     Lightning Round Answers:  Book recommendation:  Self Care Practice:    Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo  

Today my guest is Renee Leonard Kennedy, the author of “After the Flowers Die: Encouragement for Walking Through Life After Loss.” I have to say, it was really interesting how we connected. Her publicist emailed me to pitch her as a guest, and I read it at a moment when I was really struggling with grief from the loss of my Mom. It was so serendipitous; it really felt like a spiritual experience, kinda like a little wink from God, if you will. I’m always in awe when stuff like that happens, you know? The exact message I needed right when I needed it.   Renee is a lovely woman in long-term recovery who shares what she has learned about processing grief in order to help others, so I love her for that. She also was very candid about leaving AA, finding Celebrate Recovery, and lots more.   Before we jump in, I have another quick book recommendation (besides Renee’s, of course), which is Atomic Habits by James Clear. It’s not your typical recovery book per se, but the parallels in this book are undeniable. It’s a very practical way to set up your environment to support the habits that lead to self-care and positive outcomes. He talks about how to implement the tiny actions that have a huge impact. I got the audio version first and loved it so much that I also bought the book. If you don’t have audible yet, you can actually get this book for FREE if you sign up for a trial membership on odaatchat.com. I’m an affiliate for audible, so if you sign up, I get a small commission that should allow me to retire by the time I’m 107.   So that’s it from me! Please enjoy the episode with Renee!   Connect with Renee! Email: reneeleonardkennedy@gmail.com Website: reneeleonardkennedy.com Instagram: renee.l.k Twitter: @ReneeLeonardKe1 Facebook: reneeleonardkennedy   Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg   Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo

Today my guest is Hilary Phelps. If her last name sounds familiar it’s because she’s the sister of Olympic Gold Medalist Michael Phelps!    After 15 years of continuous sobriety, Hilary has decided to tell her story. We had a wide ranging conversation about what it was like to be the sibling of such a public figure, her own achievements, which are very substantial I might add, like being the number 1 ranked swimmer in her age group in the nation, a triathlete, and being a mother to an amazing little boy. We talk about her journey through alcohol abuse, what happened that lead her to sobriety and what life is like now after a painful divorce.   Hilary is so relatable, authentic and genuinely a beautiful person. I love her and I know you will too.    Before we jump in, I wanted to tell you 3 things.   First thing is I have officially opened a soap shop called “Happy Soul Soap and Candle Co” where I have a whole collection of Sobriety themed soaps with sayings like “One Day at a time” surprise surprise, let go let god, Higher Power, Faith Over Fear and lots of others. They are all natural except for a few that are brightly colored, but they smell amazing and they’re really beautiful, if I do say so myself. Making soap has been such great grief therapy and I dedicated the shop to my Mom since she always encouraged my artsy side. Check it out at happysoulsoapandcandle.com    And speaking of Cliches, the second thing is I’m doing a fun little series about AA Cliches on TikTok @arlinaallen,  and the podcast Facebook page. It’s where I share a cliche and either tell a story or offer what it means to me. And if you follow it, I hope you share what they mean to you too!   And the last thing is about reviews. Did you know reviews are the number one way to support the podcast? The more reviews we get, the higher the ranking, and the more we will reach the people who need to hear solutions the most. There are many other podcasts that are kicking my ass in the rankings. I know this isn’t a competition, but I’m a scorpio and it’s in my nature to want to do better. so with your help we can change that! If you have a moment to rate and review the podcast on Apple right now, I would greatly appreciate it!   Without further delay, please enjoy the episode with Hilary!   Connect with Hilary here: Visit Website: https://www.hilaryphelps.com/ Follow on Instagram @hilaryphelps_ Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg     Lightning Round Answers:  Book recommendation:  Self Care Practice:    Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo

Today my guest is Steven Washington, author of Recovering You: Soul Care and Mindful Movement for Overcoming Addiction. If you have ever met someone who is so grounded, so authentic, and warm, then you will understand how I felt speaking with Steven. What a sparkling gift he is! See, this is why I love having a podcast. I get to meet amazing people and introduce you to them, and we are all better for it. We talk about his story of childhood challenges that shaped his life, alcoholism while performing at the highest levels, and the moment of clarity that altered the trajectory of his life.   Before we jump in, I wanted to share an interesting topic that came up in the 12 Step workshop I’m facilitating. The question was, how do I know if I’m doing God’s will or if I’m in self-will? Such an important question and one I think a lot of us visit from time to time. I did a short video about it on Tiktok but thought it was worth mentioning here too.   We do need to take action, and we do so based on goals and responsibilities. I think for me what can be confusing is when I experience some sort of pain and frustration.  This is what can be confusing for me. If pain and frustration are involved, does that mean I am not in God’s will? Am I trying to force something that isn’t meant to be? Or is it part of the natural process?   While there are no clear-cut answers, I have found a barometer that has helped a lot, and it’s this question: Do my actions or decisions ultimately bring me peace?    For example, I had been struggling with a friendship that no longer felt right for a variety of reasons. After much reflection and discussion with trusted advisors, I decided to let that friend go. Was it painful? Yes. Did the decision ultimately bring me peace? Absolutely. While I don’t wish anyone harm, I acknowledge that changes in both parties resulted in the loss of commonality, and that’s okay. Nobody has to be made wrong. It has been a blessing to release with love and make room for new opportunities. So that’s how I decide if I’m in God’s will or not, and if we take a step back, I’ll say that the word “God” can be whatever makes sense to you, and it’s a valuable exercise to revisit that concept as well. I hope that helps! And I would love to hear your thoughts on Tiktok, Facebook, or Instagram.   So without further ado, please enjoy the episode with Steven!   Connect with Steven! Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/stevenwashingtonexperience/ Instagram -  https://www.instagram.com/STEVENWASHINGTONEXPERIENCE/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCELKG49gXvN7E-GY271iSHQ Website: www.stevenwashingtonexperience.com    Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg   Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo

Today my guest is Lily Shanks. She is a former attorney turned certified yoga instructor and life coach. She is no stranger to perfectionism, workaholism, alcoholism, and burnout. Having learned how to overcome so many challenges, she now works with other women to do the same through a variety of practices. She is absolutely lovely, and I can’t wait for you to meet her!   Before we jump in, I have a favor to ask. The podcast is officially years old now, and I have spoken with over 250 guests, with some distinguished and exciting guests coming up. It takes a lot of work and expense to keep the show going; at the moment, I have 2 donors supporting the show. If the podcast has helped you and you feel so inclined to support the show through a donation, you can do so by visiting odaatchat.com, and there will be a link to donate. If you would like to support the show in other ways, reviews are hugely helpful, as is sharing it with friends. The show is a passion, and I’m so grateful for all the love and support. Thank you for an amazing 7 years, and I look forward to many more!   And with that, please enjoy the episode with Lily!   Connect with Lily! Visit Website: https://www.myinternalweather.com/lilyshanks Follow on Instagram my_internal_weather Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg     Lightning Round Answers:  Book recommendation: Blackout, by Sarah Hepola, The Grapevine Self Care Practice: yoga, pray meditate   Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo

Today my guest is Ted Perkins, who will be talking about his recovery journey through SMART Recovery and his new book “Addicted in Film: Movies We Love About The Habits We Hate.” It’s a brilliant concept, and it makes so much sense when you consider how we all learn and relate through stories.   Ted is a former Universal Pictures and Warner Bros. Studio executive, university lecturer, public speaker, Hollywood producer, virtual reality entrepreneur, and successful working film and TV series screenwriter. He volunteers his time as an addiction and recovery YouTube personality and sobriety mentor. He has helped thousands of people on their recovery journey through his blogs, videos, and weekly SMART Recovery meetings.    Before we jump in, I wanted to announce another resource for you which is a book review series I’ll be publishing on TikTok @arlinaallen and Instagram, which is also @arlinaallen . Every single episode we do on the podcast mentions at least 2 or 3 books. I’m obsessed with books for a few reasons, not the least of which is the transformational ideas conveyed by experts who have typically spent thousands of hours researching, contemplating, distilling all the information, and writing about it in ways that can literally change your life in deeply profound ways. It’s incredible to think you can gain all their information for the price of a book, which is typically less than $20. One of the things I always find myself putting on my gratitude list is all my teachers.    Connect with Ted! Visit Website: https://www.addictedinfilm.com/   Watch on YouTube:  ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg https://www.youtube.com/@SmartRecoveryUSA     Lightning Round Answers:  Book recommendation:  Favorite Quote:  Self Care Practice: What I wish I knew:  Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo

Today my guest is Peg O’Connor, author of “Higher and Friendly Powers-Transforming Addiction and Suffering”. She has been sober for 34 years, holds Ph.D in philosophy, she is a professor at Gustavus Adolphus College, and a contributor to Psychology Today.    We dig into the premise of her book around where the term Higher Power comes from and what it really means. Her intention is the same as mine, which is to alleviate unnecessary suffering by helping people overcome ideas that may be holding them back from solutions such as the 12 Step program.   That’s actually a good segway to announce that I’m hosting a free 12 Step Workshop for Women starting January 3rd and all you have to do is join the One day at a time private women’s group on Facebook!   There will be a lot of challenges for Dry January - some that are quite expensive, but if you have financial constraints that put these out of reach, I got you covered. Everything is free, even the literature! I am a huge 12 step advocate because it has helped me to stay sober for over 28 years. If you’re worried about the God thing, I have a way around that. If you are worried about being an “alcoholic”, don’t worry about that either! Whatever has prevented you from going through the process, I will share context and perspectives that will help you get past the barriers so that you can access a truly magical transformation.   So if you have been thinking about it, take this as a sign! Fortune favors the bold so let’s goooo…. Be sure to invite your friends too. The more the merrier.   Without further ado, please enjoy this episode with Peg!   Get the book! Get the book here: https://amzn.to/3G6Edku Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg     Lightning Round Answers:  Book recommendation: Mary Carr, “Lit” Favorite Quote: Use “Misery Threshold” instead of Rock Bottom Self Care Practice: Exercise, Walking Meditation, 12 Step Meetings   Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo

Today my guest is Mike Gibson, a former NFL player currently working at Healthy Life Recovery in San Diego, CA. He shares his story of becoming physically addicted to opioids after a significant injury playing football. We talk about how being a professional athlete made it difficult to relate to others, his resentment toward God, and the spiritual experience that lead him to recovery.    Before we jump in, I wanted to announce that I will be offering a free 12-step workshop for women through my private group. I haven’t taken anyone through the steps since I started coaching full-time, and honestly, I really miss it. It’s completely free; you don’t have to buy any books or attend any meetings if you don’t want to.    It begins early January, and all you have to do is join the Facebook group! Just do a search for “One Day At A Time - Private Women's Group” and I will announce all the details next week!!   So without further delay, please enjoy this episode, with Mike!   Connect with Mike! Visit Website: https://healthyliferecovery.com/ Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg     Lightning Round Answers:  Book recommendation: The Four Agreements Self Care Practice: 1-2 meetings per week, community support through church and sober softball league.   Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo

Today my guest is Dr. Lida Fatema. Her mission is to provide psilocybin-assisted coaching for female physician moms to move through past trauma, depression, anxiety, and burnout.   I’m personally fascinated by the research on the use of psychedelics to treat alcoholism and other underlying causes of addiction, such as trauma, depression, and anxiety. It’s not a panacea for everything, and those of us with addiction issues need to proceed with caution; however, the clinical trials at Johns Hopkins and NYU look promising.    I invited Dr. Lida to the podcast to share the pros and cons, protocols, and her personal experiences both as someone who struggled with mental health and as a facilitator. My intention is not to encourage use or to dissuade you but to provide you with information so you can come to your own conclusions.   As a disclaimer, I am not a doctor, and I don’t play one on the internet. None of this content should be construed as medical advice or be construed as a recommendation to use any of the substances mentioned in this episode. There are physical, psychological, and sometimes legal risks with such usage. Please consult your doctor before considering anything we discuss in this conversation.    As always, if you find this information useful, please share with your friends and leave a review on Apple Podcast. Without further delay, please enjoy this episode with Dr. Lida Fatima.   Connect with Dr. Lida Fatema! Visit Website: https://www.consciousphysician.org/   Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo

Today my guest is Jake Yoder, and we are discussing the fairly controversial topic of marijuana and recovery. Jake shares his experience with it, why he decided to stop and how he did it. We also talk about a spiritual experience he had, harm reduction, and how to have a natural high.   This topic is a particularly complex one. In 12-step programs, there is a heavy focus on counting “sober time” and a lot of talk about complete abstinence over everything. What sober means and what “everything” includes is debatable. However, I do want to point out that the book “Alcoholics Anonymous” is specifically focused on alcohol. There is another program called Marijuana Anonymous that is focused on marijuana. At the end of the day, you need to decide what’s right for you.   For the record, I am clear that I do not know what’s right for anyone else. I do believe in harm reduction, which is what I practiced when I stopped drinking, but I also know that using marajuana can be a slippery slope for people with addiction and dependency issues. There are medicinal benefits however for a certain group of people, it becomes another substance that is used to manage emotions in an unhealthy way. For me personally it was another way to numb out and it was stunting my healing because I have learned that I have to feel it to heal it.   There was a lot to say about this topic and I feel like we left out a few very key components to this discussion, but that leaves room for you to make your voice heard! If you have any thoughts to share on this topic, please leave a comment on the Facebook page, shoot me a DM on IG @arlinaallen or @odaatpodcast and I’ll address them in a following episode.    As always, I would like to thank you for supporting the podcast with reviews on Apple, donations made through odaatchat.com to cover production costs and by sharing the episodes with your friends. Unity is a foundation principle to community and together we help alleviate the suffering of others. So with that, please enjoy this episode, with Jake!   Connect with Jake! Visit Website: https://www.naturalhighsrecovery.org/ Follow on Instagram @naturalhighsrecovery Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/naturalhighscommunity/ Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg     Lightning Round Answers:  Book recommendation:  Favorite Quote:  Self Care Practice: What I wish I knew:  Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo

Today my guest is Dr Kim Dennis. She is a board-certified psychiatrist who specializes in treating addiction including substance, process, and food disorders. She has helped thousands of people to stay alive and recover for over 20 years. Her knowledge of eating disorders and addiction isn’t just limited to her academic and clinical experience, she has had her own experience as a person who has recovered from an eating disorder, addiction and trauma.    She believes in and maintains a holistic perspective in the practice of psychiatry, incorporating biological, psycho-social, and spiritual approaches into the individually tailored treatment programs for each patient at SunCloud Health.   Before we jump into today’s episode, I wanted to share a couple of resources to help you along your recovery journey.   First, there is a free private women’s facebook group you can join if you’d like some additional support. I am regularly sharing books I love, guided meditations, daily inspiration cards and other resources. And next month I’ll actually be announcing a new step work class! It’s free, it’s private and you can work the 12 steps without having to attend meetings. We did this a couple of years ago and it was a big success with over 200 women participating. This time around you won’t even have to buy the books if you don’t want to because you can access it all online for free. To join the group just search “One Day At A Time - Private Women’s Group” Or visit odaatchat.com and look for the link in the show notes. https://www.facebook.com/groups/1244862275613746 So that’s it for announcements! Please enjoy this episode with Dr. Kim! Connect with Dr. Kim Here: Visit Website:  Follow on Instagram  Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg   Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo

My guest is Mandy Manners, the fabulous Co-Author of Love Your Sober Year: A Seasonal Guide to Alcohol-Free Living.   Mandy co-wrote the book with her long-time friend Kate Baily who has been a guest as well. She is absolutely lovely, and I’ll leave a link to her episode in the show notes.   Today we focused on their new book, which I absolutely LOVE. Not only is it aesthetically beautiful, but the concept is brilliant as it follows the natural rhythms of the seasons. There is a ton of information to absorb on the path to recovery, and this book offers a practical way to take it all in without becoming overwhelmed.   Connect with Mandy and Kate! Visit Website:  Follow on Instagram  Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg   Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo  

Today my guest is Joseph Kajy, host of the “Let’s Get Real Podcast” and my new friend in recovery! I got so much out of this conversation with Joseph because I really felt his true desire to help others. He has done a lot of personal recovery work, and he has such clarity and purpose I personally felt inspired after speaking with him.    So without further ado, please enjoy this conversation with Joseph.   Connect with Joseph! Links: linktr.ee/Josephkajy   Follow on Instagram @josephjajy Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg   Lightning Round Answers:  Book recommendation: Alcoholics Anonymous, Winning with People, by John C Maxwell Favorite Quote: When you hide your story, you hide God’s glory Self Care Practice: Men’s Book Study, Daily readings, prayer, end the day with 10th step. What I wish I knew:  Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo

Today my guest is Joi Andreoli, author of The Recovery Cycle and licensed marriage family therapist. She shares her stories of an early chaotic home life, feeling disconnected from herself and how black out drinking & heroin lead her to rehab. We also spend some time on why we sometimes practice “case building” and blame with the ones we love most, and tools to develop a healthy loving relationship. We also discuss different modalities of healing trauma, personal experiences, and so much more…   Before we jump in, I want to share that I still have a couple spots available for the Women’s Self-Esteem workshop starting 11/8 at 5pm Pacific / 8:00 pm Eastern. This class is for you if you’re feeling stuck, burned out and just need a little boost to start doing self care that will make you feel better. I know it can be hard to make yourself a priority, and as women we will often put other people’s needs ahead of our own. So I’m going to make this easy for you. If you register by Sunday Nov 6th, you can bring a friend for free! Just visit selfesteemcourse.com and I’ll look forward to seeing you all in class!   So without further ado, please enjoy this conversation with Joi!   Connect with Joi! Visit Website: https://www.communicatewithjoi.com Follow on Instagram @joiandreoli   Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg     Lightning Round Answers:  Book recommendations:  Alcoholics Anonymous, “Atlas Shrugged”, “The Writing of The Big Book” Favorite Quote: Easy does it, but do it Self Care Practice: 20 minutes quiet meditation, read, & journal. What I wish I knew: “Relax, it’s going to be okay” Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo

Today my guest is the founding drummer of Maroon 5, Ryan Dusick. Ryan is promoting his new recovery memoir “Harder To Breathe: A Memoir of Making Maroon 5, Losing It All, and Finding Recovery   We not only talk about life as a rockstar, but the descent of addiction, the root causes, his experience with 12 steps, discovering a new definition of spirituality and what life looks like for him today. It was such an honor to speak with him! So without further delay, please enjoy this episode with Ryan! Connect with Ryan! Follow on Instagram @ryan_michael_dusick   Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg     Lightning Round Answers:  Book recommendation: Full Catastrophe Living, Jon Kabit- Zinn Favorite Quote: Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity - Seneca Self Care Practice: Prioritize sleep, morning mindfulness and stretch practice Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo

Today my guest is Sharon Fekete, The Doctor Whisperer. She’s an author and podcast host of The Broken Road to Mental Health. Sharon was sooo much fun to talk to! She got sober the same year I did and we’re both obsessed with sharing resources that help ease unnecessary suffering. I just loved meeting her!    We cover a lot of ground on this episode including her story of addiction, depression and suicide attempts and the moment of clarity that lead to recovery. We also talk about the problems with our healthcare system and how challenging it can be to get the right support. We spent some time talking about the different types of therapy available to treat the underlying causes of addiction and our own personal experiences with them.   I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did! So without further ado, please enjoy this episode with Sharon.   Connect with Sharon! Linktree: https://linktr.ee/sharonfekete   Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg     Lightning Round Answers:  Book recommendation: Alcoholics Anonymous, The Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions, Codependent No More Self Care Practice: Mental Health Workout: stretch training, meditation, walking, 4 meetings per week & service work   Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo

This episode will be a little bit different than the usual format. Over the last 6 years of hosting the podcast I’ve had multiple guests talk about the use of psychedelic assisted therapy to treat their core issues that lead them to addiction. It seems like psychedelic assisted therapy is everywhere these days. The Today Show profiled a study done by NYU on how psilocybin was used to treat alcoholism. Netflix has a series called “How to change your mind” where many of the use cases profiled the use of psychedelics to treat mental health issues like depression, anxiety, PTSD, Trauma and Addiction. There is a lot to be learned but the evidence for transformational change is exciting.    My guest today is Joshua Tanner, a medical student at Stanford who has not only had one of these transformational experiences, but has plans to potentially open clinics in the pacific northwest to facilitate psychedelic assisted therapy.    As a disclaimer, I am not a doctor and I don’t play one on the internet. None of this content should be construed as medical advice or be construed as a recommendation to use any of the substances mentioned in this episode. There are physical, psychological, and sometimes legal risks with such usage. Please consult your doctor before considering anything we discuss in this conversation.    Connect with Joshua! Follow on Instagram @joshuavtanner Follow on TikTok @joshuavtanner   Watch the full interview on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo

Today my guest is a prolific Author, Teacher, and Peer Recovery Counselor, Patrick O’Neil. I had so much fun talking to Patrick! He is a kind and generous soul with so much wisdom to share. He clearly has done a ton of recovery work and has dedicated his life to helping others to heal.    Patrick shares his recovery story today, along with his moment of clarity and the multiple programs he participated in to get and stay sober since 2001. I just know you’re going to appreciate him as much as I do. So with that, please enjoy this episode with Patrick!   Connect with Patrick! Visit Website: https://patrick-oneil.com/ Follow on Instagram @patricksoneil   Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg Lightning Round Answers:  Book recommendation: Permanent Midnight, Jerry Stahl  Favorite Quote: Don’t be an asshole Self Care Practice: 20 minutes meditation, read “upon awakening” big book pages 86-87 What I wish I knew: Not to take myself so seriously, and it’s okay to make mistakes Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo

Hi Friend,   Thank you for downloading the podcast, my name is Arlina, and I’ll be your host.    Well, kind of. This week we’re doing something a little different. My friend and fellow podcaster Mary Tilson interviewed me on The Sun & Moon Sober Living Podcast and today we’re talking about how to rebuild self-esteem after you get sober.    One thing I have learned over the 28 years I have been sober is that rebuilding self-esteem in sobriety is critical to healing. So many of us struggle with the guilt and shame that goes hand in hand with addiction, and it’s easy to get lost in the shame spiral, especially in early recovery. So today we’re going to talk about what healthy self-esteem is, why it’s important and things you can do right away to start healing.   I also want to mention that if you are a woman in sobriety, and you would like more free resources for healing, book recommendations, meditations and a community of supportive women, then join us in our free private facebook group. Just do a search for: One day at a time private women’s group. I look forward to connecting with you personally!   So there you have it! I hope you enjoy this special episode!   Connect with Me! Visit Website: soberlifeschool.com Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg   Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo

Today my guest is my good friend Michael J. I met him years ago in my home group, and he always has great things to say. He teaches by example, he’s a student and scholar of the 12-step program and has a lot to share.    Michael is anonymous, so this week there’s no YouTube video or picture on the website. We’ll keep this one very mysterious. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did! Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo  

Today my guest is Hannah Sward, author of the brilliantly written book: “Strip: A Memoir”. I found Hannah to be such a sweet soul! We talked about her story, the depths her addiction took her to and her moment of clarity. So powerful! Hannah is someone who has dedicated her life to helping others and I just love her for it. And I know you’ll love her too! So with that, please enjoy this conversation with Hannah.   Connect with Hannah! Visit Website: https://www.hannahsward.com/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/hannahsward.22 Follow on Instagram @hannahdavisward   Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg     Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo

Today my guest is Joe Conniff, author of Causes and Conditions: A Life Experience in Addiction and Recovery. He does a TON of service work to help people recover in the Seattle, WA area. Joe shares his story of growing up around addicts, trauma in his teens, his own experience of DUIs, jails, and chronic relapse, as well as his experience of becoming free of addiction. We talked about something he called “The power differential” which speaks to the difference between peer support and professional support and how it affects people in early recovery.    Joe has an amazing story and we cover a lot of recovery resources as well. I really learned a lot from Joe in this conversation and spent the next couple of days thinking how grateful I am that there are people like him in the world. So with that, please enjoy this episode with Joe.   Connect with Joe! Visit: https://linktr.ee/joe.conniff Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/joseph.conniff.1 Follow on Instagram @mindful_of_recovery   Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo

Today my guest is Author, Podcast Host, and Clinical Social Worker specializing in trauma, Shelby John. She has been sober for over 20 years and has dedicated her life to helping others. We cover a ton of solutions in the episode, along with her personal story of recovery. So without any further delay, please enjoy this episode with Shelby!   Connect with Shelby! Visit Website: https://shelbyjohncoaching.com/ Facebook: www.Facebook.com/ShelbyJohnCoaching Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg   Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo

Today my guest is Tommy Rosen, author of “Recovery 2.0 - Move Beyond Addiction and Upgrade Your Life” and the extremely popular Recovery 2.0 community that has thousands of members all over the globe. Tommy has interviewed major recovery influencers like Gabor Mate, Marianne Williamson, Russel Brand, Richard Rohr just to name a few.    In this episode, Tommy gives a master class on recovery, the work of deep healing, and the power of mindfulness. He shares so many resources it’s tough to offer a recap that will do him justice, so how about we just jump right in? So with that, please enjoy this episode, with Tommy!    Connect with Tommy! Visit Website: r20.com Follow on Instagram @recovery2point0 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Recovery2point0/ Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg   Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo

Today my guest is Amy Liz Harrison, author, publisher, podcaster and mother of 8 in long term recovery. Yeah, that’s right. I said 8. I don’t want to hear any more excuses of why you can’t go to meetings. If she can do it, so can you!    In this episode, with one of my new besties, we talk about how she was raised in a Christian home in the purity culture, when she crossed the line with her drinking and how she was able to break through the denial that nearly cost her her marriage. She offers a lot of great resources and I encourage you to read her books and check out her podcast, “Eternally Amy”.    So with that please enjoy this wide ranging conversation with Amy. Connect with Amy! Visit Website: amylizharrison.com *Amy's books can be found on Amazon: https://amzn.to/3ys8nuv   *Her Podcast, Eternally Amy on Apple podcasts (or wherever you listen to podcasts: https://apple.co/3rSDMnp Follow on Instagram : @amylizharrison   Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg     Lightning Round Answers:  Book recommendation: Living Sober, Between Breaths Favorite Quote: To Thine Own Self Be True Self Care Practice: Prayer, recovery groups, service What I wish I knew: It’s all going to get better   Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo

Today my guest is recording artist David Correy. He opens up about the rise of his music career, the struggles he had from losing his parents, and the depths that grief led him to. He shares never before stories of the darkness and the hope that came from his journey of recovery from alcoholism. So without further ado, please enjoy this episode with David   Connect with David! Visit Website: https://urbanrockrecords.com/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/DavidCorreyURR Follow on Instagram @davidcorrey  Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg     Lightning Round Answers:  Book recommendation:  Favorite Quote:  Self Care Practice: What I wish I knew:  Just for fun: Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo

Today my guest is beautiful and talented Marci Hopkins. She is the TV host of Wake Up With Marci, and author of her new memoir “Chaos to Clarity: Seeing the Signs and Breaking the Cycles”.    We covered a lot of topics in this discussion from her abuse as a child, how it affected her sense of self and the world, and how it was the underlying cause of her alcoholism. We actually talked a lot about different teachers like Dr. Joe Dispenze and Abraham Hicks who explain the science and mysticism that is available to all of us to help us heal. She shares her rock bottom moment, and a really special spiritual experience. I can’t wait for you to meet her! You’re going to love her as much as I do!   So with that, please enjoy this episode with Marci   Connect with  Visit Website:  Follow on Instagram  Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg     Lightning Round Answers:  Book recommendation:  Favorite Quote:  Self Care Practice: What I wish I knew:  Just for fun: Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo

Today my guest is Jill Rathburn. She is a registered holistic health nurse, and board certified recovery coach. In this episode we cover a lot of ground, from her story of alcohol use disorder, her moment of clarity that helped her decide to go to rehab, and the 5 Stages of Healing - this is something that you can apply to your life right away! Jill had so many practical tools for recovery and overall health, we barely got it all in!    Connect with Jill! Website: https://jillrathburn.com/ Phone: 435-729-0996 Instagram: @jillrathburncoaching Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jill.rathburn.9   Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg     Lightning Round Answers:  Book recommendation: Recovery 2.0, Tommy Rosen and A Woman’s Way, By Dr. Stephanie Covington Life Motto: Full Speed Ahead! Self Care Practice: Big on daily routine: wake up early, drink water, sun within 45 minutes, exercise, yoga, meditation   Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo

Today my guest is none other than the super fabulous Sober Curator herself, Alysse Bryson. If you’ve been listening to the podcast for any length of time, you know I love just about everybody, but hot damn, I’ve found another Soul Sister!    Alysse not only shares her story of alcoholism (or Alcohol Use Disorder as the cool kids call it) she also talks about the underlying causes, her moment of clarity that changed her perspective forever and all the ways that she helps others to end their suffering. Alysse has a focus on people in long term recovery, because let’s be honest, this is an ongoing process, not a single event.   We also share some of the same concerns with “social media sobriety”, so we get into that as well. Whether you are new to the sober community or a long timer, I’d love to hear your thoughts on this as well.    Without further ado, please enjoy this episode with Alysse! Connect with Alysse! Visit Website: www.thesobercurator.com Follow on Instagram @thesobercurator and @alysseinthecity Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg     Lightning Round Answers:  Book recommendation: Girl Walks Out of A Bar, Lisa Smith Favorite Quote: “Be Still”  Self Care Practice: Prayer & Meditation, fun things like crafting, painting, VR Games, service   Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo

Today my guest is Flindt Andersen. He is the President and Founder of a Non-Profit called PAIN, Parents and Addicts In Need based out of Fresno, CA. Flindt shares his story of long term addiction to opiates, his moment of clarity experience and his 21 year journey through sobriety. We talked about where he believes his shame came from, how he learned to heal it, and the work he does to help parents and addicts heal and recover. Flindt’s honesty and desire to help others left me with a feeling of hope and encouragement that we can all use our pain to make a difference to those who need it most. So with that, please enjoy this episode with Flindt.   Connect with Flindt Andersen Here: Visit Website: gotpainusa.org Follow on Instagram @gotpainusa   Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg     Lightning Round Answers:  Book recommendation: No book, but music helped him. Artists like Steven Curtis Chapman and classical music helped him to stay hopeful and encouraged. Favorite Idea he lives by: I’ve already been to hell, what is anyone going to do to me now? Self Care Practice: Meditation, music, quiet mornings. Also golfing with friends 2x per week. Helps him not to worry and be present. Spiritual Experience: In a simple ordinary moment sitting at a traffic light he heard a small still voice from within saying “When are you going to listen to me?” and “people are in your life for a reason” Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo

Today my guest is the beautiful and generous soul that is Mary Tilson. I looooved this conversation with her so much that it's one of the longer ones I’ve published in 5 years of doing the podcast. Mary shares her story of alcoholism and how she recovered, and also the tools and science of behavior change. So with that, please enjoy this episode with Mary!   How to Connect with Mary Tilson Website: www.sunandmoonsoberliving.com Instagram: @sunandmoon.soberliving Podcast: Sun & Moon Sober Living Podcast Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg     Lightning Round Answers Book recommendations: Alcoholics Anonymous Wisdom of Yoga, by Stephen Cope   Favorite Quote: “Discipline is the path to freedom” Self Care Practice: Meditation & Yoga, Retreats What I wish I knew: The critical voice is not the bearer of truth Just for fun: Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo

Today my guest is Dr. Constance Scharff, Speaker and Author of two books, Ending Addiction for Good, By Richard Taite and Constance Scharff, PhDAnd her most recent: Rock to Recovery: Music as a Catalyst for Human Transformation There is a trigger warning on this episode for anyone who has experienced incest and sexual abuse. Dr. Scharff shares her story of surviving sexual abuse as a child, how she became addicted to alcohol and her amazing journey of recovery. We talk a lot about different solutions for trauma. She will share a story of how doing somatic trauma work called “Radical Aliveness”, she dropped 75lbs without changing anything!    If you have tried any of these somatic practices to heal trauma, I’d love to hear your experiences. Just message me on the One day at a time facebook page or on Instagram at odaatpodcast. So without further ado, please enjoy this episode with Dr. Constance Scharff. Connect with Dr. Constance Scharff Visit Website: https://www.constancescharff.com/   Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg     Lightning Round Answers:  Book recommendation: The Little Prince, Alcoholics Anonymous  Favorite Quote: “You can’t change what happened, but you can change the end.” What I wish I knew: Early recovery is hard and that’s normal. Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo

Today my guest is Author and Recovery Coach, Fawna Asfaw. She oversees a private and prestigious young women’s transitional sober living in Los Angeles, CA, and founded The Good Wrk, helping young women rebuild their lives on their own terms.   Fawna also just published her memoir “Sober Daughter, A Memoir of Grief, Addiction and Recovery”. We talk about what was the root cause of her addiction, how she processed the death of both her parents, and how she was able to escape and overcome alcoholism.     Before we jump in, please follow the podcast @odaatpodcast for daily inspiration and additional free resources including access to over 200 past episodes, book reviews, and general sobriety support.   So with that, please enjoy this episode, with Fawna!   Connect with Fawna! Visit Website: https://www.fawnaasfaw.com/thegoodwrk Follow on Instagram: @fawnaasfaw   Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg   Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo

My guest today is Veronica Valli, clinical psychotherapist, Co-Host of the VERY popular podcast called The Soberful Podcast along with Chip Somers, and author of “Soberful: Uncover a sustainable fulfilling life free of alcohol.”    This episode is PACKED with wisdom, insights, and practical guidance on healing from alcoholism and life. I loved this episode and I hope you do too. So with that, please enjoy this episode with Veronica!     Connect with Veronica! Visit Websites: https://soberful.com/ https://www.veronicavalli.com/   Follow on Instagram: @veronicajvalli   Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg     Lightning Round Answers:  Book recommendations: Alcoholics Anonymous Sermon on The Mound, Emmet Fox Conversations With God, Donald Walsch   Favorite Quote: This one is a prayer “Be still and know that I am God” Self Care Practice: Regular 10th step inventory, REBT - Rational Emotional Behavior Therapy   Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo  

Today my guest is China Darrington, the ​​Director Advocacy and Public Policy for Thrive, Peer Support Recovery. She shares her story of surviving human trafficking from a very young age, how she fell into addiction what happened and what she did to achieve 18 years of abstinence. We talked about her experience with the 12 Steps, therapy, and the other tools she uses to heal her trauma. She also shares her thoughts on Buddhist practices, how she lost 80lbs, and the work she does not to help other women heal from trauma.   Highlights: If you make it to 5 years, the relapse rate drops to 15% or less. The Self-Care Snacking Strategy How she lost 80lbs Healing Your Relationship to Food Connect with China! Visit Website: https://thrivepeersupport.com/ Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg     Lightning Round Answers:  Book recommendation: Get Up: A 12-step Guide to Recovery for Misfits, Freaks, and Weirdos Bucky Sinister Favorite Quote: “Never Give Up Hope” and “Can’t be critical and curious at the same time” Self Care Practice: Daily Meditation, Movement, “Self Care Snacking” What I wish I knew: “Being perfect isn’t required to recover”   Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo

Today my guest is Dr. Andrew Marry, aka Mazz, who is also the co-host of the Daily Dose Podcast.  Before we jump in, I would like to invite you to share your “God Shot” stories that could potentially be included in my book project coming out this year. Just to add a little bit of explanation to the term “God Shot”, it is a spiritual experience that you’ve had that can only be explained by God showing up in your life. Over the time I’ve been sober I’ve had many. For instance, the day after my Mother died last November, I woke up to the most brilliant sunrise I’ve ever seen. The sky was ablaze with bright orange, pink and glimmers of golden light. I felt it to my core that it was Mom telling me she made it to the other side. I felt it so deeply that I just stood there and cried my eyes out. I knew in my heart that she was okay. Fast forward several months and a woman I know said she had a message for me that she didn’t understand what it meant, but that my Mother said to look for her “in the clouds”. My jaw hit the desk. I’ve been grieving her loss but this message brought me comfort and peace, and a deep knowing that my higher power was at work, even though I don’t always understand it. If you have a story that you’d like to share, you can email it to me at arlina@odaatchat.com There is a deadline of 6/20 to be included in the book, but if I get more, I will publish them separately on my blog at odaatchat.com. Also, please be sure to follow the podcast on Instagram: odaatpodcast for updates and daily sobriety inspiration. In today’s episode, I talked with Dr. Marry who shares his story of alcoholism, how it nearly cost him his life and his marriage to the lovely Dayna, and how AA saved both. So with that, please enjoy this episode with Dr. Marry!   Connect with  Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg   Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo  

Today my guest is the talented, hilarious and beautiful human that is Roxan McDonald. It is impossible to capture all that she is in a bunch of job titles, but here goes. She’s the creative force behind the IG and TikTok account @Spiritual_AF with over 140K followers, and co-host of the “Spiritual AF or Whatever” podcast. She’s also a writing coach, meditation facilitator, educator and wears many many other hats.    Roxan shares her story of childhood abuse, trauma, addiction, her amazing transformation and how she’s been able to stay sober since 1990. She shares publicly for the first time why she left AA after 31 years.    What I really needed was 3 hours to ask all my questions, but we do cover a lot of ground in this episode. I hope you enjoy it as much as I did. So without further ado, please enjoy this episode with Roxan.   Connect with Roxan! Visit Website: https://www.spiritual-af.com/ Follow on Instagram/TicTok: @spiritual_af  Podcast: https://www.spiritual-af.com/spiritual-af-or-whatever-podcast Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg     Lightning Round Answers:  Book recommendation:  The Feminine Face of God: The Unfolding of the Sacred in Women by Patricia Hopkins and Sherry Ruth Anderson   Favorite Quote:  Self Care Practice: What I wish I knew:  Just for fun: Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo

Today my guest is Matt Jerr, the Co-Host of The Sober Friends Podcast. He’s been sober since 3/21/2014 and today he is going to share his story of alcoholism and recovery with us.    We talk about all kinds of things including book recommendations, alternate recovery paths, changing thinking around traditional programs, having fun in sobriety and how to handle heavy meetings so you can leave feeling uplifted.   Connect with Matt! Visit Website: https://soberfriendspod.com/ Follow on Instagram @soberfriendspod   Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg     Lightning Round Answers:  Book recommendation:  Favorite Quote:  Self Care Practice: What I wish I knew:  Just for fun: Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo

Today my guest is Beverly Sartain. She is the President of the Holistic Coach Training Institute and author of “Transcending Trauma - How I used Spiritual Psychology To Heal My Life”. Beverly holds a Master's Degree in Spiritual Psychology and is also a certified drug and alcohol counselor. She has done extensive work with those affected by domestic violence and addiction and helps them to heal from trauma. In this episode, we talk about the four levels of healing, Mental, Emotional, Spiritual and Physical. One of the benefits of being the host of a recovery podcast, is I occasionally get some free therapy, and Bev was kind enough to walk me through some personal challenges I face with the physical level, specifically around body issues. As a facilitator of hypnotherapy, and a lifelong student of the healing arts, I find it fascinating to practice all healing modalities. I encourage you to trust your gut and test them out for yourself as well. So with that, please enjoy this episode with Beverly.   Connect with Beverly  Website: https://holisticcoachtraininginstitute.com/ Coach Certification: https://holisticcoachtraininginstitute.com/holistic-coach-certification-program/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/holisticcoachtraininginstitute LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bevsartain/   Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF   https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify   https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ     Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo

Connect with John Clint Mabry! Visit Website: https://johnclintmabry.com/ Follow on Instagram @johnmabryspk Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg   Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On: https://apple.co/30g6ALF https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ   Watch Full Episodes! https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo  

Connect with John Clint Mabry! Visit Website: https://johnclintmabry.com/ Follow on Instagram @johnmabryspk Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg   Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On: https://apple.co/30g6ALF https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ   Watch Full Episodes! https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo  

Hi Friend, Thank you for downloading the podcast, my name is Arlina, and I’ll be your host. In case we haven’t met yet, I am a certified Recovery Coach and Hypnotist. I help people get sober, stay sober and go deeper through scientifically proven tools and spiritual practices. I have been practicing abstinence from drugs and alcohol since 4/23/94 and I’ve seen recovery grow and evolve over the years with a lot of different options. I encourage you to explore it all and find what works for you.  Today my guest is Dufflyn Lammers. She is a Relationship and Recovery Coach. She helps women through attachment repair, tantra, and coaching so that they can have healthier relationships without slipping back into old patterns. In this episode, we’re going to get into Breakups in Sobriety, Attachment Style Theory, and how to develop the “Earned Secure Attachment” style in order to foster healthy relationships. We will discuss what attachment theory is and what the main styles are so you can start getting an idea which attachment style you might have. Dufflyn shares SO MUCH valuable information, I can’t wait for you to hear it. And if you find this helpful, please leave a review on iTunes and share it with a friend! I appreciate you!   Connect with Dufflyn! Visit Websites:  https://www.dufflyn.com/ https://www.rockrelationshipsinrecovery.com   Follow on Instagram: @dufflyn   Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg   Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes! Be sure to follow me on Instagram for daily inspiration: @odaatpodcast and @arlinaallen

Hi Friend,   Thank you for downloading the podcast, my name is Arlina, and I’ll be your host.   In case we haven’t met yet, I am a certified Recovery Coach and Hypnotist. I help people get sober, stay sober and go deeper through scientifically proven tools and spiritual practices.   I have been practicing abstinence from drugs and alcohol since 4/23/94 and I’ve seen recovery grow and evolve over the years with a lot of different options. I encourage you to explore it all and find what works for you.    Today my guest is Jason Carter, author of “To Hell I Ride - When a Life Examined Became Worth Living”. He shares his recovery story from alcohol, and drops some insightful wisdom that has helped him stay sober for more than 6 years, all without a traditional recovery program.   Before we dive in, please visit soberlifeschool.com to sign up for the bi weekly newsletter. There are free resources for meditation, other recovery podcasts, and you know I love books, so lots of book recommendations too.   Also, if you have suggestions for topics you’d like to hear or guests you’d like to suggest, you can email me at arlina at odaatchat.com   And finally, please follow me on tiktok at arlinaallen - I would love to do some live content to talk about relapse prevention and rebuilding self esteem but I can’t until I have 1000 followers. I appreciate you all so much!   That’s it for the overview, so without further adu, please enjoy this episode with Jason.     More from Jason: Link to book: https://amzn.to/3qW0WIU Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg     Lightning Round Answers:  Book recommendation: The Power of Now, by Ekhart Tolle and The Far Side, by Gary Larson Favorite Quote: When a man realizes he has no limits, he has no limits Self Care Practice: intermittent fasting, exercise, church, writing What I wish I knew: Everything will be different   Be sure to follow me on Instagram for daily inspiration: @odaatpodcast and @arlinaallen Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!

Hi Friend,   Thank you for downloading the podcast, my name is Arlina, and I’ll be your host.   In case we haven’t met yet, I am a certified Recovery Coach and Hypnotist. I help people get sober, stay sober and go deeper through scientifically proven tools and spiritual practices.   I have been practicing abstinence from drugs and alcohol since 4/23/94 and I’ve seen recovery grow and evolve over the years with a lot of different options. I encourage you to explore it all and find what works for you.    Today my guest is Jean McCarthy, the podcast host of The Bubble Hour, with over 4 million downloads! She is also the author of the award winning blog “Unpickled”, and author of the Unpickled book series. Today we are talking about her latest book, Unpickled - Prepare to be alcohol free. Insights and tips to ease the transition.   Jean is so talented and has such a huge heart. The book is very thoughtful, super practical and I know it will help many many people on their alcohol-free journey.   Before we jump in, I want to ask you, do you struggle with stubborn issues like self-confidence, weight loss, smoking or chronic pain? If you do, then you might want to consider hypnosis. Hypnosis has been around since the 18th century, and institutions like Stanford University School of Medicine, and the  These issues are rooted in the subconscious mind and hypnosis is how you can reframe and rewire your brain, so that you can feel more confident, lose weight, quit smoking and manage pain without drugs. Not sure if you can be hypnotized? There is actually a eye test to determine how hypnotizable you are. If you’re curious, just visit soberlifeschool.com and book a free consultation to see if hypnosis is right for you.    So that’s it for the intro. Please enjoy this episode with Jean! Connect with Jean McCarthy Here! Visit Website: https://unpickledblog.com/ Follow on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jeanmccarthy_writes/ Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg   Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!  

