There are certain Christian traditions that seem talk about how we need more “Bible-based teaching.” These same traditions that tend to indicate that they are elevating the Bible and take pride in “understanding the Bible literally” or, if they actually deign to admit that it is impossible to take the entire Bible literally because, well, least of all, there are poems in the Bible (even an entire book of poetry called the Psalms) and you can’t actually take a poem literally or you’ve totally missed the point, then they will instead declare that they, and maybe only they, are “taking the Bible seriously.”Some of these same traditions have churches and leaders who have done things like silence women, perpetuate abuse and discrimination, gather enormous wealth, or created their own kingdoms and then done what is “necessary” to protect them. (See the Secrets of Hillsong documentary, and the Rise and Fall of Mars Hill podcast)I’m not usually one to criticize other Christian traditions, but my aggravation at the way certain segments of the Christian Church are seen as representative of the entire Christian Tradition has grown in recent years. I usually want to try and just get along. Let’s just keep talking about grace and do our best to love one another. But still, I have become sick of a term like “Bible-believing” being far-too-often a code for a supposed God-sanctioned exclusion of anyone who is not a white man.How is it that “Bible-believing” has come to mean in some circles that because there are a few places in the New Testament that have references like “women be silent in church” or “wives submit to your husbands” that that gives “wise male leaders” the right to subjugate women and pretty much anyone else they deem “less than” by using an institution that is actually meant to represent a community that is also described in that same New Testament as one where “there is no longer male and female; for all of you are one in Christ Jesus?” (Galatians 3:28)If I’m a leader in a true “Bible-believing church,” shouldn’t I be shining a light on ALL the heroes of the faith, instead of just a select few? How about people like Sarah, Deborah, Hannah, Ruth, Naomi, or Elizabeth, just to name a few?And indeed what about Mary? Should we silence Jesus’ mother in the church? In some churches it seems so, because how can Mary’s song be heard as anything other than just a personal song of praise (I guess women are allowed to have those) in places that continue to perpetuate power for the few at the expense of others?Mary sings - and I’m just quoting the Bible here…He has brought down the powerful from their thrones and lifted up the lowly;he has filled the hungry with good things and sent the rich away empty. (Luke 1:52-53)Hmm. I’m thinking there words are a little hard to swallow while flying in your private jet to your next speaking gig at the Bible believing mega-church where your college buddy is the head pastor?I’m sick of seeing Christianity being portrayed as synonymous with corruption, abuse, discrimination, and the like. And I don’t want to defend the religion of Christianity. I want to instead point to the Bible, not as a proof-text about how to see things my way, but because it has a ton to say against the corruption of power, especially when that power is claimed as divine right.As a Christian, I am supposed to see things through the lens of Jesus Christ and Jesus didn’t do any of the manipulating, excluding, discriminating, or defending or bolstering of his power or authority that you see among church leadership in certain circles. Sure, we can say, that if Jesus is God incarnate, then he simply **has** all power and authority (no defending needed), and we ought to just be obedient subjects. But interestingly, Jesus himself didn’t even make that argument.He spoke of coming to serve and not be served. Instead of consolidating power and protecting his inner circle so that they would keep him in place so his religious movement would grow in numbers and also in political influence, Jesus was executed by a collusion of the state and religious powers of his day, and his inner circle was a scattered and broken mess (with one who denied he even knew Jesus, and another who betrayed him to the authorities).Of course we know the ones who did stay true to Jesus even after he was arrested and given the death penalty. They were the same ones who God chose as the first people to go and tell Jesus’ other followers about the incredible news of him being raised from the dead. The real way the Jesus movement continued actually started with these people bringing this good news (Gospel!) and speaking it to other disciples. If that isn’t speaking in church I don’t know what is! These are the models for who should speak and to whom we ought to listen!Matthew says it was “Mary Magdalene and the other Mary,” (Matthew 28:1) Mark says it was “, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome,” (Mark 16:1), Luke says it was “Mary Magdalene, Joanna, and Mary the mother of James,” (Luke 24:10) and okay, John tells things a bit differently, but the key moment still involves Mary Magdalene as the central participant.All four sources agree that the most important message to convey to “the church” was first entrusted to women. So how about we listen! How about we also listen to Mary’s song of justice? How about we listen to any woman who stands up to speak?My own denomination has been ordaining women ministers since 1966, before I was born. I’ve never known a time when there weren’t women preachers. If you asked me to name you a few great pastors I know, the first few names out of my mouth would be Theresa, Heather, Jeya.I am flabbergasted that something like it being wrong to bar people from leadership based on their gender is still something we have to make a point of saying. It’s enough to make someone walk away from this whole thing called Christianity. And people have. And people are.Maybe you need to step away for a while. Or maybe you need to walk away from a segment of the Christian tradition where you have experienced hurt. I get it.I pray, though, that you might still look for or stay in and work for a community where Mary’s song is taken just as seriously as everything else in the Bible, where the reality of women pastors and preachers is just a given. I pray that together we can listen, speak, and help create communities actually centred on Christ who gave up power, who became human, whose love is without condition or bounds—the communities of grace, compassion, and care that people so desperately need. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