Hi Friend,   Thank you for downloading the podcast, my name is Arlina, and I’ll be your host.   In case we haven’t met yet, I am a certified Recovery Coach and Hypnotist. I help people get sober, stay sober and go deeper through scientifically proven tools and spiritual practices.   I have been practicing abstinence from drugs and alcohol since 4/23/94 and I’ve seen recovery grow and evolve over the years with a lot of different options. I encourage you to explore it all and find what works for you.    Today I’d like to introduce you to the host of the popular podcast, Knockin Doors Down. Jason opens up about his childhood trauma, addiction and what his recovery is like now. He’s doing a lot of great work in normalizing recovery and helping others to recover too.   Hey listen, before we jump in, I need your help. I’m on a mission to share these inspiring stories with as many people as possible, and I need your help to get the word out. By leaving a 5 star review on iTunes, or Spotify, the podcast rises higher in the rankings and more people who need help will see it. There are over 200 episodes now with people who are trying to literally save the lives of people just like us. Please take a minute and leave a review. You never know who’s life YOU might save. And thank you from the bottom of my heart.   So without further adu, please enjoy this episode with our new friend Jason. Follow on Instagram @jasontlachance and @knockindoorzdown Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg     Lightning Round Answers:  Book recommendations:  Heroin Diaries - Nikki Sixx Way of the Peaceful Warrior - Dan Millman   Favorite Quote: “The God I do business for”

Hello Loves, Thank you for downloading the podcast, my name is Arlina, and I’ll be your host. In case we haven’t met yet, I am a certified Recovery Coach and Hypnotist. I help people get sober, stay sober and go deeper through scientifically proven tools and spiritual practices. I have been practicing abstinence from drugs and alcohol myself since 4/23/94 and I’ve seen recovery grow and evolve over the years with a lot of different options. I encourage you to explore it all and find what works for you.  Today’s guest is Tiffany North, my new soul sister! I really loved this conversation with her! She's an RN, Certified Intuitive Eating Professional, and creator of the Food Attachment Model ™, a genius combination of attachment style theory and intuitive eating. If you have food issues, and who doesn’t, you’re going to love this one! Tiffany helps people with disordered eating finally find freedom, balance, and satisfaction. She personally struggled with disordered eating and found a path to peace. It was so transformational that she dedicated her work to helping others do the same. Tiffany has also been alcohol and substance free since 1998 and after our conversation, it is clear that she walks the talk, which I personally have a lot of respect for.  Before we jump in, I have one small request that could make a huge difference in someone’s life, and that is to share this podcast with all of your friends in recovery. We don’t always know what’s going on with people and a lot of us isolate when we’re in pain. It’s a trauma response that comes from when we were little, suffering, and nobody met our needs for emotional security. And for those of us suffering from alcohol and drug issues, isolation is a hell like no other. So please, remember to reach out to your friends in recovery, and if you hear something that hits you in one of the podcast episodes, please share it. It’s an easy way to connect and you never know who you might be helping. So without further adu, please enjoy this episode with Tiffany. Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes! Connect with Tiffany North Visit Website: coachtiffanyrn.com Follow on Instagram: @coachtiffanyrn  Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg   Lightning Round Answers:  Book recommendation: Codependent No More, Melody Beadie Favorite Mantra: Do your self forgiveness work What I wish I knew: It’s not my fault Be sure to follow me on Instagram for daily inspiration: @odaatpodcast and @arlinaallen

Before I tell you about today’s guest, Did you know I run a 30 day sobriety bootcamp called Sobriety Reset?  Cuz I do! If you’re sober curious and want to try your first 30 days, or maybe you’ve relapsed and you’d like a little extra support tackling the typical hurdles of early recovery, then check it out at SobrietyReset.com.    It’s an online course with a private support group that is designed using proven tools and strategies to put you in the right mindset for success.    For your convenience there’s an FAQ page on website, or you can simply reach out to me at arlina@soberlifeschool.com and I’ll respond within 24 hours.   Okay, so. Today my guest is Albert Flynn DeSilver, author, poet and writing coach for “The Mindful Authors Accelerator”.    Albert has a cool story and I really appreciated his transparency in talking about the violence he experienced as a young child, the highs and lows of his drinking and using, but also the unique path he had to recovery.    He said something I’ll never forget in the interview “Tell the story to let go of the story”. I feel like that really captures the essence of why we do so much journaling and sharing in recovery programs. That was definitely the case for me and countless others I’ve talked to. He now dedicates a lot of time into helping aspiring writers to tell their stories in book format. If you’ve been thinking about writing a book, you’ll really appreciate this one. It’s still a cool story even if you aren’t.    So without further adu, please enjoy this episode with Albert.

Listen On: Apple Podcasts - https://apple.co/30g6ALF Spotify - https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify Stitcher - https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ Watch Full Episodes! YouTube: https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo Connect with Lisa Smith Visit Website: https://lisasmithadvisory.com/ Follow on Instagram @girlwalksout

Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!   Listen On:   https://apple.co/30g6ALF     https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify     https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ       Watch Full Episodes!   https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo               Connect with Mary Beth! Visit Website: https://junkietojudge.com/   Watch on YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg     Lightning Round Answers:  Book recommendation: AA and NA Books, Rational Recovery Books Favorite Quote: Success and recovery, sustained by one’s own efforts What I wish I knew: I wish I had more confidence that I could stay sober Fun: Read, Movies, and Recovery Advocacy Be sure to follow me on Instagram for daily inspiration: @odaatpodcast and @arlinaallen

Hey Friend,   Thank you for downloading the podcast, my name is Arlina, and I’ll be your host.   Today I have a special announcement….this is the 200th episode! It feels like a really big milestone and I just want to offer a heartfelt thank you to all of you for listening and to all the guests who so freely give their time, thoughts and expertise and I truly hope you find the podcast helpful.   To celebrate, I’ve asked licensed marriage family therapist, Michelle Farris back to the podcast to discuss her presentation: The 3 Pillars of Healthy Relationships. I mean, who doesn’t struggle with relationships here and there right? Family members, people at work and even friendships can cause you heartache sometimes. So Michelle will talk about boundaries, communication, and how to manage emotions.   If you have any comments or questions, shoot ‘em over on IG @odaatpodcast or the Facebook page and Michelle and I will respond.   And without further adu, I hope you enjoy this special episode!

Connect with Lane Kennedy! Visit Website: https://lanekennedy.com/ Follow on Instagram: @lane_kennedy_ Watch: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuRolkOZ7X8fCEFCDYd5tg   Hello Loves,   Thank you for downloading the podcast, my name is Arlina, and I’ll be your host.   In case we haven’t met yet, I am a certified Recovery Coach and Hypnotist. I am obsessed with all things recovery, including neuroscience, reprogramming the subconscious mind, law of attraction, all forms of personal growth and spirituality. I have been practicing abstinence from drugs and alcohol since 4/23/94, and I believe in people finding what works for them. I honor all forms of recovery, so I encourage you to find what works for you.

Connect with Tamar Medford: Visit Website: https://www.theroadforward.ca/ Follow on Instagram @theroadbeyondrecovery Be sure to follow me on Instagram for daily inspiration: @odaatpodcast and @arlinaallen Hello Loves,   Thank you for downloading the podcast, my name is Arlina, and I’ll be your host.   In case we haven’t met yet, I am a certified Recovery Coach and Hypnotist. I am obsessed with all things recovery, including neuroscience, reprogramming the subconscious mind, law of attraction, all forms of personal growth and spirituality. I have been practicing abstinence from drugs and alcohol since 4/23/94, and I believe in people finding what works for them. 

Connect with Ben Visit Website: https://www.tmsbrainhealth.com/   Lightning Round Answers:  Book recommendation: My Booky Wook: A Memoir of Sex, Drugs, and Stand-Up, by Russel Brand Favorite Quote: Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face - Mike Tyson What I wish I knew: The easier softer way is to go to rehab and get help Fun: Work Be sure to follow me on Instagram for daily inspiration: @odaatpodcast and @arlinaallen   Hello Loves,   Thank you for downloading the podcast, my name is Arlina, and I’ll be your host.   In case we haven’t met yet, I am a certified Recovery Coach and Hypnotist. I am obsessed with all things recovery, including neuroscience, spirituality, law of attraction, and all forms of personal growth. I have been practicing abstinence from drugs and alcohol since 4/23/94, and I believe in people finding what works for them.    In this episode, I’ll be sharing a conversation I had with Ben Spielberg, Founding Neuroscientist & Chief Executive Officer of TMS & Brain Health. He shares his personal story of addiction and recovery, as well as the work done at the TMS treatment facilities.   Just a little disclaimer here, I am obviously not a doctor and I don’t play one on the internet. Please use your own judgment when selecting medical treatments.   So with that, I hope you enjoy this conversation with Ben

Connect with Nikki Myers Visit Website: y12sr.com   Lightning Round Answers:  Book recommendation: Whole Brain Living: The Anatomy of Choice and the Four Characters That Drive Our Life by Dr Jill Bolte Tayler Favorite Quote: Next good, right, honest thing What I wish I knew: Recovery isn’t linear Be sure to follow me on Instagram for daily inspiration: @odaatpodcast and @arlinaallen   Hello Loves,   Thank you for downloading the podcast, my name is Arlina, and I’ll be your host.   I’m excited to introduce you to today’s guest, the super fabulous Nikki Myers. She is the founder of y12sr, a website and community that combines yoga and the 12 step program in such a beautiful way, that it’s an experience you don’t want to miss.   We talk about her recovery journey that started after she reached a bottom from crack cocaine and alcohol in 1987, and how her journey included a couple of relapses, but ultimately lead her to the beautiful place of peace where she is now.   Before we jump in, please be sure to subscribe on iTunes, Spotify and follow the podcast on Instagram, @odaatpodcast for daily inspiration and resources.    At the end of this conversation, my heart felt full from all the wisdom she shared and I hope you feel the same. So with that, please enjoy this episode, with Nikki!  

Lightning Round Answers:  Book recommendations:  Codependent No More, by Melody Beattie  Overeaters Anonymous Twelve steps and 12 Traditions CBT Workbook for Perfectionists by Sharon Martin   Favorite Quote: This too shall pass What I wish I knew: Recovery is a continuous process Be sure to follow me on Instagram for daily inspiration: @odaatpodcast and @arlinaallen Hello Loves,   Thank you for downloading the podcast, my name is Arlina, and I’ll be your host.   In case you didn’t know, you can subscribe to the podcast on iTunes or new episodes delivered right to your inbox by joining my newsletter at odaatchat.com. You can also get daily sobriety inspiration on Instagram, just follow @odaatpodcast       Today you’ll hear from licensed marriage and family therapist, Michelle Farris. She helps people resolve anger, and heal from eating disorders and codependency, among other areas of focus.    I learned so much in this conversation with Michelle, like:    Why we can’t will ourselves to be ready to do the work How core issues show up as trigger The difference between codependent and narcissistic How to identify if you have codependency issues   And so much more…in fact, we’re going to record some additional conversations around how to process anger, so stay tuned for that.   I’d love to hear what resonated with you the most, so drop me a line on the socials or email me at arlina@soberlifeschool.com  - So with that, please enjoy this episode with Michelle

Resources:  https://www.AA.org   https://www.hazelden.org/store/item/233?Keep-It-Simple-Working-The-12-Steps         Be sure to follow me on Instagram for daily inspiration: @odaatpodcast and @arlinaallen   Show Notes:    Hello Loves,   Thank you for downloading the podcast, my name is Arlina, and I’ll be your host.   In this week's episode, Brooke Collins and I are reviewing 12 step homework we did from steps 10-12. We chat for few minutes before jumping in, but hang in there, cuz you made it to the end and this is a great conversation!   Just a reminder that we do not represent AA and we are simply sharing our combined experience of 37 years of continuous sobriety, which for us means abstinence.   The books we use are the  “Alcoholics Anonymous” book and the “Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions” which can be accessed for free at AA.org   If you are enjoying this series, and past guest episodes, please take a few minutes to rate and review the podcast on iTunes. It helps our rankings which in turn helps people suffering with addictions find us.   We do a live Q&A on Instagram on Tuesdays at 4:00 PM PST and 7:00 PM EST. Just follow me on Instagram @arlinaallen or Brooke @brookecollinscoaching    So with that, please enjoy this episode with Brooke!

Thank you for downloading the podcast, my name is Arlina, and I’ll be your host.   In this week's episode, Brooke Collins and I are reviewing 12 step homework we did from steps 7-9. The books we use are the  “Alcoholics Anonymous” book and the “Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions” which can be accessed for free at AA.org   Just a reminder that we do not represent AA and we are simply sharing our combined experience of 37 years of continuous sobriety, which for us means abstinence.   I do have one request for you who are listening today. If you are enjoying this series, and past guest episodes, please take a few minutes to rate and review the podcast on iTunes. It helps our rankings which in turn helps people suffering with addictions find us.   We do a live Q&A on Instagram on Tuesdays at 4:00 PM PST and 7:00 PM EST. Just follow me on Instagram @arlinaallen or Brooke @brookecollinscoaching    So with that, please enjoy this episode with Brooke!

In this week's episode, Brooke Collins and I are reviewing 12 step homework we did from steps 4-6. The books we use are the  “Alcoholics Anonymous” book and the “Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions” which can be accessed for free at AA.org   Just a reminder that we do not represent AA and we are simply sharing our combined experience of 37 years of continuous sobriety, which for us means abstinence.   I do have one request for you who are listening today. If you are enjoying this series, and past guest episodes, please take a few minutes to rate and review the podcast on iTunes. It helps our rankings which in turn helps those who are suffering with addictions. In recovery rooms we are taught that we are responsible to be there when others need us.   Simply by rating the podcast you are helping those just like you, to find the solutions and support they need to get and stay sober. Your support means the world to us, so thank you from the bottom of my heart.   So with that, please enjoy this episode with Brooke!

Hello Loves,   Thank you for downloading the podcast, my name is Arlina, and I’ll be your host.   Today I’m excited to bring you a conversation I had with author and recovery advocate, Ryan Hampton. Ryan recently published a new book detailing the Purdue Pharma bankruptcy, which will not only shock and infuriate you, but will also give you hope and inspire you to take action locally.   We are truly in the midst of an opioid crisis that is not going away any time soon. The repercussions will echo for decades and we need all hands on deck.   Some of the details of this story are sickening but I found the book to be compelling in a very positive way. It reaffirmed my own personal desire to help as many people as I can.   So on that note, I’m hosting a 4 part series called “12 Step Homework” with my friend and Certified Coach, Brooke Collins.   We thought it would be helpful to share our combined 37 years of sobriety and experience with working the 12 steps with those of you who are either wanting ideas on what homework to give your sponcees, or what exercises you can do with a sponsor.   Last week’s episode was on steps 1-3 and this week we’ll cover steps 4-6. Here’s the fun part: you can actually join us LIVE on Instagram Tuesday nights at 5:00pm MST/ 7:00 EST and ask us questions or share the step homework you did. We did it last week and it was a lot of fun! Just follow me on Instagram and look for @arlinaallen to join us live So with that, please enjoy this episode with Ryan!

Hello Loves,   Thank you for downloading the podcast, my name is Arlina, and I’ll be your host.   In case we haven’t met yet, I am a certified Recovery Coach and Hypnotist. I am obsessed with all things recovery, including neuroscience, reprogramming the subconscious mind, law of attraction, all forms of personal growth and spirituality. I have been practicing abstinence from drugs and alcohol since 4/23/94, and I believe in people finding what works for them.    If you haven’t already, please subscribe to the podcast on iTunes or follow us on Instagram at  @odaatpodcast so you don’t miss out on any upcoming episodes like this one.   Today I have the honor of sharing a very touching story from my new friend Tim Lodgen. I found Tim’s openness and vulnerability to be truly courageous. He has a huge following on Instagram already and he shares the message of hope in a profound way. His stories will both bring a tear to your eye, but in that magical way that only those of us in recovery really understand. It was such a pleasure to speak with Tim today. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did.

Please Subscribe For More Episodes!   iTunes: https://apple.co/30g6ALF Spotify: https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify Stitcher: https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ YouTube Channel: https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo Be sure to follow me on Instagram for daily inspiration: @odaatpodcast and @arlinaallen Connect with Brooke! Visit Website: https://www.innovativecoachbrooke.com/ Follow on Instagram: @brookecollinscoaching  Hello Loves,   Thank you for downloading the podcast, my name is Arlina, and I’ll be your host.   Today I'd like to introduce you to the lovely Brooke Collins. She’s been sober for nearly 10 years at the time of this recording. An amazing accomplishment considering where she came from. She was addicted to alcohol, in an abusive relationship and had a small child. That is a TOUGH pit to climb out of, but with the help of a recovery community and her higher power, she recovered and has built a beautiful life for herself and her daughter. I’m so happy to share her story with you!   Before we jump in, I’d like to ask you to follow the podcast on Instagram, the account is @odaatpodcast. I’m creating a ton of content that follows the lessons from Sobriety Reset, a self paced, online course for sobriety. the cover topics like, how to finally answer the question “am I an alcoholic?” How to handle social events sober, how to diffuse emotional triggers, how to resolve past trauma, how to create a quick but effective daily practice to maintain sobriety and much more. If you want to learn more about the course, just visit SobrietyReset.com.    So there you have it, please enjoy this episode with the beautiful soul, Brooke Collins!

Please Subscribe For More Episodes!   iTunes: https://apple.co/30g6ALF Spotify: https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify Stitcher: https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ YouTube Channel: https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo If you’re not already, please follow the podcast on instagram to see behind the scenes clips, upcoming guests, and we are now doing IG Lives with our new inhouse writer, Jennifer MacArthur. You can find it by searching for: @odaatpodcast    Today I’ll be interviewing my most favorite person in the world…my husband! I met him shortly after I got sober in 94 and besides getting sober, he’s the best thing that’s happened to me.   Bob just celebrated 33 years of continuous sobriety. I love his recovery story and I’m so excited to share it with you! So with that, please enjoy this episode, with Bob.   Be sure to follow me on Instagram for daily inspiration: @odaatpodcast and @arlinaallen    

Please Subscribe For More Episodes!   iTunes: https://apple.co/30g6ALF Spotify: https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify Stitcher: https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ YouTube Channel: https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo   Connect with Julie Website: https://juliebloom.world/en/   Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/julie-bloom-m-ed-b-comm-2988b385/   Instagram: @juliebloom.world   Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/juliebloom.world?locale=fr_FR   Be sure to follow me on Instagram for daily inspiration: @odaatpodcast and @arlinaallen Hello Loves,   Thank you for downloading the podcast, my name is Arlina, and I’ll be your host.   Before we jump in, I have a question for you. Would you enjoy getting a weekly email from me with a list of my favorite recovery/self-improvement books, the “holy crap this is good” podcast episodes I’m listening to, along with the meditations that are helping me stay sane? If you’re saying “hell yeah” then visit odaatchat.com to sign up for the weekly newsletter. And if you do, you’ll also get links to the weekly odaat podcast episodes on YouTube, so you can see my guests in action!   Today’s guest is the lovely Julie Bloom. I met Julie in my coaching certification class, and she quickly became my personal coach! She has helped my ADHD brain stay focused on my goals, manage my priorities and has helped me get “unstuck” so I can complete projects that feel overwhelming. She speaks several languages fluently, she’s a corporate wellness trainer and just an all around amazingly intuitive magical unicorn and I adore her! She’s going to share her story, but we also talk about how sobriety was important in the role of healing from PTSD.   So with that, please enjoy this episode, with Julie!

Please Subscribe For More Episodes!   iTunes: https://apple.co/30g6ALF Spotify: https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify Stitcher: https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ YouTube Channel: https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo   Connect with Jeremy! Visit Website: wearmolt.com Listen to Podcast: https://anchor.fm/moltafflictions Follow on Instagram @wearmolt   Lightning Round Answers:  Book recommendation: Alcoholics Anonymous Favorite Quote: No tree can grow to heaven unless it’s roots reach down to hell - Carl Jung What I wish I knew: Being Sober is Different than Recovery Be sure to follow me on Instagram for daily inspiration: @odaatpodcast and @arlinaallen   Hello Loves,   Thank you for downloading the podcast, my name is Arlina, and I’ll be your host.   Today my guest is Jeremy Melloul, founder of Molt - a men’s clothing brand that not only raises addiction awareness, but actually contributes a portion of the proceeds to fund sober living for those in need. He is also the host of the Molt Addiction Podcast, where I had the opportunity to share some of my recovery journey.   In this episode he shares his recovery from heroin addiction, and we talk about attachment disorders, family dynamics in early recovery, his daily morning recovery practice and lots more. I hope you enjoy this episode as much as I did!

Please Subscribe For More Episodes!   iTunes: https://apple.co/30g6ALF Spotify: https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify Stitcher: https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ YouTube Channel: https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo Be sure to follow me on Instagram for daily inspiration: @odaatpodcast and @arlinaallen

Please Subscribe For More Episodes!   iTunes: https://apple.co/30g6ALF Spotify: https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify Stitcher: https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ YouTube Channel: https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo   Purchase Her Book on Amazon! Be sure to follow me on Instagram for daily inspiration: @odaatpodcast and @arlinaallen Hello Loves,   Thank you for downloading the podcast, my name is Arlina, and I’ll be your host.   In case we haven’t met yet, I am a certified Recovery Coach and Hypnotist. I am obsessed with all things recovery, including neuroscience, reprogramming the subconscious mind, law of attraction, all forms of personal growth and spirituality. I have been practicing abstinence from drugs and alcohol since 4/23/94, and I believe in people finding what works for them.    Today I’ll be talking with Dr Anna Lembke, she is Chief of the Stanford Addiction Medicine Dual Diagnosis Clinic at Stanford University and author of the #1 Bestseller “Dopamine Nation: Finding Balance In the Age of Indulgence”. It would be a vast understatement to say it was such an honor to interview her for the podcast.  If you’ve been listening to these interviews for any length of time, you’ll know I love learning about ideas I can share that will help lead people out of suffering. Up til now I’ve been hyper focused on empathy largely based off of Brene Brown’s work around vulnerability and she shared that empathy is the antidote to shame. I’ve also treasured the idea that “honesty without compassion is cruelty” so I’ve been pretty focused on empathy but it felt like something was missing.   Then I read this by Anna: “Empathy without accountability perpetuates victimhood”. I had an absolute “holy crap” moment. Not an “aha”, a holy crap. Because, I believe that I can’t really help people who are stuck or committed to a victim mentality. Those are people who are unwilling or unable to accept personal responsibility and I actually have a visceral and negative response to that type of thinking.   I had to send Anna a follow up email and ask for more feedback, specifically around what to say to people who have relapsed, and this is what she said:   “I’m so sorry. I’m sorry for your suffering. That must be so hard.”  What this does is validate that the relapse happened, while also acknowledging the pain that person is experiencing. I think of it similar to what I would say to someone who told me their cancer which had been in remission came back.”   So brilliant. I just love her.   Anyway, that was a very long intro, but I wanted you to have that extra bit of wisdom from her.   I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did.   Arlina Allen  6:09   Okay, here we go. We'll talk to you. Thank you. Thank you so much for joining me on the podcast.   Unknown Speaker  6:15   Thank you for inviting me, I am very happy to be here.   Arlina Allen  6:18   I'm so excited. Listen, I say that all the time. But I really, really men it this time because I have been reading your book, and actually I listened to the audio book first while I'm walking, because I sort of like the first wash of like, all these concepts. And then I get the book because I'm a students. And I like to, you know, highlight and underline and Mark things. And this book was stuff. It has some pictures. Yeah. Picture like people like me, pictures are amazing. Yeah. But I just it's called dopamine, finding balance in the age of indulgence, I'm sorry, dopamine nation. And, wow, I have so many questions to ask. But I think a good place to start might be with maybe what what is dopamine? Really, because I think there's a lot of misconceptions about what dopamine is, there isn't like a dopamine pill. But you know, when people take drugs, I think they activate dopamine, but maybe I don't really have a good understanding. So I thought maybe I could sort of clarify what it really is, and, and why it's important.   Dr Anna Lembke  7:31   Yeah, so dopamine is a chemical that we make in our brain. And it's very important for the experience of motivation, reward, and pleasure, and also fundamental in this self reregulating kind of system, that's called homeostasis, that is so fundamental to our physiology, and also, you know, to our survival. So essentially, you know, in a kind of broad brushstrokes simplified form, if you imagine that there is a balance in your brain, kind of like a teeter totter in a kid's playground, when we do something pleasurable that balance tips one way, and when we do something that's painful, that balance tips the other way, or when we ingest a substance that's pleasurable, or when we have an injury, you know, we cut our finger to the side of pain. But one of the overarching rules governing that balance is that it wants to remain level or preserve what neuroscientists call homeostasis. And it will work very hard to preserve a level balance with any deviation from neutrality. So when we do something that is pleasurable, we release dopamine, the pleasure neurotransmitter in the brain's reward pathway, which is a special part of our brain that's been conserved over millions of years, and is the same across many different species, even very primitive organisms. And that balance tip slightly to the side of pleasure. But no sooner Has that happened, then our brain will try to reregulate to bring that balance level again. And it does that by down regulating dopamine production and down regulating dopamine transmission in the reward pathway. But it doesn't just bring dopamine back down to tonic baseline levels, it actually brings it below baseline. So what happens I think of that as these Gremlins hopping on the pain side of the balance to bring in level again, but they stay on until the balance is tipped and equal and opposite amount to the side of pain. Yes, and that's of course, the kind of looking at the book. There's a little graphic in there, right there. And with Gremlins, right, I'm also a visual thinker. And so I just, you know, wanted to create a simple metaphor.   Arlina Allen  9:52   This is Brian, on page 52 of the book. There's like the seesaw or the teeter totter that you mentioned. And I thought That was so interesting because it when you're talking about uh when we indulge in the dopamine like you know even on the little graph is chocolate social media gaming porn shopping in my case drugs alcohol all that stuff not to say that I don't indulge in social media those other are those other things shopping that we there is that deficit it's like the equal opposite   Dr Anna Lembke  10:26   yes right for every pleasure we pay a price yes price is the come down and sometimes can be very subtle outside of conscious awareness. But you know it's there. And you know if we wait long enough that feeling of wanting to buy one more thing or watch one more video or have one more piece of chocolate goes away and and homeostasis is restored. But if we continue to bombard our dopamine reward pathway with highly reinforcing drugs and behaviors, what ends up happening is that to compensate for that, let's say artificially high levels of dopamine and I call it artificial because you know, the fundamental difference between things that are addictive and those that are not are that addictive, things release a whole lot more dopamine in the reward pathway. And of course, technology has taken even things that were not addictive like food, and made them highly potent and turn them into drugs or human connection. Social media has drug A fight human connection. But as a result of constantly bombarding our dopamine reward pathways, what ends up happening is our brains are desperately trying to compensate. And so they're way down down regulate, our brains are down regulating our dopamine production, and we end up in this kind of chronic dopamine deficit state where we have, you know, 1000s, of Gremlins on the pain side of the balance, and they've kind of camped out there, right, they brought their barbecues, their tents, they're not going anywhere fast. And, and it lasts a long time, which I think is really fundamental to understanding a couple of things. The first thing is, why on earth do people with addiction, relapse, after months, or even years of recovery and abstinence and their lives are so much better? Why on earth would they go back to using the reason is because they're not necessarily walking around. With a level balance, they are potentially walking around with a balance tilted to the side of pain on a daily basis experiencing the universal symptoms of withdrawal, which can last for months to years. And those include anxiety, insomnia, irritability, depression, and craving or intrusive thoughts of wanting views. The other reason I think this is balances is really helpful, is because not only does it allow us to understand the disease of addiction and relapse and to have compassion for that. But also it might explain, and this is the fundamental hypothesis of dopamine nation. Why it is that despite the fact that we have all our survival needs met, and then some why our rates of depression, anxiety and suicide going up all over the world, especially in rich countries. And I do believe that's because we individually and collectively, are engaging in so many high reward high pleasure activities and substances, that in order for our primitive brains to compensate, we have collectively downregulated, our own dopamine transmission such that we're all more depressed and anxious.   Arlina Allen  13:22   Yeah, you know, in the beginning of recovery, a lot of people talk about boredom. And I think we're so overstimulated when we're using that, when we get sober and practice that, you know, those of us are practicing practicing abstinence, I am aware that there is like harm reduction, you know, and that's the thing I totally I feel like that's totally valid. I quit drinking alcohol on my 25th birthday and continued to smoke weed for five months. I didn't know that recovery is about complete apps. That's just, they called it the marijuana maintenance program back in the day. Uh huh. Anyway, now we're calling it harm reduction, just fine. But what I thought was so interesting is and this is what I have heard over the years is that when people first get sober, they're bored. And I listened to the interview you did with Dr. Andrew Huber many we're talking about boredom and anxiety, which at first blush, you wouldn't think that those two go together. But when all your needs are met, and you really have and you don't have a passion or in my case obsessions for different things. If you don't if you don't have that you like get bored and then it's like, creates anxiety. Right? I see that in my kids.   Unknown Speaker  14:37   Yeah, of course. Yeah. I mean, especially the way because we're living in a time when we're constantly able to distract distract ourselves from our own thoughts, and our own ruminations and even our own creativity really, such that when we take away those distractions, we're suddenly you know, plummeted into the abyss really existentially We are bored, and sort of then contemplate well, gee, I don't have anything to do like, What? What is the purpose of my life anyway. But I think the key really is number one to acknowledge that boredom can be an extremely painful emotion, literally, physically painful, and scary. But that if we can just sit with it, and not try to run away from it, it is also the progenitor of creativity, and a place where new things are born. And so you know, just thinking about, like, you know, open space, like, it's like, you need space before you can have a supernova, you know, you need to have that blankness in order to, you know, initiate something new. And the internet really allows us all to be in this constant state of reactivity, where we're always responding to some some kind of input, rather than, you know, sitting quietly and generating.   Arlina Allen  15:56   Yeah, no, it's, I have a question for you about the neurotransmitter. So it's my understanding, like, from a chemistry perspective, that, you know, your receptors, your brain cells have receptors on them that are the uptake with Deborah allow the cells to receive the dopamine. And if you flood your cells, I'm sorry, I don't know that is your neurotransmitters? Yes, yes. Okay. So the receptor if there, there's like little receptors that allow that uptake of the dopamine, but if it's flooded too much, your cells will retract those receptors. Exactly. Right. So this is the attic mind, how long does it take the brain to heal, meaning it puts back a normal amount of receptors, because in my mind, I was thinking, I took some physiology anatomy in college, and it was like, Oh, that's why when people first stop using, they don't feel anything, it's like they can't, because their brain was trying to protect them this whole time by retracting those receptors, not allowing them to uptake the dopamine. And so because they're not there, people feel flat, like they, they feel flat, and they can't feel it. And so everybody always says, Well, how long until I start feeling good again? Like, how long does it take their brain cells to put those little receptors back out? So people start feeling good?   Dr Anna Lembke  17:21   Yeah, so in my clinical experience, it takes a minimum of a month, and that's less bad, not bad. And let me just say, a minimum of a month to start to regenerate other receptors and regulate dopamine transmission. But I mean, the protracted abstinence syndrome can last many months to even years, in some cases, right? Yeah. pends on the person, it depends on the drug, it depends on how you know how much they used. But in my clinical experience, and again, this is supported by some evidence, if people totally abstain for one month, in weeks one and two, that pleasure, pain balance to transmission is below baseline, because it's exactly as you say, our neurons have retracted those dopamine receptors, so we're not getting, you know, that stimulation. And we're experiencing withdrawal. But by weeks, three or four, people typically start to feel better. And by week four, even people with some very severe addictions, will start to notice improvement. Now, one thing you have to be really careful about is cross addiction. So all addictive substances work on that same common pathway, don't mean is a universal currency for the process of addiction, at least as far as we know, at this point. So if you give up your cannabis, but you keep smoking cigarettes, you know, you're not going to get the same kind of upregulation. Because you're not going to be abstaining from nicotine, which is gonna be you know, it's not, you know, most of my patients are not willing to give up cigarettes and nicotine and alcohol and all of it at once. That's a lot to give up. So whatever they're willing to do is great. And often they will see improvements, even if they just give up one thing. But to really get the full benefit and really restore homeostasis, you kind of have to give it all up in order. What   Arlina Allen  19:12   about what about caffeine?   Dr Anna Lembke  19:14   Well, you know, caffeine is a stimulant. So it sort of depends on how much you're using. If you're one cup of coffee a day, it probably isn't going to make much difference and you can just keep doing that. But if you're at you know, eight cups of coffee a day, that's that's probably probably time to. And the truth is that, believe it or not, it sounds harder to give it all up at once. But it might in fact be easier. There are studies showing that people who quit drinking and quit smoking cigarettes at the same time have better outcomes than people who just quit drinking but keep smoking.   Arlina Allen  19:50   Or these people who were considered pretty heavy on the alcohol use disorder spectrum or you know, I don't think alcoholic is really a A clinical term any longer Is that true?   Unknown Speaker  20:02   That's true.   Arlina Allen  20:03   It's alcohol use disorder.   Dr Anna Lembke  20:04   Yes, that's right. So we're trying to the alcoholic comes from Alcoholics Anonymous. It's just not a medicalized term. It's a perfectly good term. But it's just not one that we're, you know, we're using in Medicine Today we're trying to use a more generic term that can crossover many different substances to now it's, we don't even use the term addiction, believe it or not in a lot. Yeah, strange, right? And that's, you know, believe it or not, it hasn't really been the term the medical term. Now, let me say I use it all the time. It's the broadly understood term for this process. It is used in neuroscience texts. It is in the name of the of NIDA, the National, its own National Institute of Drug Abuse, which is a term we don't use anymore. The language of addiction is changing. But in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, it's not called nicotine addiction, or alcohol addiction. It's called nicotine use disorder, alcohol use disorder, cannabis use disorder, and I'm like that.   Arlina Allen  21:01   Okay. So it is specific to the whatever people are using. Okay, that's so interesting. I did not know that. Listen, I kind of came up in Alcoholics Anonymous. So, you know, but I've noticed that, and I'm sure you've noticed this too, like, and maybe not because you're not on social media. Is that true? You're not on social media? That's not true. Yeah, that's true. But you are in the social dilemma. Right? Fascinating. Like I had resisted watching it, because I'm sorry, I was sort of in the camp of, you know, I use social media for good. You know, so I don't, I didn't maybe are good. Yeah, it can. Yeah, I mean, it's that's how I communicate all everything that I do. My podcast and everything that I do is I'm trying to disseminate information, you know, solution. And he's social media. So I'm like, it's all it hits like money. It's all in how you use it, right? Like you use your powers for good. Kind of like Spider Man. But, um, where am I going with that, but but it's there's a bit of self denial because I do find I'm, you know, sort of like the typical addict, let's say, have that sort of propensity for addiction or anything obsessive anything that I like, I want more, right, I don't really have that off switch. So it's like, oh, I found something I'm passionate about is helping people recovering, Alcoholics Anonymous, and so that's all I want to do. So he says, it seems like a healthier obsession.   Dr Anna Lembke  22:37   You know, putting investing our energy into things that we care about, that gives us to me meaning and purpose that serve others that make the world a better place, those are all those are all good things, they can also cross the line into addiction, we can, you know, there is work addiction. People can get, you know, caught up in that in a way that's not healthy for themselves or others. But in general, you know, when we're serving others, those are usually healthy behaviors.   Arlina Allen  23:06   Yeah, I remembered my point of that little thing I just did. But with the social media, it's so interesting to see that the vernacular is changing in the world of social media, how people like me who are trying to disseminate information about recovery and sobriety, the vernacular is changing, because a lot of people, women, especially, actually are very, like anti a, because of the male dominated vocabulary. And, you know, there's this sort of patriarchal overtone, and overtures. And I kind of grew up in the church where I learned to, you know, you're supposed to read the Bible, and then you sort of decipher what it means to you. When I got sober. I was like, these people are like, Oh, you can solve that problem here. And I was like, I'm all in. And I would read the text and literature and I would just translate like, I had that ability to translate into what it means to me. So I didn't really get hung up on I was super desperate to be sober. So I didn't get hung up on terms like alcoholic or, you know, everything being in he him. There's like in the book, I'm sure you're familiar, a chapter to the lives, right? Yeah. As if we were, you know, the women were sort of secondary. And so there's all this discussion right now about how, like a lot of people I interview they talk about alcohol free, they won't even use the word like alcoholic seem shaming. Uh huh. Or have you have you experienced that and the people that come to see you.   Dr Anna Lembke  24:43   I certainly have, you know, encountered a lot of people who for whom a was not useful or effective, but I've encountered an equal number or more for whom a was absolutely you know, the lifesaver for them men and women. But I think it's important to put a into its historical context, it started in the 1930s. It was started by, you know, two men who met each other and support each other. It is one of the most remarkable and robust social movements in the last 100 years, totally peer driven, takes no financial outside support takes no political stance is free is everywhere. And I do agree with you that, you know, language was important and needs to change with changing times. And I think there have been some updates to the big book, you know, more more modern, and more accessible. And certainly, I've heard of certain I'm aware of abuses in the rooms and in a, I mean, I'm glad today that there are many options, different options for me to get into recovery online, in person. abstinence oriented, moderation oriented, and I think this is great. I think there are lots of paths to the top of the mountain. But I would not throw out a you know, I know, it's a really powerful philosophy and approach. And, you know, just absolutely miraculous for, you know, for people for whom it works and who actively participate.   Arlina Allen  26:15   Yeah, well, there you go, you have to actively participate. I'm a huge fan like it absolutely. There was not actually when I got sober 27 years ago, there wasn't really nothing else. Yeah, there was really nothing else, I was super grateful. And I lived in San Jose. So in the Bay Area, where you are, there are there were like 800 meetings a week. Yeah. And there were women's meetings and very specialized meetings, there was I used to go to a 6am meeting every day that attracts a certain crowd. So I was I was super lucky. And I know that's not the case everywhere. But   Dr Anna Lembke  26:51   the other thing to keep in mind is that the rates of alcohol use disorder and women have gone up 85% in the last two decades, 85%, the ratio of women who are addicted to alcohol, or men who are addicted to alcohol versus women has been in the range of five to one to two to one for many generations, but in the last generation, starting with the millennials, that is approached one to one. And so now women are as likely to present with an alcohol use disorder as men, which is a brand new phenomenon. And really, you know, therefore, I do appreciate that, you know, women, who are we have more women than ever, you know, addicted to alcohol, they're also wanting new ways that are better suited to women, possibly, you know, to get into recovery.   Arlina Allen  27:41   Yeah, I had a friend point out that, you know, the court system is sending people to a, who may or may not belong there, you know, predators, people with, you know, you know, violent histories or whatever that, you know, the court system is sending a lot of people there, too, I always tell women to go to women's meetings,   Dr Anna Lembke  28:00   I think that's a good place place to start. Or what I say to people is that, you know, going to meetings is a little bit. I mean, maybe this isn't a great analogy, but it's a little bit like dating, you have to, you know, meet a bunch of different meetings before you find one that you like, that's a great analogy. And there's a lot of frogs. Yeah. And then the truth is that recovery is better in some meetings than others. So you want to make sure you find a meeting where there's good recovery and recovery can change. I mean, these are very organic, human gatherings, and you can have a meeting that's really unhealthy and positive, and then it loses a few key people, or there's some other disruption of location or time you lose that frame and you lose the meeting. So it's important to, you know, to just make sure you're going to Good, good meetings.   Arlina Allen  28:47   Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I've seen, like for women who have children like I, you for, so I was with my husband, and he's sober. And we didn't go to meetings together for like, 10 years when we first had kids, because number one, I never, I can't focus on funding to bring my kid to Yeah, it was just a variety mindset. Yeah, yeah. So there were so for women, when they have kids, it's like lifestyle changes, you know, affect your ability to go to, to meetings. I know. For some women, it was like, they're working full time. They have kids, it's like, you want me to go to 90 meetings in 90 days? That seems impossible. But you know, nowadays, it's a little different because we have online meetings and things like that. We have a little more, but gosh, it depends. I know the pandemic was really hard on a lot of people in a lot of ways. But it also presented has now provided new opportunities, because now women can go to meetings like we can literally, there's an international woman's meeting that goes 24 seven. Wow, that's cool. Yeah, it's been continuous for four months now. I want to ask you, I've so many questions. So we were talking about early recovery, people experiencing boredom and Takes about, you know, it takes some time for that to heal. So I think if people are aware of that that's coming that they can adapt to that. And to know that their passions for things will come back. Dr. Haberman described addiction as a narrowing of things that bring pleasure. And it's so interesting because as soon as we set it down, it's like, we start finding other things interesting again, when it comes to so I'm a mom, I know a lot of my listeners are your mom, you know, the whole video game thing, especially in this age of pandemic, where kids don't really have a whole lot to do and they're craving connection. It's been really confusing as a parent to know how to support your kids. It's like, Listen, I can't entertain their, you know, their teenagers, I can entertain them the whole time. It's like I have work to do. But I'm terrified about what's what happens to them sometimes in this in this age, and I have moms that are like, and our kids are so in touch with, like their neurosis now, like when I was coming up, we didn't know that my sister was struggling with clinical depression. We didn't know that that was the thing. The you know, whatever. 40 I don't know how overall I don't do math A long time ago. But now the kids are like, Oh, I have anxiety. I have depression. I have this. It's you know, the sex. Sexual orientation is so fluid. And it's like, as a parent, it's hard to know how to support your kids because we were kind of grew. I think you grew up with syrup. Did you grow up with like, a little bit of tough love?   Dr Anna Lembke  31:36   Yeah, you know, a little bit of healthy neglect. I think it's fair to say, maybe verging on unhealthy neglect. But yeah, baby nine.   Unknown Speaker  31:44   Is that a thing? benign?   Arlina Allen  31:45   Yeah, so that's Yeah, my mom was a total badass. Is that was like it was the whole Go figure. Figure it out? That's right. Yeah, for yourself. And, but we don't do that to our kids now, because we are aware of like the suicide rate. So I feel like we're in a rock between a rock and a hard place, because we can't really do the hardest thing anymore. Because our kids might kill themselves. And it's like, how, as a mom, am I supposed to help my kids through the difficult times without them getting addicted to video games? Or like, even if they're home all the time, they're not doing drugs and alcohol? They can still be, you know, porn. And listen, I don't even want to know. But video, let's just say video games, just like the online stimulation. How do I, as a mom, like your mom, how do you help your kids? How do we help our kids like self regulate?   Dr Anna Lembke  32:44   Well, I think an important important place to start is to talk about how pleasure and pain are processed in the brain. And how the brain really does want to assert this level balance or preserve homeostasis. And that any deviation from neutrality, whether it's on the pleasure side, or the pain side actually constitutes a stressor to the brains when we think about what's stressing kids out. Now, I would argue, as I do argue, in my book, that it's all of the feel good drugs and behaviors that's actually contributing to the stressors itself. Because when we're the kids are playing these video games, they're getting a huge bolus of dopamine in the reward pathway, then their brains need to compensate by down regulating their own dopamine transmission, bringing it bringing in those postsynaptic receptors. Such that you know, when those kids try to pull away from the video game, first of all, it's very hard to do that they will experientially describe that. And then they're depressed. So it's actually the gaming and the pornography and the social media that is causing the depression and anxiety and not the other way around. So what I counsel parents to do is to first understand something about that basic neurophysiology, explain it to their kids, talk to kids about how these online products can be great, but they can also be drugs and that they have been engineered to be drugs and to keep us clicking, and swiping and scrolling. And that we have to be really mindful of how we're using them and that in moderation, it's just fine. But just like you wouldn't get up and eat ice cream for breakfast, you probably don't want to get up first thing in the morning and, you know, be scrolling through social media and do that all day long. You know, the all all good things in moderation. Right, right. I mean, so we're all we all struggle with this. It's not just our kids. The other thing I say to parents, you know, so, as a family, talk about the dangers in talking about the good things about social media and video games and all that, but also talk about the dangers. Talk about how important it is to pay attention to not just how you feel when you're doing the activity, but also how it makes you feel afterwards. Talk about the importance of having some device free and tech free times in the day like maybe at dinner time or some other time with the family. Family, maybe taking tech free vacations, if you can do that, where maybe for a week at a time, everybody leaves their devices at home and goes and interacts in nature. These are all things that people, they just like they're horrified at the thoughts they get, right? Thinking about just leaving their phone behind, but But the truth is, that's really an indication of how addicted, we have all become. Even the thought of not bringing our phones with us, you know, generates anxiety. And you know, that's the same thing as my patients who are addicted to alcohol. And the thought of not having access to alcohol at that party, or at that gathering, or when I get home, you know, is absolutely terrifying to me. So I think we really have to, you know, conceptualize these behaviors as potentially highly addictive and, you know, be thoughtful about organizing our use around them to really respect the pathophysiology. In the   Arlina Allen  35:57   first the first thought they came up here and he said, Take a tech free vacation, I was like, isn't the first week off of addiction like your worst week?   Dr Anna Lembke  36:06   It is, it is. And frankly, that's why I do recommend a full month off in order to give it enough time to reset reward pathways so that you're not craving anymore. Yeah. And then and then if you want to go back to using or you have to go back to using because you need the smartphone for your work. Really, at that point, it's much easier to be intentional and thoughtful about using differently using less barriers.   Arlina Allen  36:31   Like the self binding you were talking about.   Unknown Speaker  36:34   Right? Okay, so   Arlina Allen  36:35   I'm going to jump to that since we just talked about it. So page 93 of the book, we talk about binding and I thought that was really interesting. I loved how he used Homer's Odysseus and the sirens, the story of the sirens, how's the captain would be back on his air in time self to the boat. You know what's funny is this whole time I thought the sirens were like mermaids. They're birds.   Dr Anna Lembke  36:57   They're half bird, half human creatures who spell bind sailors with their enchanting song, lure them to the rocks, and kill them that way. Kill him. I don't know. But yeah, so the story, right is that that he he but he asks his sailors to bind him to the mast, and to put beeswax in his ear so they can get through that passage without being lowered, lowered by the sirens.   Arlina Allen  37:22   What are some of those? Okay, so we mentioned, let's see, I have a list of I had a list of soft binding, things you mentioned, you know, first thing that came to mind was rehab, that's kind of a soft binding thing. And it's the first 30 days gives you a chance for your brain to reset. Obviously, like changing your environment, removing all temptations around your house when you were talking about video games, you know, or other devices. You had an interesting, I don't want to spoil the book for anybody, but you had an interesting client or patient that had a machine. Right, right, machine. But anyway, he broke in her head and did all kinds of crazy things to try to avoid it. bless his heart, that must have been awful. But yeah, so we do all kinds of self binding practices or so but I kind of wanted to relay that relate that to medications, would you consider medications a self binding? practice?   Dr Anna Lembke  38:25   Yeah, I think they really can be so for example, if you take a medication like now trek zone, which blocks the opioid receptor, that's been shown to help people reduce or stop opioids because obviously if the receptors blocked opioids like heroin or fake it in whatever it is, can't bind, but alcohol is also mediated through our own endogenous opioid system. So when the naltrexone is on the opioid receptor, alcohol is not as reinforcing. And so that can help people either stop drinking alcohol or reduce the number of drinks on drinking days. So it's a nice medicine to help people not only whose goal is abstinence, but also who have a goal of moderation. You know,   Arlina Allen  39:09   I have a client who has a family member, let's say is probably physically addicted alcohol is naltrexone use for somebody that you're chemically detoxing or medically detoxing. Is that a is that a drug that   Dr Anna Lembke  39:24   we we think of detox which is that period of helping somebody through acute withdrawal, especially potentially life threatening withdrawal and say that alcohol withdrawal can be life threatening benzodiazepine withdrawal can be life threatening that Xanax, Valium, Klonopin, advant opioid withdrawal can be life threatening. So if you're somebody who's so physically dependent on alcohol, benzos, or opioids, that you're going to go into life threatening withdrawal, you wouldn't want to just quit, you know, you would want to go see a doctor and have a medically supervised you know, medically managed withdrawal All we really think of addiction treatment or recovery as beginning, when acute withdrawal is over. Oh god, no, naltrexone is a medicine that we would use to help somebody get into and maintain recovery. It's not a medicine that we use in in acute withdrawal.   Arlina Allen  40:22   Okay, so that's after acute withdrawal. That's right. Yeah, that's important. Let's talk a little bit about I like that you have dopamine as an acronym on page 88. Okay, he had it summarized in that little, and a picture. I like pictures. Can we go over the what it stands for?   Dr Anna Lembke  40:44   Yeah. So the dopamine acronym is really just a framework for how to initially approach the problem of compulsive overconsumption, or in some cases, addiction. This is a framework that is good choice in people who are not so physically dependent, that they're going to go into life threatening withdrawal. And it wouldn't be a good framework for somebody who had already repeatedly tried to stop on their own and just was incapable somebody, for example, who was injecting heroin multiple times a day and just couldn't even go for a day without so that that would be somebody who would really need a higher level of care. But for those of us who have maybe mild to moderate addiction, or maybe aren't even addicted yet, but we're on our way to becoming addicted and or just engaging in compulsive overconsumption. This dopamine acronym kind of outlines a basic framework, and the D stands for data. And that's where I asked patients to describe to me what they're using, how much how often, and just by getting them to articulate to another human being what they're doing, that often brings into relief, their actual use in a way that they can be in denial about as long as it's just kind of this amorphous behavior in their heads. So I really like to start with just asking them in a non judgmental way, you know, how much are you on social media? How many hours a day? What are you doing? The O of dopamine stands for objectives. And this really gets into why why is it that you're doing that drug, or that behavior? What's positive about it for you, because I really do think that even irrational behaviors make some sense, subjectively, and so it's important for us to understand what's driving that individual's behavior. And then the P of dopamine stands for problems, that's when we get into, you know, what's problematic about your use, I understand why you do it, I understand what's good about it, what's problematic about it, and that can range to everything from you know, it's not working anymore. Like it used to do X, Y, and Z for me, and it's not doing those things, too, it costs a lot of money to it's interfering with my relationships work with my ability to do schoolwork, with my health. So there are many, many different reasons that people people will say, often, you know, in the way they do it, that it's, you know, to solve a problem, like anxiety or depression, but it may not be solving that problem anymore.   Arlina Allen  43:13   Sorry. So you get them sort of in touch with specifics. Yeah. So yeah, so you're not asserting pressure? Because I think I used to be a sales grown and sales, they teach you not to pressure people because it viscerally creates resistance. Yeah, right. Right. But when you ask somebody like, what, what problems is it caused? Like, what specifically what caught? What problems? Is it causing for you? They're coming up with their own. Like, I went through that experience to specific consequences that were a problem for me,   Dr Anna Lembke  43:47   right? Yeah, you basically ask them just to be objective and analytical about their own subjective experience. And just kind of, you know, go, Hey, you know, this is what I do. And this is, this is how it makes me feel.   Arlina Allen  44:00   You know, what I love about science when it comes to addiction? Is it kind of depersonalized is that because we experienced so much shame and guilt? And we did terrible? Listen, I did, did some terrible and embarrassing things when I was drinking and using they caused guilt and shame, right? Well, when I started to understand the mechanics of why I fell into the trap in the first place, was sort of depersonalized it a little bit, right and took away some of the guilt and shame. And I love this approach of objective analytical sciency stuff, because it does sort of make it more easier for me to then accept the solution.   Dr Anna Lembke  44:37   Yeah, you realize it's not about your it's not that you're a bad person, it's that it's a bad disease. And these are highly addictive substances and behaviors and they were engineered to hook us, right. The a of dopamine is really the the key intervention and that's where I ask patients to abstain from their drug of choice for 30 days. Why 30 days because that's an amount of time that most people can wrap their head around and I say never drink again. I'm Not going to be very persuasive, but I say, Hey, can you give it up for 30 days, please, I can, I can probably do that. The other thing again is that 30 days is the minimum amount of time it takes for those neural adaptation Gremlins to hop off the pain side of the balance for homeostasis to be restored, which is just another way of saying that's the amount of time it takes for us to up regulate our dopamine receptors and dopamine transmission so that we can widen our lens start to enjoy other things, but also look back and see true cause and effect because when we're chasing dopamine we really don't see the impact that it has on our lives.   Arlina Allen  45:37   It's so we get so blind that's like the denial part, right? Yeah, we lose completely lose perspective.   Dr Anna Lembke  45:43   That's right. The hard thing about getting patients to you know engage in this in this task is that many of them come in feeling bad already, right? They're looking fresh and anxiety and then I'm suggesting to do something that's going to actually make them feel worse and worse. But what I say to them it's kind of like getting you know treatment for cancer it's it's really hard when you're in it, but when you come out the other side of it, it'll it'll be worth it and potentially life saving, saving. Yeah. And then the The M is stands for mindfulness is just a way to sit with feelings, including negative, scary, strange feelings, without judgment and also without reaction without trying to get rid of those feelings. insight of dopamine acronym, just stands for how this this experiment really does give us an enormous amount of insight often into how addicted we really are. Because like I said, we were we will tend to minimize and normalize and you know, in the book, I talk about my my own romance novel reading addiction. So   Unknown Speaker  46:42   funny as all I'm right there with you, girl. Until I like, Oh, yeah, right. As it is embarrassing. my   Arlina Allen  46:48   mic, as   Unknown Speaker  46:49   I know, it is.   Arlina Allen  46:51   My boys are like sparkly vampires. What   Dr Anna Lembke  46:53   is right, right, I know, two additional ways that we are sort of incontinent around our desires is always shame producing. It's interesting. Yeah. But, but you know, this is really again, just a way to gather data, do an experiment, gain insight. And it's an embodied physical experiment, I think that's really key, too, because so much of our mental health interventions are asking patients to sort of just rearrange their thoughts. But this is a really physical thing where you know, you go into withdrawal, you know, when you feel that physically, and it's painful. So kind of asking people to embrace something that's painful in the service of feeling better in the long run. And then N stands for next steps. That's when people come back after a month, if they were able to do it, I say, Okay, do you want to keep abstaining? Or do you want to go back to using and most of them say they want to go back to using what they want to use in moderation? Yeah. And sometimes   Arlina Allen  47:48   disappointing for you to hear, like, does that make you nervous, you know,   Dr Anna Lembke  47:51   sometimes, because sometimes my choice for them really would be absence, and I kind of know that they're not going to be able to moderate. But you know, you got to meet patients where they are. And if I try to railroad them into it, it's not going to work pressure, sometimes they just have to go out and get more data and go through that loop a couple more times. And they're like, you know, what, I think I'm better off abstaining. I that's much more persuasive than if I try to tell them, that's not really gonna work for you. The other thing I would say is I have had patients who surprised me, and actually with enormous effort, were able to abstain sometimes even when they were able to do it, though they said it wasn't worth it, it took too much effort and energy, that it was easier to abstain. But importantly, there are no drugs that we use that we can't abstain from, like food, or like our smartphones so hard. Yeah. Or sex. I mean, I think most of us think of sex as, as a part of, you know, a healthy part of a healthy life. But then that idea of Well, how do we moderate becomes important, I think, for all of us, even for those of us who are trying to abstain from our drug of choice, because, because we're just bombarded by these highly rewarding substances and behaviors. And so we're all we're all challenged with, you know, abstention, and moderation and, and I really think that people in recovery, you know, as I say, in the book, our modern day profits for the rest of us kind of can show us how to live in this token saturated world. So just to finish off, then e of dopamine stands for experiment. That's where people go back out and implement what they've learned now with a pleasure pain pathway that's at the homeostatic level place. You know, so they can go out and have a better chance of being successful with moderation, or abstinence, or whatever it is.   Arlina Allen  49:39   Yeah. Thank you for going through that and being able to remember all the things you were super smart, I would not have been able to do that off the top of my head. A couple of questions came up from as you were going through that. So I just find it like such a paradox that you know, people with these use disorder. have such as high tolerance for pain on one hand like the consequences and on on the other hand we have such an in ability we have like this avoidance of emotional pain right and I just wonder I heard this I was watching this show things totally unrelated But anyway, I was watching the show called meat eater and this guy was talking about how and as a hunter, you know, human beings have something called shifting baseline syndrome. Have you ever heard of that idea? The idea is that as human evolution through human evolution or as societies change, we have good time feast and famine right? And so we have this ability to normalize lower standards of living, right and so in Alcoholics Anonymous that we talk about seeking lower companionship or like this is okay this is okay. Yeah, and so I was like that is so funny. But at the same time when it comes to paint like emotional pain tolerance, it feels like we're living in this really weird worldwide we're experiencing or we're creating all this pain for ourselves because we're you know, you drink in us you spend all your money and you're in all this pain and so what do you do you drink and use more to because you can't tolerate the pain you know, it's just such a weird place to be we have this and I feel like in all fairness that most people have an avoidance of emotional pain what are some of the ways I mean I feel like you know the great thing about a it was like we have community like it's a ready made community to help us get through emotional pain. I shared with you earlier that my mom is ill I just found out last week that she's terminally ill. And I'm not insensitive, and he might be a little bit maybe a little bit numb. But I have found I so I've been 27 years sober. It used to be if I got stood up on a date, I would go on a bender, like I couldn't tolerate it. Now I'm sober a long time. My mom is really sick. And it doesn't even occur to me to use what happened to my brain. From that, you know what I'm saying? It's like, yeah, oh, yeah. Now what happened to my brain?   Dr Anna Lembke  52:17   Well, I mean, your your brain is not any longer in that addiction cycle, your brain is at a homeostatic baseline. And it might even be tipped slightly to the side of pleasure such that you have the mental calluses and the resilience to withstand even enormously painful things like, you know, the potential loss of a loved one. Well, I'm again, I just think that thinking about the balance and the neurophysiology and that what happens when people are in their addiction loop is that they're essentially walking around with a pleasure pain balance tipped chronically to the side of pain, their dopamine transmission is at chronically lower levels. And so there's an enormous physiologic drive, to get their drug and to prioritize that drug over everything else, not to get high, but just to get out of pain and to feel normal. Whereas once you and that also means that even the nearest slight is going to make you feel more pain because you're already in this painful state. And that you know, what we call natural rewards, more modest rewards, food, clothing, shelter, a good conversation with a friend will no longer be adequate, right? Because you've got all these Gremlins camped out on the pain 10 pounds. Now you need a great big bolus of a supercharged potent drug, just to bring you level again. Whereas once you're in recovery, and you start to repair all of that and the Gremlins hop off and you start to upregulate, not just your own endogenous dopamine but also your endocannabinoid system, your endo opioid system, your serotonin or norepinephrine. Now you've got a pleasure pain balance, that's subtle, right? It's homeostatic it's level its sensitive, appropriately to small pleasures. It's sensitive to small pains but resilient enough to you know, quickly restore homeostasis in both directions. And you know, that's that's great. That's exactly where we want to be. Yeah, it   Arlina Allen  54:10   takes takes a lot of work takes a lot it does   Unknown Speaker  54:12   it takes a lot of vigilance and where it's you know, when you when I think about that pleasure, pain balance, it's sometimes I say it's like a teeter totter and a kid's playground, but really, it's more like a piece of plywood on a ball and you're standing on that piece and you're constantly having to move in order to keep in balance it's not a static process it's a really dynamic process that takes constant small adjustments   Arlina Allen  54:37   Yeah, and I'm glad you talked about that you're you know talking about balance and and and we only have a couple minutes and so I did want to touch on the scent. Thank you so much for writing this book. This was so such such an important book for people like me, who need to know why and need to know how and what to do about it right like we can we know ruminate on the problem. All day long, but I need to know what to do. Right? There are practical steps, tangible, practical, understandable, things to do to get better. And the idea is that and you did talk about like we can break our dopamine reward system, but you also said we can heal it. And that is the hope that this will give provides so much hope and like a real concrete, practical way that doesn't require like a you know, religion or you don't have to do like, like, I'm not knocking that at all right? Because I found that to be super helpful, but I don't know I'm a science girl at heart and I need to know why. I write I need to me, to me kind of girl at the end of the day, and at the end of the book on page 231 we're talking about your conclusion, which is the lessons of balance and you know, I've, you know, heard people say I think of balance is sort of a wide path that's not a razor's edge and I just gonna read under read you something that you wrote, you're like I already know. We all desire a respite from the world, a break from the impossible standards we often set for ourselves and others. It's natural that we would seek a reprieve from our own relentless ruminations. Oh, my God, the whole obsessive thinking, why did I do this? Why can't I do that? Look what they did to me? How could I do that to them? And then your question you pose is what if, instead of seeking oblivion by escaping from the world, we turn toward it? That is the challenge, right? That is the challenge is to, you know, Sheryl Sandberg said lean in, right, you know, but it's in the leaning in that, it we, you know, I'm always talking about let's process her resolution, right. And that requires leaning in,   Unknown Speaker  56:55   it does, yeah. And I think, you know, I mean, we're all seeking transcendence, and that loss of self, that non being where we're not ruminating and thinking about ourselves in the world, and, you know, escaping with drugs, or in my case in into fantasy novels, you know, is one way to do that, but not ultimately, a very adaptive way to do that, a better way to do that is actually to do the opposite. And really engage with the people around us with the life that we've been given, immerse ourselves in it. And when we invest in and immerse ourselves in, you know, in our real lives, they do become, you know, transcendental, they do take on a kind of luminous and numinous quality that's really enhancing that releases dopamine, but in a way that is enduring, and healthy. And so yeah, that's, I think, really the antidote to to to addiction, you know, instead of trying to run away, turn around, and immerse yourself in it.   Arlina Allen  57:57   That is the antidote simple, but not easy.   Unknown Speaker  57:59   That's not easy to do. Yeah, well, listen,   Arlina Allen  58:03   at the end of the day, that's why we all need each other. Right? You know, and, and I know from reading the book that you did your own work, and I really appreciated that about you, thank you for sharing those for your transparency and your vulnerability in the book of sharing your own, you know, struggles that you did your own work. So thank you. Thank you so much again, for this time, I'm so honored and and this was such an amazing book and where do people find? Find out more about you?   Unknown Speaker  58:32   Well, the book is available where books are sold, that's probably the best source of finding my work. It's also available on on Audible, as you mentioned, for people who'd rather listen than then read a physical book or a Kindle version. And then there's more about me on on Olympia calm or dopamine nation calm a website that was created for the book.   Arlina Allen  58:56   Listen, thank you so much for idea, tell Andrew I said “Hey”.   Unknown Speaker  59:03   All right. Yeah. Thank you so much.  

Please Subscribe For More Episodes!  Be sure to follow me on Instagram for daily inspiration: @odaatpodcast and @arlinaallen iTunes: https://apple.co/30g6ALF Spotify: https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify Stitcher: https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ YouTube Channel: https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo   Link to Judy's Book:  https://amzn.to/3DTeXet     Hello Loves, Thank you for downloading the podcast, my name is Arlina, and I’ll be your host.   In case we haven’t met yet, I am a certified Recovery Coach and Hypnotist. I am obsessed with all things recovery, including neuroscience, reprogramming the subconscious mind, law of attraction, all forms of personal growth and spirituality. I have been practicing abstinence from drugs and alcohol since 4/23/94, and that just goes to show, if I can do it, you can too.   Today I’m talking with Judith Grisel. She holds a PhD in Neuroscience, she’s a professor at Bucknell University and author of the highly impactful book “Never Enough: the Neuroscience and Experience of Addiction”   What is so interesting about her is that once she got sober, like a lot of us, she wanted to help others suffering from addiction, but she took it to a whole other level! She got her Phd in neuroscience to try to cure addiction! I’m so in awe of her.    This book is full of the mechanics and mechanisms of addiction which really takes the shame out of having mental illness because it demonstrates that anyone could fall prey to addiction. I listened to the audio version of the book, which, btw, I loved  because her voice is so soothing, but I also got the paperback because I wanted to really study some of the concepts she goes into. Plus there’s a few pictures in it so there’s that.   I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did! With that, please enjoy this episode with Judy.   Transcript: Arlina Allen  0:08   Let's see. Judy, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast. I'm really happy to be here. Arlina is it okay to call you, Judy? Oh, yes. Dr. Chris. No, please. Thank you. Well, listen, I am so excited to talk to you. I have your book. I posted on social media, I was like, I have a big announcement. And I'm talking to the author of never enough the neuroscience and experience of addiction. those that know me know that I'm completely obsessed with the mind the brain. I know sometimes people think of those as two different things, but we can kind of get into it. But what I thought was so good about this book, right? And what I love about science in general, is that it has a way when we you understand sort of the mechanics of it, it kind of depersonalized us and helps us to answer or resolve the things like guilt and shame which she which seemed to me to be a block or a barrier to healing. So I thought maybe we could start first with your a little bit of your story. Like what is I know you've been sober for 35 years? Congratulations.   Unknown Speaker  1:29   It is long time. Yeah. really grateful. Yeah, I it's funny that you mentioned guilt and shame, because I, I could see in my own life, how initially, drugs end up including alcohol were sort of the self or guilt and shame that was just it is still sort of deep in my bones. I'm not sure if it's genetic, or environmental or what, but I am, well acquainted with self criticism, and just, I guess, feelings of unworthiness. And I almost didn't realize that until I had my first drink, which was right about the time of my 13th birthday. And I was a good drink. I mean, I had little sips here and there, but I got loaded for the first time at that age. And more than anything else, it was this great relief, because I suddenly either didn't care or was made, you know, kind of transiently whole in a way that was so profound, so people talk about it all the time. But it did literally feel as if that absence was running over and you know, with fullness, I guess and so, I because I was off to the races pretty pretty dramatically. I grew up in a I guess there's no such thing as a typical home, but I was certainly fairly advantaged and you know, had no big traumas. I guess that's also kind of a funny thing to say. But you know, in light of how hard it is to grow up, I think I was fairly on the easy half anyway. And, but I got this alcohol, I spent 10 years taking as much of every single mind altering drug I could find. I remember one time I found some pills and I just, you know, took them, I was kind of, and I still am, I guess a little bit all or none so I, I was definitely I went from none to all. And as a result, I was kicked out of my first school in 10th grade. It was a, you know, girls Catholic school, so they didn't go for the kind of thing I was up to. And then to colleges I was expelled from and I was homeless intermittently, often, I contracted hepatitis C sharing dirty needles. And I hated myself really, I did hate myself that was probably my bottom was as kind of self loathing, so that I was just a teeny bit unwilling even though at the time, right around the time my 23rd birthday, I thought, drugs and alcohol were the solution to my problems of the cause. I was sort of willing to go to what I thought was going to be like a spa, an educational spa, which they was treatment. This was in the 80s so I had no idea about drug treatment at all. I just heard the word treatment and it seemed to be something I deserved. So anyhow, I ended up in what was more like a hospital for crazy adolescence and, and there without drugs in my body for a few weeks, I got kind of scared at the disaster of my life. And, and I guess I wasn't you know, it's an interesting thing as we talk about how we have to sort of see it and be willing to change. I was barely willing, I feel like I was kind of plucked out of my situation. And I had just enough grace or openness. I am sort of an experimentalist at heart. And I, I think I figured they were all saying to me from going on too much, by the way. Arlina But anyway, I was saying, you know, if you want to live, you're gonna have to quit using and I thought, No way. There's got to be another way work around. Yeah, work around, there's a backdoor somewhere. So I figured I would cure my addiction was going to take me seven years, I was going to stay clean for that seven years. Well, I solved the disease of addiction, which is what everybody was saying. And then I would use and so I was open minded and totally, you know, arrogant ignorance, naive, I don't know. But I, I was willing to do seven years, I guess,   Arlina Allen  6:26   what was the seven years to get your degree? You know,   Unknown Speaker  6:28   no, I think I wasn't thinking that clearly. I figured that I started when I was 13, I was 23, I decided I wasn't really in terrible shape, you know. So it was like seven years of intense addiction. Somehow it seemed balanced to me, if I could clear it up in seven years, and then there was just no way you were gonna tell me, I was going to spend the rest of my life without drugs, which is what my life is completely about by that time. So yeah, I was scared enough to be willing enough to be open enough to try a different way temporarily. And I remember when seven years came, by the way, and went and I looked around my life was a zillion times better. It wasn't, you know, easy, by any means. But it was definitely better. And my curiosity had kind of come back. And so I, you know, kind of a data time is, you know, stuck it out. And so here I am, 35 years clean and sober, still have not cured addiction, still very interested in the role of science in understanding and treating and preventing addiction, but also recognize that there's a lot that science doesn't know. And so, yeah, I think, yeah, it's been a it's been a fun, rich trip.   Arlina Allen  8:07   It's fun. That's, that's awesome. I mean, we were people who insist on having a time that's for sure. I think that's so amazing that so so you became abstinent at 23. From then on, he became abstinent.   Unknown Speaker  8:22   I mean, I smoked a few cigarettes and I'm completely addicted to coffee, but I don't think that his account had other than nicotine, any mind altering chemicals, and I've been tempted many times, so it's not like I just said, you know, that's it for me, I guess. Yeah, just a long, long time.   Arlina Allen  8:46   You know, I knew that you and I were going to be friends when you talked in your book about like, the your love of weed. Oh, my gosh, if I there was a period of time that if I was awake, I was high. Right? I grew up in the church and the preacher's daughter. The pastor's daughter once told me she's like, I'm high. So often that not being high was as my altered reality. And I was like, Oh, my God, you're my hero. I want to be just like you. And I was. But in your book, you talk about how I see after I got sober. It took me a little over a year to go a single day without wishing for a drink. That is rough. But it was more than nine years before my craving to get high abated during that, and I think I'm so glad that you've mentioned that because I think a lot of people especially those who are 12, step oriented, are you know, they hear stories about like, the obsession to use is lifted, or they're on this pink cloud. And I think for people who don't have that experience, they feel They're doing something wrong. Right. But   Unknown Speaker  10:02   I think for Bill Wilson, right, it was just an overnight thing. And for many of us, it's sometimes slowly and for I was definitely have a slow variety. I, I really, and when I say, you know, for the craving to abate, I really seriously wish to get high for most days, those nine years. Yeah. And I, you know, the more time that went by the more, I could see what was at risk. So when I first got clean, you know, there's nothing to lose, because you're at rock bottom. But, you know, as a result of putting one foot in front of the other things got much better. So, you know, then I could kind of see that, and then I remember so well, I can almost taste it the experience of not wanting to smoke, and I can remember how all the sudden, I was okay to be in concerts that were indoors with good weed around me. Or, you know, I was sort of indifferent. Like I was like, I had been to alcohol. You know, I'm, I have served alcohol to friends. And I was kind of in that position, like, I don't care if you smoke or not. And then it got I had the craving come back. I was, I was joke about this, but right around menopause. I just knew that, for me, an antidote to the anxiety and just sort of the brittle angst of hormonal changes, I guess was going, you know, could be smoking. And, you know, anxiety is so epidemic, and I hadn't really had a ton of it until, and there was other things going on in the world, we can just say at that. But, anyhow, oh my gosh, and I think I say this in the book, too. But I, I, at the time, I was thinking maybe I'll get cancer and my doctors make me smoke. And then little I do you know, I mean, I was wishing for, you know, some kind of serious illness. So   Arlina Allen  12:23   our minds play funny tricks on us, it doesn't matter how long you're sober. It's just weird layer. If that was ever a solution in your mind. I've heard that dopamine is like the Save button. Right? I don't know if you've ever heard of Dr. Andrew Haberman, he talks about how in nature like a deer that will find water, they get like dopamine is released. And that's how they remember where the water is. And it's almost similar for us. Like when we do something that makes us feel good. Dopamine is then released. And it helps us to remember what made us feel good. And I feel like it's burned in my psyche that if I take a bomb hat that I'm going to feel good. And I have other solutions, but it's all it's I don't think that idea is ever gonna leave me, you know, 27 years sober. I was telling you earlier that my younger son went to rehab. And this all was predicated because we found a Bag of Weed in his room and duty, I had not held a bag of marijuana for almost 30 years. And when it was in my hand, this plastic baggie, it was like I was a teenager again. And my inner drug addict was like, well, maybe we should, maybe we could maybe maybe. And I was like, I was actually a little alarmed almost a little bit of shame. Like seriously, after all this time, after all the work I've done. It's still there. I mean, it's just so engrained in my brain, I guess.   Unknown Speaker  14:00   Absolutely. And I think the one of the interesting things about the story, you just told us that the ability of a drug to make to release dopamine is different across the population. So for some people, that marijuana let's say, or alcohol doesn't do much to that for me, and for other people. It's really a potent signal. And I think that is part of the reason some of us are more at risk than others and and also the reason why it's not a really reasonable argument to say, you know, why don't they just put it down because it is like a thirsty person finding water as opposed to somebody who's completely satisfied finding water, you know, you can take it or leave it. So I think that's true. And also the brain. You know, learning is absolutely persistent. So Pretty sure we will both be I guess subject to those kinds of, you know, triggers through our until we die.   Arlina Allen  15:11   Yeah, maybe, maybe this is a good time to ask you, you know, what is what's different in that? So you're you have your PhD in neuroscience. And you know, he got sober and went on this quest to cure addiction. What have you found that's different about the brain of people who get addicted so quickly?   Unknown Speaker  15:34   Mm hmm. Well, I guess the, what I want to say first is that it's not simple, I thought I was gonna be a little switch that we were going to discover, and I wasn't alone in this, I think this was scientific understanding in the 80s, we'll find that, you know, broken switch or molecule or circuit and fix it. It's definitely not that way. So the causes of addiction are very complex and intersectional. They involve differences in dopamine and other genetic liabilities, or protective factors that make the the initial sensitivity to a drug, different across different people. So some try a drug for the first time and absolutely love it. About a third of people, for instance, try opiates and don't like them at all. And they usually try them in the doctor's office, but they find them aversive. So obviously, that's a good protective,   Arlina Allen  16:40   meaning, meaning they don't like the way they feel. Yeah, so weird to me,   Unknown Speaker  16:45   largely genetic. I know. Right? So very big individual differences. And then there are sex differences. So women tend to appreciate drugs that provide relief. And then justice is overgeneralizing a little bit Sure, overall, tend to appreciate drugs that make them feel good. And so women don't want to feel bad, and drugs help with that, certainly, especially and men like to feel good. Another big factor, and probably the largest factor more than genetic liability is adolescent exposure. So kids, like your son and my daughter are tuned into Well, they have, they have a particular kind of brain that is the adolescent brain that is really prone to trying new things, really prone to not worrying is certainly abstractly worrying about consequences. So they're less cautious. And they, they want to buck against whatever they're told, they shouldn't do. And those three traits like novelty seeking, and risk taking, and not really caring about consequences are ones that help them to become adults, if they just listened to their parents until they were 35. No one would really like that. So they they're designed to kind of say, not this, you know, I'm making my own way, which would be good if there wasn't so many high potency, dangerous ways of escaping at their fingertips. So I think through most of our evolutionary history, these you know, kids having that tendency is is no problem. The other thing that kids have in their brains are different about is that, and we all know this, they are terrific at learning. I'm teacher, and it's crazy, because and you probably noticed this with your own children, but they don't seem to even be paying attention. yet. They are like sponges information really goes in. And if they were learning French, or if they're learning addiction, both ways, their brain is really quick to take the experience and build it into the structures so that it's lasting, and I can learn French, or addiction, but your chances are so much lower. So if you start using any addictive drug, before you're 18 you have about a 25% chance of developing a substance use disorder. And the earlier you start using, the higher the chance, I started 13 so you know it was basically more likely than not. And that's because 13 year olds are great at picking up new information, much better than 33 year olds. So they if you if you Wait, on the other hand till you're 21, your chances are one in 25.   Arlina Allen  20:06   Wow, I told   Unknown Speaker  20:07   my kids that and I tell my students that and they all ignore me. Why? Because they're high novelty seeking high risk taking, and they don't really want to listen to the, you know, concerns or worries. I mean, that's not how they're designed. So we're in a kind of a perfect storm for them. And that, that is the best predictor of developing a problem starting early is starting or like,   Arlina Allen  20:30   you know what terrifies me nowadays I have a nephew who's 26 years old. And he's had four friends died from accidental fentanyl overdose, because for whatever reason, drug dealers are putting fentanyl and everything. And you know, these are pretty well adjusted kids. I don't think it's I know that there's a certain percentage of the population who indulge a little bit who don't have a disorder. Or maybe that's Yeah, is that is that true?   Unknown Speaker  21:02   Well, it's, it's more true if you start at 26. And if you start at 16, as I just said, but I think the reason that nose and everything is because it is so is it a traffic, it's so so potent, that a tiny bit can get the whole town high. So it's really advantageous to traffickers. And also, because people are having access to more and more chemicals. And when they start early, especially their reward pathway, the dopamine pathway we've been talking about is kind of desensitized, so they can't, you know, have a cup of wine coolers that doesn't do the trick at all anymore, they need something a little more, because they're sort of immune to the that dopamine, squirt? So yeah, unfortunately, I think that's another reason it's not gonna. We, I think focus, we've also noticed lately that there's more and more overdoses from methamphetamine, and then from somebody who's been looking at the trends for a long time, it's always be something and there's always going to be more potent, whatever. So it's not the drug itself, as much as this very narrow ledge that more and more of us are on trying to, I guess, medicate reality. And and so, you know, I think, I don't know how that is for your nephew. But it's a terrible lesson to have to learn for all of us.   Arlina Allen  22:51   It's just, it just makes me sick. I mean, I think there was a report that was released, I think it was at the end of March, there was a 12 year period that they were measuring overdoses that ended in March, and I think they track like 80,000 deaths. And, and I just think about all the families like all the mothers, all the all the fathers and siblings, and just everybody that's affected by so many deaths, and   Unknown Speaker  23:19   and I think a 40% increase in those deaths over the last year with COVID. So the isolation as Alicia is, has made, and also the the higher, you know, the more likely you are to find fentanyl, and whatever it is you're taking at, which is just hard to prepare for I think, biologically. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's, it's tragic. It's so tragic.   Arlina Allen  23:50   And then and then so my mind naturally goes, Well, what can we do about it? You know, it's like, we can understand, I love how, you know, science will sort of break down the mechanics. And once we understand, you know, alcohol is addictive drugs are addictive. I mean, there's a reason why they're illegal, right? It's because they're so harmful. But, you know, and then we can get into the causes, right? Like you mentioned, it's a very complex issue, you know, we you mentioned, do you that you didn't have any big trauma growing up, but I feel like, you know, we were sort of in that generation where we were not like things like ADHD and anxiety and depression weren't really talked about a whole lot. And we really didn't know how to treat those. And so our parents handled us with a lot of tough love. I got a lot of tough love and you know, from reading your book and listening to your interviews, it sounds like you were raised with that as well. And then your Can we just talk a little bit about your dad, like I wonder what it was. We talk a lot about science and it sort of leaves God out a little bit. But in my experience, it feels like there are things that are sort of serendipitous or magical about the unusual things that happen that lead us to a life of recovery. Like, what was your dad's role and your recovery?   Unknown Speaker  25:23   Um, yeah. So, so much in that question, especially, I guess I want to start by saying that I agree that we did not recognize trauma, and anxiety and all mental illnesses, wait, their response was, was so different, I think. And in my house, it was to push through both my father's parents were immigrants. And he dealt with life by controlling everything he could. And that worked great until he, you know, met 13 year old me. And I was absolutely out of control, by definition, and   Arlina Allen  26:11   he would have been terrifying to me.   Unknown Speaker  26:13   I was terrified. And I was I was, like, determinately, out of control. I mean, that was my goal to be absolutely out of control. And the more both my parents tried to kind of constrain me, the less manageable I was, and I guess I, I don't think I'm unique in this. I mean, I've raised three children. And so it's something built into the teenage neurobiology. And I had it probably in spades. So his way of life because   Arlina Allen  26:45   you're smart, smart kids are harder to race.   Unknown Speaker  26:48   I don't know. I'm also, one thing I like about myself more than if I have any smartness is, is that I'm, I guess, strong willed. And so I don't know if that actually goes with intelligence or not, but I'm not the one who's following so much. And so I wasn't named, I wasn't influenced really by too much of what people, you know, just like you said, you know, you try to get the information out. Drugs are dangerous, but it doesn't really have an impact my kids have grown up with man, they've been sort of forced to look at graphs and things. And, you know, they'll say to me, my daughter said to me the other day, you know, I know all this. But and that is sort of how I was, and I didn't know that much. My mother was giving me a reader's digest reprints you know, of how lead would damage your ovaries and stuff. But anyway, you're like,   Arlina Allen  27:49   Oh, good, I will get pregnant.   Unknown Speaker  27:51   No, I didn't. Yeah, wasn't on my radar at all. But anyhow, my father, because I think it was so painful to be around me. And to watch me his strategy, which is kind of in our family, I guess, was just denial that he even had a daughter. So during a period, after they kicked me out of the house, right about my 10th birthday. He, he would, and he would say that he had two sons. It was just too much for him. And this is kind of the way he is. So it's, and I think it's fragile. That's what he was. And he was raised to be fragile, because it was a lot to worry about, because they were poor immigrants and you know, a million ways to not make it and I think that's common for a lot of people today. So my father was just able to block it out. And we have a family friend who I dedicated the book to father, Marty Devereaux, who is this kind of an unbelievable, interesting person. He's in his 80s. Now, we're still good friends, but he is a psychologist, and has a lot of experience with addiction and also a Catholic priest. And he told my father, and don't my father's not really Catholic. I mean, he was raised Catholic, but that doesn't mean too much these days. So anyway, he   Arlina Allen  29:19   Where was he from? Marty Devereaux?   No, I'm sorry. Your said Your father was an immigrant. Oh,   Unknown Speaker  29:24   he was born in Atlantic City. But his mother was from Slovenia, and his father from Switzerland. And they met in Central Park. They were both, you know, one was a baker one was a housecleaner. And they sent two sons to college and wow. Yeah, I mean, you know, I think it's a pretty typical American story. Yeah, yeah. But um, anyway, Marty said take her out to dinner and bring her flowers like on a date. Well, I have No idea what how my father did this because he's, he's just not the type to waste any money on flowers, or two. And I was when I say I think I tried to convey this in the book. But when I imagined myself now at that moment, I was pretty deplorable. I was probably quite smelly and dirty. I was, at this point, sort of living in a one bedroom apartment with many people. And I was pretty gross. So anyway, this is when you were 23. I was not quite 23. So his takeaway? Yeah, so we he picked me up and you know, so not only was I gross, I was completely belligerent. I, I thought that my parents were terrible. And I didn't want any part of their fascist, you know, existence. And yet, I deserved a nice dinner, of course. So my big dilemma, I will not I really can still almost feel this was how we were going for early bird dinner, because it's my dad. And I'm very frugal. Yeah, he is wealthy and frugal. And   Arlina Allen  31:27   that's how I get wealthy.   Unknown Speaker  31:28   Yeah, I mean, this is sort of the first thing I guess. But anyway,   Arlina Allen  31:32   and that was a dad begged my dad, maybe it is a dead   Unknown Speaker  31:35   thing. He was also an airline pilot, so just not extremely cautious. He still is. And he's, he's in his 80s today, and we have a great relationship. But anyway, I was so stuck, because when he was picking me up, maybe quarter to five, but I had to figure out between 11 when I woke up and six hours later, how to be not too high when he came, you know, high enough, but not too high. And of course, this is harder and harder to achieve at this point in my life, because I could either be passed out or getting ready to be I mean, it was just hard to find that place. So anyway, he picks me up, he takes me out. And he said, and we talked about this still. Dude, I just wanting you to be happy. And I guess I should say, he doesn't remember saying that. But I know he said it. Because it was the most unlikely words that could ever come. And this is sort of what you were getting at, I guess where did those words come from? They're not my dad. My dad was worried about my teeth and the way you know, a lot of things but not my happiness ever. No, probably it's hard for him. And I had of course, no. No adequate response to that because I was absolutely miserable. And it went right into my heart. I fell apart. Yeah, it was a funny like tears   Arlina Allen  33:10   in my eyes. Just to think that the hard ass dad was so sweet, right? When you needed it the most. I know,   Unknown Speaker  33:17   you know what he tells me now it's funny. He, I was so out of it. I guess I don't remember the flowers. But he took me in his very clean car and my friends I guess to the beach to go for a swim that same day, that same after dinner. And we got to fill the sand. And that's what he remembers as his biggest stretch. And what I remember as his biggest stretch is him reaching across the table with his heart and saying, I want you to live basically. I mean, he sent me how I think he he met a lot by that. And my mother was not invited to the dinner. I hadn't spoken with her in a long time either. But she had been researching treatment centers for years she had had a court order actually in Florida, there's an act where you can commit somebody because of their addictions. And they thought over that a lot. But anyway, next thing I knew they flew me to a treatment center, which of course I had no idea what I was getting into and saved my life really. That place did. So I feel really fortunate that I had that opportunity to wake up a little bit as I think for the chances are that my father wouldn't have said that my mother wouldn't have had the resources to know what to do and I would have died on the streets probably not too much longer.   Arlina Allen  34:52   I feel like that really speaks to you know, people just didn't have solutions, right and they get so far straighted that their only choice is to disown right. Like I had that same experience with my mom, she disowned me on a regular basis, like she was an immigrant from Mexico. And although my father was, you know, his, his people have been here a long time. Like, they didn't know what to do with me either. And, you know, my dad was always the sweet and nurturing one, but he was, you know, he's former Marine, he was a government guy, he was kind of a hard ass, and in a lot of respects, but, you know, our parents, you know, just, it's just speaks to the love of a parent, you know, you want to save your kids. You know, you see your kids are suffering and like, my mother just didn't know how she was so frustrated that she would disown me on a regular basis. But I think when I think it's the contrast between like, a little bit of sweetness goes a long way, because it's not what we're used to. It's so shocking. Like, shocking to the system,   Unknown Speaker  36:00   let's thought about it a lot, because I do think there's a, I had a boyfriend at the time who died. Oh, overdose. And his parents were extremely sweet. So it's hard. And you could say they sweeted him into his last big use, but um, I don't know that there's a recipe I think if if there was one thing that, that I tried to do with is to show up and be honest, and I think it was so painful for my parents, both of my parents to just grapple with what happened to their little girl, that their tendency was to not show up. And I don't blame them. I mean, it's it's tough. It's tough raising teenagers sometimes because they're not that it's almost unrecognizable, you know, from the sweet nine year olds, or the 99 might become, but I think what we're called to do for each other is to tell the truth, not their truth. You know, I don't you know, you're speaking from him first himself. He said, Yeah, I was. I mean, I think this was true for him, I think, really at the core, and somehow he had the grace to find it. What all he really wants and all, probably any parent wants their kid to be well, and whatever well looks like for us. And I think the fact that he could say that was kind of miraculous.   Arlina Allen  37:42   Very, yeah, that was absolutely. sneak up for Marty, right?   Unknown Speaker  37:47   Yeah, yeah. Exactly. No, I   Arlina Allen  37:50   think yeah, it's, it's just, yeah, my mom was, she was really tough. And I remember growing up, she's going through her second divorce. And all my hair started falling out, like a lot I was under, and nobody knew what was going on. And you know, when it ended is one day, she let me curl up in her lap and cry. I had a good cry. And then my hair stopped falling out after that. Wow. Yeah. And I think it was like, there needs to be this balance. Like I feel like as a parent I attend like we tell our kids that we love them all the time. And I almost feel like maybe we maybe it's a little too much sweetness. You know, I have I have the the hard ass edge me because I think I inherited that from my mom. But you know it when you get something different from your parent, it is kind of jolting. It is kind of healing, it can be life changing, if it's different. So if you're sweet all the time, when you show up with boundaries that can be jolting. When you're a hard ass your whole life and you show up with a little bit of sweetness. It can be start, it's like a pattern interrupt, you know that. It's just kind of interesting. And I wanted to ask you a little bit   Unknown Speaker  39:09   of a story, by the way. But your mother obviously was disappointed, you know, and her own struggles, but that she was able to be with you. And warning I think that is really a bridge.   Arlina Allen  39:28   That was it made me feel you know, like the talk about original wounds, like I don't matter, or I'm unlovable because I'm either too much or not good enough. Right. Or maybe that I'm alone, you know, those original wounds, and I feel like I had all those but my mom, you know, in that moment, it's like those, like that moment that your dad had like they were willing to do something different. Like they had a glimmer of hope, like somebody gave them hope and they decided to do something different. And that's kind of what But you said your dad reached across the table with his heart, you know, and it was like, there is something that's transmitted, like when people are really vulnerable and honest and coming from their heart. That's so healing. Right? And I feel like that's a lot of what recovery has been about for me is that just that willing to be vulnerable and have a degree of humility, it's a lot of times kind of, like forced humility. It's like, like, I have to get honest about what what's really going on, so that I can get the solution. But you know, as a parent, you know, we're talking about our kids, and how do we reach our kids, because I think that's, you know, in this day and age, a lot of us that have had addiction issues, you know, we're worried about passing it down to our kids. And we thought we were talking earlier about leading by example, right, we need to lead by example for our kids, and it's so hard to know, I felt like we're walking this fine line. Because, you know, kids commit suicide all the time, like, you know, and the, there's all these ideas, like kids are like, a very aware of anxiety and depression, and being socially awkward, and there seems to be, you know, and as a parent, it's like, you want to encourage them to get help and take responsibility for their feelings at the same time, you don't want to push them too hard, because that is the ultimate threat is that they will commit suicide. Right. And it's, and I know that they're taking drugs to medicate, I took drugs to medicate. And I used to say that, you know, drugs, drugs, were my savior for a long time. If, if I had to feel, you know, especially those young years 1415 if I had to feel all the feelings, because I didn't have any coping skills, I don't know that I would have survived. So, you know, I know you've been trying to cure addiction, and what are some of the things that, you know, besides leading by example, for our kids, how can we, how do we, how do we fix this duty? How do we,   Unknown Speaker  42:08   I think we show up for each other is to start I don't know. But I, I do feel, and everybody says this, I guess every generation notices this, but I do think it is an inordinately challenging time to be growing up. I was saying to a student in my office, not too long ago, you know, if you're not anxious, you're crazy. Because and crazy is probably not the right word for Psychology at it. You know, and here I am a psychologist, I'm not all that correct times. But I think that you at least if you're not anxious, and you're growing up right now, you're somehow blind and deaf, or in denial, yeah, or in a massive denial, which I don't even know, I think that I think what's different, and what shifted for my dad, and what continues to be something that I work on, is to respond to all this pain, the natural response is to sort of curl up and close in, and to hide, and to take ourselves away. And as addicts you know, I still have a great capacity for denial that I have to check all the time. But I also found many tools to use. And that's why drugs are so compelling, because it was like, boom, you know, you've got a 10 foot wall now, between you and any realities, are safe and cozy, and delightful. And I think kids find drugs, you know, to do the same thing, but they also are stuck in a way because face it, that it's a tear, it's a hard time for any of us to be on the planet. And there's not a lot of great models of going through that awake and an honest and I guess, you know, I just try to put myself in the position of a nine year old, knowing, you know, probably on Instagram and every other thing, you know, how much suffering there is or is about to be. And then seeing the many ways, drugs and other ways that adults around are medicating and escaping. And even though you and I have been able to put down drugs, I think, at least for me, I guess I can still do want I naturally want to distance myself. And I don't I think that is a way to kind of abandon the nine year olds. I don't know how old you were when you're here was five out but I think as about maybe than nine or 10 Yeah, the metaphor is put our heads on each other's laps and, and just cry, you know, cry or or whimper or hope or try or touch each other I think in touch each other in the in the true spot where there is anxiety and depression and fear because if we can't do that and there's so many opportunities to escape I you know we're in a kind of a vortex going down the drain here because the more we escaped the worst things grow around us because we don't have to deal with them. And then the young people see oh my gosh, it's, you know, this is a crazy house. This being Earth. So I, I think or your family, I suppose but I, I guess we're both your mother and my father were able to do was recognize, you know, the truest piece of themselves and their children and respond honestly. Yeah. And that sometimes that might be kindness, sometimes that might not be kindness. But I think it's honesty, that's the, the, the thing we're really lacking or, or, you know, maybe the, the lifesaver would be Yeah,   Arlina Allen  46:44   I think in that moment, there was, you know, a high degree of empathy. Bernie Brown is a shame researcher, she talks about empathy is the antidote to shame. Right? I've heard people say that, you know, this is a disease of isolation and connection is the cure. And you know, I really feel like connection is one of those one of those solutions to all this, like, we need to connect with each other. We're, you know, as human beings, we actually really need each other.   Unknown Speaker  47:15   Oh, my goodness, yeah.   Arlina Allen  47:17   Yeah, I need to be around easily cope with stress   Unknown Speaker  47:20   is by social support. And there's tons of evidence that social support, not only mitigates, but also reverses the effects of stress. And it is, you know, surely a big part of, of getting better as individuals and also as communities and families, I think, recognizing that and it's tough because my parents kicked me out your your mother disowned you. And partly for me that facing the consequences of my decisions was helpful. But I do think that's harder because fentanyl wasn't around. You know, you you don't want to face them in the ultimate, you know, right, way too early. So I guess as parents we, we try to block a very tough line these weird. Yeah, it is hard.   Arlina Allen  48:23   Yeah. But I'm glad to hear that there's evidence that shows that social support mitigates and reverses stress, that's amazing. It kind of confirms everything that we knew, right? Like, we got sober we got social support, we, you know, had lots of people who had done it before us so learning by example, I hear that hope I've heard hope is hearing other people's experiences, which is why I do the podcast right? You know, people that listen, go Okay, you know, we can talk about the mechanics how, how the brain works, and all that and how it's affected by alcohol. And you know why it's a bad idea. But then hearing about like the turning point, like when your dad reached out to you, and you were at that place where I'm sure you had you were sick and tired of being sick and tired. Ready, just ready enough, you talk about just having just a tiny bit of willingness. It's a little chink in the armor. How long were you in that? That rehab in the 80s   Unknown Speaker  49:29   I was in for 20 days, which seemed like nine years and then I was in a halfway house for three months, which I calculated at the time so I know this is true was 1/27 of my life or something. I forget how I did that or something like that. I had some kind of crazy mula totally a rip off. I was so furious. But I, I was, like I say at the turning point, and there's been so many times, you know, I know where things are. Lena, we're talking about openness. And I think one way I could be honest, is to say, even after setting addiction for 35 years, and having all this personal and scientific experience, I still need to be open to all I don't know. And certainty is a lie, you know, certainty is the biggest illusion. And so here we are kind of trying to get through. And I think that is what I first had in my I was very certain until I'm in the treatment center. And I'm asked to try a different way. And I was troubled, because on one way I went, and I could see my way was not going great. Like it was really not going well. And I could see that without the drugs, you know, for a few weeks. But to do an another way that was extremely vague and chancy, and, you know, just seemed really crazy. To me. I was just stuck. And that, like you say this, just a tiny bit willing to say, I don't know. And, okay, you know, and this is a still, I think where I am I one of the things I love about recovery the most is that it is always different. And, you know, I thought that drugs were gonna give me this great, you know, every day is a big surprise, you know, who knows if it's the cops or that whatever. It just turned out to be adrenaline, but it was a grind, it was not really novel or interesting. And in fact, 35 years later, I'm I'm just astounded by how much mystery there is, in any day. It's just breathtaking. So I guess that I have to show up for that, you know, I have to not buy into the lie that I know exactly what I'm doing. Right?   Arlina Allen  52:20   I think the more we learn, the more we realize we don't know, a lot. You know, yeah, that is a I do love that about recovery is that every day is kind of new again, you know, and that we don't have to, and there's so much interesting research going on. Now I know that, you know, and I didn't I feel like we're running out of time, but that there is so much research now on helping people with chronic addiction through things like psychedelics. It's just like, you know, I I practice abstinence. So that's, let's face it, my life is fine. Like I don't, you know, need that. But for the chronic alcoholic who meets some criteria of like, you know, post traumatic stress disorder, and things like that. I know, Johns Hopkins is doing some interesting studies about that. That Yeah, there's still so much to learn about, about the brain and addiction and how to help people. Where do you see the focus of your work in the next, I don't know, five to 10 years?   Unknown Speaker  53:28   Well, can I just respond to this thing about the psychedelic so   Arlina Allen  53:33   Oh, sure. Yeah, cuz Yeah, you wrote a lot about it, and you're But well, I read some about   Unknown Speaker  53:36   And I think it's congruent with what other people are writing to that it may be those drugs may be a useful tool. But it reminds me that they go back to what you were saying earlier, the the benefit of those drugs is in their ability to help us connect with something bigger than ourselves, you know, which could be the love of other people. And I think that it reminds me that every drug is only doing nothing new, it's a total we have the capacity to do ourselves. So the way the pharmacology goes is that drugs work by exploiting pathways we already have. So in a way, this opportunity for transcending ourselves to connection with others, maybe helped by psychedelics, but those are not the answer. The answer is transcending ourselves by connecting with ourselves in something bigger than ourselves. So I would say that what I'm working on now Well, I there's so much that I am excited to do I wish I could stay up later, but I've got my research lab going. I'm studying sex differences in addiction. I'm also studying initial responses. to drugs and I'm interested in the genetic difference, individual differences that are mediated by an interaction of genes and say stress or other kinds of environmental influences. But I'm also hoping to write another book and I have this is funny because I'm, I don't really consider myself the book writing type, I'm kind of like the short, quick, get it done thing. And the first book took 10 years. So I don't have that a 10 years. I know so sad. Because I was busy, I was raising children and I was trying to get grants and we're, you know, grade papers and all that. So I can't do that, again, I don't, I have three books, so I'm probably not going to live long enough. So three books I want to write and I have a sabbatical coming up. And I'm hoping that I will have an opportunity to spend the year getting at least one of those out either on the adolescent vulnerability to addiction or on sex differences in the causes and consequences of addictive drugs, or just a kind of more philosophical take on. Because so a response to the opportunity that everybody alive on the planet has today to take substances and just as you were saying, sometimes for some people, those and some substances might be beneficial, and sometimes not. And I think that understanding and sort of finding your way to a personal ethic of how, what drugs in my life requires and appreciation of science, but also of you know, our honest assessment of who and where we are our development and what drugs are doing for instance, I this is just a little thing, but I read the other day that the marijuana industry is really exacerbating the droughts on the west coast. And that is a sort of a dilemma for this idea. And I mean, I I think there may be benefits also, but you know, it's not that our choices, if we know anything in October of 2021, we realize that our individual choices have impact on others, and so and on ourselves. So I guess I want to just consider that and not in a you know, there's a lot that can be said about it. So anyway, I'm excited about all those things. Who knows what tomorrow will bring, but I'm hoping to take a break from teaching it's been a tough year and a half with COVID Yeah, routines and yeah, yeah, I think we're all kind of hobbling through   Arlina Allen  58:03   Yeah, my heart goes out to all the teachers I know it's just been it's we're living in through unprecedented time so I really so grateful to all the teachers who've been able to hack it out and help our kids right it's it's really important work. You know, they I think they need as many people in their corner as they can get. So thank you for hanging it out and being available to all these kids. But I am so excited about your your book projects. I will personally be rooting for the one about adolescence.   Unknown Speaker  58:38   Me too, that one almost could write itself the data, you know, in the last 1520 years are overwhelming. And so it's really a good time to get that out. And, and adolescents are like sitting ducks today. And that is not their problem. That's all of our problem.   Arlina Allen  59:00   Oh yeah, they're our future. Right? I remember people saying that about us. Listen, thank you so much for your time today. When you get done with that book. You come on back and we'll talk about that one too.   Unknown Speaker  59:13   Okay. Arlina Thank you for having me. It's been really nice. Yeah, such   Arlina Allen  59:16   a pleasure. We'll talk soon thanks. Bye bye.

Please Subscribe For More Episodes!   iTunes: https://apple.co/30g6ALF Spotify: https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify Stitcher: https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ YouTube Channel: https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo Be sure to follow me on Instagram for daily inspiration: @odaatpodcast and @arlinaallen   Connect with Jolene Park Visit Jolene’s Website: https://grayareadrinkers.com/ Follow Jolene on Instagram @jolene_park Watch Jolene’s TEDx talk: https://www.healthydiscoveries.com/tedx-talk/      The Lightning Round    Book recommendations:  Drinking, A Love Story, by Caroline Knapp Many Roads, One Journey: Moving Beyond the Twelve Steps, by Charlotte Kasl Favorite Quote: “This too shall pass” Regular Self-Care Practice: Grounding - walking barefoot on the beach, breathwork, somatic work, and healthy eating. Transcript:  Arlina Allen  2:56   Jolene, thank you so much for joining me today.   Jolene Park  3:03   Thanks for having me I'm I'm really looking forward to chatting with you and getting to know you a little bit more in the studio.   Arlina Allen  3:09    Listen, I appreciate somebody who has done their own work and who has a lot of credibility. Can I just say that to you?   Unknown Speaker  3:20   Thank you. I received that and appreciate that and feel the exact same way so I'm with you. Yeah,   Arlina Allen  3:27   we were just okay, I'm not gonna go into a rant, but maybe just a tiny little soapbox. You know, little cautionary tale. There's, there's a while I love how open people are being with their recovery. I just really appreciate people who have done their own work, right? So and you'll hear it I listen, I can sniff it out in two seconds. If I'm talking to someone who has not done their own work. And I've listened, I've listened to your TED Talk, your other interviews, there's lots of really good quality stuff that you've been putting out that I really appreciate. Because you are rooted in logic, which is nice. You got a lot of science going on. I love me some science. So we'll talk about all the stuff all the things, but just for fun. Do you hear my dog barking? Yeah, one second. I'm so sorry.   Unknown Speaker  4:54   Oh, I think you're still muted. Ah, here we go.   Arlina Allen  5:02   Okay, I had to go. Let my I have an English bulldog named named Teddy had to let him out. Did you know that Dr. Andrew Huberman has an English bulldog?   Unknown Speaker  5:11   I mean, his dog is no castellet. Well, long videos watch. Yeah, yeah. Costello was Costello   Arlina Allen  5:18   okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so we were totally   Unknown Speaker  5:23   embarrassed that I know that but I might make you vermin fans.   Arlina Allen  5:27   Me, too. Oh my God. He's talking about him all the time. I digress. Sorry about that, I will have to edit that little part out. What I where I thought we would start is just kind of a fun little lightning round. It's a fun little icebreaker. When you first started your journey to do you call it do how do you refer to it your alcohol free journey, your sobriety journey?   Unknown Speaker  5:53   alcohol free is what I use most. But you know, I'll interchange sobriety here and there, but in general, I, you know, I'll the term alcohol free is what I'm most comfortable with.   Arlina Allen  6:05   Okay, cool. Yeah. I mean, it's so interesting, you know, over the years, you know, when people were first talking about getting sober, it was all about alcoholism. Right. And you and I know now that the DSM five doesn't even recognize that term anymore. It's alcohol use disorder. So which I appreciate because that sort of speaks to the spectrum. Right? There's an Oh, you're going to talk about this too. I'm not gonna steal your thunder here. But um, but yes, so when you started your alcohol free journey, were there particular books that you found really helpful?   Unknown Speaker  6:42   Oh, what a fun question.   Arlina Allen  6:45   I am obsessive when it comes to books.   Unknown Speaker  6:48   Yeah. Because you know, when I started my journey, and Anna Grace's book was not out. Oh, okay. Unexpected joy of getting sober. You know, all of these these books, the sober diaries by Claire Pouliot. None of those. They all came after I quit drinking. Yeah, me too. So yeah, this is a really fun question. Kind of, you know, pre this big Instagram boom, about talking about alcohol free. I definitely read Carolyn naps book, the drinking love story. Have you? Have you read her memoir?   Arlina Allen  7:20   I haven't. That also came out after I got sober. I heard that people read the books that came out when they got sober, or became alcohol free.   Unknown Speaker  7:31   She wrote her book. I think it was in the 90s and the 90s. Yeah, okay. Yeah, she was an early, early one. And her writing is just exquisite. I mean, it's so visceral and it pulls you out. I mean, it almost it's called drinking a love story. And she really romanticizes the drink and she had an absolute 100% you know, drinking problem, but her writing is just mesmerizing. So I read her memoir a couple times. But you know, who I knew about early on to was Charlotte, I think it's castle, k s L, I never know how to say her last name. And she wrote the book moving beyond the 12 steps, many roads one journey,   Arlina Allen  8:18   I think wow. And   Unknown Speaker  8:21   and so she took a she looks at the physiology, which is you know, is a real core piece of my work and you know, potential things like blood sugar and, and allergies to alcohol and, and she, you know, she knew about that side as a psychologist, but, but were her work really, where she really anchored it was looking at the language of the bill Wilson's 12 steps. And so she wrote the 16 steps and more of a feminine kind of empowered approach, you know, she just turned the language and so I enjoyed her work and kind of her take on things. And I think that you know, her book came out probably in the 90s as well   Arlina Allen  9:03   in the 90s that is so interesting. So I grew up in the church where I was accustomed to reading patriarchal language of the Bible and things like that. And and I was accustomed to reading things and then interpreting it like I didn't realize I was I had like this interpretation filter, so that you know, when I got sober in 94, all there was really was the 12 steps. And I was so desperate to be different and I just happened to know some people who were going and so I just kind of got they call it getting Eskimos in the cold, I guess. Um, and so that that worked for me. But it's so fascinating that there were so many women that are just like, I'm not okay with this, like this whole patriarchal thing and, and so it's so interesting to hear that Charlotte was able to sort of translate To the 16 steps I'm totally gonna have to check that out so that was a book that you read early on as well   Unknown Speaker  10:06   it was because I I appreciated her comprehensive approach which is very much resonated with me about looking at the biochemistry looking at the emotional components and today's you know language around that is the somatic work the polyvagal work which Charlotte wasn't you know that's newer research but she was aware of that of that bigger comprehensive approach around the codependency is another you know term that was more traditional but that emotional sobriety and then the spiritual piece of it too and there's all different you know, currents to ride with that and and she helped me you know, have an appreciation too I've always been very neutral with with 12 steps I've been in and out of meetings you know, throughout the years and I certainly see from a nervous system standpoint the huge benefit of the community so being in a room with other human beings where you can be heard and seen and witnessed and you know, that your story is held and that's very healing to the nervous system. I understand the criticisms and I have you know, I respect you know, it's everybody has their different preference but speaking strictly from a nervous system standpoint community and the predictability the regular meetings the the support that that you know, there's a lot of dynamics in there that are very supportive to the nervous system now we can find them in you know, in churches or spiritual groups or movement groups like yoga communities or more knitting communities it doesn't have to be a recovery based community but in general community that's part of my acronym nourish uniting with others so   Arlina Allen  11:55   I thought we're gonna get to that I wrote   Unknown Speaker  11:58   and power code   Arlina Allen  12:01   is so good it okay so I don't want to jump ahead but I'm just I'm gonna ask you about all that cuz I was listening to and I was like writing this down I was like, Oh my god, how did I not hear about this before? It's so interesting that we can sort of sort of like package or position information in a way that is so consumable and easy to remember your whole nourish, and that a knack? Is it an acronym my does that sound weird? acronym, acronym? Sorry, dear, I laugh at my own jokes. Bear with me. Um, okay, so the books these are, these are really good books. Okay, so drinking a love story, and then moving beyond the 12 steps, which I totally appreciate. Like,   Unknown Speaker  12:45   let me let me throw one other in there that was very emotional. And we can as we get more into kind of the biochemistry of the book, seven weeks to sobriety was also very influential. And I can dig more into that but but the author, she has her PhD in nutrition. And she was inspired to write the book again in the 90s, I believe, is when it came out, because her teenage son, I think it was late teens, early 20s, went into to to traditional treatment, around the you know, mid 90s, and stayed sober, but was miserable. So emotionally, he came out of treatment and was still very depressed and he didn't drink but tragically then took his life because the alcohol had been removed. But the other pieces is like he didn't feel better, even though he was following you know, the program. And so his mother then said, there's something else we're not even talking about the physical side, there's this whole biochemical side and she got very interested in the nutrients and the amino acids and went on for her PhD to really learn that and then opened a treatment center in Minneapolis, called the health Recovery Center wrote a book called seven weeks to sobriety. And so that was an influential part as I was studying and learning functional medicine about that biochemical piece and and Charlotte wrote about that too. She understood some of the biochemical side but she really looked at kind of that psycho emotional spiritual. So those those were influential books to me while I was drinking like the you know, because I'm a I'm a nutritionist I'm a health coach, I have been for 20 years and so that stuff was always interesting to me. And I would read it and kind of chew on it and be like, this is kind of fascinating. It's a little bit off the traditional path. I still drink but it was planting seeds of where ultimately got me to my final stop what I used when I stopped and now what what I use in my work was was those early seeds.   Arlina Allen  14:41   Yeah, so good. I mean, listen, there's a period of time like I lived in this barn, the Self Help section at Barnes and Noble trying to like think my way into right living as they say. And just because I had as I want to ask you about this a little bit later, but once having the information wasn't like applying them formation is kind of my current obsession and so we'll talk about how to apply it and but I think that's really important that we'll we'll talk about that Do you have a sort of go to mantra or quote that you live by   Unknown Speaker  15:17   this too shall pass   Arlina Allen  15:18   whoo that's fine   Unknown Speaker  15:20   yeah or another one is you know all as well which comes from a Christian mystic in England Her name is Julian of Norwich. Yeah, I I like the Christian the feminine Christian mystics I draw a lot of wisdom from and that was that was one of her really well known quotes is well as well   Arlina Allen  15:43   yeah. I love that Oh, you know what I'm what I like is that just popped into my head was in the end everything will be okay. And if it's not okay, it's not the end.   Unknown Speaker  15:54   Yeah. Yeah. I often post that around New Year's, you know, turning up the calendar and kind of New Year's Eve and it feels like the end but it's you know, we're beginning   Arlina Allen  16:10   Yes, every and has a beginning. I love that. Let's see, do you have a regular your own personal self care routine? Like do you like a daily practice a weekly practice,   Unknown Speaker  16:24   I have a whole menu of nourishment that I have a bag of nourishment that goes Borg and self care. I'm admittedly i'm i'm not great about you know, hitting every single day. But I certainly have really favorite practices that and it changes you know, with different seasons, the time of the year as I grow and evolve and what my needs are, sometimes they're more physical, sometimes they're more emotional, sometimes more spiritual. So it shifts. Right now I'm in Charleston, right outside Charleston, South Carolina on purpose to be very close to the beach because walking barefoot on the beach scene at the beach regularly for me is a huge daily practice and regulator. So that's a biggie. Um, I like breathwork. So that's also very regulating and calming to me to do some kind of some. It's a little bit of Wim Hof. But it's not total Wim Hof.   Arlina Allen  17:26   Half every morning like Monday through Friday. We host this little it's like a 25 we do Wim Hof for 10 minutes and then Tara Brock reign meditation for 10 minutes. No chit chat. No messing around, in and out. Love   Unknown Speaker  17:39   Yeah, yeah. And so I find a grounding for me like literally feet on the earth and then kind of active breathwork both are very settling and soothing to me. And I like those a lot. So those are kind of my my key things saying, you know, really hydrated, sleep, regular, predictable bedtime and wake time is helpful for me. But yeah, you know, there's when I quit drinking, I was using more herbs. There's all kinds of stuff. I mean, we can all   Arlina Allen  18:13   I know that. Yeah. Do you know I am just so glad that you highlighted that there are many tools that you don't do them every single day, like super hard, like you're not militant about it, and that there are different things for different seasons. Because often I talk to people, I even the clients that I coach, they're like, Oh, I didn't do this every single day. And it's like, you don't have to do it every day because our needs actually change and fluctuate. And so it's okay to be flexible, right? And just pay attention. Yeah, pay attention to what your needs are that day. And I have a client who called it her smorgasbord of things. But she you know, she did she put a time limit on it. She's like, Okay, I'm not gonna spend more than an hour, right? She's retired, she's like, I'm not gonna spend because then it becomes this other thing you beat yourself up with, like, all different things. So I like I like the flexibility. And I think consistency can be viewed, let's say over a month period of time, right? If you did, if you did something like 20 days out, that's pretty consistent. Right? You don't have to do something every day to be that's extreme thinking of consistent. We're so funny.   Unknown Speaker  19:30   Yeah. And you know, he's a core philosophy of mind for myself and how I work with others, especially with women. I'm very interested in you know, the cycles and the rhythms. So in our own body within this is noticing nature, so noticing the seasons in nature, but we also have that those seasons within our own body. And so it's very linear and masculine, the masculine archetype to kind of a 24 hour cycle where it's like every morning, do a spin class. And there's nothing wrong with that. But more of the feminine Yin cycle is there's different times of the month depending if we're relating bleeding coming into oscillation, you know, out of our bleed time, our energy cycle is different. And even if you know women listening are menopausal had stopped bleeding or not bleeding for whatever reason, our bodies still sync with the moon. And so there's just times with whether the moon is full or dark a new moon, are as women, our bodies really sink in with that, and it's more about peak energy time versus a low energy time. And so it you know, you don't even have to let get militant about the moon or the moon. You know, this is my work of I'm always cueing clients of notice what feels really nourishing right now, not because you should or you have to, or somebody posted about on Instagram, but does it just feel nourishing to like, take a nap. And, and noticing that and giving yourself permission. So that's so much of my work of tracking, instead of beating ourselves with a whip, really noticing what can   Arlina Allen  21:11   we Yeah, I love that you are not shame based, I can already hear it, you know, it's more nurturing and supportive. And you It's really cool. You know, a lot of the stuff, I know that you're like in the corporate world, like you're very corporate friendly, like palatable. And when I was listening to a lot of your stuff, I was thinking of my friends, you know, I'm from Silicon Valley, I did, I was corporate for a very long time. And in sales, tech sales, and so very, like male dominated very robotic, I would say, and very, like, absent of feelings. It's like, No, no, we don't talk about failing, they can talk about, they'll talk about stress, like, but that's about it, like tired or stressed. Like, the language is very limited. And so it's so it's so interesting that you have it seems like a very unique capability, capacity for being able to speak the corporate language, right, meet people where they are, but then also introduce very practical ideas, you know, paying attention to, you know, the moon and stuff like that, that that was not I did not expect that. And I think it's so refreshing when you're able to sort of live, you know, straddle the, you know, the corporate world, which is so robotic and so shot like, shallow is that I don't know if that's fair. But you know, people are trying to survive in this very, you know, a, a type driven accomplishment, don't feel anything environment. Right? Yeah. I don't know, where alcohol   Unknown Speaker  22:45   comes in. Like, it makes so much sense then, when we drive ourselves at that level. Why alcohol is also so prevalent in   Arlina Allen  22:52   the corporate world. Yeah, big time.   Unknown Speaker  22:55   Yeah. You know, and that's where I really feel like I learned how to corporate minds love physiology. And they, they're fascinated by how the brain works, and that peak performance and, and how to manage stress, you know, that those are buzzwords. And so bringing that in, in kind of a fun inspiring, like, a little bit of a different angle. It's that's where I learned to, to really speak to this, that that was kind of a universal message. And so, you know, I certainly wouldn't lock in talking about the moon. I have, I have found that weird. You know, I'm interested in those aspects that I've found by building the rapport and laying the groundwork of when there's this gut brain connection and what the bacteria in your gut is doing. And this there's this nerve in the back of the cranium called poly vagal nerve, when it's not toned. And this dysregulation, like, which I mean, I level that too. I'm fascinated by it. I you know, I love kind of that logical, yeah, give me that, you know, what is this? Like? How does it work? Why does it work? And then building that rapport where people can be like, that's so fascinating. And then it's like, oh, and do you also know that it's our bodies are 70% water and the moon regulates the tides that the ocean water? Our body is also you know, there's a thing to that it's responding to it. Yeah. And so when we set it up in the physiology which all of this can can be backed in physiology, there's data for all of it, and then it doesn't sound so Whoo. And like, well, this is just nuts.   Arlina Allen  24:43   It's like well, I love how science is explaining why woo is so fascinating, right? It's like there are those of us that less I'm pretty open minded. You know, but I need some science behind it to, but I am I almost missed the whole we should highlight the fact that Do you really like this gray area drinking expert right that's that's really how I came to know you and I thought you know that is meeting people where they are in the corporate world like in the corporate world these people are so driven and there's this perfectionism that happens in the corporate world it's like don't show any of your any of your flaws you know it's like this very robotic it's pushed yourself you know endlessly this 80 Hour Workweek is celebrated and you know they claim work life balance but you know I would be on at sales you know, quarterly business reviews where the VP would be out drinking until like, you know six in the morning and show up for the eight o'clock meeting still a little bit drunk I'm I would imagine and so it's so interesting to sort of gently like we're avoiding words like alcoholism which you know, we don't we understand that that's not really a thing anymore. There's a spectrum but the gray area drinking seems to be seems to be a very nice entry point Can you explain to the listeners like people listening they're like what is this gray area drinking because I think once you explain it everyone goes Oh, yeah, I totally know what that is. Yeah, so   Unknown Speaker  26:15   I was teaching I was doing a lot of contract work from 2004 to 2011 in corporate America trip flying and traveling around the whole United States doing on site workshops being contracted to come in for exactly what you're speaking to us Can you come do these training programs for the employees on this work life balance, they're really stressed they're you know, we're watching the biometrics we're doing these health fairs and we want to have blood pressure kind of overall more in range and their cholesterol and their BMI and we realize it's more of a comprehensive approach so when you come teach them so that you know that was that's my foundation and the work I was doing and what we never talked about around blood pressure and weight and sleep issues and stress was alcohol but you know, bringing in then these resources these regulating resources of around food and around sleep and really practical things to do some regulation in the body which which employees loved and because you know, a lot of people would come into the workshop saying I know this stuff, I'm a marathon runner, you know this it's my hobby and and then we do these workshops and they're like, I didn't know this like I didn't know that about you know, grounding and what like the omega three fat actually does in my brain with my neuro chemicals and so again, people I work with, they're very well read, they're very smart they like this information, they're already reading books listening to podcasts, but then when we can apply it to peak performance and the challenges that come up because of the you know, the corporate deadlines and and a lot of people are drinking heavily and we're not talking about it. And so I would come in from the angle of your craving brain whatever your brain is craving. Here's some ways to you know, because you don't hang the hang the poster seven come to the alcohol class in the boardroom at noon, like people are not going to be alone, right? People are not going to you know, trip over themselves to get to that boardroom but when we talk about the craving brain and ways that you can regulate and work with you know, your innate body's rhythms and cycles and systems in the gut in the brain, people were really really fascinated by that. And then to your question about you know, what is gray area drinking it's that space where people are functioning really well my clients tell me this all the time, I saw it all the time in the corporate world, people function and they drink really heavily. And if they didn't fall into that those traditional definitions of like end stage, just kind of rock bottom the wheels fall off our life but they also weren't every now and again drinkers where they had a drink or two a couple times a year, they were in between this and it was this gray area where again slipping through the cracks it was the white elephant in the room that is how everybody was drinking and nobody was talking about it. And it's how I was drinking and teaching wellness you know, it's like I love this stuff I love about functional nutrition and with the body and regulating the body and then on the weekends I'd be out with my friends drinking like everybody else around me It's how we all drank but it was just you know, and then I would stop many many times and I can't keep drinking like this and I was able to stop it wasn't a problem for me to stop what was more of the problem was after a couple months saying why am I being so restrictive I can have a drink so I would go back to drinking this the staying stopped the same stop which is very characteristic of gray area drinkers because people will say you know, I don't drink every day I you know, go weeks and don't drink. I'm like that's really characteristic. But the hard thing is Sticking with that because it's this gray area of like but nothing bad has happened like I don't have this external kind of proof that there's a problem yet it's the 3am wake up the dry mouth that mentally beating ourselves up but nobody hears that conversation except us in our own head and then going through the gymnastics of okay I'm now I'm just going to drink on the weekend I'm not going to I'm not going to drink again I'm it's this whole thing that goes on for months and years that nobody ever talked about   Arlina Allen  30:31   this it seems there there's this whole other layer of insanity that goes around trying to manage it right like oh well I'm just gonna drink a glass of water between drinks or I'm gonna have a glass of water by the bedside with electrolytes in it so that when I wake up in the morning in the middle of the night just totally dehydrated or you know having the Advil and the by Xen and the charcoal things and the oh my god I'm exhausted just thinking about it right it's like this whole insanity to make make it okay from for the drinking part and it's the whole back and forth that is was so exhausting I wonder so and we were talking a little bit about like just having the information is not enough it's about applying the information but don't you feel like there had to you had to like make a decision like at some point you got sick of the back and forth and you what what was there like a tipping point for you that you were just like this is that I'm done for good this time?   Unknown Speaker  31:29   Well that was December 14 2014 which was the the solid in my bones resolute I'm done. This is it and you know, it wasn't a Cavalier decision It wasn't easy. Alcohol is a problem for me you know, it was very typical for me I'm just gonna have a glass I can just you know, I want to just open a bottle at home pour that glass and then I would drink it and be like, ah, screw it I'll have enough it was very easy to do you know finish the bottle that was that was my kind of typical pattern and knock on wood. Fortunately nothing you know, half bad happened like I didn't have a DUI or anything like that, but there was so much of that. That's how I drank and then I would stop many many times over the years under the wellness umbrella I'm going to do a paleo challenge I'm I'm doing a yoga you know challenge I I'm just not going to drink and people get used to that and and it worked because they knew I was in wellness they knew I was and it's like oh that makes sense like you're doing so I never really it was it I flew under the radar with it. But then I would say oh I can you know be a social drinker. I want to be a social drinker. So it really to your question, it was just so much of that back and forth which is exhausting. It never changes I would go right back to where I left off whether it was one month or seven months it didn't matter and it was just this resolute because I had bad you know back and forth so many times of just I'm tired of this. I don't want to keep doing this. I've been through different seasons with it I've been through different experiences with it. You know what I've been dating not dating really high stress with work or whatever, it just doesn't change and I had that real conversation with myself December 14 2014 going through those scenarios of like you know what if I go on this romantic holiday like what if and I was like no no, I'm just I'm done. And that was seven I'm coming up on my seven year anniversary this December.   Arlina Allen  33:40   Oh my gosh, that's so exciting. Congratulations that is not easy. That is not easy. Yeah, so Okay, so you know what I love about what you do is that the science behind it the science behind like the addiction of alcoholism or alcohol the science sort of depersonalized is that right? And so it takes out the shame takes out the gill and it's like well of course you're getting addicted to alcohol Look what it's doing to your brain right and so you talk about three the neurotransmitters and a way that I thought was so good it was like oh, that's why right so you talked about GABA, serotonin and dopamine and you're gonna be able to explain it much better but when I heard you talk about it the first time I was like that as the shit Oh my god, like people need to hear this. So what is your What is your explanation behind those three neuro chemicals and how they make us feel that sort of drive the compulsion to drink   Unknown Speaker  34:46   well, so that you know there's there's four major neural chemicals I hit on three of them in my TED talk, but there's four major ones. So two are the gas pedal for our body and then two are the brakes for us. So the gas pedal dopamine and serotonin. So dopamine is the drive that shapes that with the motivation to to move. To get up out of bed and produce we need that we need to be motivated. And then the acetylcholine is the other kind of gas pedal. And that's about focus and memory. And then serotonin and GABA are the brakes. So GABA is that relaxation feeling where the mind shuts off. And there's just that feeling of kind of that downshift. And serotonin is just the feeling of happiness, bliss, life is good, I'm not really needing or craving anything to fill a void right now I'm just I'm content I'm good. And so we need the balance of gas pedal what you know, we need to move and stay motivated and produce and we're, you know, accomplish and have that drive. And we need memory to have that memory bank and our focus and like these are, you know, important things just to biologically function. But then we need to balance that with rest and relaxation, and some happiness and some bliss and just contentment. And so when you know, those get out of balance for all kinds of reasons, sleep, you know, not sleeping, well, eating a lot of processed food and sugar, drugs and alcohol, trauma, stress, so all of those things can open up the valve, where's those neural chemicals just flush through us much quicker, because we're inside that's like who there's stress, there's, you know, all this sugar, all this alcohol. So we need to compensate open the valve and then all of a sudden, it's like, we're really depleted now and gabbeh or something, you know, we're going through that scenario, and the body just can't do the uptake enough to replenish and make it quick enough to fill it up. So we're the dumping it too fast, or not making it fast enough. And so when we come into baseline, the body can do what it knows to do, it can make adequate chemicals through real food, like omega three fish oil, you know, through the amino acids, those are the raw materials that then make these neural chemicals. And we can we can hold on to our neural chemicals and not just flesh them through our system so quickly, by you know, some different practices and movement and rest and good replenishing sleep. And so to me, it's it's where the rubber meets the road with all of the practices, exercises, theories, techniques, because you spoke to it a minute ago about how we can just kind of get into like this militant, like I need to do it, I should do it. I heard it's good. I heard it's bad. I heard it's like, no, it's about noticing, what are you needed to replenish right now what's deficient and depleted. And so the body's just trying to keep us in homeostasis, and that, and then we reach to alcohol. So it's like when we understand the physiology, it's like, Oh, interesting, something's depleted and deficient, physiologically, not psychologically. And so the body's just trying to compensate. So alcohol is a physical substance, our physical body is depleted, we and our physical body, and we get a physical effect very immediately. So the body's like, keep doing it, like i don't i, this, it seems to work immediately. So and that's been where that addictive loop gets in. So where I then work is, let's lift the hood, what's depleted in the first place, biochemically, emotionally, energetically, and let's replenish what's truly needing to be replenished. It's not because you're a bad person, or you did something wrong. It's just like going to be in the body detective, the body whisperer, which I love doing. And, and often, it's just, you know, it doesn't have to be really complicated. It's just going back to the basics. And I'd find this in the corporate world all the time, too. We want the shiny, you know, stuff, the shiny next thing, and nobody's hydrated. Nobody's sleeping regularly. And this is where the application comes down. Because it's, it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I should drink more water should get better slide,   Arlina Allen  39:12   isn't it, nobody wants to hear that.   Unknown Speaker  39:17   It's not sexy. It's not glamorous, and we're out the other. I'm the same way I get it. But what's really cool about this work is when you have the actual experience. So when you actually have a 10 hour night of deep restorative sleep, it's mind blowing, it's a 180 it's the same way with, you know, sewers,   Unknown Speaker  39:36   or certain things. And so I'm always working with clients of like, it's not about getting a gold star from me and checking the box and doing all these things to perform and achieve. That's what makes us want to drink because we're, we're exhausted. So now it's when you put something in when you add it in, what happens because when we drink something happens and so if you're not noticing an effect that's really Positive that you can, you know, like, again, when I do breath work, there's an effect. Like, I feel that I mean, there's this bliss and this calm that moves through my body by by, you know, consciously doing different practices with my breath. So it's like I want to do that again, like that almost feels like I just had a glass of wine, what I did with that breathwork so that's the work and it's it's exciting, it can be really inspiring. And it's very empowering to go back to the physiology because that's where all the secrets and the magic are. And it puts aside the psychological shame that we've kind of gotten tangled in that's really unnecessary. Yeah,   Arlina Allen  40:40   you know, you hit on something that kind of sparked a light me which is about adding in, because a lot of recovery is about taking away, right, we're taking away the one thing like listen, when I was still drinking, and I smoked a lot of weed. Taking I was I loved those things, those were the things that receiving me, right and I crashed and burned early, I was done at 25. Because I did not manage, because not managing well. But to let them go was so hard because it was I felt like the thing that was bringing me like that was saving me so to let it so deprivation, I you know is a big thing for people that are you know, going alcohol free, or getting sober or whatever. And I love the idea that you're presenting which is adding in, right, let's add in the things that give you the feeling that we wanted from the drugs or alcohol in the first place. So it's a totally different mindset instead of deprivation. It's about adding I love that idea.   Unknown Speaker  41:46   Yeah, I do too. deprivation doesn't work for me. So I'm not going to try to talk with somebody else or coach somebody else through deprivation, like I don't want to be deprived who does. Nobody wants that. It doesn't work. So I would   Arlina Allen  41:58   be there we would be broken alone.   Unknown Speaker  42:02   And we know from behavior change from behavior, psychology, that deprivation, it never works now, but I can put it back in the physiology. So what we're dealing with is the amygdala and the animal brain, the animal brain only concern it has one concern as to keep us alive, right? And so if there's a sense of deprivation, that signals it's a biological signal, we're gonna die. So who's gonna win? Is that animal, right? Every time. So we've got to give the message then to the amygdala, that alarm center in the body that we're not in this deprivation, like we're not going to die, you're, we want to give that animal something. And, and that animal kind of limbic brain, it doesn't understand language. So this is why you know, saying, Just relax.   Arlina Allen  42:51   Don't ever tell an angry woman to relax? Yeah,   Unknown Speaker  42:54   well, it's like, it's literally like saying to an animal, just relax. They don't understand words our animal brain does literally doesn't understand words. But what it understands is sensation. And so alcohol gives us sensation in the physical body, walking barefoot on the beach gives a physical sensation. If I take a gamma boosting herb, it gives us sensation. And so that's where it's like the rubber meets the road with these practices of what we're doing is we're working on the physiology to give us sensation, that then travels up the spinal cord from the body into the brain saying, Oh, that feels good. And the animal brain is like, Okay, I'm not deprived, I feel this comfort, I feel soothing, I feel contained, which is what we're ultimately looking for. So it's not you give up alcohol and jump off a cliff and just hold your breath and hope for the best. It's, you make a decision to stop alcohol, and then open up this door and explore all of these really cold processes that give a physiological effect that no one ever taught us. But   Arlina Allen  43:59   exactly nobody ever taught us that's why we're using reaching for things that are not good for us because you know, that's what's available. We don't know about all these other things. And this is really speaks to the I want to get to the nurse thing, don't let me forget. But I wanted to also point out something that you highlight, which is it used to be that we would talk about the brain first and then the body and you flip that around, you're talking about addressing the somatic experience and and you hit the nail on the head when you're talking about experience and feelings. Right? And so talk to me a little bit about how we you're we're looking at this differently now we're looking at somatic and then neuro chemistry.   Unknown Speaker  44:45   So you know, that's the latest neuroscience, where Bessel Vander kolk, who wrote the bought the book, the body keeps the score. Oh, Peter Levine, who is the grandfather of somatic experiencing. This is the current research and it's not their opinion. It's I mean, the data is there.   Arlina Allen  45:02   Yeah, there, we have empirical data, we've got the   Unknown Speaker  45:05   data, they're doing the studies, they're you know, they're measuring gabbeh levels, then they have a group of people do 60 minutes of yoga, and then they measure their data levels again, so they're really watching this kind of stuff. But where all of this kind of somatic new neuroscience, what they find from research, not opinion, is that it's bottom up, not top down. So we work with the body, which is kind of all the stuff I've been talking about when we shift the body and the body can start to feel a sensation of calm, and soothing and grounding. That message goes up the spinal cord to the brain. And then the brain can say, the animal brain can say, okay, we're, we're okay with that. Because, again, that animal brain doesn't understand language. So we can't talk to the animal brain. We have to have feel that sensations in the body in really practical ways. This is not esoteric. Whoo, whoo, whoo, whoo.   Arlina Allen  46:01   I like blue. But this is science.   Unknown Speaker  46:03   Yeah, yeah. So that it's, you know, it's where the neurosciences and so that's where I work I work with with physiology with   Arlina Allen  46:11   physiology. Okay. And that makes perfect sense. And that maybe this is a good segue Can we talk about your acronym for nourish because it was all   Unknown Speaker  46:21   good, thank you. So as a as a functional nutritionist, my just really kind of, to pick a word that embodies my work over 20 years, it's it's nourish, which is my strength, and also my shadow, because the work for me is continually nourishing myself and not just food. So what I teach is what I also learn and keep practice. Yeah, so I'm always you know, it's not like I just quit drinking and now I've arrived and tell everybody else what they need to do. Constant practice, alright, but but the word that anchors that for me is nourish and then I created an acronym out of that for for my TED Talk. And so and is notice nature. Oh is observe your breath. You is unite with others are replenished with food. I initiate movement. s sit in stillness, and h is harnessed creativity. And I'm working on my book right now all about that, oh, there's numerous, numerous options and resources and things within each of those categories. But it really brings that whole comprehensive approach biochemical, somatic, emotional, energetic routines, that different things work for different people for regulating and nourishing the nervous system.   Arlina Allen  47:51   You just said something in my eyes lit up, because everybody is different, right? There's so many different paths to this sort of recovery, sobriety, alcohol free life, right? Not there's no one solution that works for everybody. And I think that's largely what's so confusing, is, there are so many, like everybody is so different. And there are so many different tools, but I like the idea that this nourish actually can be applied no matter what your specific situation it is. Your situation is. So what are some of the you mentioned, different supplements and things to sort of regulate those? You know, the GABA, serotonin, dopamine, acetylcholine? What if someone's curious about like, what they should be using? Do you have a resource on your website? Or maybe you can just rattle off a few things that people might try?   Unknown Speaker  48:50   Yeah, yeah, I'm happy to kind of talk through some of those pieces. So I work with clients one on one to really customize this piece. And kind of piggyback on what you just said, I really work with biochemical individuality. So I can rattle off some things, but it surrounds snowflakes,   Arlina Allen  49:06   unique snowflakes, right? It doesn't   Unknown Speaker  49:09   mean everybody out there then needs to take this particular supplement or eat this particular food. And B, this is my functional medicine background of what is individual for your biochemistry. And there's different ways to test that. And we can do lab testing and things. But But you know, the easiest, most inexpensive way is when you eat something, when you take something when you do something, notice what happens next, and three things happen. And it can be a really profound like, wow, that helps so much. My mind is blown right now. Or it can be kind of a neutral, like didn't really feel anything one way or the other. Or it can be I hated that, and I don't like how I feel now. And so I'm always cueing people back to that and the more kind of regulated and grounded we are in our body when the body is Calm, and there's practices and ways to do that, the easier it is then to kind of notice, like, what just happened here. Whereas if we're always kind of up in our head and just running and you know, in that intellect mental, it's hard to be like, I don't even know if I liked it. I mean, I just did it. So that's the argument of kind of somatic work. But um, but going back to just kind of some things, you know, I recommend, so biochemically whole food is king is golden. eating real food is is a great place to start. So did it grow from the ground? Can you pick it? berries? You know, bananas off the tree? Can you know, can you hunt it? If you eat meat? Can you gather it like gathering fish, or eggs or cream from the cow. So actual real food, that there isn't a list of ingredients, you know, 43 letters long and a whole paragraph. Real Food. And this is what I would teach in corporate all the time is, it's actually really, really fascinating. You know, one of the most fascinating lectures I ever heard in functional medicine, was a medical doctor who lectured about broccoli for an hour, it was fascinating. Because the chemical breakdown in broccoli, and every fruit and every vegetable, some of that we are still discovering. Because it's like, yeah, yeah, eat your vegetables. But when you really break it down, it's mind blowing, like what that, again, it's physical food and our physical body, what that does. So going back to the basics of whole food, if there's anything I can inspire people with is eat real food. That's in season, it's local, it's colorful, if possible, sometimes that's not always possible. But starting there, you know, eating regularly, because then the body breaks down into amino acids that are the raw materials for the brain. When you eat real, healthy fats, those break down into the omega three fats, some of our omega six fats, those are those necessary fats, again, for the brain, you know, good vegetables, even fermented vegetables, like sauerkraut, that's that good bacteria that goes into the gut. So there's just, it's just endless. The benefits of, you know, the exciting, like, mechanisms within food. And so I like to start there and try to you know, inspire people, and you don't have to, like clear your cupboards. It doesn't have to be radical. Yeah, I'm never radical about any of this. But the idea of adding something in instead of trying to take a bunch of stuff out, add in real food,   Arlina Allen  52:39   and real food, that isn't it? Yeah. And I think you were, I think I heard you say that the amino acids and the proteins are the building blocks to these neuro chemicals that we need. And like, at the end of the day, when maybe your gamma is low, or serotonin, or whatever it may be, all of them are low at the end, is that true that it's low at the end of the day?   Unknown Speaker  53:00   That's a good question. Um, I think it's more kind of over time, you know, like a 30 day period, a snapshot of like, what are we, you know, kind of dumping in that period, although there are urine tests that we do a 24 hour urine collection, and they are seeing like, how much of the neurotransmitter were dumped into our urine in a 24 hour period. So I think it's both you know, just kind of seeing like, the pattern that the body is on but also it's interesting, like what happens over over a longer period too.   Arlina Allen  53:32   Yeah, the reason I asked about the end of the day because I feel like that's like the witching hour for a lot of people, you know, but I think it speaks to meeting like we're so jacked up all day trying to get stuff done, that in the evening we're trying to do was deregulate down regulate to regulate, yeah, just just regulate, yeah, emotion management thing.   Unknown Speaker  53:56   So biochemistry is a huge part of it, our neuro chemicals, our blood sugar, our you know, our thyroid, our gut bacteria, our adrenal function. So adrenals are closely connected with dopamine. So if we're running on cortisol and adrenaline, then we're also pulling down on dopamine as well. Every neural chemicals connected with a hormone. So progesterone and gabbeh are connected, which I find a lot of women who are in this gray area struggle with wine are low and progesterone and low and Gabba. And you know, a common kind of symptom complaint of those two chemicals being low is anxiety and difficulty sleeping. And so a lot of women that are reaching to wine to help them sleep and to help manage their anxiety and when we lift the physiological hood, it's low gabicce, low progesterone. So there's all of these kind of physiological pieces, we can start with food, there's different nutrients that can i Find a lot of women are low and gabbeh. Dopamine is the sexy neuro chemical that everybody's like, oh, the dopamine hit the dopamine hit but but in reality, if we're really trying to boost dopamine, we tend to be more interested in things like cocaine, ecstasy, espresso, a pot of coffee, where if we're cocaine or coffee is more low gabbeh, which I'm certainly have that predisposition to be low gabbeh that's been more reaching to things like marijuana, Cannabis, alcohol to hit that off switch. So it's interesting what people you know, reach to so that's the biochemical side, there's some herbs or some nutrients to boost GABA boost dopamine, but then there's also what you're talking about kind of the witching hour, at the end of the day, that then goes into some of just the nervous system fight flight freeze response. So it's not always biochemical, but they're all interconnected, they all work together. If we're in a constant flee response, we're going to be dumping a lot more, you know, of our gas, the dopamine they see, so it all connects. But the but the fight flee freeze response. And if we're, if that valve is always on, if we're always kind of in a flee or in a fight, or we've just in that frozen kind of immobilized, protective state, that's exhausting. Any of those states if the, if the on switch is always on. So by the end of the day, it's hard to continue, we're exhausted holding that dysregulated state. So now we want to regulate it with alcohol to kind of let the valve off constantly, you know, we're fleeing, we want to move we want to, and it's like, I want to stop and slow down. So it could be some of that polyvagal kind of stress response, as well. And then there's, you know, the, the energetic side of things. So this is acupuncture, you know, they talk about, like how the energy moves in the body. So, if there's an area that's, that's more stuck, or moving really fast, and that's where body work comes in acupuncture, you know, working with the energy system, so there's no one size fits all, but I work with people to get kind of the full story. And it's like, where do we want to kind of start here with what might be a missing piece? And what might be depleted? And it's so   Arlina Allen  57:17   good, how do people connect with you if they want to reach out and work with you.   Unknown Speaker  57:23   So gray area drinkers calm is my sites where all my info is, you can email me I work with clients, one on one, I have a coach training where I train other coaches on the nourish method. And my TED Talks, there are lots of interviews I've done. And then I have did a podcast as well called edit, editing, our drinking and our lives. And so all of that on gray area drinkers calm.   Arlina Allen  57:48   That is amazing. I leave all leave links, ever. I know people are probably taking notes or driving or whatever. So I'll leave all the links in the show notes. But this has been such a fascinating conversation. I could easily talk to you for the rest of the day. So many questions. And I just think this was so helpful. Thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you so much for having me. It's fun to meet you and chat with you. Thank you. Yeah, definitely. Thanks so much. And I'll leave all the show notes, links in the show notes how people can get a hold of you.   Unknown Speaker  58:20   Wonderful. Thank you.   Arlina Allen  58:22   Thanks.  

Arlina Allen 0:13 Dr. Rob Kelly, thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you, Andy for asking. Awesome. Looking forward to this. Hey, before we get started, I saw a picture of you with an English bulldog. Was that yours? Unknown Speaker 0:25 Yes, I have three English Bulldogs we strive for, but we had to rehome one because of fights. Oh, but I have Mackenzie, Who's the girl and two boys. Arlina Allen 0:34 And so sweet. So I've had four total but right now I have just one. Yeah, an English bulldog. His name is Teddy. He's the podcast mascot. You will occasionally hear him snoring in the background. Unknown Speaker 0:47 Always. I've got three in the office today cuz doing other things downstairs. But yeah, I hope they don't balk or anything. Otherwise, we're in trouble. It's Arlina Allen 0:56 fine. It's fine. This is not CNN. Be good. But my audience is all about sobriety and finding solutions. And you are the solution guy. I saw you on the doctors and did my research and saw on your on your website that you talk about permanent recovery. And that's what everybody wants. Everybody wants these people who've just been through the wringer of people who want to stop and cannot. Those are our people. Right and so I can't wait to hear what you have to say about all that. But like I said, before we jump in we do this something called the lightning round. So I'm just gonna pepper you with it's never usually very fast. But I'm I'm so curious. What were some of your favorite books when you got sober? Unknown Speaker 1:51 When I got sober? Well, obviously the big book I read often, but I kind of well I wrote about myself. So that's obviously the best ever. But just real life, I love biographies. I love to see how other people live. And now other people have overcome not not a big believer in you know, these get get well or get fit box that are out there. I just think that it's all about the mind. on trade with the mind. Yeah, I Arlina Allen 2:21 couldn't agree more. Yeah, I'll be talking to Dr. Anne Lemke. She wrote that book that just was released dopamine nation, so I'm super excited about that. And also, never enough. Another neuroscientist. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So I'm all about it. Awesome. What about do you have like a favorite go to mantra, he kind of said it this morning. When I asked I Unknown Speaker 2:44 did I did. I always use that it's dreaming. I'm living the dream instead of dreaming a living is and it came to me. When I was homeless, passing a nice house with the children mum and dad. Having Christmas lunch. I used to dream of that. I used to dream of living that little dream. And I went I did. It just came to me one day, and it's been my mantra ever since. Arlina Allen 3:08 Yeah, we do have a tendency to spend a lot of time in fantasy land. One more. Yeah. And that throws Unknown Speaker 3:14 even afterwards, if I'm honest. Um, do you have a regular self care routine that you practice for yourself? I do every single day when I get up. First thing I want to do is I want to train my subconscious brain. So I go to the mirror. I love myself in the eyes. And I say I love you 10 times. I don't say any other affirmation just I love you. Because I used to have a big problem with that. So I'm kind of stored in the subconscious brain. So when it comes to like decision making, that's going to pop over to the prefrontal cortex, and I'm gonna go you know, something, I love myself today. I deserve this. So yeah, that's what I do. And then I write out five things, I'm going to accomplish that day. And, and the idea behind that is if I if I, if I complete all five, I've taken a step forward in life. If I only complete three or four, I've taken a step back in life. Arlina Allen 4:07 Oh, interesting account. You know, what I heard recently is accountability. Empathy without accountability reinforces the victim mentality. Yes. I like that. I like the I like that accountability piece that you have for yourself. I have a feeling you're kind of a hard ass and I can't wait to talk to you about that. But I have one more question. I like I like to work question. What's the one thing you wish you knew when you first got sober? It's gonna be okay. That's gonna be my life's gonna be amazing. You're like this amazing? He says, um, and what do you do for fun? Unknown Speaker 4:44 I have a music where am I used to be a musician when I was young. So I was a onstage musician and then I was a played at Abbey Road for about three or four years. I played with elton john Queen David Bowie. So I have a music room at home or with a full fall everything Got everything and you can imagine so I go in there about once every couple of days and I may play drums or guitar I might play keyboard I might write songs I might do a live YouTube. So that's what I do and of course walking my three English Bulldogs is also great Arlina Allen 5:16 use I noticed that you have some big guns Do you consider exercise fun? Unknown Speaker 5:21 Yes of course. Yeah, I I have what's called a mirror in the house. We also have a bike. A well known bike power. Arlina Allen 5:28 The mirror the exercise mirror thing? Yeah. Oh, you like that? I'm, I'm I know. Phenomenal. You can do everything on that. Yeah. And you can make yourself look beautiful. Yes. If you really squint for me, I'm like, Oh, yeah. Can I just I don't want to gloss over the fact that you mentioned that you play with elton john and Queen. fucking amazing. Unknown Speaker 5:49 Right on, right. That is Arlina Allen 5:52 amazing. He just kind of like threw that out there very casually. That's pretty incredible. Unknown Speaker 5:57 Yeah, why? It's what paid for courage college, I was a session musician. I grew up on a unmade projects. So I wasn't ever going anywhere, really. But I was wanting to better so I auditioned after playing another recording studio sessions and then added seven auditions and got the job. And I was only 16 at the time against perfect. I know. But I had this confident. Well, I said my mom used to tell me I used to walk around with a guitar around my neck and wouldn't even check it out of both. I was just because I'm musical family. I was on stage at nine. Family. So yeah, so awesome. Everyone asked the same thing. Who's the worst person you've played with? Regarding hanging around? Who's the best, worst person to elton john. Once he gets into that mood, his heart was Arlina Allen 6:40 out before he got sober after? Unknown Speaker 6:43 Yes, I think before it would be 79 around the area. And the best would be Freddie Mercury. We spent hours and hours late into the night chatting about philosophy and how it can change the world. So yeah, I got this Arlina Allen 6:58 sense from Freddie Mercury that he'd be really funny. Unknown Speaker 7:01 Oh, yeah, he is. He's always kind of switched on. You never find him in a bad mood. He's always smiling. He used to call me Robbie, darling. Unknown Speaker 7:10 What else would he call you? Right? Unknown Speaker 7:14 Awesome, guys. Arlina Allen 7:15 It's amazing that he is truly truly unique. That's very cool. Okay, well, that's it for my silly lightning round questions. I always like to provide like Book Resources and things like that and sort of set the stage for mindset. But really, what I, what you and I think both care about is helping other people and to help other people I do I actually practice hypnotherapy. So when you talk about subconscious mind, neuroscience and all that stuff, what we're talking about is root cause, right? Because we're You and I are dealing with people that have chronic, persistent, pervasive conditioning from childhood. I read somewhere in your stuff that root causes are abandonment, fear and shame. Can you tell me a little bit about why those things lead us to want to medicate with drugs and alcohol? And really, mostly, what is your process to help treat that pervasive consist consistent conditioning? Unknown Speaker 8:16 Well, we have to look, there's a couple of things you need to look out before again, that conversation and that is the alcoholic brain, which is a predisposition. We're born this way. So rather drink, not like drug taking. alcoholism is different. So we look at that brain, for instance, is what I study. And many people often ask me, what's the gateway drug? Rob? It's obviously marijuana. And my answer is always the same. It's trauma. That's the gateway drug. So I'm born this way. I have a remapped neural pathways at birth because you have the alcoholic brain, which wants to self sabotage any opportunity it can. So remapped and then trauma. Now when I'd say trauma, people think, Oh, well, I've never been in a car crash or, you know, it's no witness to murder or right. But drama could be in the house. So for instance, by my mom watching, hypothetically, one day and me and my brothers stood on the table, my brother's a normie. And my mom says to my brother, because this is what she said, and this is what she he hears, Paul, down on that table. You stupid idiot. Get down, and he jumps off and he laughs What I hear same sentence said to me in the same voice, get out of that chair, you stupid idiot. So my brain and subconscious brain and central nervous system is jacked up for a start. And all that wording, everything we hear, and we see is always stored in the subconscious brain every thing we do, and that's why the latest science that I do regarding the brain is helpful into the subconscious brain. So I'm automatically abandoned because of the way I hear and see things. So my dad used to work a lot of hours were a working class family. So I have hardly seen my dad there. abandonment issues straight away, which we don't think or abandonment issues. My dad's doing the best he can, you know? Oh, don't be silly, Robert, you can't go to college like your brother. Oh my goodness that does more harm than you could ever imagine. But my subconscious brain loves that stuff. Arlina Allen 10:17 Why did she say Why did she say you can't Don't be silly, you can't go to college, it was Unknown Speaker 10:22 just something my mom said, you know, it's not like my brother, when it's like, we can't go to college, we just don't do that. See, I was supposed to grow up, just like my parents. By the time I was 18, married by the time I was 19, have a baby or to have a normal nine to five working manual job and go to the pub every night and the way home. That was it from generations to generations. Because you can see that pattern of alcoholism and mindset going back through my family, that that's what they settled for. Now, I was different, I didn't want to settle for that. So going back to the abandonment, the alcoholic brain and central nervous system. And the whole aura is always felt as if we don't fit in. So I never fit in anywhere. So there's the abandonment, again, the shame of where I grew up. I grew up on the project counselor stage, all my friends I went to school with even though it was just a normal school, they lived on a private estates, which parents had a mortgage, we pay rent, I was so embarrassed about I was so shameful. And of course, when my drinking took over at the age of nine, I started but it took over about 2526 there was the shame of that. So what we do is we have to go back or we call is a scene of the crime. And we have to start clearing that stuff up. And the worst thing somebody can say to me is Oh, yeah, I've kind of worked on that myself. If you worked on that yourself, you won't be relaxing, first of all, and you won't be going through girlfriend's chain every week, you know, you're having, we have to really go back and look exactly what you do and repair that damage done in the past and usually by Kagan's Arlina Allen 11:57 so when you say go back to the past and repair the damage, that is the crux of the treatment, right? Unknown Speaker 12:04 Yes. Yes. Because you have to go back and look, you know, I mean, many people come in, they go, Okay, well, I drink him out. I don't do this. They do that. Well, anything, any trauma. Now. Everything's good. And when we go back and really pinpoint, they forget to tell me about the molestation from the father or the uncle or the priest. They forgot to tell me a bit homosexual actually did when he was nine or 10. They forgot to tell me about how the mum used to smack them across the face because their house wasn't tidy when they come home. So they kind of think well, mum and dad did the best now. I'm not having that. hating on people say that. Well, they did the best they could now, you know, I used to walk to school with holes in my socks, and cardboard in my shoes. Because I hold in my shoes. Walking on the snow to Mars. I had to watch work every day because my mom couldn't afford my socks and shoes. Now my mom could afford and my dad to go to the bar every Friday and Saturday night. So I had one person sat down once and he said this. He said wrong. You really upset about them shoes. And I said yeah, but my mom dad couldn't afford it. And he said this to me that changed my life. He says when your mom went to the bars every Friday, Saturday and Sunday night, did she have holes in her socks? And I was like, when he hit me I had more trauma and I could ever imagine growing up, you know, they will drop me with a friend. But when I got to the friend, the man and the woman they would say okay, we ever we have a naked night tonight. So everyone gets naked. I didn't tell my mom that because I thought it was natural. Arlina Allen 13:36 Yeah, yeah. That everybody in the house got naked. Unknown Speaker 13:40 Yeah, but you know, all the kids and the mom and dad. And that's just a Wait, why. So I went along. I never even mentioned it because I thought it was the norm. You see my I have a big thing. And it's this, anything less than nurturing as a child, his child abuse, especially what find out more about the brain and the central nervous system. I can never get a girlfriend, Why do I always leave? Why is it Why did I marry my dad? Well, it's like, you have to understand why we do these things. There's a pattern to our behavior. And if and if you're happy doing that pattern and living the way you're living great, but if you want to change your life, then you need to go back and clear this stuff up and change neural pathways from self sabotage to self care. Because at the moment, or when I was born up until about 28 when I got sober. I had more self sabotage. And then I did self care. So I start really good. Oh, I would look so good. I mean, when I was when I went to work, I do anything girlfriend, but after a month or two, it's self sabotage. If you feel like this. Oh my god, it's it's nine o'clock. Rob. You're not supposed to start till 10 and then six rather you're going home. I'll stay till seven A month later, Where the hell is Rob It's one o'clock. That's all my life has been like that. Because I self sabotage over any considerable period with a mindset like that. Arlina Allen 14:59 Right? It's an internal In a mindset of I don't really truly deserve this Unknown Speaker 15:04 100 and million percent and the other one is self dialog I can I can sell stuff so you don't have to say anything to me. I dropped a pat on the floor and I go What a stupid idiot when I'm picking it up loves that stuff so when I go for that car that job that girl that house whatever the subconscious brain goes, You stupid idiot. What are you doing here? You can't do this Did you think you are and I still get that today when I go on when I do speaking of setting the wing some town I'm thinking oh my god, they don't want what I've got nothing to offer. Oh my god, oh my god, and a panic. And then God taking a walk over and I'm a big spiritual guy now used to hate that word garden. Oh, we're all happy going to church. I used to hate that. Arlina Allen 15:47 Did you go to church growing up? Unknown Speaker 15:48 I did. I was a quiet I was a quiet boy I was I was a chorister, as they call it in the Protestant church had a great voice and my but my headmaster sexually abused me. One of the guys that you know, and I blame my mom. My mom knew about this. Arlina Allen 16:06 That he was like that and sent you anyway. Unknown Speaker 16:09 It was nothing directly talked about. But I remember being picked up. There's a there's a group out there of saying there's a cola, Vienna Boys Choir, and we should delete it. Well, my headmaster said well, who was also the the teacher of the music and the church, said to my mom, we have Robert an audition for the Vienna Boys Choir in Chester, which is 70 miles away for LA. He took me there and the rest was blurred. We never went to any audition. I come home feeling sick. Mom said I was silent for about three months. Yeah, I was concerned if and I was shocked. I don't remember the incident. But put two and two together. You know, I don't know of any audition. So it's a ruse. And then there was the neighbor across the road. That was about 1415. And he was he was married. But he was he was gay. And we go to the sauna together because I was into fitness and bodybuilding at the time. And he would try to MLS me and do things. And it was awkward. And no one made it into fun, but many years later, and I said oh you everyone needs to go to sauna. I said, Oh yeah, with the gay guy. And I looked at them. And I said, How'd you know? Now everyone knows about him? And I didn't say Arlina but I wanted to say why the fuck? Did you just let me go through five years of my life with this guy knowing quite well, what he's capable of doing. And he really kind of set me and not against my parents. But I'm thinking you know, the best he could is not good enough for me. Arlina Allen 17:38 I don't know I heard that at a meeting one time this guy because you do hear that a lot and I think it's a way it's a sort of like spiritual bypassing like you have to go through the pain first and do the processing metabolize the pain Ababa. And sometimes that bought they did the best they could offers a little bit of peace. But if you don't do the work first, it's just spiritual bypassing and you're just putting a bandaid over a pile of shit. Right? Exactly. This guy stood up at a meeting one day and he like, pounded the podium. He goes it wasn't good enough. Yes, it wasn't. And I was like, Thank you finally somebody said Unknown Speaker 18:18 you say the truth exists. And that's and that's what's missing. One of the things that I came to America because I wasn't known or famous or anything back then is I wanted to to have a platform where I could speak my mind. I don't report to anybody you know if I say the things that other people are thinking or wish they could say because it isn't good enough. You drop the fucking bar mom and dad own it you know get get oh well that's just the way that my dad never spoke to me. You know, he couldn't give him a gift he was one of them gave very embarrassed what it was just the way he was brought bullshit. Change it I changed it you know I lost my kids and all that but now I've got in touch with one of our I've changed it you know? Just to what No, it's not I'm not having that. You know, Arlina Allen 19:00 what's important about owning it in your mind like when when you're when you tell somebody you know hey, it wasn't good enough and we want them to own it. Is it the validation is it a standing up for ourselves? What is it about owning it that is so important Unknown Speaker 19:18 well first of all when I when I do that it's it's telling the truth it's out in the truth is that there are some there are some guys going up now around the world that don't even think the Holocaust happened. It's that crazy. Don't want people to get into that. It's like less reminders who dropped the ball and who didn't you know, and I like I like given information that you know people go oh shouldn't be talking about that. You know, first of all the alcoholism. Yes, we should. And I'm blatant when farmers comment on little Johnny's you know his his drinking every day like what he's gonna die. Whoa, you can't say that. Yours. Why? Why can I not speak the truth? Truth tell him for me is powerful. Yes, really is power. And I like to I like to. First of all, I have this order that attracts people when I speak. And that was a gift. I used to be on it, huh? Yeah, yeah. Now I say louder, say stronger, say proud. And people listen. And I love the fact that let's not keep it hidden away. Bring it out because alcoholics used to be until two, three years ago, where the gay community was 30 years ago, is that we don't talk about that. We don't really we know it goes on. But hey, you know, I always think I know right? But Arlina Allen 20:33 okay, here's, here's this Sorry to interrupt you. But here's the thing. It's okay for you to get drunk and show your ass in public. Yeah, but God forbid you tell people I don't drink anymore. I just don't like black now. I don't like waking up. And the worst thing in Unknown Speaker 20:47 the world is like, I heard this guy tell the joke when she was like, I went to the bar. And the guy said to me, do you want to drink and he says no one alcoholic? And he said what? He said, I'm sorry. I'm a I'm a serial killer. Thank God for that. scenario, when I'm out there just doing it. You know, it's Arlina Allen 21:06 so crazy to me that people are so like, and people still like that are in recovery. And listen, I don't I don't come out with like, I'm an alcoholic. I'm just like, yeah, don't do that. It just depends on the audience. It really depends on you have to you have to know your audience. Like at work I used to when I was in corporate, I would just be like, yeah, just not drinking want to get up early. Want to be fresh. Unknown Speaker 21:28 Yes. But I'm the last 10 years have been with people who are getting back in shape. And I've worked with a lot of a list footballers and stuff like that. And the fitness now is about getting back in shape, which covers for those people, I tell them the truth. You know, when they come in with a table, or you want a drink, and I was drinking, by the way to go do and drink, I'll just have cold coke. You're a big guy, you know, what you want to drink. Especially if it's a woman something it's like, I just have a little whiskey and like if I had a whiskey, first of all, I'm going to try to rape you. Or take you on in front of my wife. And then we're going to start fighting anybody who disagrees with me. And then I'm not going to actually get you on because I'll be arrested. What? That's what happens when I drink so I'll just have a coke. Yes, sir. And then walk away Arlina Allen 22:14 from coke coming out. One time I made the mistake and tell this guy at work. Because I go oh, I don't drink and he goes How come and I tend to break out naked. And he was off to drinks place. Oh, wrong, wrong thing to say. Break out in handcuffs. How about that? I'm allergic. Yeah, nobody scared of me fighting. I'm like five, three. That's awesome. But okay, so you know what I wanted to ask you? I did. I saw a lot of your videos and things like that. And you have this very strong personality kind of in your face thing. And there. There are some people that that that that really respond like they respond to that people who are in denial, people who just need that. I think people crave that level of accountability. People want to know where the boundaries are, so they can feel safe. But I don't think it works for everyone. How do you know who that works for I you know, since you are able to adapt to every different kind of alcoholic? I think that's part of the gift the chameleon thing, right? I'm sure you have that too. You have learned to turn that into an asset. How do you read someone to know whether the in your face kind of style works or the gentle nurturing works? Unknown Speaker 23:37 So usually the firt the first indication is where they contacted us. It's like, well, I heard this podcast and oh, my God, I love Dr. Rob cannon, that's the first one he needs in his face. And then you got a parent's recall about this 18 year old girl is second too much heroin. And you know, you need a different approach to that. So and then they need to take an assessment, one of the reasons why we have a 97% success rate, over 20 odd years, 30 years and 7000 patients is because of the assessment. So I find out real quick whether you whether you really want to do this deal. So when when we will not take anybody's money if we can't guarantee that they can recover. So the assessment kind of puts everything into place for me. And you know, most people want what I give, but there are so I have a psychotherapist that works with four girls of sorry, three girls and one guy that needs a soft approach. And that's great. We'll do that. Okay. No, but that Arlina Allen 24:35 be assessment that so you You must turn away a lot of people who don't really want it. Unknown Speaker 24:41 Yes. And that's what people can't understand, especially our so called treatment friends out there who keep checking the same person back time and time again for 30,000 a month is like I won't do that. Well, how do you survive? Well, we took almost a million dollars this year. How much did you take by being honest and straight with people because now we get to get be known like that is if you can't pass, I don't care how much money you've got. We've been offered blank checks, literally blank checks by billionaires and say fill it on yours. Unknown Speaker 25:11 Yes, they're saying, Unknown Speaker 25:12 My child is my child. I'll give you a blank check. You can do anything. You can buy your house, you can take a million you do. I'm the guy that turned down Britney Spears for a million dollars back in Dallas in the day because she came in she was drunk. She was three hours late. And she was a mess. So I said, No, I'm not doing it. Jamie at that girl bunnies are please Rob, please robbed. And the bodyguard often said, You're not leaving until you see her. So I'll put him in his place. And then two days later, she shaved all my hair off. So I won't do that. I can't lock in a parent's face and say, Hey, I'm really sorry. But she didn't want to know, I don't believe in that. If you get somebody with you, one on one, we do one hour a day for 90 days, you can change the way they think, per an Arlina Allen 25:55 hour a day for 90 days. What do you do in that hour? Unknown Speaker 25:58 Well, five days with me, and I go back and change neural pathways. And I change belief and I change behavior. And we build a future for them. So if they need a job, we'll get them on. If they need to start their own business, we'll build them a website, all this great stuff, my psychotherapist will go back to the scenes of the crime. He's specialize in childhood trauma, my number one coach, which is also my daughter, which we'll get into later, and Manchester office in England about a year ago. And she is the family, people because we believe if somebody calls, who wants help in a house, and this him, his wife and two children over the age of 16, all of them need to be in the program. We will take you on say, well, let's just be that sick. Now the house is sick, first of all, and the wife probably enabling, and she's going through some stuff, and she's probably mad or nervous breakdown. So either you all come on, or we don't see you as all Arlina Allen 26:54 that brilliant. Unknown Speaker 26:56 What do you think, you know, if you can imagine a house, let's be let's say speak Japanese. And we to take them out of the house and stick them in our houses, let's speak English, because we have a different language for recovery. So he speaks English, Japanese how still speaking Japanese. So we take the guy we're putting back into the Japanese speaking house, what's going to happen is going to start speaking Japanese. And that's one of the problems with recovery, you don't understand the family dynamic dynamics around the alcoholic, the whole family's sick and we need to heal the whole family. So we find that very unnecessarily intense work with the family dimension, the family unit. And of course, the alcoholic and the desperate wife, you know, terrible when we leave the wives alone or the husband's whoever the drinker is or the user. And we forget all about it. Because they've got the abandonment, they've got the shame, they've got the remorse they've got I always say, you know, sort of wives and husbands or partners or alcoholics or addicts, the PTSD that you have, because you have it, if you will, every one is no different from the PTSD from someone coming home from war. Now, I I love our soldiers, I'm an American citizen, I love them to bits, but just talk about the brain guys, because both of them never know it's going to be the last day, both of them never, no one's going to kick off. Both of them never know that you're not going to walk on eggshells today. It's the same thing. So the brain doesn't know the difference between war and war in the household. That's another thing that people don't understand. So the wife is going to be okay. Now she won't, you know, she will, you know, either commit suicide or do a runner or assist the alcoholic start drinking again, because she can't stand this new person that's come out. So it's really complex when when we talk about fixing, you know, it really is. And that's what we've done. We've spent 20 odd years, I do the latest brain science, I do brain spotting. What's brain spotting brain spot is a new development, that was only three people in the country or the world right now it can do it. Because it's not even, they haven't even bought a training course for it. But brain spotting is a technique that goes into the pupil and to the subconscious brain. It's a bit like a DMR. But it's it's a little different. So we're talking to the subconscious brain. And it's all about eye movement and the flicker in one eye. And then we stay with that flicker in that one eye and we find out what's caused that. And so Arlina Allen 29:17 where are they? I can see I can I see where you're going with this. So when you say that you see the eye flicker that's in the indicate and can't speak this morning. That's an indication that there is a traumatic memory there. Yes. And so you have them you see like what's happening now? Yes, that kind of thing. And the Unknown Speaker 29:36 first response, I know it's nothing, but we hold it there. We hold it. And they've got a look at the pan. And that may take five hours. It might take five minutes, but I'm staying there and all of a sudden they go Yeah, yeah. When you start talking about the traumatic event, it's the most powerful thing I've ever seen. Arlina Allen 29:56 So that's so this is what's been coming up for me lately. is there's the traumatic events like EMDR, like you mentioned, the eye movement desensitization reprocessing or reprogramming. And then there's but what do you do with the people who have the consistent pervasive trauma day in and day out? Like I was talking to a gal who had a mother who was a heroin addict, and she would hear her mother on the phone saying, we don't have enough, I need money, I need to feed my kids. Like she was using her kids as a scapegoat. And she was using her kids to get money. And but and there were times when she didn't have food. So today, she hoards food, and she has a weight issue. Right? It's and so you know, we were going to do some EMDR, or some, you know, hypnosis on that. So she goes, but it's not one situation, it's pervasive. How do you treat that pervasive, repetitive conditioning like that mental conditioning? Unknown Speaker 30:54 So we use the brain spotting, obviously, we also use a technique, which is called somatic experience, which is se people call it se. So we go back and we look at the central nervous system, and why is this being beat? Why is this happening? What's causing it, then we go into the brain, and we look at what's been happening in the past. So now we're using NLP neuro linguistic programming. So we're watching the behavior or watching the brain change and watching the trauma in the past, any patient or constantly, first of all needs to feel safe, we're getting in a safe place. And we go through that through the NLP or the SE. And we find out so then three techniques together, as as well as building confidence in the patient, that you're your own person, you know, and, unfortunately, we're going to go back, and we're going to pick them to pieces, the scene of the crime, as we call it, and then bring you forward through for the trauma through the behavior through the reaction that you have through the fear, but you haven't we walk them through bit by bit until they have clear conscience. And this takes time to deal with that in mind, Arlina Allen 32:02 yeah. Okay. So you create the safe space, you build confidence, and then bring them through those traumatic experiences with the button. So that feeling of safety and confidence overrides? Yes. Fear. Oh, 100%. That's what is the rewiring of the brain? Unknown Speaker 32:23 Yes, it's really it's resetting your pathways is what it is. Yeah. And then, and then once we've reset your pathways, and get them excited about life, the neurons start firing and get as excited. Every time we say certain things like thank you to somebody, dopamine is released into the brain, we use that a lot, you have to compliment three people every day. So it's a new technique that we have been doing for so many years, that used to call it out the box, they still call it out the box. But with the percentage rates that was on a success we had, we just really need to start looking at alternative ways to go back and fix this permanently. We don't need to go to for medication straight away. Because when we do, or, Arlina Allen 33:03 I'm sorry, go ahead and finish. Unknown Speaker 33:06 Thoughts about drugs, especially heroin addicts. 99.9% of heroin addicts started in the doctor's office, just because the doctor says it so it doesn't make it right. Or doesn't make it true. Yeah, and one of my big deals at the moment is fight against your doctor questioning why how when, what's going on? Why do I need to take this what damage is gonna do to what's the long term effect, but we don't we just go to doctors who are getting backhanders from somewhere, because the latest medication like vyvanse is out. And all of a sudden, it's the number one pill, you couldn't get it over here in Texas, you have to wait a week for vyvanse so popular he was someone who's getting something for doing that. What is five ounce vyvanse is a bit like it's it's amphetamine salts, it's it's a bit like Adderall. It's a different name on it. So when we're feeding our kids, amphetamine salts, speed is what we're giving our kids for attention deficit, when I was a kid, attention deficit was a slap across the head and say, concentrate. But there's a whole new story on that, where we go with that I can't get into it now. Because there's a lot more to explain about that. But that's that's what we do with people, you know, and we build them up and we create a life worth living. And we'll go to any lengths to do it and the length now, so doing as we have to, Arlina Allen 34:23 yeah, let me ask you, there's a lot of talk about I really don't have any judgment about about how people get sober and I understand that there's, you know, harm reduction is a thing. Yes, right. Like I get that and but I'm always I don't have enough information to make an informed decision about like the brain and the neural pathways and because while I think it's important for you know, people are smoking weed to get off heroin and that keeps them alive. God bless you. Do what you got to do. My concern is that like If the emotional and mental evolution or progress ends there, Do you have feelings about I'm sure you have feelings or opinions about like, why is harm reduction? not meant to be a permanent thing? Like how, like when I talk to people like that, how can we move them? Yes, I'm glad you're alive. If that's what's keeping you alive, I don't even have an opinion. But what about, what about one day stopping that? What about healing your brain and your dopamine reward system so that you no longer have to do that you can have the benefits of living a full life. Yeah, because I've heard of people on Suboxone for years, that's not the idea, you know, is much harder to come off Suboxone is heroin as a fact. So what we have to do is, is down step and grade and down and then taper off gradually and have an end date for that. So let's say the end date is two months or three months, we need to we need to keep heading towards that. And eventually as the brain starts to weaken up, and the central nervous system starts to activate supposed to do, and the feelings start coming back. And you realize that life is worth living and so much you've missed out on, eventually the end date will happen, and then be able to come off successfully. So depending on how far down how bad the psychosis is, how bad the day has been damaged, you cannot just stop and say, Okay, my fault drugs now, that's the worst thing in the world you can do, right best thing in the world you can do is seek doctor's help, come down and get your doctor to bring you down. Same with alcohol. I'm wherever they call me all the time, while he's drunk. Uh, you know, he's in a bad state of head. Now the bottles, don't hide the bottles, make him drink until he gets to detox. And many people are just ignorant about these because lack of now, therefore, his lack of information, though, we've been stuck in a closet for so long that you know, and that's one of the things that you want to do. Listen, when I was homeless people used to spit on me on the floor. I used to wake up and kids used to throw diapers on me that will fall. You know, having a lie. I woke up one morning, I was covered in this stuff. And I just I'm angry at that. And I'm really happy that I'm in a great place to do that today. So you know, I'm really strong on let's get a solution, a permanent solution for this minutes lotion, medication. Unfortunately, I don't think for addiction or alcoholism in general, permanent medication is not the way to go. That's in my opinion. because nothing's good enough for me. You know, we go to the sandwich shop, my friend has a sandwich and a call, I get to seminary a bag of chips, two cups, you know, I want 50,000 in the bank. Great. So when we get it Oh, it's just 100. It's crazy. So giving people drugs over lunch impaired regarding alcohol in our government, their addiction, not talking about medical, I take, I take a small drug for my depression, my antidepressant. And I'm proud of that, and I'm not coming off it. And that's the way it goes, you know, we should have that fine line between good medical advice. And don't listen to what other people say. So when it comes down to hardcore, abstinence completely 100% for that, the way we get there, wow, I don't care how you get there. When you come to me, there's an A, B, and C and you'll follow that up. People often say the difference between a therapist and what Dr. Rob's crew does, is the therapist will ask you How are you feeling? Then bastards will tell you how to feel. It's like, well, that's what it is. Because if I sat here long enough for me, and I said, I love you. I think you're the most amazing, gorgeous person I've ever seen. I want to leave my late wife tomorrow. And I want to come and find you out and marry you. You're going to laugh. But if I said it often enough, you're going to start to believe it. And if I said it real often enough, I'm going to start to believe it. So what we hear when we get these patients in sets them up for an amazing life. When's the last time somebody said you're an amazing person? When's the last time we thank somebody? I'll tell them I love you. When you start saying you stopped at a hospital walked in and thanked all the nurses. It never happens. Because especially when you get to a position like me and other people like me. I'm in the office some months ago and have two nurses there once a year once in their ages. And I heard them once said, oh my god. Did you see what Dr. Kerry just did with that guy? came in measureable suicidal, he walked out laughing and Western said bye to everybody is an absolute miracle worker 90 days. Yeah. And the older nurses said, Hey, have you told him that? And said, No, not me. They already knows. But I knows. We don't know. No, no. That's okay. So. So this is the interesting thing about, you know, the default mode network, right? That that operating system that we have in our brain and we tend to this what I've had this, you know, this observation that we need that if we've had constant conditioning of negativity, right like you were talking about repetition, you said if I tell you All these beautiful things, you're gonna start to believe that I'm gonna start to believing it's the repetition because the subconscious mind doesn't filter false from the truth. Right? It just takes, it's like the balance scale, which is kind of the good news, right? There's that idea of 51% that we're actually all you need is 51% to tip the scale, right? So it's this ongoing conditioning that that we need. So over those 90 days, they get the, you know, they get reconditioned, their mind is reset, the family is re adjusted. But the kicker is the the default mode network and going back to the old way, it's like if we don't maintain the conditioning, is it true that they go back to the old ways? What do you do for the ongoing conditioning course? Unknown Speaker 40:46 So this is my guys who are less than I'm sorry, what guys are watching? This is my self sabotage. neuropathways there's a blue plan. lymphocytes out sabotage, okay, these down here. Your small bits of self care. This runs my brain. Yes, I will self sabotage. So what this program does is it takes you from there to there, Arlina Allen 41:09 flips it over. Unknown Speaker 41:10 Yeah, so so they said never going to go away. So we need to daily maintain this by the smallest things obviously Peter, spiritual guy, you pray, covenant people at the Good Samaritan, you know, whenever I go into a room, like the room up, because if I walk into a room with a frown on my face, those people are gonna frown back. If I walk in the room and a smile on my face, most people gonna smile back. That's the hardest thing for people to do is practice smiling. You know, because the world needs leaders, you could be a leader for a day in the office or that waiting room or, you know, the elevator, you know, it's all about carrying carrying a message of Hey, you can be anything you want. And people people used to go Dr. Robert cambia president as I beg to differ today. You know, our business has just been run our country Don't tell me you can't do anything. There's no difference in somebody who comes to me almost homeless or homeless like me, and they and the CEO sat in that office above the only difference is he believed he could do it you don't want to believe that they can do it. The world is that oyster? Absolutely. Arlina Allen 42:13 People really understand how powerful beliefs are no are all in your subconscious mind. Unknown Speaker 42:20 Yeah, all powerful they are I always tell people your power but you just don't know it we need to start realizing how powerful you really are. Arlina Allen 42:28 Yes, I think you know and traditional, like 12 step record like the old school recovery is beating the drum of you're powerless you're powerless over you know, that hear it all the time. powerless over people places and things and I think I have to call bullshit on that. Unknown Speaker 42:43 Because you know, it's the face the biggest myth in a Yeah, is what because what is that once the Heartless were all put? No, it doesn't. Arlina Allen 42:51 alcohol. Unknown Speaker 42:53 What are the step one says we admitted we were powerless. How can I be power is not aware, no apostrophe in there. But people put in all powers over I'm not powerless over alcohol. I pass the liquor store. Hey, man, it's a past tense, they meant it to be a past tense. The term a permanent recovery. We had mentioned we were and our lives had now. It's all past tense once you start the steps if you've read the book, I mean, I love 12 step meetings with that big book because it's the truth. Yeah, talk about a psychic change and people go is that crystal ball? Listen, in 1938 when they were talking about a psychic change, it was changed neural pathways. 10 years ago, only 10 years ago in the medical fraternity, we found the brain was like plastic neuroplasticity they call it so same thing to change the neural pathways a mold in them in 1938 these guys were talking about that. Ai rooms right now are a joke. 90% of people in any meeting around the world is a heavy drinker. And we allow them to get away with this bullshit that come in. Oh, today I want to talk about I went to bed last night and my cat was looking bear up from my husband. Is he an alcoholic? Fuck Really? You know, we allow these guys to do that. So the real message is gone. But I've got to tell you 20 Arlina Allen 44:08 depends where you go. It did. Not only not all meetings are created. Oh, Unknown Speaker 44:13 no, they're not. They're amazing meetings. But there's the best piece of literature I've ever read. Is the 164 about about Blue Book. Oh, yeah. All the studies I've done in the world regarding that pertaining to the recovery of an alcoholic was the best book I've ever read. Arlina Allen 44:25 Yeah, I love the community that Yeah, there's so many good things but but you know, you just blew my mind with the whole we're powerless. Not we're powerless. Little apostrophe makes all the difference. And I guess the one thing that really bothers me about the 12 step community is the way some people treat the book like a new Bible. It's the religious dogmatic, like they're close minded to other things. And I wanted to ask you if you had any thoughts or opinions on, like treatment resistant depression with the use of psychedelics, I know Johns Hopkins is doing lots of studies. And there's this new like alternative recovery for people with like, intense heroin addiction or tend to alcoholism. They're doing these Iosco retreats in Costa Rica do what what are your thoughts on those? Unknown Speaker 45:16 Well, I have to be really kind of medical hair and say, hey, there's not enough data to make a decision right now. But we only know a little about the brain, we're discovering more and more every month. So why wouldn't you try that? Why wouldn't you try a different route to get to the same end result? Which is sanity? and living your best life? You know, and it may work for you? It may not? AIA may work for you. It may not. I mean, you don't have to go one place. 111 place is not the answer to everyone's problems here. The answer is to seek out the treatment that your doctor or therapist tells you to try. And I tried aect about five years ago with electronics I can't remember now trauma or something. But I was depressed, very, very depressed. And this is what my hater my career, but I did it for about four weeks best thing I ever did. Oh, my thing I ever did. Yeah, in literally four or five weeks. So I am always looking at different alternative new treatment, you know, and I don't put it down on anybody or anything from the medical fraternity that wants to be tried. Because why wouldn't we? Arlina Allen 46:23 Yeah, I've seen some just really interest. I've been hearing lots of experiences from people who talk about doing these Iosco retreats, I practice abstinence, my life is great. And I don't feel the need to I don't suffer from depression. It sounds very interesting, because it is a it sounds like a process of dissolving the ego. And really, it's like, it's like it drops the veil of denial. And you can see things clearly what you were talking about before about recognizing and acknowledging the truth, right, the truth of maybe some of the fear and the abandonment in the past. And I just found that really interesting. It'll be interesting to see what the Johns Hopkins clinical trials do. But I know of people personally who do things like the micro dosing to treat clinical depression, and things like Unknown Speaker 47:12 somebody like john hopkins university, and hospital to try this because everyone else would put a dampener on it. So I'm glad a good name in the industry. And the medical fraternity has actually taken steps to do this. I think it's absolutely amazing. But at the end of the day, it all goes back to your childhood. And you always go back to the predisposition and the heredis do facts of any illness around especially alcoholism and addiction. So it would be interesting to find out because the problem is with this world right now, is everybody knows somebody with an alcohol or drug problem. And I always say to him, if you don't, it's probably you. Because everybody knows somebody. You know, and a few times I've said that people got very quiet, and ended the conversation real quick. Yeah. So you know, let's bring it out into the open. Let's try all these things for different people and see if we can get a response. Arlina Allen 48:06 Yeah, yeah, life is short. Let's just Cut the bullshit and get to the truth. Unknown Speaker 48:11 sugarcoating. This shit kills people. And when somebody goes into a room, and a room and goes, Well, we're all powerless over alcohol. My answer is always the same. How many fucking people have you killed with that line? How many people have you killed by just saying that you self sank just son of a bitch. Read the park? If you if you stuck in is that was that mean? Read the information that tells us read it. It's awesome. Arlina Allen 48:35 Yeah, and it's not it's not only read it but apply it right we have to take action and apply the information. So it's not enough to know how we are know what we need to know the how we need to know how to apply this information. And, and listen, I just love what you're doing. It's I'm so pumped. I'm gonna leave all your links in the show notes. What's the best way to get ahold of you? If somebody is needing your help or wanting your help Unknown Speaker 49:00 jump on a Google or anything like that search engine. Just put my name in there. Dr. Rob Kelly, you'll see me websites Rob Kelly, calm I spell my name with two B's. So it's our BB k e Ll y.com. And if you want Listen, guys, I want to say something. If you're sat at home and listen to this and don't think you're worth anything and don't think you can allow anything because of your past. I want to apologize to you guys. Because somebody put that there. We are born with million dollar minds stop hanging around 10 cent minds, it's not for you. So that being said, I know people are set on going it's okay for him to do a turn to I don't know what to do. I'm going to give you my phone number here and my personal phone number. And if you're sat at home in a bad state, I'd rather come and help you right now and come to your funeral. So if you're sat at home in a bad state and want a 10 minute pep talk that will change your life. Here's my personal phone number people don't believe me. This is my cell phone number. It's not my assistance. It's not the front desk. It's 214600 zero to one, zero. Now, as you can imagine, I'm a busy guy where you call me or text me, leave a message, I will get back to you and it will be okay. Don't believe the hype. It's gonna be alright. Arlina Allen 50:12 Wow, that's impressive. I was like, Oh shit, he's really going to do it. Unknown Speaker 50:17 No, people are surprised that that you know, it just I know, I'm in the trenches with you guys. It's on to a homeless guy that got his kids taken off in, you know, that fell asleep. Last drive his kids Three days later not being changed or fed and I'm drunk on the floor, and the police drag them out of there. This is the guy that his eldest daughter said, baby, Daddy, please stop drinking and I couldn't do it. Six months later, I was homeless, the million dollar house had gone. The cars the wife, the kids, the parents, the brother and sister, I was abandoned on the street, I can do this. I'd love to sit here and tell you, I'm really clever. But I'm not. If I can do this, you can do that. You just need that 10 Mini pep talk to set you on the real track. And of course it had been helped you professionally, of course. But you do have to pass an assessment. And 75% of people that come to us fail the assessment, unfortunately, because we're the real deal. We're talking to true. Arlina Allen 51:09 accountability. I love it. Dr. Rob Kelly, thank you so much for your time today. I am so inspired and excited about the work that you're doing. I can't wait to leave all the links to all the resources and thank you so much for being the real deal and giving your phone number. That's incredible. Unknown Speaker 51:29 I know it's awesome. Thank you guys for listening and thank you Arlina you're an amazing and I love you by the way. Arlina Allen 51:34 I love you. I believe you. You have a wonderful day. Thank you so much. Thank you. Bye bye Transcribed by https://otter.ai

In case we haven’t met yet, I am a certified sobriety coach and hypnotist. I help people release childhood trauma that is at the core of addiction, without having to re-experience the traumatic events.  I have been practicing abstinence from drugs and alcohol since 4/23/94, and I believe in people finding what works for them. I honor all forms of recovery, but I do not indulge in, or encourage any form of shame based recovery.   Today I have the honor of introducing you to Blair Sharp. She’s a wife, mother and a sobriety activist. She writes for several publications on topics related to sobriety and she has a popular IG account where she shares her story and all kinds of inspiration and support to those on their recovery journey.

Thank you for downloading the podcast, my name is Arlina, and I’ll be your host.   In case we haven’t met yet, I am a certified Recovery Coach and Hypnotist. I am obsessed with all things recovery & sobriety, including neuroscience behind behavior change, reprogramming the subconscious mind, law of attraction, all forms of personal growth and spirituality. I have been practicing abstinence from drugs and alcohol since 4/23/94, and I believe in people finding what works for them. I honor all forms of recovery, but I do not indulge in, or encourage any form of shame based recovery.   Today I’m excited to share this interview with Eric Zimmer, the host behind the podcast phenomenon that is The One You Feed with about 24 million downloads. That’s HUGE! His guest list reads like the all star roster of the spirituality and recovery thought leaders. People like Father Richard Rhor, Marianne Williamson, Chris Bosh, Caroline Myss and many more of my personal heroes.    This episode is all about the science behind behavior change and how you can incorporate spiritual habits and strategies that will help you feel more connected, trusting and shoot, just feel better!   I love what Eric is doing so much, I’m going to offer a bonus to the first 10 listeners who register for his 8 week class: a full hypnotherapy session with me valued at $200. I don’t actually offer single sessions, so if you’d like to try it, now’s your chance!   All you have to do to register is email me at arlina@odaatchat.com for the sign up link or visit my website at odaatchat.com and the link will be in the episode show notes.   So with that, let’s jump into the episode, with Eric!

In case we haven’t met yet, I am a certified Recovery Coach and Hypnotist. I am obsessed with all things recovery, including neuroscience, reprogramming the subconscious mind, law of attraction, all forms of personal growth and spirituality. I have been practicing abstinence from drugs and alcohol since 4/23/94, and I believe in people finding what works for them. I honor all forms of recovery, but I do not indulge in, or encourage any form of shame based recovery. My fabulous guest today is Ashley Loeb Blassingame, CPO (Chief People Officer) at LionRock recovery, an Online Substance Abuse Counseling. Ashley was guest #121 and is here for an encore interview to talk about National Online Recovery Day, which is Sept 22.  Link to past episode: http://odaatchat.com/index.php/2020/09/15/oc121-ashley/   She also wrote: “You Are Not Alone: How to get your life back when there is a drug or alcohol problem” and is the host of the VERY popular podcast “The Courage to Change”.   Soooo little disclaimer here, the beginning of our conversation is highly inappropriate. We were giggling quite a bit because apparently, we both have a very juvenile sense of humor. But once we settle down, and I promise, it’s quick, we get right into talking about important things like how she has learned to cope with the obsession to use even though she’s in long term recovery, raising twin boys, running a company and all the while trying to stay sane.   She’s super funny, and I’m excited for you to meet her!   Oh! And just one more thing before we start: I’m working on a book project and looking for anonymous volunteers who are willing to talk with me about core wounds. I’m looking for people in recovery who were raised with absent or emotionally unavailable parents. If you are interested, your story could be featured in the book and help an untold number of people. All you have to do is email me at podcastvolunteer@gmail.com and I’ll send you a short questionnaire with additional details. and don't forget to follow the podcast on Instagram for contests, challenges and prizes! @odaatpodcast So there you have it, please enjoy this conversation with Ashley.

Thank you for downloading the podcast, my name is Arlina, and I’ll be your host.    In case we haven’t met yet, I am a certified Recovery Coach and Hypnotist. I am obsessed with all things recovery, including neuroscience, reprogramming the subconscious mind, law of attraction, all forms of personal growth and spirituality. I have been practicing abstinence from drugs and alcohol since 4/23/94, and I believe in people finding what works for them. I honor all forms of recovery, but I do not indulge in, or encourage any form of shame based recovery.   I help women heal their past and create a life they love through coaching and hypnosis. If you would like to find out if we are a good fit for coaching, please visit soberlifeschool.com and you can book a free strategy call.   Today, Matt Kelly joins us for an encore interview. He has been clean and sober for 38 years and today we are talking about his course available on Insight Timer called: Cultivate Mystical Experience in Passage Meditation. It’s a 7 day course that will teach you how you can have spiritual experiences that can lead to peace, joy, and freedom.    It’s just not enough to hear about other people’s experience. While it can be inspiring and give home, we need evidence - and having your own experiences provides evidence that change really is possible.   Matt has been a mentor and a friend to me, and while this turned into a little bit of a therapy session for me, he shares so much wisdom and compassion, that I’m really honored to share this episode with you.   So there ya have it, please enjoy this conversation with Matt.

Today, my guest is Dr. Mona Bahlough. Before she retired, she spent 27 years treating patients in the emergency room where she was exposed to a lot of “frequent fliers” as she called them. People who had severe chronic health problems related to alcoholism and drug addiction. She’s going to share how NOT to wind up like that.   Also, if you’ve been sober for a while and you’re still struggling with feelings like anger, guilt, & shame, I’d like to invite you to consider hypnosis. If you don’t know a lot about hypnosis, it’s a process of healing that addresses feelings at the root case, in the subconscious mind where all your memories, beliefs and habits reside. Hypnosis is a way to resolve negative feelings and beliefs that cause self-sabotaging behaviors. By addressing these deep seeded feelings and beliefs, you can free yourself faster than traditional modalities that work from the outside in.    Hypnosis is about working inside out for lasting behavioral change. If you would like to find out if my coaching program is a good fit for you, just book a free call by visiting soberlifeschool.com   So there ya have it, please enjoy this conversation with Dr.Mona!

Guest Links:   www.lisakelly.life Instagram: lisaakelly.life Please Subscribe to the Podcast on iTunes, Stitcher, and YouTube! Be sure to follow me on Instagram too! @odaatpodcast and @arlinaallen The One Day At A Time Recovery Podcast has been featured here: https://blog.feedspot.com/sobriety_podcasts/

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Book recommendation: Alcoholics Anonymous Favorite Mantra: God is love  What I wish I knew:    Please Subscribe on iTunes, Stitcher, and YouTube! Be sure to follow me on Instagram too! @odaatpodcast and @arlinaallen     Title: OC167 Anthony - Recovery from Alcoholism, True Honesty, and Being A Firefighter   Social Media Post:  Click here to listen: https://bit.ly/3raCwua     Show Notes:    Hello Loves,   Thank you for downloading the podcast, my name is Arlina, and I’ll be your host.    Today, my guest is a dear friend from back home, Anthony. He’s been sober 32 years and got sober and stayed sober when he was 24! Proof that you can stay sober, even if you’re young.   In my last newsletter “Adventures in Recovery” I shared links to my current favorite podcast episode, an interview by Tim Ferriss with Dr Andrew Huberman, a neuroscientist at Stanford Univ. They were talking about how to rewire your brain for positive behavior change. Super validating since I’m in the process of certification for practicing hypnosis in my current coaching practice.   I also shared a powerful meditation that I’m currently using for emotion management. Love it.   And the latest book recommendation about how to use the breath for better sleep and mental focus. I struggle with ADHD so this was really enlightening for me personally.   This week’s newsletter will have some insights on the latest book I’m reading called “E Squared - 9 do it yourself energy experiments that prove your thoughts create your reality” by Pam Grout. It is literally blowing my mind!! I love the fact that we don’t always have to have faith, we also have science. So there ya have it, please enjoy this conversation with Anthony!

Guest Links:   Holistic Coach Training Institute Web: www.holisticcoachtraininginstitute.com Email: info@holisticcoachtraininginstitute.com   Book recommendations:    Loyalty to Your Soul: The Heart of Spiritual Psychology, by H. Ronald Hulnick PhD, Mary R. Hulnick PhD, et al : https://amzn.to/3hI44mA   A New Earth: Awakening Your Life's Purpose, by Eckhart Tolle https://amzn.to/2Uuf3In   The Seat of the Soul, by Gary Zukav https://amzn.to/2SUZetL   Favorite Mantra: Awareness, Presence, Relaxation   What I wish I knew: To connect more vs being self reliant

Get Sober, Stay Sober, Go Deeper All the information on how to get sober (or anything really) is out there for free. The trick is in knowing HOW to apply the information. In this video you will learn 3 secrets to applying it to your life. Want help? Schedule a free strategy call at : http://www.SoberLifeSchool.com

Today I’m going to be talking about the H.O.W. of recovery, the three guiding principles that will help you get sober. A friend of mine actually interviewed me for an article that was published on Huffington Post with the same title, and I want to share it here. Those of us in the 12 step community are very familiar with this, but if you haven’t taken that leap yet, this is really important information to have.

Guest Links:    www.authoredkressy.com https://www.defyventures.org/   Book recommendation:  Dreamseller: An Addiction Memoir by Brendon Novak https://amzn.to/2UMjGNS American Fix: Inside the Opioid Addiction Crisis - and How to End It by Ryan Hampton https://amzn.to/3hplAvG Aiming High: How a Prominent Sports and Celebrity Agent Hit Bottom at the Top by Darren Prince https://amzn.to/366gDCw   Favorite Quote: To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. - Lao Tzu What I wish I knew: How important service is. To advocate for others. Please Subscribe on iTunes, Stitcher, and now YouTube! Be sure to follow me on Instagram too! @odaatpodcast and @arlinaallen

Guest Links:    www.authoredkressy.com https://www.defyventures.org/   Book recommendation:  Dreamseller: An Addiction Memoir by Brendon Novak https://amzn.to/2UMjGNS American Fix: Inside the Opioid Addiction Crisis - and How to End It by Ryan Hampton https://amzn.to/3hplAvG Aiming High: How a Prominent Sports and Celebrity Agent Hit Bottom at the Top by Darren Prince https://amzn.to/366gDCw   Favorite Quote: To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. - Lao Tzu What I wish I knew: How important service is. To advocate for others. Please Subscribe on iTunes, Stitcher, and now YouTube! Be sure to follow me on Instagram too! @odaatpodcast and @arlinaallen

Teri, AKA as “TransGrams”. She Shares Her Recovery Journey and Transgender Transformation

Well, thank you for joining me, my friends on this solo episode of the one data time podcast. Today I'm going to be talking about the how of recoveries, three guiding principles that will help you get sober. A friend of mine actually interviewed me for an article that was published on Huffington Post and the article title was the house of recovery, three principles that can help you break free of addiction for good and I just kind of want to go over it because you know, those of us in the 12 step community are very familiar with this. But if you haven't taken that leap yet, this is really important information to have. So how stands for honest, open minded and willing and so that it all starts with the the honesty piece? I don't know if it was like a Albert Einstein, I think it was an Albert Einstein quote that said, have a problem can't be solved with the same level of consciousness that created it. That was one of the quotes that blew my mind. And so I really had to get honest about what was actually happening. It was the honesty about it wasn't, we want to be judged by our intentions, but people actually judge us by our actions, right. And so I had to get really honest with others about my own behavior, to get honest with myself, right? I was feeling like I was a victim, that, like I was at the effect of life instead of the cause. And so really, starting with that honesty, was, that was really my starting point, right? It's like a problem can't be solved. Until we acknowledge that there is a problem. sounds completely obvious, right? But when it comes to breaking addictions, we go into denial. Because, you know, we're using be that's our coping skill. It's like our best friend, it's, you know, it's the one thing that we feel like is saving us but, you know, when I first got sober, it was like, the thing that was saving me my savior turned into my executioner, right, like, I hate to be dramatic, but that's how it was like I was drunk driving. I was, you know, I was binge drinking. I wasn't physically addicted. I guess I didn't have like DTS in the morning. But I was a heavy binge drinker. And so you know, you suffer things like alcohol poisoning. You could i i've seen her. Over the 27 years, I've been sober people die from like a fixie ation, or alcohol poisoning. I unfortunately had a friend from high school who died from alcohol poisoning. And her husband and children found her on the couch is so terrible. It's the denial about how bad things are. Right? That's, that's it's the seek, it's was that thing. You're only as sick as your secrets, right? It's the secrets and the lies that keep us sick. So starting with the honesty, we just got to get really honest about where our lives are at how alcohol is affecting us, and how our behavior while drinking and doing drugs as affecting others. Right. So getting really honest about what's going on. And then the second one is open mindedness. There's this quote that I heard very, in the very beginning, it's the saying contempt prior to investigation. And a lot of times people will sort of like be dismissive about information before they actually have an opportunity to apply it. Right. So it's important, it's important to, you know, just stay open minded. And, you know, once you sort of open to the idea that there's another way of life, you know, when the student is ready, the teacher appears. That's a very famous old quote. I think it's the Lao Tzu. But anyway, having an open mind means that you become teachable. You know, just keep in mind that all your best ideas got you to this point, right? So maybe it would be helpful to be open minded and get some new information, so that you can make different decisions and take different actions, right, this is a lot of this is about cause and effect really, it's not personal, right? It's just cause and effect. So with the open mindedness about what's really going on honesty about what's going on the open mindedness to new information, new ways to approach challenging situations. That moves us then to the willingness piece, willingness, you know, in Alcoholics Anonymous, they say, doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result is the actual definition of insanity. So until we are willing to take action and actually do something different, nothing changes. So By being willing and maybe even desperately willing, that can be the catalyst that you need to take suggestions from these people. You know, it's sort of like the model of the apprentice, right? The Apprentice learns from the masters. It's just like role modeling, right? You seek out the people who have what you want, and then do what they do. It invokes the law of cause and effect, right? It works for everyone. So those are really the three things open, honest, open minded and willing willingness to, you know, do something different. So that is sort of the wrap up of the how of recovery. I mean, it'd be doing lots of little short. So if this is helpful to you, please subscribe. If you're watching this on YouTube, you can hit the little bell. And that will give you a notification when new little solo episodes are available. So I hope that was helpful. If you need any help, you can reach out to me at sober life school.com you can have a free strategy session, I will jump on the phone with you. I will listen to anything that you want to tell me and we can come up with a strategy that will help you to stop drinking. So reach out You are not alone. I'm here to help. I know tons of people that are willing to help. You can do it for free. You can go to 12 step programs, refuge recovery, Celebrate Recovery. I am a coach, I can help you orchestrate organize all your different resources. I don't care how you do it. The idea is that you just get sober. If I can be of assistance. Let me know. Thanks for hanging out with me and we'll talk again real soon.  

YouTube Link:  https://youtu.be/uuZU9WtXbNc   Guest Links:   SugarAddiction.com/Arlina   Book recommendation: Recovery Rising: A Retrospective of Addiction Treatment and Recovery Advocacy, by William L White https://amzn.to/3xxE974   Favorite Quote: “It takes everything it takes” What I wish I knew: “That at 28 when I first got sober, I was still really young.”

  I'm so excited to talk to you. You and I are part of the she recovers. Coaching community. And you and I have been doing lots of work together. Gosh, it's been a while since you went through the podcasting class, but we had so much fun I have, I just want to thank you publicly for all the generous support that you've given me. And you're such an inspiration for me and many people you're really generous with, with what you have. So sweet. Yes, it's I mean, it's my pleasure, right? Those of us who sort of been to the edge and have sort of survived, we do feel this impulse, this natural impulse to try to save people from their suffering. And so and you know, right back atcha sister, it's like, I love all the work that you're doing. You're you've just been doing a ton of work and, and helping other people recover, and, you know, come out of their suffering. So, yeah, fun. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I love collaborating. I love being inspired and hearing what other people are doing. And I'm definitely in the stage where I met with, you know, everything I'm doing that I'm having fun with it. It's like playful, it is playful, and you're doing so much good work. So you're launching a podcast, you're coaching, you're just you're doing classes, so blasts lots and lots of stuff. So, as I've been doing lately, we're gonna start with the lightning round. Are you cheated? You already heard somebody else's? Oh, definitely. I prepared a fair. Yeah, I wanna I want to be, you know, not too good care of myself taking care of that. Inner Child work, right. There's always now Okay, speaks about taking care of teenage Savelle in this situation. Okay. That is awesome. Because I didn't don't really, you know, I've been sober for a long time. And I don't know if I've actually already done inner child work. But I can't wait to hear about your perspective on that. Yeah. Good. Okay, we'll get into the inner child stuff. But let's do a lightning round questions. What's your favorite? What was your favorite recovery book when you first got sober? Yeah, I love that question. Because it brought me back to probably like 2010, I was at the grocery store. And I was, you know, I had my wine in my cart. And I remember looking, you know, how they have all those magazines, as you're checking out. I don't even remember which magazine, it was like a woman's day or one of those. And there was a title of an article that said, mommy doesn't drink here anymore. And I grabbed it and hit it and bought it, read the article, and then threw it away. But that was really the beginning of planting the seed for me that that was something I wanted to look at. And I remember in the magazine article, she said, You have to tell one person, and I thought to myself, no way. Not telling anybody. So then, I got sober in 2011. And I thought about her in that article. And I googled, mommy doesn't drink anymore. And it was a book. And so the, you know, the magazine article was probably four because of the book. And I Her name is Rachel brown now. And I ordered the book and read it. And that led me I'm not even exactly sure. But somehow that led me to the online group for well, and it took me to the bfb, which is the booze free Brigade, which was a private Yahoo, I think was Yahoo group. And that led me to a secret Facebook group and that was kind of like the beginning for me of that's where I met Don Nicole, that's where I met all the women that I still know today who are in my gratitude group and and just yeah, led me to she recovers and, and all of that. So that was that. That's the book that I you know, would say was like the most instrumental for me for planting the seed is mommy doesn't drink here anymore. Mommy doesn't drink anymore. That is amazing. Yeah. You mentioned on Nicole and she is the co founder of Shiva covers and I think they're one of their Facebook groups has a total of like 300,000 women on it. I mean, there's Yeah, the page the business page has at least 300,000 and then there she covers together private Facebook group is over 8000 right now. It really it really blew up over the with the pandemic of women, you know who who were looking for support or trying to get sober during during quarantine. Yeah, and we both facilitate meetings now I can say that after you helped me, coach me, it was so funny because when I did my first group, there were a couple of women who had actually been listening to the podcast for a couple of years. And it was so sweet. Were they were they knew you, they were probably super excited to meet you. And, yeah, that's such a great opportunity. We're volunteer hosts, because it is a nonprofit now, and that it's a beautiful way to kind of, you know, connect women. Yeah. Yeah. You know, they say that. alcoholism is a disease of isolation and connection is the cure. Right? I love that. Yeah. Okay. So that's a great, that's a lot of resources, where they're looking at us. So we got a book booth free brigade grew. she recovers page and group. So awesome. I love tons of resources. Do you have a regular self care practice? Is it like daily, weekly? How do you dress your self care? Yeah, I love that question, too. I'm gonna say that for everyone, I love all of your questions. I love that question too, because I really thought about it. And I would say everything down to breath. Probably breath is the one that I use the most. And so that's just like pausing mindfulness, take a deep breath in, hold it, exhale, I do throughout the day. So that would be I would say like the easiest and most simple one all the way to you know, weekend long retreats. that have been a way that personally I up up level, my recovery is by connecting with women in a weekend or week long retreats. So I've done several of those, but and then everything in between is, um, I do go to meetings to gatherings. I'm part of, like I said before, I'm actually have two gratitude groups. I love podcasts. So all of those are part of my self care in the way that I helps me stay connected. Getting out into nature, meditation, good sleep, nutrition. Yeah, just pausing. Like the whole self regulation thing. I feel like you know, once you let go the alcohol, you have to figure out a way to self regulate. So my self care is about self regulation. I love that. Yeah. So do you in the morning. Do you have like a little routine that you do like, like mine is prayer, meditation and journaling? Yeah, I mean, mine is usually a coffee. First thing coffee. My first coffee, yeah, coffee, and then absolutely like the, you know, beautiful music, I actually have the privilege of looking out at the ocean. I live in Miami, Florida. And so I look out and look at the color of the ocean. Any form of stretching or movement? Anytime I get outside, so yeah, I mean that, you know, and just connecting, I try to do my gratitude. I don't always but I try to do it in the mornings and, and just differencing with others. What a difference it makes to do it in the morning, right kind of sets the tone for the whole day days that I miss it. I totally feel it. That I was just gonna say that when I don't, then you know, I love this idea of like, you can start your day over at any time. You've heard that. And, and I do notice that if I haven't really been attentive, I've spent too much time scrolling too much time online. That I think okay, I really need to take a break right now and do some me time and reconnect. Yeah, something that about two o'clock in the afternoon. I'm like, I just need to like replenish in some way. I love the breathing the breath work stuff that you do. That's very helpful. Yeah. Let's, um, and what's one thing you wish you knew when you first got sober? I think that has to be the shame component. Like I wish I when I first got sober, I was so so ashamed. And so a lot of my stories about hiding, hiding when I drank and then hiding when I got into recovery. And I think like if I could go back to my younger 47 year old self, I would say you're going to be okay, and you can let go of the shame. This is not your fault. And you're beautiful and I love you. But there's so much shame and I think, you know, like that's kind of attached to what we're talking about the anonymity like for me, anonymity had less to do with a tradition and more to do with my shame. And so I think that that's kind of the part that I if I could go back to my younger stuff I would hug her and say you don't have to be ashamed. I love that. Yeah, I wrote down your okay. It's not your fault. Right? All these things that maybe we did that we're not so proud of were things that we did we listen, I've just believed that everybody is doing the best that they can. Right. Yeah, I believe that I know that today. Yeah, I did not know that in the beginning. Yeah. And we Yeah, you and I talked a little bit about anonymity before we started recording. And we'll definitely dig into that, because that's something I also had to wrestle with, as well. Especially launching a podcast for about four and a half years ago. It's uh, yeah, you definitely have to come to grips with that. What do you do for fun these days? So fun for me would be a bike ride with my adult children and a Friday night kind of mini dance party cooking together with my husband. That was like just hanging out with with my family and something really simple, like a bike ride. I love bike riding. Yeah. Cooking while your husband actually dance the cooking dance party. How's life? Ooh, from Spain, so he's, yeah, he actually does most of the cooking. He loves to cook. It's his love language. And he cooks for me every day. My husband My husband is does the majority of the cooking too. Although I will. I will confess that I am loving. I love YouTube. I learned how to make sushi this weekend. Oh, that's so fun. Yeah, it was super fun. So yeah, I love I love I do love cooking, do it. But right now he has more time than me. And our kids are grown. We have three children. And they're grown and they're gone. And he really loves cook. It relaxes him. And so we both love cooking, but that's really his love language. That is so nice to have. Yeah, likes to cook. Awesome. Well, thank you for playing along with the lightning round. So typically, what I do next is I would love to hear sort of your recovery story a little bit about what your family was like, and you know, maybe why you started drinking. And then what happened, that you decided that you wanted to stop if that was indeed I mean, at some point, I'm sure along the story, you decided you wanted to stop. So I would love to know how your journey went? Yeah, sure. Thanks for asking. So let's see, um, I was born in New Jersey, I'm the oldest of three girls. We lived there until I was in fifth grade. And the big kind of traumatic event that happened was when I was in second grade, my dad died. And he was young. He was 45 years old. And he died of heart failure. And he I do have a half brother and half sister from my dad's first marriage. But when we were in when 1975 when I was in fifth grade, my mom said, Hey, girls, do you want to move to California? And I was like, Yeah, let's go. She said there was this beautiful tunnel with a rainbow on it across the Golden Gate Bridge. And it sounded fun. And so we moved to California. And up until that point, I had been at a small school that had farm animals. And, you know, I was I had friends and it was a very kind of sheltered, simple childhood, in that sense. And when we moved to California, I went into a very big school and experienced bullying. So I mean, now I can trace it back to the fact that my dad died. And then the move and then the bullying like those are what would lift your your a score your adverse childhood experiences. And so I had one friend, and she's in sixth grade, and she moved away and I just I had a really hard time for about four years. So sixth, seventh, eighth and ninth grade, were pretty rough for me. And then in 10th, my mom could see that I was really struggling. And by 10th grade, she said, we're going to switch schools and you're going to go into a different school and on day one, I met a group of girlfriends and we instantly all hit it off and within a week or two had gone to my first keg party. So I put you know, hand in hand, I was maybe 14 or 15 by then I was a sophomore. I you know, for me just hand in hand went popularity, friends, alcohol, and it wasn't like my first drink. Like some people describe their very first drink as being so magical. I barely remember it. But I do remember it. Feeling like drinking meant I could be, I could connect and have friends and all that. And so everyone that I kind of hung out with and you knew, drank the way I drank. And it was very normalized. I mean, this is the 80s in California. And I kept drinking through high school, college, went to Spain met my husband, we met in a bar. And it was something I did not worry about. It wasn't I'm not one of those people that got sober really young, I now can look back and think, you know, I really liked alcohol, but I wouldn't say it was interfering with my life. And then we, we moved, my husband and I moved to California, and then we moved to Miami, we had three children. And my drinking started to increase in my 40s. And by that time, I was homeschooling my three kids. And I was trying my hardest to be the perfect mom. That's really like, My story is around perfectionism, worrying about what other people thought trying to do the best job ever taking, taking on too much staying too busy, and not really having any other way to self regulate, except for wine. And that was my thing was, you know, my glass of wine at the end of the day, which, you know, started to become more and more of a habit, then it became a daily, a daily habit, until I was 47. And I had stopped, I would stop drinking when I wanted to lose weight. So that's that, you know, for me, like not drinking meant calories and all of that stuff. And then I would get to a goal weight, and I would just bring it back in. And I started to notice that every time I brought it back in it, I would get right back to the amount that I was drinking before. And so I'm in February of 2011, I decided to stop drinking, but I didn't have a problem. So I didn't need to get help. You know, for me, it was like, You cut out chocolate, you cut out wine, you just you just do this, and you just you know was that whole like self will. And, um, that didn't work. Because four months later, you know, I didn't understand that I was you had been using alcohol to numb and regulate my feelings. So four months later, um, I picked it up again. And that took me very quickly to to July of 2011. When I literally from from one moment to the next I was like, Oh, I have a problem. So I wouldn't have like, identified myself as having a problem. I just had a problem with managing it. I thought if I can just keep all these fires burning, I can continue to do this thing. And luckily, that I mean, for me, you know, thank goodness, I, I woke up, I woke up and you know, I had a moment of clarity. And I realized I can't keep doing this. And so I reached out for help. And I stopped. That's it. So yeah, you into did you go through the traditional 12? I think I already have my answer to this 12 step. We're not going to say which one? Absolutely. I reached out to a family member and she took me to my first 12 which was wonderful. I remember it so well. And I got sober in Seattle. I was on vacation. I was on vacation at my mom's. And it was wonderful. I remember it was a very packed room. And I walked in and I was like deer in the headlights. I had thought I believe that I was totally alone in this. There was nobody like me. I was bad. And nobody else was as bad as I was. And I walked in and I was like all these people too. And I remember there was a little old lady, like across from me and she's knitting. And I thought she had a problem with alcohol too. And it just made me want to cry. Yeah. And then in that meeting, they have greeters in Seattle and the greeter when I can't gotten, you know, arrived, he greeted me and we said hello. And as I was leaving, because they asked us anybody on day one, I said I am and when I was leaving, he said just remember two things. Love yourself and no matter what Don't pick up the first strike, which I thought was just, you know, of course I've heard it since but it was so profound to me. And I was like, Okay, okay, I can do that. That's like a recipe card, you know, do these two things I can do that. things I can do. Right. And I thought to myself at the time, what does loving myself have to do with this? Oh, yeah, yeah, right. I know. It's like, what does that have to do with this? Okay, sure. Why? And I'm sure enough, two weeks later, I remember thinking to myself, Oh, maybe just one drink? And I'm like, Oh, no, no, that guy told me no matter what, don't make up the first one. And that's kept me sober since Oh, my gosh, that's amazing. Love yourself. And it's so funny, because a lot of the language and information doesn't seem to make sense at first. But after repeated exposure and some context, it all starts to make sense. We get a sense of what to apply where, and yeah, it's the simple truth. Love yourself, and don't pick up the first drink Bowser. Yeah, great. So you got a sponsor and did the whole the whole thing I did I did your sponsor? Oh, she walked up to me. Oh, isn't that nice? She walked up to me. What so my story is, is that when I came back to Miami, I did drive bys where I knew where the location was, but I was like, too busy. And really what it was, is I was so afraid of seeing somebody who I knew, I will comment Oh, wrapped up in my own kind of reputation and the shame that we talked about. And so I actually didn't go to two meetings for four months. And finally, I talked to another family member. And I was like, yeah, you know, I don't drink anymore. And she was like, how do you love the meetings? And I was like, Well, I don't really do those. And she's like, well, that's kind of part of it. And so I was like, okay, and, and so she say, Fine, a woman's meeting, they're gonna, you're there, they will love you, being a newcomer. They're just gonna love you. And I said, Okay, and so I knew where to go. And I went, and then I just started going, and then right away, like I said, that person walked up to me, and she was like, hey, do you want need a temporary sponsor? And I said, Yeah, and that was the beginning. And I, yeah, transformational is, is really, you know, everything. The way I look at it is nothing, not very much changed. On the outside. I don't want to say nothing. But really, from the outside, probably nobody noticed. You know, I had a lot of people tell me, I didn't even think you had a problem. And yeah, you know, and I just, I think I hit it really, really well. And from the outside, you would say, nothing's changed, everything changed. For me on the inside. I mean, I don't do not even, it's hard for me to remember what it felt like to be me before 40, you know, earlier and I, it's like, I feel like the way I like to describe is I get to live in a parallel universe. I completely right. Totally moved over to this whole other way of being where you connect, and you have deep conversations like you and I are having right now. For sure. It's it's just a different way of being and looking inside for like when things bother you looking at yourself and all the other things that I was never interested, I was never interested in any of those, you know, therapy or meditation or sitting quietly or that's so funny. So it sounds like you're just very high functioning. And, and I hear that a lot from people that are high functioning is that the the outside opinions of people that are high functioning? It's like, Oh, I don't think you have a problem. Did your husband ever tell you he was worried about your drinking? Yes. So I yeah, I wouldn't say I was high functioning. He definitely was like, Hey, you got to pull yourself together. But we didn't really understand any of this, you know, and my kids notice, but really, that was about it. I mean, maybe I don't know, I don't really know if other people noticed, you know, I thought of myself as a party girl. And I was I was very you know, I loved anything frenetic and hyper and pop, you know, like, that was the way I was coping was keeping really busy and being kind of hyperactive. And now I can see that's I was self medicating. Yeah, right. Did you experience a blood lockouts are like losing periods of time or did you get fired from jobs or DUIs or anything like that? No, no, no DUIs. I mean, I was a stay at home mom. So me to get fired from here. I didn't I didn't fire myself. Yeah, I was, you know, full time stay at home homeschooling mom. So, you know, no, no outer consequences no DUIs nothing like that. I would say towards the very and that's another book that I love, by the way is blackout. I think it's a hot pursuit papilla you're the second person to recommend that. That's a really good. Oh, really? That's a really I really enjoyed that book. And that's been interesting to me. I would say by the end. I haven't you didn't black out. What I was gonna say is by the end. Yeah. By the end, I had some brownouts. Definitely where I was, I would you know, by the very end, I was in conversations, and then afterwards, it would be, you know, chunks of time where I was not, you know, remembering it all the next day. All the time. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, you Oh, yeah. Not even sober again. Right? I did. I got sober when I was 25. But I started drinking, probably when I was like, 10. Not I mean, I obviously didn't drink every day. But I started drinking super young and black started blacking out almost immediately. Oh, if you haven't read that book, then you'd be super interested because she really gets into kind of the biology because not everybody blacks out. I know. That's so crazy. I feel sorry for people who have to remember everything. Now I remember feeling like I remember when I first started drinking, I was like junior high, like on the weekends with friends. And I remember thinking, like, parts of the evening were like dreams. I was like, was that a dream? Or Did that really happen? That kind of thing. But I think the very first time I drank, I just remember, like, I did miss pieces of the evening. But yeah, that that was crazy. I started way too young. But yeah, definitely at the end, I had like no recollection of like entire evenings. Well, I mean, maybe that's what got you into recovery. So if you were if you were blacking out almost from the get go. I mean, you like you said from the very first time that you tried. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, that's so that's your brain constitution? I think. I mean, that's kind of what that book is about. It's super interesting. I'll check it out. Yeah. Okay. So I also am aware, and you don't have to answer this question if you don't want to, but I am aware that you had some trauma in your past and that stuff that you've been addressing lately, do you want to just share as much or as little about that? Yeah, I feel comfortable with? Yeah, um, you know, I just recently did a bubble hour interview, and I talked about it on there. And just to say that I do have part of, you know, my recovery is from sexual trauma. And that did happen in my childhood. Like I said, my dad died. And so this was with one of my mom's boyfriends. And the interesting thing about it is that, of course, I think maybe I was nine or 10. At the time, I, you know, you've nothing to compare it to. So you don't know. And I normalized it. And it kind of just got tucked away. And it wasn't something that I ever really even worried about, or thought about. I mean, early on. And when I first got sober and told my story, it wasn't part of my story. And it wasn't until the me to movement, that I, I revisited it, and I actually revisited with my mom. And she and I were both talking about our HDMI two stuff. And it kind of came forward then. And I took it to my therapist, and I was like, hey, but what was that about? And that was kind of the beginning of me really looking at it from a different angle. And so I have done the work around it. And now I guess I'm talking about it public. You know, yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's a very it's a difficult subject, you know, but it's very common. I also had sexual trauma when I was growing up, and for me, it defined who I was thought I was, right? It happened to me really young, and it was a repeated thing, but it happened to me. really young. It defined who I thought I was, it made me feel like I As a bad person, did you also wrestle with those things? Or you said you normalized it. So does that mean? You didn't feel bad about it? No, um, I felt like I. I dealt with it in the moment. And I did not, I don't know. But I don't feel like I felt bad about it. And I didn't actually even dislike the person, because he remained in our lives. I mean, he was around us, and he was a nice person. And so now, as an adult, I can say, I'm glad I was, I was kind of feisty, and I stood up for myself. And I'm glad that I did that. And yeah, I don't, I don't, I don't know, I don't know the extent of it, I do know that there are certain things that I've stored in my body. And this was where the inner child stuff comes in. Because if I can just tell you like how I even got interested in inner child work is really connected to this. Tell me about what inner child work means to you can maybe can define it a little bit and maybe share some practice. I mean, I think the way I look at it is your inner child is really the part of your mind your brain that was formed in childhood. So it's like your emotions, your beliefs, your stories, the things that scare you how you felt abandoned, that all formed in childhood, and how you are now interacting in the world, in your adult body. Based on those fears, and beliefs and stories that you might not even be aware of. So it could be subconscious, right? So, for example, one of mine is angry people scare me. So if I'm in a public place, and someone's yelling, I will feel really tense and like, become hyper alert. Um, I'm very hyper vigilant. And now I understand that that's stuff from my childhood. And so things like that, like interacting with the world today, with beliefs and fears that were started in childhood. That's kind of how I look at it. So really, going back and doing inner child work is really re parenting. That part of you that got scared. Okay, I love that re parenting the part of you that got scared or felt abandoned or, right. And the thing about doing it, the inner child work is that it's hard to see things like sometimes we have this idea that, you know, like abandonment has to be this big traumatic thing, right? I might it but it might not be a big dramatic thing. You know, some like some people say big t trauma, little t trauma. It might be just something like being scared going into kindergarten, or being worried when your mom went out, you know, in the evening and put lipstick on, I remember my mom putting on perfume and feeling like oh, no, she's gonna leave. Now. That's not, you know, a huge abandonment, but it's how I felt. So it's how it's kind of like the the ideas that were formed in childhood that you bring with you into adulthood. Okay. Yeah, I like the differentiation between little t trauma and big t trauma, because I feel like trauma is like on a scale, just like addiction is on a scale. It's like a spectrum. I should maybe I should say, a spectrum where Yeah, low grade, and then it. It can be, you know, did you feel abandonment, like when your father passed away, like, obviously, it wasn't his choice. But did you have to deal with feelings of abandonment from when your father died? Yeah, I mean, it was mostly just grief. Like, it's so much sadness, like, Oh, I don't get to. I didn't get to say goodbye. I don't get to see him again. And then, yeah, absolutely. My, I have great memories of my father. And, you know, one day he was gone, he died of a heart attack so sudden, and I was at the end of second grade. And it was a big loss. It was definitely a big loss. I missed him. I still do. Yeah, 57 I still do because really, you know, when you're a kid, you kind of just make do and it was just part of our reality, and our dad died. You know, that was part of our reality. But then when I met my husband, and on my wedding day, I was like, Oh, I wish you were here. When I had my children. I was like, Oh, I wish that they knew grandpa Gerard and I kind of kept him alive and for my for my kids by talking about him. But even the other day, I was thinking I really wish he was around, you know, yeah, he sounds like a cool guy. Yeah, he was amazing. Okay, so I want to transition a little bit to So now, I mean, so you've been gotten public with some very intimate information. And thank you so much for sharing that. Because, you know, that is part of normalizing, you know, things that happened to us, it's part of normalizing pain. And you and I had had a discussion before about anonymity because I was also got sober through 12 step programs, and anonymity is the foundation of, you know, the whole the whole thing. And while I get the need for privacy and anonymity, because like you, I was scared to death, that I would run into somebody I know, it didn't like, taught on me, that was not funny. But if they were there, they were they too, were also struggling. So funny. Didn't quite connect the dots. Right? Again, if they are in the same room, it's for the same reason for the same reasons. But I did. I did appreciate having that sort of shelter and protection of the anonymity. So I feel like there's a time and a place for it. But then again, in our broader society, there's it's still so shocking to me how stigmatized, mental health issues are, you know, like people like, Oh, don't I told the lady not too long ago, we were talking about the coming out process of when you're in recovery, or you don't drink or do drugs, or whatever. It's like, you pick and choose the timing of when you tell somebody and you share that information. I shared it with somebody recently. She gasped. She was like, Oh, really? I thought that was so funny. Yeah, really? I was like, ah, not you. Yeah, that's me. Yeah, I mean, we we're in such a different space now. Because we're in a place where we celebrate recovery. I mean, pretty much everyone I interact with, over. So it's, it's so you know, it just feels like so normal to me. Now. It's, it's, but it's absolutely. You know, the truth is, that it is stigmatized, and there is kind of shame. Still, I feel like it's rapid. And I really don't know why. The anonymity, you know why that was that way in the late 1930s, and 40s. Um, you know, I just, I don't really know the history of it. And I do feel like for reasons for mental health, that that there needs to be a coming out there needs to be lessening of the stigma. And it's going to only happen when we recover out loud. So you know, so part of the history is that there were two things that spurred on the anonymity from what I understand is that the people who were, you know, as funny is people used to get sober through letters, like they would No, I've heard Yes, not while Yeah, so it's like people now who are getting sober on zoom. You know, to me, I'm like, that's a step up from how they used to do it in the beginning, right? Imagine trying to, you know, process your feelings, and you write it in a letter and you send it in your way, like maybe a couple weeks before you get a response. That's so nuts. But in the beginning, these people what there were so few of them, that they had to be anonymous, because they were inundated with requests for health. There were there was like nothing out there. And there were just 1000s millions of people who are struggling. And then the other thing was, is that they were also anonymous, because they felt that it would limit their financial prospects. Like if it got out that they were a quote unquote, alcoholic, that they would not be employable. And so those two things are outdated, Reagan can totally get a job, if you are, you know, in recovery, and there are lots and lots of people available to help. So I feel like we really need as a community, we really need to revisit the whole idea of anonymity, because I'm with you, we need to recover out loud. That's how the information gets out there. Absolutely. Yeah. And I think each person gets to do it in their own way. But it shouldn't be that we can't talk about it or that if we do talk about it, we're so ashamed. And I think you know, like, like you said, like if you have to stay anonymous because you're afraid you're not going to be able to get a job or you'll be fired for your job. I think that There's still some of that around the people feel like that what, you know, we're worried about what other people think of us. And I, you know, when I likened it to, if I had anything else, any other kind of disease, you know, I don't know about the disease model or how you feel about that. But if I had anything else, and I was able to just let people know, I'll give you an example. Okay, so my daughter was a Girl Scout, and in the Girl Scout troop, um, oh, I think everybody else, all the other women were breast cancer survivors, and, you know, pink ribbon all the way and they talked about it openly. And I remember one time the topic of addiction came up, and someone said, Oh, my brother in law or money, you know, this type of thing. And I remember just staying quiet, and feeling maybe mad at myself that I didn't say anything, but also feeling like why didn't really have a place to sit, you know, like, and I thought to myself, where's my pink ribbon? You know, like, I want to be able to say, like, this is my story. This is what happened to me, this is, you know, this is so common. And I think there's also a connection with the legal system, you know, the sharing, you know, people being jailed versus getting actual help, you know, the system with rehabs and all of that. So I think by talking about it, I mean, I think this is the hope. And I know that this is what she recovers, saying, When you're ready, recover out loud, so that more money is put into research so that more conversations are happening so that more people can be helped. And it's, it's really across the board with all mental health. For more resources, visit: www.soberlifeschool.com

Hello Loves, Thank you for downloading the podcast, my name is Arlina, and I’ll be your host.  Today, my guest is Micha Z - Podcast host of “Bitch Slap - The Accelerated Path to Peace” and long-timer in recovery.  But before we jump into the episode, I just wanted to share some upcoming content plans I have for you. So here’s the deal: My mission in life, my life’s purpose, whatever you want to call it, is to help lead people out of suffering. I do it because 1) suffering is so unnecessary, and 2) it can be done. And 3) I’m selfish. When I am useful to someone who is ready to receive solution, it fills my heart with peace and joy. I’m not even kidding, it makes me feel like I’m living my purpose. Of course I have boundaries and balance out my energy with my own self-care, but this work is in alignment with purpose and afterall, we don’t ever have to do this life alone. I have a ton of recovery resources to share with you that I’ve found over the 27 years I’ve been sober, so what I’m going to do is publish some mini solo episodes. They will be solution oriented, and outcome specific. The idea is that all the information you need to achieve any goal in life is out on the interwebs for FREE, but the trick is applying the information. The trick is to identify the blocks that keep you from doing the things you know to do that will make your life better. The overarching theme of the content is “Get sober, stay sober, go deeper” I’ll be publishing on YouTube, Instagram and on the One Day at a Time Facebook page, the newsletter (which by the way, I’m terrible at but I’m getting help) and of course the podcast.  The other thing I want you to know is that I’m listening to you! I want to hear about your struggles and challenges so that I can focus on topics YOU care about. So if you want to reach out, all my contact info is at soberlifeschool.com or the podcast website at odaatchat.com And there ya have it! please enjoy this conversation with Mischa!

Hello Loves, Thank you for downloading the podcast, my name is Arlina, and I’ll be your host.  Today, my guest is Courtney Leonard, the talent behind the recovery blog “Sober in Santa Cruz”. She joins me today to share her story of how she got sober, some book recommendations, and her self-care practice that helps maintain her sobriety. Speaking of practices that will help you maintain your sobriety, I’m offering a live self-care practice at 8 am MST Monday-Friday. This will be part of a growing membership site where there will also be expert speakers, a facebook community, and a book club!  You can try it free by visiting Brainwashersclub.com. So there ya have it, please enjoy this conversation, with Courtney!  

Hello Loves, Thank you for downloading the podcast, my name is Arlina, and I’ll be your host.  Today, my guest is Brianne Davis. She is an Actor, author of “The Secret Life of a Hollywood Sex and Love Addict”, and all around beautiful soul. I’ve been talking to people in recovery for decades now, and I can tell right away when someone has done deep work. Brianne is definitely one of those people and I can’t wait for you to get to know her! Before we dive in, this episode is brought to you by Sober Life School. This is what I would consider to be a resource hub for people trying to get sober or who want to dive deeper and get the most out of life. If you’d like to find out what additional resources there are to help you get to the next level, just set up a free strategy call by visiting soberifeschool.com. To hear more episodes like this one, along with recommendations for books, meditations, and other recovery resources I discover on the interwebs, just visit odaatchat.com and subscribe to the weekly newsletter. So there ya have it, please enjoy this conversation, with Brianne!  

Hello Loves,   Thank you for downloading the podcast, my name is Arlina, and I’ll be your host.    Today, my guest is Dennis Berry, Author of “the funky brain” and the podcast with the same name. He is a Life Mastery Coach and has been working with people worldwide for over 15 years and he has been sober since April 8, 2003.   We talk a lot about different solutions and ideas that will hopefully help you on your recovery journey. I would love love love to hear what you found helpful, so shoot me an email at arlina@odaatchat.com or leave a comment on the one day at a time facebook page! (links to both on the website).     This episode is brought to you by Sober Life School. In case you didn’t know, I offer private coaching to focus on recovery, relationships and self-esteem. If you’d like to find out more about how I can help, you can set up a free strategy call by visiting: http://www.soberlifeschool.com   So there ya have it, please enjoy this wide ranging conversation, with Dennis!   Transcript:   Arlina Allen  0:09   Okay, well, Dennis, welcome back to the podcast.   Unknown Speaker  0:12   Thank you Arlina. My, my big young sister.   Arlina Allen  0:18   Sister. Yes, I mean, I'm tiny in stature. I'm only like 5'3", but yes, a big and personality.   Unknown Speaker  0:24   You are, I think we both have that   Arlina Allen  0:26   you are too. Yeah, definitely cut from the same cloth. I am excited to have you back because we're going to focus this time on lots of solutions. You are a recovery coach, Life Mastery school, per your logo up there in the corner. For those of you who are not watching this on YouTube, Dennis has a logo. So we're going to talk about we're gonna I'm gonna ask you the lightning round. And then we're going to give a recap on your story, because you were on before. And I will leave a link from your previous interview. But I enjoy talking to you so much. I'm so glad that you're you're back. But we're going to talk about some solutions in regards to maybe some of the things that might be holding you back if you haven't yet gotten sober. How is that?   Unknown Speaker  1:22   I love that. That's great.   Arlina Allen  1:24   Yeah, it'll be fun. I don't know fun. But yeah, let's do some fun because most of these podcasts are so heavy. You and I were kind of giggling before that. We need to infuse some fun into this too, right?   Unknown Speaker  1:36   I love fun. I'm I'm outgoing, fun person.   Arlina Allen  1:39   You are fun.   Unknown Speaker  1:40   I am like we are not a lot. Why me up? Let me go. I'll take it.   Arlina Allen  1:47   Well, that's what we'll do. And I am gonna ask you what you do for fun, but for as far as a lightning round questions go. When you first got sober. What was maybe like one of the most impactful books that you read?   Unknown Speaker  2:01   Hmm. Wow. That's a that's a loaded question. whitesville many were like the world was just opening up. I was just starting to understand life. So everything I read was like, wow, wow. Oh, my God, don't wait. So it was all like, really exciting and interesting. But, you know, I think like, the big book was exciting, because I was like, all the lights and stuff were going off. But, you know, the 12 and 12, the 12 steps. It really made things make a lot more sense. And so it was really informative to me. And outside of that of the, you know, a approved literature I really liked read and there was a book it was there is about it's called as a man thinketh   Arlina Allen  2:42   Oh, that's a good one. Victor. Is that Viktor Frankl?   Unknown Speaker  2:45   No, it's James Allen. I think James Allen. That's right. It was written in like 1902, like over 100 years ago, and almost 120 years ago. And it's a you know, a lot of that came out of that came like science of mine law of attraction, the secret and positive thinking and stuff like that. And it's like, what you think about you attract into your life. And that's really where a lot of that came from? And then you know what? That came from the Bible too. So I mean, all this stuff is millennials old. We didn't invent any of this shit. So yeah, no,   Arlina Allen  3:15   I mean, those ideas, not only the Bible, but it's in like all the ancient traditions. Yeah, right. Yeah, he's it. None of these ideas are new. But every generation sort of has like this free discovery. So yeah, as a man thinketh is an amazing book. And the bid book is sort of the nickname for the book called Alcoholics Anonymous for those who are new. And the 12 and 12. Did you know that the 12 and 12 was written after? was it? It was bill right, wrote that comment? Well, yeah,   Unknown Speaker  3:46   I'm sure a little ones like 1213 years later.   Arlina Allen  3:50   Wow. Yeah, he did it after a little silicided experiment.   Unknown Speaker  3:54   Yes. Yeah. And a few relapses, like he didn't hear Yeah, like everybody's like, Bill. Oh, he busted had like, 50 years of sobriety, I think, yeah, I only had like, I think teens.   Arlina Allen  4:06   I don't know, that will be a good thing to look up. Like, how long did he have money passed away? Yeah, our founding fathers wrote some interesting stuff. So those are really good books. Thank you for those. Do you have sort of a go to mantra or quote that you live by?   Unknown Speaker  4:26   Now you're throwing these at me? I wasn't prepared.   Arlina Allen  4:28   I just told you them.   Unknown Speaker  4:31   Three minutes ago, and then we talked about other stuff.   Arlina Allen  4:35   Okay, I'll do I'll help you. I'll help you out with Well, no.   Unknown Speaker  4:39   Oh, yeah. Well, you know, and I, yes, I there's one that I live by, and not live by, but it helps propel me. And that is, and it's an ancient, not ancient. It's a old philosopher, but he said all of man's problems and women come from our inability to sit quietly in a room. alone. And that's one of my favorites. because it reminds me that we're always out like doing something we have to always be going and doing and making money and buying things and talking to people. And we can't sit still. And stillness and mindfulness have really become, you know, an integral to my, which I think is one of the next questions coming up. integral to like my daily living, you know, sitting in stillness. You know, when I get overwhelmed and stressed out and full of fear, in my old solution was to go do something or drink something or smoke something or go scroll or make a strong sense phone calls for no reason. Hey, what are you doing? I don't know. What are you doing? Oh, I'm sitting in traffic. Oh, what? Like, those are just avoiding what's going on in your life? So sometimes the answer is just to sit still. So I love   Unknown Speaker  5:49   that quote, hard.   Unknown Speaker  5:51   It is hard. Yeah. Yeah. Cuz it goes against our nature.   Arlina Allen  5:54   Oh, for sure. No, I mean, I grew up. I'm an achievement junkie. Like I'm an you know, like home and my my inner default is that Home Depot. More doing?   Unknown Speaker  6:08   Yeah, go buy something and build something and do something.   Arlina Allen  6:13   And listen, man, truth be told, there's nothing wrong with that. But my knee jerk is to distract. And in my mind, the purpose of obsession is distraction. Right. It's like, but what are we distracting from? And for me, that's why sitting is so hard. But yes, you're right. What a great reminder. You know, that's a great saying, I don't know if that's a quote Exactly. But I love that idea. That that reminder of we need to, you know, be still and know that Oh, God.   Unknown Speaker  6:41   Yeah, there are great quotes that I can't because I'm on the spot. I can usually spit out all kinds of quotes, but because I'm on the spot, I'm like, No, but I want that deer   Arlina Allen  6:51   in the headlight. I love that. Yeah. Um, no worries. If you think of something brilliant that you want to share, you just feel free to interrupt me and we'll include that. Okay. Okay. Do you have a regular recovery routine or self care practice?   Unknown Speaker  7:07   Absolutely. Yeah. And you know, I am, its body, mind. And spirit is like my, and that could be like the quote, you know, body, mind and spirit, I have to always be working on those three, it's really hard to have all three in perfect alignment all the time. But I work on that all the time. And when I wake up in the morning, I, you know, we have a choice of how we want our day to go. So I can wake up and look at the news and watch politics and get stressed out and worried that that's the way my day goes. But the way I wake up is I wake up and I read something productive. That's going to set my mind in the right direction. And I meditate, and I drink lots of water. And I exercise. And then I you know, I look at my calendar afterwards, with clear direction. And that's the way my day goes. So if I wake up with a clear mind moving in the right direction, then my day goes in the right direction. So yeah, I stick to that. That's pretty much the way I roll and I have my whole life is like a life of service. That's why I do what I do.   Arlina Allen  8:08   Yeah. And stop messing around with that on your desk.   Unknown Speaker  8:12   I don't know what you're doing. Oh.   Unknown Speaker  8:14   Did I make   Arlina Allen  8:16   a podcast or you want to know better?   Unknown Speaker  8:17   I know. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.   Unknown Speaker  8:20   Just dizzy. You know, I   Unknown Speaker  8:22   know. It's my nail clippers because I have a hangnail.   Arlina Allen  8:25   Oh, dear. Well, I'm so sorry to hear about that. Yeah. Okay, so read something positive meditate water, exercise calendar. And you do like, I know you're in good shape. You exercise a lot. And can you share with me your meditation practice? Because I think a lot of people are really confused about what meditation is, especially early in recovery. What I hear from people is that I can't meditate. But maybe you can just kind of break break down what meditation really is.   Unknown Speaker  8:57   Absolutely. So there's a You're right, there's a common misconception that you have to be like in a sit in in robes sitting in the Himalayas, in a cave, somewhere, have zero box, yes, to meditate. And that's not true at all. You can meditate on the toilet, you can meditate at a red light. You know, the idea is stillness and mindfulness. When I'm still and mindful. The answers can come in, you know, there's room, there's space in my head for the answers to come in. Like if I'm listening to loud music, or jumping into, you know, Facebook, or whatever it is what I'm doing, you know, I'm probably thinking about my problems and the music that's on. But if I could sit in silence, you know, I'm going to think about my problems. But there's space for the solutions and the answers to come in. So when I meditate, it's almost always in silence. Nowadays, I used to do a lot of guided meditation and with my clients, I'm like, you know what, if you really can't sell for more than five minutes, let's pull up let's do like a progressive muscle relaxation or a body scan or other something else like humans. by the waves crashing on the beach or raindrops or birds chirping. Just make a start somewhere. And then eventually I want to move into silence where that's where I calm down. And, you know if i 20 for me, 20 is the magic number,   Unknown Speaker  10:15   right? In my notes.   Unknown Speaker  10:16   Yeah, if I meditate for five or 10 minutes, it definitely slows things down, and I feel okay. But if I can hit 2025, for some reason, when I open my eyes afterwards, 20 plus minute meditation, all my senses are heightened, I could see better hear better, I could feel better, my touches better everything. So really, for me, it's stillness. And, you know, there's a bunch of different techniques that we could talk about, probably another time, but, you know, really focusing on your breathing and focusing on being present.   Arlina Allen  10:49   Focus on breathing and being present. Yeah, I hear a lot of times when people say I can't meditate, what they're saying is that I can't clear my mind a thought, is usually what ends up coming out. And so my, my response to that is usually, that is not the goal. The goal isn't to clear my head to not have any thoughts. I mean, your brains job is to think so for me, like what you said about just focusing on your breath. And then once you catch your mind thinking, you just notice it, and then gently, gently bring it back to the present moment. Because, you know, even now, sometimes I go back, I'm not I'm thinking again, you know, but it's like, No, no, this there doesn't have to be any hostility about notice. Notice what I'm thinking, it's just like, oh, bring it back to the breath. And if I my mind strays, 1000 times, I just bring it back. 1000 times, that's all.   Unknown Speaker  11:50   Yes. I mean, can I share? Here's a great quote, actually, if you want to use this as the quote, okay. And that is the idea of meditation. It's not to control your mind. It's to not let your mind control you. Oh, that's a good one.   Arlina Allen  12:07   Yeah, like your mind. And that is the thing, right? Like, Holy moly, the whole thing about addiction is that your mind is in control?   Unknown Speaker  12:17   Yes, we have on average, 60 to 80,000 thoughts every day. If those are all awesome, useful, productive thoughts? How great would that be, but most of them are, like useless or harmful thinking. So if we cannot let those take over our lives and drive our our daily activities, then we have a better chance of hitting our goals of being successful, healthy, happy, and overcoming our addictions? Absolutely. Yeah, there   Arlina Allen  12:43   is a National Science Foundation, said 60, that we have 60 to 80 thought 1000 thoughts per day, 85% of those thoughts are negative. And 95% of those thoughts are the same as the day before. Isn't that interesting? So we are actually and then we make decisions and take actions based on those thoughts. And then we are basically in a loop. So we're literally living in the residual of all of yesterday's decisions and thoughts and actions, right? So it's grown on day. So if you, if you find yourself asking, How did I get here? Again? It's all based on thoughts. So I love the process that you offer for meditation, because that's where the change can happen.   Unknown Speaker  13:32   Yeah, and there needs to be changed. Like, you know, like, one of the bumper sticker things we hear all the time is like, nothing changes, if nothing changes. So if I'm stuck in that loop every day, and I'm wondering, why am I hitting my financial goals, and my relationship continues to suck and why I can't get sober. 30 pounds, I'm can't get sober. Because I'm stuck in that loop. So great point. Wow, wow, we're really solving a lot of the world's stuff. And it's only been five   Arlina Allen  14:00   years or so. Right? Gosh, and we haven't even gotten to be this is one of my favorite questions. What would you tell younger dentists? What would you what's the one thing you wish you knew when you first got sober?   Unknown Speaker  14:14   I would have to say,   Unknown Speaker  14:17   ask for help.   Unknown Speaker  14:20   You know, we're taught that asking for help is a sign of weakness, but it's not. It's actually a sign of strength, you know, reaching out saying and, you know, with humility being like, you know, I don't understand this. I can't figure this out on my own, otherwise, I would have by now, right? And so reaching out to somebody who is on the other side of the addiction, or just is doing better in life, or whatever you define is better or just somebody that has something you want is how we used to say in tough stuff, and it's like, reach out and be like, hey, how did you get there? You know, I can't figure this out. Can you maybe you can guide me through this. Because I was by myself, I'm stuck with my 80,000 thoughts from yesterday that are negative, and I can't figure it out. So ask for help. That's my big one.   Arlina Allen  15:10   I love that. I love what you said about if I could have done it. If I could have done it already, I would have. Yeah. Yeah, ask for help. It is a sign of strength. Our society, you know, sees that as weakness, but it takes a lot of courage to be able ask for help. And the thing is, there's so many people who are willing to give it. Everybody loves giving free advice. Are you kidding me?   Unknown Speaker  15:35   They just don't follow their own advice. They just give it up.   Arlina Allen  15:38   Yeah, give it up smooth. Yeah, but   Unknown Speaker  15:40   you know what, like, one of the things I tell my clients all the time, too, is like, yes, we want to ask for help. But we also want to learn, we want to become independent, too. And we want to learn things on our own too. So I can't just sit here, if we're in a session and give you all the answers, I want you to figure some stuff out, too. So you know, if you're stuck, I can't figure this out. definitely ask for help, and then start googling stuff. Google has the answers to pretty much anything in the world. So I can't figure this out. Like what store? Should I go by this? How can I meditate? Okay, just Google it.   Arlina Allen  16:15   here's, here's the problem. A lack of information is not the issue. It's applying it. And I think that's why it's so important to have somebody like you in life, right for the fellows, you know, I still sort of kind of, I know, I know, you help a lot, a lot of the men, you know, apply the information. It's about applying. So you're all about the action and applying the information. The information is all out there. But we don't do it for a reason. Right? And we'll talk about that later. I do want to ask you about your recovery journey. But we're going to talk in this episode about how to uncover and identify some limiting beliefs. And they prevent us from applying that information. So I guess that's like a teaser? I don't know. I don't usually do that. But I need to know what you do for fun these days. Because we are not a glum lot. We like having fun. What do you do for fun these days?   Unknown Speaker  17:14   Well, I'm in the process of moving to the beach, and the beach is my happy place. So right now is a kind of a strange time in my life. But it's good because I can handle it because I'm sober. And I and I actively live a life of sobriety and self improvement so I can handle it. And I'm doing all this while working and I'm selling everything I own. I'm moving to a minimalist lifestyle. It's quite interesting to find all the stuff that I used to have that I I can't say I've never been a very materialistic person. But the stuff that I had that I thought made me happy. And you know, some of it definitely imparts some joy or whatever I don't like. The example I'm going to give right now is like, last week, this woman came and picked up my whole living room set. And I had a cool little living room. It was like a beautiful, yeah, I remember. Yeah. And she took it away. And I was like, and it was like, empty, and there was like, echoes again. And I was like, Oh, my God, and I set up my folding chairs in my living room. And I'm like, I love this. It was free. It was empty. There's elbow room. And there's a space to walk through the whole living room. And I was like, I love it. And my whole house is emptying out. So I love that. And so at the end in the next like, four to six weeks, all I'm gonna have left is my four suitcases that I'm bringing to Mexico. So for fun right now. I mean, I always for me, fun is the beach. But I exercise a lot. And I swim a lot I walk a lot jog, I would say running except them. I call it middle age running, which is really like a fast walk or jog sometimes. And I like lifting weights and I you know, that gives me energy. And I like eating well and drinking lots of water. These things that used to be such a chore that people are like, you should do this and you'll feel better and stuff. They've become the way that I live now. So I enjoy that.   Arlina Allen  19:13   I hate that word should because yeah, without knowing it, it actually creates resistance.   Unknown Speaker  19:19   Mm hmm.   Arlina Allen  19:20   Man eliminate that shit out of your life. Don't ever say Should I here's, here's what I found is that when you give someone permission to keep doing the bad behavior, they make the choice themselves to do something better.   Unknown Speaker  19:34   Yeah, we're resilient by nature. Yeah, yeah. If you tell me I usually do. Like when I was drunk, you know, years ago, I would sit on the barstool. And I would say you should do this and you should do that. And they would all look at me like, well, your life kind of sucks. So if I do what you're telling me I should do I'm gonna end up like you. I don't do that anymore.   Arlina Allen  19:54   Yeah. As I say, not as I do. That's like the worst parenting. Approach ever Sure, we learn by example. Okay, so that I love that minimal lifestyle moving to Mexico to live by the beach. I mean that you're talking about, like spending time in nature and that is so like rejuvenating. Yeah, just getting return to nature. It's, um, okay, so how about you tell me I'm so curious. Always. And I don't know that I read, I hear a lot of stories about people's sort of like turning points. It's like, okay, it's like we develop these addictions. I know, you had a pretty crazy story. You don't have to rehash the whole thing. But, you know, maybe a little bit about what it was like. But I'm really so curious about what was the pivotal moment for you when you decided to quit drinking, because it's the decision that really fascinates me.   Unknown Speaker  20:55   Yeah, great point. That was the 32nd version. I was a crazy maniac, ski racer party ski bum chef guy for 10 years. And that was up in northeast Vermont. And then I moved out here to Colorado 21 years, 22 years ago now. And, and I kind of kept it going, but I stopped skiing. So then I was living in suburbia, living that lazy drunken lifestyle. And then I started eating fast food and stuff, and I stopped skiing. So I didn't have the activity. So I put on a bunch of weight. And I was just like, the fat drunken dude, who you see now is not the man that I once was. And   Arlina Allen  21:34   you're Mr. Fit now. Yeah.   Unknown Speaker  21:36   And that also, that all came to a head. And in 2003, I lost the job I was proud of, and I, my I spent all the money use all the resources in my life. We're all spent, I couldn't turn to family or anybody anymore for money or help or anything. And that was my pivotal moment. And I ended up in a 30 day rehab center, and I just kind of latched on it's funny, I was just doing a podcast with somebody else a couple hours ago. And they asked a similar question. But you know, I got there, and they're, you know, in rehab, you can go and there's a lot of people that are like bouncing in and out of rehabs and that are there for the wife or the husband or the the law or their job or whatever. But I was there because I needed to change. Like I, I remember there was a group, there was a small group, like the rehab I was in it was like 50 people. So we had like these big meetings with with everybody. And then they had a small group where there was like six or seven of us. And people were going around the room that were there longer than me. And it was only like my first or second day. And it came out they were and they were talking about different things in their lives. And they came to me and I just started crying. And I said, I can't stop drinking. Like people were talking about resentment and fear, and insecurities and heartache and financial problems, like all this stuff. And I was like, I didn't know, those were the reasons I couldn't stop drinking that I needed to work on life. But I just started crying. I can't stop drinking. And I don't know what to do. And this is sad to say. So if you're listening and you can't stop drinking, I understand. And I know Arlina does, too. And that's the hardest. The hardest thing you know, we look at people on the outside. This is why I think it's important to work with people who know what it's like to be drunk and not be able to stop. It's like, I can look at you, you could tell me your story. And there's nothing that we haven't heard before, or done before. And you could tell me that story. And to you it's like the biggest thing in the world. And to me, I'm like, Oh, yeah, I've heard that before. We're gonna get through it. It's okay. You know, because I've done that. And so I latched on to people that that were doing the work that we call now. And they were they were praying and meditating, talking to people writing things down reading exercise, they do it all the things you asked me what do I do? Not much has changed in the last 18 years. You know, I   Arlina Allen  24:07   everything   Unknown Speaker  24:08   except everything. And I just do it at a deeper level. Now, you know, they say, you know, like, when people talk about diets, and they're like, well, I tried that diet, it didn't work. But it did work. You go on the diet, you do what it says you stop eating crap, and then you exercise more, you lose 20 pounds. So you start eating cheesecake again, and you get fat again, and you're like, well, what happened? I tried that diet. It didn't work, but it did you stop doing the things that it told you to do. So it's the same as sobriety. It's like you come in, life's falling apart. We're like here, why don't you try this and you're like, Okay, I'm hurting, I'm gonna do that. And then a month later, or a week later, or whatever, you stop doing that stuff because you stopped drinking, but we haven't changed anything else. So a week later or a month later, we stopped drinking and we stopped doing the things that helped us stop drinking. And then we end up drinking because we don't know how to handle life. That's the real problem like thinking, we haven't changed our thinking. We haven't worked on the real reasons why we drink. So once we start doing that, then we can handle life as it comes at us. Because it continues to come at you. It's what's our reaction to it, when that happens?   Arlina Allen  25:21   Absolutely. And we have evidence that other people are experiencing those same circumstances, and they don't drink. So what's the difference? Right, and, and it feels to me like it's the practice that you described that self care practice that that helps us cope and do the emotion management stuff.   Unknown Speaker  25:44   But I think you said a big word there,   Unknown Speaker  25:46   the emotion management, I love that emotional sobriety that we talked about. That's really the goal. You know, this isn't a not drinking contests, it's about growing up and looking at the world in the eye, and living a life of integrity and honesty, and helping people.   Arlina Allen  26:01   Thank you for saying that. It's not a not whatever you said, um, but not not not drinking content. funny, because we do give accolades to people who don't drink for long periods of time. But it's been my experience that those people can be as batshit crazy or sick as people who are continuing to drink. So this is not a not drinking contest. It's about personal evolution, because we are always evolving. So we're either evolving or devolving   Unknown Speaker  26:37   sounds   Arlina Allen  26:38   like a muscle, it's like you, you know, you you stay in shape, because you continue to exercise, right? And so you're, in my mind, like sobriety is like that, too. Like, my brain has this default. And I have to exercise it to get out of that default. And when I stop exercising, I go back to default. Absolute.   Unknown Speaker  26:57   Yeah, I was taught we always want to be pushing uphill, right. And if we're not pushing uphill, we're sliding downhill. There's no planing out. There's no like hanging out, because, but the differences and people think that pushing uphill means struggling, it doesn't have to mean struggle. It just means trying to be better than I was yesterday.   Unknown Speaker  27:16   Yeah.   Unknown Speaker  27:17   That's already yesterday.   Unknown Speaker  27:18   So what did I do yesterday? That worked? Let's do more of that. And let's try to keep going. What did I do that didn't work? Let's stop doing that. Let's try to become better. That's all.   Arlina Allen  27:29   Yeah. And I think that's so important. You know, this is why it's so important to have like a mentor, like a sponsor, or a coach or something to help you sort of stay in balance, because I mean, recovery seems to be full of paradoxes, right? It's like, we have to do all this work. But then we have to, you know, stay in peace, and we have another day, then we have to do growing pains. And it's the whole thing. So it's nice to have somebody but it is just what like my whole thing is one day at a time. Right, which we just have to do today. You know, and it's nice to have friends and an environment, you know, set up to support that. So,   Unknown Speaker  28:06   yes, well, I know why you need a coat. I know why you need a coat. Because we all do.   Unknown Speaker  28:12   I know I have one. Isn't that great? Like coach, I   Arlina Allen  28:15   have a sponsor, I have their bus.   Unknown Speaker  28:18   Yes. So I was taught and I'm sure if we talked about this before, but it's like I was taught have an expert in every area of your life. So I'm not a doctor, if I get sick, I need to go to the doctor. If I have to go to court, I need a lawyer. If I hate doing taxes, I hate it hate it. So I needed an accountant every year to help me do that. And apparently I can't get sober on my own. And apparently I have a hard time achieving all my goals on my own. So let's get back to what we said 10 minutes ago. Ask for help somebody who's not emotionally attached to my shirt who can see it from out here instead of me going oh my god, this is how my life's go and say well what if we just look at it from here instead? Oh, wow, I didn't think of that. Your first thought because you're emotionally attached right now to your crap and you you can't see through it   Arlina Allen  29:09   can't see that. Yeah, I always say that like emotion colors my perspective I can't see clearly and, and I do I do need somebody who's objective. Are you gonna write that down?   Unknown Speaker  29:20   Yes. Your   Arlina Allen  29:23   emotion colors my perspective? Yeah, I can't see clearly. I mean, rose colored glasses, right? That's beautiful, positive thing, but I don't know if that's positive all the time.   Unknown Speaker  29:36   I'm gonna have to write Arlina Allen underneath.   Arlina Allen  29:39   I'm full of it.   Unknown Speaker  29:40   give you all the credit your fault for something, follow them all kinds of things. Yeah,   Arlina Allen  29:46   I'm an obsessive learner. Sorry, try to fill fill this look good things. But no, I love that idea of having an expert in every area of your life, which includes like sobriety, you know, goal achievement. All that stuff, I love it. But this is actually a good segue into, you know, maybe let's just start at the beginning. Like if you're struggling to quit drinking, you know, maybe we can start to talk a little bit about what are some of the beliefs that may be the negative limiting beliefs that we have about quitting drinking, a lot of people are afraid to quit drinking, pick a date or that they're going to start stopping. My son says A is for quitters. I think that's hilarious. But some people are really afraid. It's, it's really there's a lot of socializing that happens with alcohol present, there's, you know, you know, some people that I talked to you, they're like, everybody I know, drinks. And I'm like, guess what? Nobody that I know, drinks? Hardly anybody?   Unknown Speaker  30:55   It's not. So I did. Well, maybe you did   Arlina Allen  31:01   seem crazy. But it's like, No, we choose people. We choose people to be in our life. You know, there's that saying that if you ordered a shit sandwich, chances are you ordered it. Like we choose the shitty people. And it's not funny. It's not a I didn't say it. But um, so socializing is probably a big area. And then I thought maybe we would also sort of dive into a little bit of what of your partner's still drinking and you want to quit? Those are a couple of tricky ones. So how, what do you what do you see as some of the limiting beliefs around, you know, not drinking as a, as it relates to socializing.   Unknown Speaker  31:44   This is great limiting beliefs, beliefs, and behaviors, those harmful beliefs and behaviors that we've had, in most cases for decades. You know,   Unknown Speaker  31:53   what's up,   Arlina Allen  31:54   unexamined beliefs,   Unknown Speaker  31:56   unexamined? And, you know, maybe we saw dad yelling at mom, or hitting mom, or maybe we saw something that our friends that years, maybe were five years old, and we're like, I don't know how to handle that. But I find a way through it. And then I carry that behavior, whether it's healthy or not into my whole life, right? That behavior and those beliefs into my whole life, I'm not good enough, I'm not worth it. Although I'm funny enough, smart enough, good looking enough. And we carry those all the way through. And then in my case, like, I had those when I was five years old, then I start drinking when I'm 15. And that took away some of that pain, and then I was, then I was good enough, and I could talk and then I could dance better, and all that stuff. But I never really learned how to cope with those in a healthy way. So a lot of people fail in sobriety because they fail to work through these limiting beliefs. So this is a great, great topic. Because when I start with new clients, the first thing we do is we talk about our beliefs about ourselves, and like about our body, about our relationships, or family and sexual romantic relationships, our career, our finances, and our spiritual life, like those pretty much cover life, those areas right there. And let's find all of the limiting beliefs in all those areas, write them down, and then let's start chipping away at those. Because without, like, if we're just thinking about it with our other 80,000 harmful thoughts every day, that we're never going to find a solution. So we would need to like work through those. And when we write them down, I take my thoughts, which are running all over the place, my funky brain, and now I put them on paper. And now I have something to work on something tangible, that I can take action on and say, Wow, I I believe this. Well, that's a bunch of bullshit. Well, so I can get rid of that one quick. But this one, this goes deep. How can I work on, like debunking that harmful belief? Well, is it really true how let's look at areas in our life where that's actually bullshit. So I actually have a technical term, it's called bullshit stories we tell ourselves, it's, it's a clinical term, bullshit stories. So we look at those things and be like, I'm not good enough well, or are successful, or whatever it is, say, well, let's see, you've you've had this job, you're making six figures, you're fairly healthy, you have a relationship with your wife or your husband. So that we just proved that wrong. So there's ways to go about doing this and look at the things that we believe and then debunk those bullshit stories that we're telling ourselves,   Arlina Allen  34:36   get somebody to, is there a process for that? Like, like, you know, I, you know, I do a class and the way we sort of do it is what is it that you want, and why don't you have it and the Why don't you have it as the BS story that you're telling yourself? Do you have a process for that? Or is it more sort of like you talk it through how do you get how do you how people identify their story.   Unknown Speaker  35:04   Well, I mean, like, kinda like I just said, Well, these areas like that's a specific exercise, how I start with a lot of the reason, remember the drinking and the drugs and the food and the porn and the shopping and the Netflix, the scrolling, like all that talking   Arlina Allen  35:21   about Netflix, that's not a problem.   Unknown Speaker  35:26   I need my Netflix   Unknown Speaker  35:28   for me. Right.   Unknown Speaker  35:30   But those things like those aren't the problem. That's what I'm using to cope with the real problem, which is your actions? Yes. Those are distractions. Even the drinking now the drinking is twofold problem because, you know, that gets into those physical things. And, you know,   Arlina Allen  35:47   that's a physical addiction as opposed to a process addiction.   Unknown Speaker  35:50   Well, I mean, that it is an addiction, and but it is still just a distraction. At the end of the day. Yes, you know, and then we have to watch for cross addictions, like I quit drinking, but I'm going to smoke weed, or I'll quit smoking weed, but I'm going to eat a pizza every day. And I'm going to quit eating pizza belly to pound a chocolate every day, but but I'm going to get keeps smoke cigarettes are   Arlina Allen  36:13   all distraction,   Unknown Speaker  36:14   all distractions from feeling and from dealing with our limiting beliefs.   Arlina Allen  36:18   Whether Okay,   Unknown Speaker  36:19   yeah, so when we identify those, okay, write them down. Now we can work write them say, Alright, well, this has been going on my life for 30 years. So it's probably going to take a little bit of time. But let's, let's create some new healthy habits, some new ways of doing things that are going to help me become successful. And then we want to define some goals. So okay, let's say that, let's say, Alright, here's how I believe about my body. And this is how my health is. And but I want it to be like this. Now we have a goal. And this is how my finances are. But this is how I want my finances to be. Now we have a goal. So when we, we say, these are my beliefs about myself and all those areas. And then there's where I want to go, and then let's work on one at a time. Because not all of them. Because this is another reason people get overwhelmed. And then they do things like drink, because New Year's resolutions. Well, every new year, I'm going to write a book, lose 20 pounds, fix my relationship, make a million dollars and do all this stuff. And two weeks later, you're like, Oh, my God, I can't handle this. So I start drinking again and eat chocolate and and the next New Year's, it's the same five new year's resolution   Unknown Speaker  37:31   vicious.   Unknown Speaker  37:32   So what we need to do is focus on one goal, the one that's going to change your life the most probably the one that you've been putting off for 10 years, right. And then let's create specific steps to get that goal done at a high level. And then you don't need to drink. Like you start feeling building confidence. And you start feeling good about yourself. And you walk out into the row with your chin up and look in the world in the eye. And that's when we want to do and there's no space then for drinking or getting stoned or whatever your harmful behavior is.   Arlina Allen  38:01   Right now. That's beautiful. I love that. Um, talk to me a little bit, how would you help somebody who has problems? quitting drinking? Because their partner still drinks? How do you address that? That's a tough one. Right? Well, yeah, I   Unknown Speaker  38:19   mean, that that has layers. So it depends. Is the other person an alcoholic? Are they just drinking socially and don't want to quit? Do you have the hard talk with them? Maybe they will stop with you, you know. So? I mean, there's a lot of different ways to approach it, is it? Is it causing you to have cravings and causing you to relapse, then, then maybe we need to talk about boundaries. Maybe we say if you can't stop drinking, then I'm gonna have to leave for a little while or indefinite or whatever. Because you have to take care of you remember, self love, self care, self respect, and having people around that are going to continue to cause me to cause damage to my own health and well being. That's not self love. That's not self care and self respect. So, you know, these are the hard things to do. And this is why it's important to have somebody in your life because it's not easy to say to your husband or wife. If you can't stop drinking, I am going to leave. So you have to leave, or you have to leave Yeah, something like that. Because that those are the hard talks, but it's a paradise. The most successful relationships in the world are two independent people, not codependent people who have the hard talks and do the hard things. And they get through those things.   Arlina Allen  39:38   Yeah, no, that's really good. Is it there it is. It is multifaceted and every it seems like every situation is different. And that is why it's important to have like an objective third party to help process through all these there's so many questions, right but you I feel like hit the nail on the head by saying that You know, the self care and the self love has to come first. And what you're really talking about is priorities. Like, if you're when you're quitting drinking, sobriety has to be your number one priority before your kids before your husband before your job, which, you know, strikes at the heart of fear of some people, because their financial security, you know, emotional security, personal security, you know, is tied to relationships and jobs and things like that, but, but if you are really struggling with alcohol, then it is gonna cost you everything that it is that you say is important to you.   Unknown Speaker  40:44   Yeah, you know, that self love, self care and self respect people. There's a another misconception. And that is, if I'm doing those things, I'm being selfish. And there's a difference between being selfish and taking care of yourself. And it's kind of like, you know, this is a, maybe you people have heard this before, but it's like, you know, when the oxygen comes down in the airplane, I need to put it over my face my nose first, because if I'm not breathing, I can't help anybody else. So it's the same thing with everything, I need to take care of me if my health is failing, because I can't stop drinking, that I need to start taking care of my health. And if somebody is in the way of that, then we have to stop the amount of time or reduce the amount of time that I spend with them. Because I need to take care of me.   Unknown Speaker  41:31   Yeah,   Unknown Speaker  41:32   yeah. And that gets lost that well. And that's something we have to build in sobriety is, we have to take some of the shame and the guilt away, which is why we talk about those things. And, and be become humble. And but take care of yourself.   Unknown Speaker  41:47   And yeah, that means   Unknown Speaker  41:49   diet, exercise, meditation, reading, things that are going to be productive. You know, when I was drinking, I didn't do any of those things. There wasn't any space for that. So I need to add healthy habits into my life that are gonna distract me from the distraction of drinking.   Arlina Allen  42:07   You said something that really caught my attention, take away guilt and shame. Because I feel like the guilt and shame is what prevents us from the self love and making ourselves a priority. And we tie so much guilt and shame to alcoholism or addiction. Because we do shitty things when we're drunk or higher. In our loss and our addiction. When we're lost in our addiction, we behaved badly. And we ended so we have evidence that says I'm a shitty person. So maybe that's a negative limiting belief, right? That this guilt and shame is your identity. Right? And it's important to separate Don't you find that it's important to separate that? guilt and shame? How do you help people take that away?   Unknown Speaker  43:00   Well, yeah, all the all of the the regret. or worrying about what I've done in the past, all the guilt and the shame can change one moment of the past. So we really need to learn to let that fee in the past, and now and we need to forgive ourselves. And you know, in the 12 step program, it's the fourth step. It's about like going in and finding your, your, you know, where your resentments where your fears are all those things, and then moving all through the work and you get up to where you go make amends to people and then putting the past in the past. That's the idea of all that. Yeah,   Unknown Speaker  43:42   that's a great process.   Unknown Speaker  43:44   It's an incredible process. Yes. And then I we go even further, it's like continuing the growth, but it's important. And an important amends to make apology to me, whatever you want to call it is to yourself, there needs to we need to forgive ourselves. And one of the one of the processes I do is I have a four step forgiveness process where we work through and the first part is, is getting all the anger out, because you can't be angry, resentful, and love at the same time. Right? So we need anger out. And this comes in the form of letters. So I write letters to my parents, my ex my friends have screwed me over the president, all these people like that we hate and we're mad at. So we write letters, saying, you know, I hate you, I can't believe you did this. Fuck you, you screwed my life up, blah, blah, blah. We got to get all that anger out. And that process could take. I have one woman who I work with she was raped twice. And, you know, going through a forgiveness process. There's a lot of anger in there from 30 years ago. So we we worked on this for months of getting anger out. And then on to the next letter where You know what, I forgive you, I know that you were just doing the best you can. And, you know, I hope that that we're both able to move on. And I wish you well.   Arlina Allen  45:11   The second letter is a letter of compassion.   Unknown Speaker  45:14   Yes. Yeah. A letter of love, forgiveness, compassion. Now, while you're doing that letter, you're like, I forgive you. But fuck you. I still can't believe each other. But that means all the anger is down now. So we need to go back to the beginning and continue to get the anger out.   Arlina Allen  45:30   Are they reading these letters to you?   Unknown Speaker  45:33   Oh, yes. To me.   Unknown Speaker  45:35   I'm sorry for anybody. All   Arlina Allen  45:36   right, no, I get that. Okay. So what you're talking about is validating, in my mind, like people just can't move on until their feelings are acknowledged and validated.   Unknown Speaker  45:51   Mm hmm.   Arlina Allen  45:52   Yeah. And then, yeah, and that's what you're describing is. You hold space for them to you hear God's sometimes people just want to be heard. Right? Like, nobody's listening. like everyone's talking. nobody's listening. So you hold this safe space of listening. And you hear and see and feel with your heart. Yes, that sucked. I agree with you. I hear you. That must have been horrible, right? And there's almost something de escalates. Something, just that validation. In my mind. People cannot move on until they're seen, heard and validated. And then they can move to compassion and forgiveness, like,   Unknown Speaker  46:41   yeah, yeah. And it takes time, remember, a lot of stuff, you know, we're deal a lot of this stuff we deal with, is unresolved emotion, it's unresolved things from the past, whatever it was, and these things can be decades old. And it's gonna take longer than a week or a month to, to undo these, these beliefs, behaviors, habits, ways of living that have been keeping us sick. It's gonna take a while to undo that. And take us but you know, the painful process helps us have sustained growth. Right? Like, that's   Unknown Speaker  47:19   what I said.   Arlina Allen  47:19   Sorry to interrupt you, but if I don't say it now I'm gonna forget. Cuz I'm old. No, it does take time to undo because and this is sort of an interesting point. Have you ever heard that? That saying that time heals all wounds? Such a lie?   Unknown Speaker  47:37   And time to action?   Arlina Allen  47:40   Ah, yeah, time with action heals wounds. I love that. Thank you. Sorry to interrupt. No, no   Unknown Speaker  47:46   calm.   Arlina Allen  47:49   What were you saying? I forgot.   Unknown Speaker  47:54   Sorry.   Arlina Allen  47:56   Okay, okay. So, get the anger out through the letters, it takes time with action.   Unknown Speaker  48:02   Yeah. And then at the end, ultimately, we want to forgive ourselves, forgive ourselves to get to the place where you know, I love I love you. I love you. Arlina I love you, Dennis. I love you, me, I love me. And, you know, we all make mistakes. And ultimately, that's where we want to get. And, you know, it takes a little time to get there. And sometimes it doesn't it sometimes some something silly, you know, like rape is a horrible, like one of the worst things that could ever happen in your life. So that one tastes a little more work. Sometimes it's smaller things. But you know, we just have to be willing to do the work. And once we start doing the work, then change happens. But if we continue to stay in our 80,000, stagnant thoughts from yesterday that are keeping us stuck? Not going to grow out of it? Well,   Arlina Allen  48:48   there's, you know, the shadow side of all this is like we do it because it serves us in some way. Right. Thank you. Does we think it does. Yeah, we think it does. And I feel like that's like subconscious minds job is to sort of keep you in this little comfort zone. Because that's, you know, we develop like the default mode network, this this way of thinking this operating system and then your subconscious mind to conserve energy will try to keep you there. Right? Let it doesn't ultimately serve you because it's like, you have all this pain that you're not dealing with, and that's what's causing you to drink or behave in a destructive way. So I love this forgiveness process. And, and so, gosh, I I could talk to you all day, but I realized I want to be sensitive to your time. Okay, so   Unknown Speaker  49:38   I'm all yours.   Arlina Allen  49:40   Oh, you're so sweet. Okay, so the fruit, okay, so we ultimately forgive ourselves. And so my belief is that we cannot escape the same measuring stick that we judge others by. So if we're going to write that one down, that's right. So the VI The reason To forgive, in my mind, is that Have you ever heard that idea that anger is like our resentments? Like, like, anger damages the vessel that carries it right? It's like acid like that anger just poisons us. Right. But we hold on to this resentment because we're holding these other people to this standard. That may or may not be. Well, I don't know. It's like not serving anybody really. But   Unknown Speaker  50:31   well know that. You know, that resentment holding up the anger. You know what that is? What? That's another distraction.   Unknown Speaker  50:39   Oh, yeah, that's   Unknown Speaker  50:41   exactly what that is. So having, drinking, getting stone, the I won't say Netflix anymore. But scrolling, the eating chick fil a at three in the afternoon, and holding resentments. Those are all distractions, feeling and growing. That's what they are. It's the same thing.   Arlina Allen  51:00   You are healing the world today.   Unknown Speaker  51:04   That's the truth. I mean, this is huge thinking. going deep. And most people aren't even willing to go this deep because it's painful. It's part of   Arlina Allen  51:13   growing pains, though, right. And the thing is, is life is painful anyway, so you're going to experience pain, so me as well be intentional about it and process the pain to resolution rather than continue our distracting behaviors.   Unknown Speaker  51:32   Master role,   Arlina Allen  51:33   and you are? Well, thank you. And you are such a great facilitator for people. How How do people find you and work with you? If if you do indeed have your calendar is full. But if you could squeeze one or two people in how would somebody go about reaching out to you,   Unknown Speaker  51:57   there's always room to help people. So it's Dennis berry.com. And you can schedule a free session on there. And we'll have a chat. And if you like it, we'll try some more. And if not, I understand. And from there, you can buy my book, and you can get to my podcast and the Life Mastery school you were talking about is I'm creating a series of free videos. And the current one that's up there now is addiction recovery. And there's like 15 or 20 videos there. And then   Arlina Allen  52:25   I'm 10 or 20.   Unknown Speaker  52:26   Yeah, so they're all free to watch. And then there's different topics within there. And I did love and relationships. There's about 10 or 15. There. I'm working on mindfulness and meditation, which we were just talking about, and health and wellness. So it's just it's Life Mastery school by Dennis Berry. And you just come in, you can watch all the classes you want for free.   Arlina Allen  52:48   Life Mastery school by Dennis berry.com. No, it's on my website. Everything's on Dennisberry.com   Unknown Speaker  52:56   Yeah, everything's right there, Life Mastery school mastery on Dennisberry.com. website. Hopefully that wasn't confusing. Just go to Dennis Berry, just   Arlina Allen  53:05   just go to Dennis berry calm. I'll leave a link. If you're driving while listening to this. I will leave a link per usual. in the show notes. I will also include and the forgiveness process that was intense. Thank you so much for sharing that.   Unknown Speaker  53:20   Yeah. And if anybody reaches out via this, then I'll just send him a free copy a PDF copy of my book.   Arlina Allen  53:27   Oh, nice. What's the name of your book?   Unknown Speaker  53:29   funky wisdom A Practical Guide to Life.   Arlina Allen  53:31   Love that. So good. Um, okay. Yeah. So I will leave links to the books. I'll have the quotes in there. There was a lot of quotes, actually, you see a great quotes. And I'll leave a link to your website, podcast and Bach. Yay,   Unknown Speaker  53:54   has a lot of stuff. You're the best. I love you.   Unknown Speaker  53:56   I love you.   Arlina Allen  53:57   You're my brother from another mother, for sure. Thank you so much for all the work that you do. I know that you your whole purpose. Like you're living your purpose, as am I now? Yeah. It feels really good to be of service and turn that in service, I would say that service is probably one of the fastest way to improve your self esteem if, if you're struggling with guilt and shame, start getting into service because that will help mitigate that as well.   Unknown Speaker  54:26   So powerful. So, so, so true. You know, I said all the time, but you know, are you worried or stressed out or resentful or angry or whatever your feeling is? Did you help anybody today? Yeah. And it's sometimes it could be a big thing. And sometimes it could be just holding the door open for somebody but just stop doing it with?   Arlina Allen  54:47   Yes. with intention. I love that. Well, Dennis, thank you so much for being so awesome. All the time. Thank   Unknown Speaker  54:55   you.   Arlina Allen  54:58   Good luck with your move to Mexico. I look forward to seeing all the pictures on all your socials. I'll leave links to that. Thank you so much for your time today.   Unknown Speaker  55:09   Thank you. I mean, I appreciate you.   Arlina Allen  55:11   I appreciate you too. We'll talk again soon.

Hello Loves, Thank you for downloading the podcast, my name is Arlina, and I’ll be your host.  Today, my guest is Camille Kinzler, founder of Think Beyond The Drink, and professional coach. She shares her story of drinking and how she stopped with a lot of practical suggestions on how to deal with the underlying feelings that cause people to drink. She’s also hosting a free online series that starts May 10-18th called: Break Your Drinking Habits” with 7 Expert speakers, including me! I’m excited about the panel because it’s a group of women doing amazing work in the field of recovery, who are having a profound impact.  We’re going to be addressing some of the most important recovery topics including, self-love, boundary setting, behavior change, and lots more. Register for free at thinkbeyondthedrink.com To hear more episodes like this one, just visit odaatchat.com and subscribe to the weekly newsletter. So there ya have it, please enjoy this conversation, with Camille!    

    Wordpress site permalink: http://odaatchat.com/index.php/2021/04/14/lovesober/   Bit.ly:  https://bit.ly/3mPxYXS   YouTube Link: https://youtu.be/1trx31ywwSY   Guest Links:      https://amzn.to/3wWOdas   http://www.LoveSober.com    Book recommendation: The Sober Revolution: Calling Time on Wine O'Clock by Lucy Rocca and Sarah Turner   Favorite Quote: I haven’t come this far to only come this far. What I wish I knew: How important connection is.   Title: OC151 Kate Bailey - Love Yourself Sober: A Self Care Guide to Alcohol-Free Living for Busy Mothers    Social Media Post: So. Much. Fun! Kate and I talked about all kinds of things. Being highly sensitive, early intervention, and the science of happiness. Click here to listen: https://bit.ly/3mPxYXS     Show Notes:    Transcribed Episode of Love Yourself Sober - Episode 151 with Kate Bailey & Arlina Allen   Arlina Allen  0:08   I'm super excited to talk to you. I, I know Mandy Mathers. She actually had me on your podcast, as you know. She and I were in the same coaching class. So that was super fun. That's how we met and I'm so excited to get to meet you and talk to you about your book.   Kate Bailey  0:27   Yeah, cuz It's not long been out in the States. I think it was just about a month.   Arlina Allen  0:34   Yeah, that is so exciting. Listen, I have so many questions for you about the book. It's called "Love yourself sober, A self care guide to alcohol free living for busy mothers". And, you know, busy moms. Super cute cover   Unknown Speaker  0:59   who designed the cover?   Unknown Speaker  1:01   You know, I don't know someone in the publishing house. But I love it. It's Yeah, it's great   Unknown Speaker  1:08   Yeah. I'm matching   Unknown Speaker  1:13   If you're not watching this on YouTube. Yes. Mandy is matching her book. Right. So cute. Was that deliberate?   Kate Bailey  1:20   It's Kate. Do you know as we keep doing this, It's like we've become the same person. And if sometimes we're talking to someone both of us on the pod. And someone will say how are you to me? I'll just go on. We're fine.   Unknown Speaker  1:40   Oh no, I'm so sorry! We we need to ship your names like you know, like "Brangelina". Like Manate. Wait no, that doesn't sound right. hahaha.   Unknown Speaker  2:12   Oh my gosh. Okay. Yes. So this is such an important book. Because, you know, it's so funny. Not funny, but peculiar is that people when they are struggling with recovery, they hate themselves, right? And it's like, you can't hate yourself well. It's like trying to run a marathon with a broken leg. And so the reason your book is so brilliant, love yourself sober. It's like, that's how it has to be done. You know? And I don't know about you. Like, when I first got sober, I would go to these rooms. And people would say things like, oh, we're gonna love you until you can love yourself. And I was like, wow, somebody's got to because that ain't me.   Unknown Speaker  2:50   It's so true, isn't it? And it was definitely that piece. It was the sort of the self care the self love. It definitely started almost outside in for me that journey. Yeah. Because I didn't have the internal resources. So when I discovered self care, and so retreats, and filling my toolkit, that's when I started to build my capacity. So it's definitely an outside in journey and that and that's what changed my recovery and my sobriety for me. 100%. Yeah,   Unknown Speaker  3:26   Right! You know, there's I have just found that there's just a million ways to do it. And I i bristle at people who are like, oh, all you have to do is this. And that's all you have to do.    Unknown Speaker  3:41   So I like to start with a fun little game. I'm calling the lightning round. And I'll just ask you a few questions. And it doesn't have to be fast answers you can answer as quickly or as slowly. But your book is obviously going to be an amazing resource. But when you first got sober, what books were really helpful to you? Hmm.   Unknown Speaker  4:06   Well, I got sober with sober sisters, which is an online forum, which launched about eight years ago. So before that, there was nothing that I could access that that appealed to me at all. And so Lucy Rocco, who founded sober Easter's wrote a book called The sober revolution. And it was the first book that I'd ever read that referred to the kind of relationship with our culture rather than it like you said being a prescribed way or received messages and when we've moved on, on a long way in the in the UK in the conversation, and this really she likened it to a disc, you know, a bad boyfriend, a destructive relationship. And that was hugely that just spoke to me. I was like, Oh, yeah, that's that's me. And the other one I really liked at the time was Jason vales. How to quit. Drinking, how to kick drinking easily. I think it was calling bs on the kind of social piece and the brainwashing around it. That was super helpful to me. It was unpicking all the messaging really helped me.   Unknown Speaker  5:14   Yeah, that's great. I was talking to Claire Pooley. and she said the same thing. She's she also mentioned Jason vales book and I was like, so did you stop drinking easily after that?   Unknown Speaker  5:23    Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, I read those ice quit for a year. straight off. Once I found so baristas and read those two books. I was like, that's it. And I did go back after a year, which is another part of the story, which then where the self care piece came in and all the other stuff. So that Yeah, okay. Yes, definitely part of toolkit. Yeah, I   Unknown Speaker  5:51   have lots of questions about relapse stuff. I mean, I feel like everybody who's tried to quit has struggled with the stopping part, obviously. So, we'll talk a little bit about that. Do you have a go to mantra or quote that you find yourself coming back to?   Unknown Speaker  6:08   I do. I love one, the one that really got me out of some hot water, and I find myself repeating it a quite a lot. Not so much to myself. But when, with with clients may be who are struggling and we tell when we are generating mantras. And it was, I haven't come this far to only come this far. Because I was like, Yeah, right. Yeah. in all senses. Yeah. Like, what's the what's the next bit look like? What is the next bit gonna look like? Oh, shoot. Yeah,   Unknown Speaker  6:42   like come this far to only come this far?   Unknown Speaker  6:45   Yeah. That's fighting talk.   Unknown Speaker  6:50   Words. That's awesome. Okay, and do you have a regular self care routine? Like, do you have like a morning routine? Or do you think of it more in terms of like, a weekly, or weekly schedule?   Unknown Speaker  7:03   Do you know what this is a really good question. And it's something that has really evolved for me. And one of the reasons why I realized I have a really elaborate self care practice, on one of the reasons is because of my dysregulation, because of what I believe is now neuro some neuro diversity. So some sensory processing anxiety, I identify as a highly sensitive person. So I need a lot of external resourcing in terms of routine boundaries, not taking on too much. checking my diary and then taking a third off, do your calendar and then take a take that off that is my that is my aim. I don't always manage it. But that is my intention, because I always overestimate what I can do and then get stressed out. I know if I take a third off, I'm getting in the right area. Yet, so I do a lot of yoga. I love yoga, but we've been in lockdown in the UK. So I'm doing online yoga classes, but usually go to a yoga studio, where I also work. I'm not a yoga teacher, but I help out that's my contribution to the community. What else? And I mean, just I know what what is also my routine is Netflix.   Unknown Speaker  8:34   Is that your downtime?   Unknown Speaker  8:36   That honestly it is literally like if I watch an episode of whatever it is I'm into, because you know, I get quite I get a bit annoyed and a bit bored when everything has to be Like who? Because I do love yoga. Right? And I do you meditate. But I don't I hate it when things get too wordy, because as modern busy women, we still need quick fixes and modern things like so if I'm rewatching Don't tell anyone I'm rewatching Downton Abbey at the moment. I just finished down to a sec. Oh, I love it. Oh my gosh. So   Unknown Speaker  9:14   good.   Unknown Speaker  9:17   luck if I watch an episode of Downton Abbey, I literally switch off. I'm not I'm not thinking about me. I'm not thinking about the kids. You know, it really is. So So yeah. So better Netflix. What else?   Unknown Speaker  9:31   Have you been to Downton? Abbey?   Unknown Speaker  9:33   No, it's a bit. It's up north. It's up north. In the UK.   Unknown Speaker  9:38   It's South here as well.   Unknown Speaker  9:41   No in terms of what you're used to. It's like probably only about four hours drive. But for us it's like, like, possibly it's like a different universe. But I will do I really want to so when things open up again in the UK. I have to exist. beautifies Yes.   Unknown Speaker  10:00   Please do take pictures for me. Yeah. Check it out early. No, I made it. I'm okay. Yes. So the self care It sounds like you have lots of self care in terms of are you Where are you with the higher power situation?   Unknown Speaker  10:16   Well, AI is complicated.   Unknown Speaker  10:20   How How long have you got like your face?   Unknown Speaker  10:25   So I had a religious trauma as a child. Okay, God, we got loads in common right without you   Unknown Speaker  10:35   have you know, religious, you know, first chicken? Have you heard of the term super churched?   Unknown Speaker  10:41   No.   Unknown Speaker  10:44   Seek church.   Unknown Speaker  10:45   I was super churched. I interviewed this lady who was the pastor's daughter, girl, those poor girls, they go one of two ways, either either super good, or they're like me. Yeah. And so anyway, it sounds like you were super churched to some extent. Yeah.   Unknown Speaker  11:03   Yeah. I know, interestingly, but it was my parents weren't but there was that's a whole other story. But my aunt was a born again, Christian. And I got really into into that for various various reasons. Sure, but it became really dark for me. So I managed to sort of remove myself from all of that through education. And when I did my a levels, so went to college, and started studying philosophy and comparative religion. I was able to unpick it I unpicked it intellectually, but there was still a lot of that fear. And that, yeah, that that trauma, so I couldn't go anywhere near so I, you know, you know, we tried to go to traditional AIA stuff, like the first time I think when I was about 27. And I understand now that that was very, that was like, re traumatizing me. Yeah. So there was nothing This is why I mentioned sober Easter's because it was like, what's the first thing I could that I could access? Right? Because like, they were not safe space to me, but I had no idea. I had no idea that that's what was going on until fairly recently, actually, when I started looking at what trauma is. So I'm not great with but having said that, I my mic. So we had to lovely when we as a friend of ours, a dear SOPA sister called Rachel Welford, who's who right who has he she does meditation and stuff and Gong laughs and she said she caught me spiritually slutty because I basically love anything to do with ritual religions. But in a kind of I'm very interested and I like to play with them. So it's so it's a funny one it's a yes or no, it's like I'm not I'm not in I suppose a traditional higher power person, but I just think we're connected to something the universe and something much, much greater just because for the size of it. It's like something bigger, bigger, so I don't feel complicated about it. Yes, it's on my terms. That's That's for me.   Unknown Speaker  13:20   Well, I mean, it means needs to make sense, right? Yeah. Like that was always the thing for me is like it needs to make sense. Yes, there's a lot of things in an organized religion that don't really make sense. Have you ever heard of Carolyn Miss? She was on Oprah. Do you ever watch those super soul Sunday episodes?   Unknown Speaker  13:41   No,you know what happened? We’re really busy watching Downton Abbey. Or and the walking dead?     Unknown Speaker  13:52   Oh, yeah. Did you get into Game of Thrones?   Unknown Speaker  13:54   Oh my god, I love it. Literally I didn't know what I was gonna do when Game of Thrones ended because I loved it too much.   Unknown Speaker  14:02   Yeah, I always there are some books and some and some movies and TV series that when they end I'm just devastated.    Unknown Speaker  14:13   Yes.   Unknown Speaker  14:14   not totally religiously slutty but that is hilarious. But I was going to tell you about Oprah and the conversation she had with Carolyn Miss because Carolyn Miss gave one of the best exam or explanations that really resonated with me. She said that God is law. Meaning like gravity law of attraction cause and effect. I'm a little nerdy with like quantum physics, like the theory of entanglement. And there are some actually there's some great Netflix series on entanglement. If you're ever interested. I think you know what that Yeah. And it's it's framed under the title of something about quantum physics, which sounds super nerdy but it It explains a lot of things very practical things like have you ever, like thought about something that somebody random or is and then they call you or you get an email or something? And you're like, Whoa, I was just thinking about you. Yeah, that kind of explains it through the theory, I think, yeah, you'll like it.    Yeah, I could tell you're a science girl, because we're going to talk about the autonomic system and some other things. neuroscience, love me some science because it's like, you don't have to have faith. We have evidence.   Unknown Speaker  15:28   Right. Yeah. So anyway, yeah, we do. And that experience. Yeah, it's a funny subject. I mean, I just, I think experientially I, even though it was difficult for me as a teenager, I used so what I used to do is go to my room, and I used to pray and so meditate for two hours on my own. And I used to get so high. I always said that when I, I, you know, experimented with drugs, like this late teens and early 20s. And I was bit like, I'm not really gonna bother with them, because I just used to get they didn't get me as high as meditation used to. And I'm prayer, um, you know, to heighten a battle, but I mean, that's the kind of saving grace right, I suppose. I mean, I definitely took to alcohol. That was my drug of choice. I was your drug of choice. Okay.   Unknown Speaker  16:30   We'll have to we'll have to get into that. I think I only have a couple more things. What's one thing you wish you knew when you first got sober? Like, is there anything that sticks out is like Gosh, would have been nice to know.   Unknown Speaker  16:47   Yeah, I wish I'd known all the kind of the holistic this the self care toolkit,   Unknown Speaker  16:53   or sick self care. That's good. Yeah, money, but body, mind and spirit, right? We need to take care of all of them. And then what do you do for fun? We talked about chickens a little earlier. We had chickens. I love   Unknown Speaker  17:06   my chickens so much, because we've just got to say you have chickens, but you haven't got   Unknown Speaker  17:13   them with you. You don't have them anymore. Yeah, we moved. I couldn't bring them but they're beautiful. What can I so talk about what kinds do you have? Because there's so many varieties most people don't know.   Unknown Speaker  17:25   Yeah. So I have a Dutch barn founder. Who is we've called for lion and Galena.   Unknown Speaker  17:36   We have   Unknown Speaker  17:36   here No, this is down to my daughter's buff Orpington. They've got to buff orpingtons. They've got the big fluffy bottoms and fluffy legs. They're hilarious. They're hilarious,   Unknown Speaker  17:47   especially when I run.   Unknown Speaker  17:48   Yeah. But like they've got like, they're like they're on wheels or something. That's amazing. So my daughter's one is blonde. And she's called Lady ieder. And you know that lady down snap a   Unknown Speaker  18:02   man. That girl was never gonna get her day.   Unknown Speaker  18:08   So true. I can't remember that. Because I've watched it before. And I watched it when I was sober. And it's getting to that interesting part with her wish. Where that that end is gone. Yes. And I and I genuinely can't remember what happens to us.   Unknown Speaker  18:26   Before   Unknown Speaker  18:27   I was spoiler free, I know that's, that's the benefit of getting a little older as you forget.   Unknown Speaker  18:33   Oh, that's right. That's amazing.   Unknown Speaker  18:35   surprised and happy all over again. Oh, no, I had a Polish chicken that had one of those big fluffy hats. Yeah, they called her Lady Gaga. Amazing.   Unknown Speaker  18:49   So yeah, like,   Unknown Speaker  18:50   well, that is a lot of fun. The chickens are fun. It sounds like your kids like them, too. Yeah.   Unknown Speaker  18:55   So we do that. And I also when things are open, I do musical theater. So I do sing. That's how I met my husband. We were in a band together, years and years ago. And now I don't because that was all very like, I thought I was really cool. And we had this band and we've gigs and we all like proper musicians. And then I discovered the love of absolutely ridiculous frivolous musical theater. And I've got a local group that I do. So.   Unknown Speaker  19:26   Oh my gosh, do you have anything recorded? Because if you do, you must send me some links.   Unknown Speaker  19:31   Do I don't think we do. So I love it.   Unknown Speaker  19:34   Yeah, my son in high school   Unknown Speaker  19:37   was obsessed with the   Unknown Speaker  19:39   he's it like the stage he did like sound and stage prop he like he built things and oh my gosh, it was such a fun world to be in.   Unknown Speaker  19:48   I had no idea right? And it's lovely doing the amateur stuff because as somebody told me and I love this because amateur gets this. Like you know, I don't know what it's like in this But if you say, oh, you're just an amateur, it's all   Unknown Speaker  20:03   No pressure.   Unknown Speaker  20:04   Yeah, you want exactly the love of the amateur. But you know, it's almost like code for a bit shit. Right? Which suddenly, yeah, maybe maybe. But somebody said, one of our directors said, It amateur comes from the French for for the love of, because it comes from the word or more, which is we do it for the love of,   Unknown Speaker  20:29   for the love of her. That's Brian, I love that. Got to have some fun. All right, that I and I think you've probably experienced that too is when people first gets over there, like bored out of their minds. You know, their whole dopamine reward system is is skewed,   Unknown Speaker  20:46   shall we say? Yeah, yeah. And that's why you need that. Yeah, you need the holistic thing. You need the happy hitch, you need the sober treats, you need the silly things. You told   Unknown Speaker  20:56   me sources, right, lots of resources. Well, I want to talk about resources and the book, obviously. But um, maybe we could talk a little bit about your story. Do you want to just take a few minutes to walk us through the things that people that are they tell me that they love to hear? As you know, it sounds like you started drinking and doing drugs? kanyang. And, but what people really want to know is like, what made you finally decide to quit? You know, I have a I have some coaching clients that are like the spouse of the alcoholic, and, you know, they just need a little hope that it's possible that maybe their spouse is gonna quit. So yeah, anyway, but you want to just start with like, I'm always curious about like, family of origin as well.   Unknown Speaker  21:46   Hmm. Well, again, I think I've pieced a lot of this together over the last few years in terms of self study and recovery, and knowing Mandy and talking to her most days, and she is a great mental health advocate. So I've learned a lot about my own mental health journey as part of this, which I wasn't really aware of. Okay, so I was very anxious. I had, you know, various aces growing up. And my father, I'd say, identified as traditionally what I what I always identified an alcoholic, as Okay, I'm sort of, you know, yeah, pretty much wheels off the wagon kind of kind of stuff.   Unknown Speaker  22:35   Was he violent, or just absent or just absent?   Unknown Speaker  22:38   Yeah, just stops him. And I feel sorry for him now, because he was a sailor. And in those days, you didn't get any leave to see your family, you're away on the boats on ships for months on end. And they partly they used to get paid in tops of rum. They literally were enabling a whole, these poor young men who were away from their families in really cramped conditions, giving them alcohol, so and no mental health support, and no awareness of neurodiversity. At that point, any kind of autistic spectrum ADHD, highly sensitive, nothing. So, you know, it's, it's, I'm understanding that through a more compassionate lens, I think, you know. So yeah, I didn't really know him. And then I saw, I was very anxious. And like I said, I sort of took to the kind of religion as my first drug of choice, I would say, to try and self soothe in a very anxious mind. And then again, later on, I've sort of identified as highly sensitive. And through parenting, my son, who is now we realize has ADHD and is on the tourism spectrum. Obviously, that allowed a mirror into me and in my family and that sort of genetic piece, and realized that this runs through generation. And so there was, I really feel like that's a massive piece, like we said, in the kind of in the recovery conversation and alcohol use disorder, addictive behaviors, pieces, is that neuro diversity, I'm sure talk about that bit later. But for me, I don't know if you heard that the kind of phrase the sort of gray area drinking.   Unknown Speaker  24:29   Oh, yeah,   Unknown Speaker  24:30   yeah. Okay. So, I mean, that very much like me, in that. It looked pretty normal on the surface. Nothing, there were no particular issues. My husband was worried. No, none of my friends my friends just thought I was paranoid. Just thought I was absolutely batshit crazy that I was even worrying about it because everyone was getting pissed at the weekends. So there was this kind of normative drinking culture in Britain, where, if you are in that, that sort of on the alcohol use disorder spectrum slap earlier on and hazardous and harmful but not dependent, which is where I was   Unknown Speaker  25:15   harmful or harmful, but not dependent.   Unknown Speaker  25:17   Yeah. harmful and hazardous, but not dependent. So earlier on in the on the alcohol use disorder spectrum, right? Yeah, what you basically get mirrored back with, when you Eve, if you go to your doctor, or if you go to a counselor, or if you go to your friends, people will generally tell you, you haven't got problem because you're doing what's normative, right? They don't know, or maybe you don't know, underneath that. It feels like a crisis. It feels devastating to you, it feels hard work, like you're thinking you're planning and trying not to do it. You're regretting waking up at three in the morning with anxiety, but maybe only drinking twice a week. So that that was kind of where I was, it was like this awful, toxic relationship with it. And yeah, the bad boyfriend, but nothing that anyone outside could particularly put their finger on. But I had this just feeling of landslide. You know, I was like, what I'm also getting married to me is so the normative drinking culture or the alternative, which is like AA, or some of the traditional recovery, which tells telling me I have to reach a rock bottom telling me I'm I'm powerless. And I'm like, Well, no, that doesn't fit either. But if there is no early intervention, if there was no entry points to recovery earlier, then I might end up down there. But why don't want to wait for that. I don't want to wait. So there's a lot of fear, there was a lot of confusion. And there was a lot of what looked like normal and there was a lot of beating myself up. And I'd say that was going on from my late 20s through my early 30s through to my mid 30s. And I sort of managed my mental health by a mixture kind of hot yoga, I was always working out. I had enough I had enough resources that alcohol was one of them. And when I became a mom, we moved to a new town. And I moved away from all my friends. My husband was working in London as a journalist, I'd stopped working in London as a journalist. So I was literally at home stuck on my own, not knowing anyone. bored, lonely, tired, angry, I wasn't hungry. I had all the other frickin triggers. And it literally was like now I understand that that's why our call I think dance center stage at that point, because there was there were no other resources for me. I couldn't get to meetings because I didn't have the childcare like there is no support in the UK for you. Unless you are totally up shake Creek. Right. Wow. So it's changed a lot. But I think that's why the rise of the cyber forums in the UK has gone stratospheric there are so many it's because necessity is so often the mother of invention. And it's like and it's no and it's also no mistake, I don't think or no coincidence that many of them are women LED. It's like women are really leading the kind of new alternative patchworks to recovery. Right. Right. So, so that was it. So I found so barristers you know, I tried to stop every week. I was like, I'm never drinking again. Every Sunday morning. I was like,   Unknown Speaker  28:44   are you just waking up with headaches? And yeah, like hung over and feeling bad about like, maybe not paying attention to the kids and that kind of thing?   Unknown Speaker  28:53   Yeah, exactly. So it was very much that Yeah, and very Yeah, just feeling really guilty. About Yeah, just all of it. I always say that there was before that there was this kind of dichotomy between there was this healthy Kate you know, healthy Kate who wanted to go for our goals and kind of really wanted to? I've always, you know, wanted that kind of health happiness high quite high. vibing Yeah. And then there was this kind of you know, that this kind of destructive thing with the Hedden ism the coping with the anxiety with drinking and then not being able to control that. And then so that there was this there were these two bits to me and I would go between the two. And I think what motherhood did was just open that chasm even more It was like, none of this is fitting with my values about how I want to be and how I like what if they need to go to hospital and my house spends at work. And I've had a couple of glasses of wine in the evening. I can't, I can't, but I didn't know how to chill out. I didn't know how to relax. I didn't know our back. And also we've got mummy wine culture in there, which is massive. Saying, of course, you need mommy juice, you know, seven o'clock. So it was very confusing. It was so confusing. So when I found so Brister, I was like someone's prep throw me a lifeline. That's it. I'm in and I was ready, willing and able, not feeling like I was able 100% but I was going to give it my darndest, you know? So   Unknown Speaker  30:40   that was the beginning. The beginning. How old were you when you started drinking?   Unknown Speaker  30:46   16 I think Yeah,   Unknown Speaker  30:47   just like a typical like, let's try this out kind of stuff.   Unknown Speaker  30:51   Yeah, cuz I was such a good girl. You know, I stopped and start smoking. And I did drain. I was so like, didn't do it until it was what actually it's 18 in the UK for alcohol, but you know, everyone does. When everyone's drinking. Everyone did when they were Yeah, yeah. Especially for my generation when you could fake all your ID and just no one asked.   Unknown Speaker  31:17   Nobody care. No, that's funny. Um, okay, so you get sober. And you go through the sober. He says, did you experience and you're married at this time, right?   Unknown Speaker  31:29   Yeah. So we got married. I've been with my husband like 25 years now.   Unknown Speaker  31:34   I think. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. My husband and I, you must have been he young when you met him?   Unknown Speaker  31:41   We were in our 20s. Yeah.   Unknown Speaker  31:43   Okay. I'm not gonna ask you how old you are. But my husband and I got together in our met when he was 24. And he seems like, like, my son is almost 20 mine. And I was like, Oh my God, he's a baby. So I can't believe we were so young. We got together can't believe that. Oh, yeah. My   Unknown Speaker  31:59   husband is 23 when I met him.   Unknown Speaker  32:02   Wow, we do a lot of parallels. That's so funny. So okay, so you get sober was he? How did he feel about you getting sober? Was he like, oh, what about hot sex? Like, is that guy?   Unknown Speaker  32:16   He was definitely that. And there was, but there was this, he was so bored of me saying this. He was just like, stop moaning. So what I decided to do is I decided not to tell him for about a month. I just did it. Because I wanted to say to him, I have this is serious this time, I haven't been doing it. And this is what it what I'm up to. Rather than say, I need your help to do this. I just was like, by the way I'm doing this. And, and I said I did tell him after about three weeks, I think because I was on my phone or my tablet all the time. So baristas. And I thought he might think I was having an affair. So I better tell him. Because I think because I was never on it before I like going back like nearly 10 years like social media wasn't what it is. Right? Now. Anyway, me. Yeah, you.   Unknown Speaker  33:19   Did he ask you or did you just share it? No, I   Unknown Speaker  33:22   just caught him looking at me kind of and I was like, Look, just by the way, this is what I'm doing. And I'm on this forum. It felt very risky, though. It really did. Like, I think one of the hardest things for that portion of drinkers, I'd say that, you know, one of the hard things is that there's a lot of fear for you and of the relationship changing. The fun going and the what are we going to do and we have to kind of re reinvent things, you know, yeah,   Unknown Speaker  33:57   you have to readjust a little bit,   Unknown Speaker  33:58   too, don't you?   Unknown Speaker  34:00   Yeah. And then my husband's over. But it's, I mean, that's the one thing I hear a lot it's like well what do you do if your husband still drinks You know, that's the main people like everybody has to adjust. So you're just thought it was okay.   Unknown Speaker  34:16   Yeah. And I think well i think what you realize as you go down the line is that that is symptomatic of how important alcohol has become in your own heads and your own life. Because once it isn't, it's like well we do loads of different things we go walking we walk the dog we go out for dinner we go on holiday we tour I mean we do we do loads of stuff. We don't do anything at the mangas we're in lockdown, but that's a whole lot and try and find space all of us just going to a different corners of basketball right now. I'm just going but yeah, but that is that's the fear and I think that really goes with time because you realize As alcohol diminishes, it's great. And it becomes less and less important. It's like, well, I can't even remember doing drinking with him now, which is   Unknown Speaker  35:09   bad. So he doesn't he doesn't drink that much.   Unknown Speaker  35:11   He know he drinks a bit. But yeah,   Unknown Speaker  35:14   it doesn't matter. You   Unknown Speaker  35:16   know, I didn't, I never did care, to be honest. Because I just, I was always like, this is mine, I don't want anyone else to be part of it. Because if they are, they will knock me off, I got it, it's mine, I'm gonna be in control of it. And like audit my little sober flame that I was just gonna go like that to protect it, yeah, protects it, and it's mine. Otherwise, if someone else gets to near it, they can blow it out. And I'm not gonna let them   Unknown Speaker  35:41   you know, right, right. You know, that's not taking full responsibility of your recovery. And I think that's amazing. So what were some of the things that you learned in the summary status?   Unknown Speaker  35:53   Early Well, can the connection, how important connection is. And again, I didn't realize that at the time, because all of my recovery that has happened since I then, you know, I said, I went back to drinking, because I hadn't got the toolkit, I hadn't got the tools for living. So all the bad old habits crept back in, but the main thing that I got, there was that connection, and that just literally rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat day in day out one day at a time, right? Just that, that that sort of some of the habit change muscle power behind me, I definitely had that. But I didn't have the tools about Nervous System regulation. I did not know anything about self compassion. I had, I went on to study the Science of Happiness. And that really changed my life and my entire outlook on what it is to be human. Because they look at all the keys of happiness, and what's right with us about our pro social natures. Gratitude, compassion, self compassion. Or, you know that that side, we were talking about higher power, and I and, you know, all for me has always been a big thing, looking at the night sky, forest walks, but actually starting to skillfully incorporate all of those things and work with them and develop them as in or as resources. I started to get better properly. Like, my mental health got better, I was able to take third off my   Unknown Speaker  37:34   list. Did you say Science of Happiness?   Unknown Speaker  37:38   Yeah, it's called the Science of Happiness. And it's basically an online course you can do at Harvard and Barclay, with the ED x platform. So it's a MOOC modular online course, over about 10 weeks, and it's an evolutionary theory and neuroscience around what it is to be mammalian pro social effect, the about the 16% of happiness that we can actually do something about. Yeah, it is just a fabulous, fabulous, fabulous course. And it was that that then I realized this a lot of people on forums talking about similar things, right. So it was at that point where I was like, You know what, I'm going to train as a coach, I don't see any courses that I like. So I'm going to do a grounding in life coaching like a two year Diploma in life coaching, then, I'm going to build a my own course, on my own package that incorporates positive psychology and the Science of Happiness is I think that's what we need. Oh, yeah. So So that was my journey. And in between all of that I sort of met Mandy and started our work together.   Unknown Speaker  38:53   Yeah, you guys are doing brilliant work, you have the you guys are cofounders of love, sober, calm, change your relationship with alcohol. I know you have courses and coaching and community with accountability. Brilliant, I just love it. I love what you guys are doing.   Unknown Speaker  39:09   It's just you know what, that whole one thing that that we feel really passionate about, sorry, I'm sort of like veering off in different directions. But that idea of community connection, collaboration, which I know that she recovers is so brilliant. But Mandy and I because we're both busy moms, we could not be doing any the work that we're doing, if we weren't collaborating. And also then we have certain people in the in our in our community that that help as well. And we just were a sort of a more collective and a community interest company, basically. Right. Um, so yeah, I yeah, so all of this kind of growth. I mean, I think one of the one of the The keys for me and I don't really know how to explain it other than this was like, a such a seminal moment for me. And it was the last time I drank was my last day one touch word. You know, don't take it for granted. But it was my last day. Last day one. And I had gone through the whole shallow shallow shallow shot, I'd stopped drinking five months and a half drink then I stopped again for a few months and, and I went up to London, it was my sister in law's 40th birthday. And, anyway, To cut a long story short, we did end up I did end up drinking. And I woke up in the morning. And I it was a beautiful, hot, sunny day, and I was paralyzed with fear. It was like, the darkness had come on me so badly. I could barely move for the shame. It was like I was, I was fucking broken. Like, and I don't know why, particularly that particular night. I don't know, my I was just done, right.   Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Hello Loves, Well, this is episode 150! It kinda feels like a big milestone for me. The podcast has grown quite a bit since it started over 4 years ago. We’re broadcast to 63 countries, there have been about 220K downloads and we’ve had some absolutely amazing guests. So Thank you to all who are listening and who send me notes and leave reviews. I can’t tell you how much I appreciate you. You truly are the reason I stay inspired to keep publishing.  Today, my guest is Clare Pooley. She’s a NYT best selling author of The Authenticity Project, and  “The Sober Diaries” that chronicled her first year of sobriety. She is a wife,  mother of 3 kids and has been alcohol free since 2015. This episode is brought to you by Sobriety Reset.com If you are struggling to get your first 30 days, this is an online, self paced program designed to tackle the biggest obstacles of getting sober, so that you feel prepared, supported and connected and get that first milestone to build momentum. For more details, visit sobrietyreset.com So there ya have it, please enjoy this conversation, with the super sweet and super talented Clare Pooley!  

Hello Loves, Thank you for downloading the podcast, my name is Arlina, and I’ll be your host.  Today, my guest is JF Benoist is the founder and program manager of The Exclusive Hawaii, a non 12 step, holistic addiction treatment center.  Benoist is well-known for the therapeutic methodology he created, Experiential Engagement Therapy™ (EET), which helps people more effectively resolve their self-destructive core beliefs.   In addition to his work in therapy, Benoist is also the author of the bestselling self-help book,  “Addicted to the Monkey Mind: Change the Programming That Sabotages Your Life”  https://amzn.to/3sGoosI We cover a LOT of book recommendations, so check out the show notes for a list of books we talked about. This episode is brought to you by Sober Life School, where you can find programs like “Sobriety Reset - a 30 Day Bootcamp” to help you get a jumpstart on your journey to abstinence. There’s a series of videos covering everything from how to prep for day 1, how to handle cravings, social situations, emotional triggers and even sleep issues and sober sex. Best part is you can do it from the privacy of your own home, with live support from me and the others in the private group. So if you’re ready to ditch the booze, I’ll see you in the group! So there ya have it, please enjoy this conversation, with JF

Hello Loves, Thank you for downloading the podcast, my name is Arlina, and I’ll be your host.  Today, my guest is Kimberly Lorenz, Certified Hypnotist, and Professional Certified Hypnosis Instructor.  I am a huge advocate of reprogramming the subconscious mind to eliminate negative beliefs, so that we break out of self-sabotage, reach our goals, and make lasting changes.  So after I was laid off from my high-tech sales job in Dec of 2020, I decided to start my own coaching business.  Obviously, I was happy to finally be free of the corporate world, but I was also wrestling with a lot of fears and self-doubt. That’s when I reached out to Kimberly to help me face those fears, get to the root cause and let go of any subconscious beliefs that could be blocking my progress.  It’s hard to give you a quick recap of how magical it felt, and how transformative the process was, so I invited her to be a guest on the podcast so that through my experience, you might identify with my process and decide to check it out yourself.  (share a resource) This episode is brought to you by Sobriety Reset, a 30-day boot camp to help you build a foundation of sobriety. It’s an online self-paced course with videos that break down the neuroscience and mechanics of addiction so you see how it’s impersonal which helps to relieve shame. But there are tons of bite-sized videos on how to handle social situations, cravings, emotional triggers, relationships, sleep issues, and even how to have fun again, without the booze, all from the privacy and comfort of your own home. There’s also a private Facebook group where I post videos and answer questions every day.  So if you’re looking for a way to build a foundation of sobriety and get some momentum for an alcohol-free life, I hope you give it a try! Register today at sobrietyreset.com Next round starts April 1st. And that’s no joke :) Well, there ya have it, please enjoy this conversation, with Kimberly!

Hello Loves, Thank you for downloading the podcast, my name is Arlina, and I’ll be your host.  Today, my guests are Tami and Ryan Canaday. They are the founders of “Free Community” and Wagon Coffee Roasters. Ryan is a pastor in recovery and together with his lovely wife Tami, they join me for a conversation to discuss both sides of the addiction story as it relates to the whole family. They are darling beautiful humans, and towards the end, I was so touched by their inclusion of everyone, including the LGBTQ community, and what it cost them to do so, I was moved to tears. They are such beautiful people. Just a little heads up, we had a little bit of technical difficulty, so in some spots of the interview you might be hearing    This episode is brought to you by Sober Life School - In case you didn’t know I offer customized coaching programs for people in recovery. If you’re just getting sober or just want to go deeper into your personal development, you can schedule a free 30-minute strategy call. There’s no pressure to commit to anything, and when you leave, you’ll have a strategy to reach your specific goals and an opportunity to work with me for additional support. To hear more episodes like this one, or subscribe to the weekly newsletter. just visit odaatchat.com  So there ya have it, please enjoy this conversation, with Tami and Ryan!

Hello Loves, Thank you for downloading the podcast, my name is Arlina, and I’ll be your host.  Today, my guest is Dr. William Nelson. He shares his personal experience with watching his daughter Lauren struggle with heroin addiction, as well as his work that centers around trying to help his patients recover from addiction. I was a guest on his podcast as well, and I’ve posted a link to that interview in the show notes. This episode is brought to you by “Reinvent - the 6-week Self-Esteem Workshop”, starting on 3/16 at 6:00 pm PST / 9:00 EST. The premise of the class is that we only allow into our lives, what we believe we deserve, on a subconscious level. When we change our beliefs and raise our self-esteem, then everything else changes.  I’ve been facilitating this for a while now, and I’ve seen HUGE transformations after these classes. We focus on gaining Clarity on what we want, Confidence to take action, and Clear the internal blocks and resistance so you can gain momentum and reach your goals.   Laura manifested her dream home, Jennifer changed her relationship with her children, Kim was finally able to start asking for what she wanted, without feeling guilty, Carrie got the confidence to ask for a raise, and Donna ended a toxic relationship.  You can read more about the transformational results by visiting www.SelfEsteemCourse.com   So there ya have it, please enjoy this wide-ranging conversation, with Dr. Nelson!  

Hello Loves, Thank you for downloading the podcast, my name is Arlina, and I’ll be your host.  Today, my guest is Erica C Barnett, author of Quitter, a memoir of drinking, relapse and Recovery, and journalist. She writes for Publicola.com, a publication that focuses on news politics and urbanism.  We talk about her experience with alcoholism, chronic relapse, the pros and cons of treatment centers, and how she got her last “day one”.  This episode is brought to you by Sober Life School - Find resources to get your first 30 days of sobriety with the Sobriety Reset class, or find out how to end self-sabotage and reach your goals with “Reinvent - a 6-week self-esteem workshop”, or get private customized support with 1:1 coaching. Just visit soberlifeschool.com So there ya have it, please enjoy this conversation, with___Erica____!

Harness Your Strengths To Shift From Addiction To Abundance. Jesse is going to share how he recovered from opioid addiction and a ton of practical solutions to help you on your sobriety journey. But before we jump in, I’d like to announce that after 4 years of doing the podcast, and much deliberation, the name of the podcast is changing to “The One Day At A Time Podcast”!! When I originally chose the name, I thought it sounded kinda catchy and I named it after my favorite 12 step meeting. What I didn’t realize is that the acronym  “ODAAT” is not widely known, even in the recovery community! And is regularly misspelled, so it’s been a struggle from the start. So now, it’s simply called The One Day At A Time Podcast, because that’s still one of my favorite recovery sayings.  To hear more episodes like this one, along with recommendations for books, meditations, and other recovery resources I discover on the interwebs, just visit odaatchat.com and subscribe to the weekly newsletter. So there ya have it, let’s jump into the conversation, with Jesse!

Hello Boys & Girls, Thank you for downloading the podcast, my name is Arlina, and I’ll be your host. If this is your first time listening, ODAAT stands for “one day at a time. Today, my guest is Jessica Jeboult, host of the popular recovery podcast “A Sober Girl’s Guide” and author of “Save Your Own Damn Life”. She’s a fun, no nonsense kinda gal who has dedicated her life to helping other people recover from addiction, in whatever way is best for them. And it’s her second time on the podcast! We get into some family issues, different modalities of healing and some practical ways to maintain your recovery. So there ya have it, please enjoy this wide ranging conversation, with Jessica!

Hello Loves, Thanks for downloading the podcast, my name is Arlina, and I’ll be your host. And in case you’re wondering, ODAAT stands for one day at a time! Today’s  guest is Chis, my dear friend from back home. We talk about all kinds of things including  how he developed alcoholism later in life, how easy it is to switch addictions, how he found recovery. Chris is super charming, he’s got a huge heart and he’s a lot of fun. To hear more episodes like this one, just visit odaatchat.com You can also get these episodes delivered right to your inbox by subscribing to the weekly newsletter. So there ya have it, let’s jump into the conversation, with Chris!

Thank you for downloading the podcast, my name is Arlina, and I’ll be your host.  Today, my guest is Meg Love, who grew up the daughter of a preacher. Meg shares a traumatic childhood event that led to addiction, and an abusive relationship, all of which nearly cost her life.   But this is a story of hope and triumph! Meg has survived some pretty awful situations, and yet she has taken charge of her life, had a complete psychic change, and now has a life she loves. She’s an absolute miracle! She’s also got a wicked sense of humor and a heart of gold. If you would like to hear more episodes like this one, along with recommendations for books, meditations and all kinds of other recovery resources, just visit odaatchat.com and subscribe to the weekly newsletter. So there ya have it! I hope you enjoy this conversation, with Meg!

Hello Loves, Thank you for downloading the podcast, my name is Arlina, and I’ll be your host.   My guest is Steff Rusher, founder of “Fallen” a clothing line created to bring awareness to rape, sexual slavery, and human trafficking.  She donates 20% of all profits from clothing to the “Underground Railroad organization.”  Their website tag line is “We exist to rescue children from sex trafficking and sex exploitation. I’ll just give you a heads up that although this is ultimately a story of overcoming addiction, hope and inspiration, some of the content is tough to hear. But we do talk a lot about solutions and we also have a lot of fun because hey, that’s just how we are! Steff demonstrates a tremendous amount of strength and courage to have come so far. I intentionally chose to leave this episode largely unedited because I believe there is strength in vulnerability.  Also because what has happened to her still carries consequences and I felt it was important to bear witness to the after effects. I was so moved by her story and her mission, that I am including a link to the Underground Railroad  Organization on my website as well, to help those who are committed to rescuing victims of sexual slavery. There’s actually a powerful documentary on Amazon and I’ll leave a link to it in the show notes. Steff’s continues to live by example, what is possible for all of us, which is to heal our past. So with that, I would like to share this conversation with Steff. 

Hello Loves, Thank you for downloading the podcast, my name is Arlina, and I’ll be your host.  Today, my guest is Zach Mathers, host of Braving the Journey Podcast. Zach shares his story with us and talked about some of his painful challenges including multiple relapses, an affair and his struggle to find a path to recovery that works for him. We all recover differently, and if you’re struggling to find your way, his story will give you hope. To hear more episodes like this one, along with recommendations for books, meditations, and other recovery resources I discover on the interwebs, just visit odaatchat.com and subscribe to the weekly newsletter. So there ya have it, let’s jump into the conversation, with Zach!

Hey Friends, Thank you for downloading the podcast, my name is Arlina, and I’ll be your host.  Today, my guest is Mackenzie, a dear friend from my hometown. She’s now a fitness expert in recovery, but she’s come a long way and I can’t wait for you to hear her story! To hear more episodes like this one, along with recommendations for books, meditations, and other recovery resources I discover I reserve for my private Facebook group, just visit odaatchat.com and subscribe to the weekly newsletter. So there ya have it, let’s jump into the conversation, with Mackenzie!

Hey Friends, Thank you for downloading the podcast, my name is Arlina, and I’ll be your host.  Today, my guest is Brock Bevell. Brock is a family man with 7 children, six daughters, and one son. He is a retired Police Officer who was run over on duty and ultimately retired from the injuries. Today, Brock inspires thousands to overcome their struggle with drug addiction without medications and intensive rehabilitation. Brock shows a tremendous amount of courage by being so transparent about his addiction, having been a former undercover detective. I know from other conversations with first responders just how much PTSD they have to deal with, so it's truly an honor to provide a space where someone like Brock can tell the truth and help destigmatize the need to get help. To hear more episodes like this one, just visit odaatchat.com or you can subscribe to the newsletter and get new episodes delivered right to your inbox. So there ya have it, let’s jump into the conversation, with Brock!

Lightning Round Questions Favorite quote:  “Find The Good And Focus On It” Favorite books: Recovery, by Russel Brand - https://amzn.to/2WOvxca Recovery Routine: Wake up at 5:00 am, 3 hours of journaling, meditation, exercise, connection throughout the day.   Well Hello Hello Thank you for downloading the podcast, my name is Arlina, and I’ll be your host.  Today, my guest is Tim Ringgold, TedX speaker, board-certified music therapist, and author of Sonic Recovery-Harness the Power of Music To Stay Sober (link in show notes at odaatchat.com) https://amzn.to/3n4jked  I gotta tell you, Tim is such a wealth of knowledge and he delivered so many helpful ideas, suggestions, and resources, I could barely keep up!  We talked a lot about how to deal with stress, which is a huge trigger for people in recovery. Tim is hosting the Stress Elimination Summit, which has an amazing lineup of speakers including Tommy Rosen, David Aspery, and yours truly! You can register for free at stresseliminationsummit.com So there ya have it, let’s jump into the conversation, with Tim!

Lightning Round Questions Favorite quote: “Sobriety Delivers What Drinking Promised” Favorite books: This Naked Mind by Annie Grace, Untamed, Alcoholics Anonymous, aka “Big Book” Recovery Routine: “Self Care is a non-negotiable”    Hello, my loves! Thank you for downloading the podcast, my name is Arlina, and I’ll be your host.  Today, my guest is Michelle Smith, creator of the very popular FB Group, Recovery Is The New Black, a digital community for moms in recovery. As a wife and working mother of two, Michelle fell into the "mommy juice" drinking culture. She found a way out and has been in recovery from alcohol abuse since 2016. As a certified addiction and mental health counselor, she provides services to other moms who are seeking supportive alternatives to a boozy culture that tells us alcohol is an accessory to motherhood. Michelle has 20 years of experience in the field of addiction medicine and behavioral health treatment. One last thing before we jump in, if you are struggling to get your first 30 days alcohol-free, you can enroll in Sobriety Reset, a private online course, with videos and worksheets designed to help you overcome the most challenging hurdles in early sobriety. Things like emotional triggers, how to handle social events, boredom, sleep issues, and more. All the most effective strategies & lessons I’ve learned over my 26 years in recovery and as a coach. Plus if you decide to enroll before January 1st, you’ll save $60 on the program. For all the details, visit SobrietyRest.com  So without further ado, please enjoy this wide-ranging conversation, with Michelle!