A podcast episode based on a written reflection first posted to the Noticing Delight Substack. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Reading is interpreting. We know this more keenly than ever because we interpret all the time.You receive an email announcing that you have won a cruise. You read just a bit of it and already you have done your interpretation. It is spam or a scam. You delete it or send it to your Junk Mail folder.You read a news story and wonder if they have really got all their facts straight. Where is the news from? Is it the Globe and Mail or the National Post? NBC or Fox News? You interpret what you read or watch accordingly based on the source, on your beliefs, and probably a host of other things.The same goes for novels, plays, movies, TV shows. You are reading or watching, and interpreting. All the time.Reading the Bible isn’t any different. We don’t just read and get “the facts” or “the plain meaning.” Interpretation happens. One of the most important things to pay attention to is what we can call the narrative arc of Scripture.When reading the Bible one really must enter the world of the story. We often zero in on something small, but we also must zoom out to take in the wideness and wonder. We aim to resist proof-texting (quoting a single verse to just prove a point). Instead, we read one verse in light of another, a story in light of the law, a letter in light of a psalm, a series of proverbs in light of the book of Job and on and on.Thanks for reading Noticing Delight! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.So knowing something about the overall arc of scripture is important for us as we interpret particular parts of Scripture. When starting at the beginning, we discover that God created all that is and called it good. This seems to be as good a founding principle as anything. Creation is good, the animals are good, human beings are good. Then, there is a fall from original goodness. Things get twisted or distorted. And then, as we read forward in the story, there is a grand restoration. We could see this narrative arc as life - death - new life, remembering always that there is an original goodness.So, anytime we come up against a thought, or a whisper, or a hint of anything in all creation, and most especially humans (called images of the divine), being talked about as less-than, we know that this is simply not in line with the overall arc of Scripture that is emphatic about the high worth and goodness of all that has been created.The arc of scripture points to prevenient grace, a technical term that basically means grace before anything else. God’s grace is not primarily seen as a response to some terrible thing that humans have done. It is not that the Almighty is waiting “up there” watching for us to slip up, to transgress, so He can decide suddenly at that point, to be gracious. No, God’s grace is THE starting point. God is gracious. God’s love is a constant: in good times and bad, when we get it right and when we get it wrong.The overall arc of scripture points to creation and then re-creation. There is something new that God is doing. It also points to God being all about justice and grace at the very same time. Justice and grace are not opposites in God’s way of doing things. They belong together.The overall arc of scripture is not best communicated in concepts, but in story. This is why we might call it the narrative arc of Scripture.There is a story of God with a particular people.There is wandering in the wilderness, the experience of exile from home, and there is the jubilation of return.There is a garden with a tree of life at the beginning and a broken relationship between God and humans, and then stories about gardens and a tree of life and the reconciliation of God and humans toward the end.There is certainly far more that could be said about the narrative arc of Scripture, and in particular, what to do with the more challenging bits, but the important thing for us is that we enter into the narrative.You see, we are shaped by story, and this particular story that keeps speaking, and keeps being re-told, has deep truth and deep wisdom. It is worth interpreting.You enter this particular story and it becomes your story. Life - death - new life. Wandering in the wilderness, exile from home, the promised jubilation of return. Broken relationships and a loss of the ease of life in the garden, and a longing to find a way back. A story of God who enters human life as a baby born in the most humble of circumstances, whose mother sings of the powerful being brought down from their thrones and lifting up of the lowly. A crucifixion, humiliation, and abandonment, and yet a resurrection and vindication. You enter this story and let it shape you, more than all the competing stories out there. So interpreting this grand narrative, with all the stories, letters, poems, laws, prophecies, and sayings that it holds becomes quite important.This Saturday, Nov 18 at 9:30am, I’m leading a workshop on imaginative interpretation of the Bible. It is in-person only, so if you are in Winnipeg and you’d like to come, just email me at matt@mattbrough.com. Or, if you’d be interested in this workshop being on Zoom, email me and let me know.Thanks for reading Noticing Delight! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

You can listen to the version audio or read the full reflection (transcript) below:The fact that we hold this collection of books as sacred (or if you personally don’t, you may at least agree that there is deep ancient wisdom there), is enough to say that we may want to do our best to understand what the Bible is all about. Interpreting the Bible can be challenging but, believe it or not, it can also be fun, and diving into understanding the bible through imaginative engagement with the stories, letters, poems and more that lie within its pages can be deeply rewarding, even life-changing.On Saturday, Nov 18th, 2023 from 9:30 to 11:30, I will be offering a workshop on Interpreting the Bible Imaginatively. (In person only at 590 University Cres, Winnipeg) Email me if you plan to come!The idea for this started when last year someone asked me about where ideas for some of my sermons come from. They were basically commenting on how they seemed to “get more out of it” when listening to a sermon about a particular text than when they would read the same text on their own. This isn’t really that surprising. It is almost always better to be in a community setting when trying to understand the Bible (or any text). Also, I spend many hours on a given sermon, I went to seminary, and I have over twenty years of preaching experience. At the same time, I really believe that there are things anyone can learn to help them in their understanding of the Bible, and one of the greatest things we can learn is how to read Scriptures while engaging our imaginations.What do I mean by that? Part of it is giving yourself permission. Permission to play with the text, to wonder, to ask questions, to focus in on specific images or words, and to focus out on the wider story arc, seeking connections with other parts of the Bible.This is what we will learn and practice together at our little 2 hour workshop on Nov 18th, but for now, here’s a bit of a reflection on some of the challenges of this approach…It can sometimes be hard to interpret scripture by using our imagination because we can feel hemmed in by a number of things. We may feel restricted by tradition, by particular teaching that is ingrained in us. We may feel constrained by certain concepts of God. We may have been taught that God absolutely must be this way or that way. We may feel trapped by particular philosophies, world-views, or pedagogies. For example, we may subtly believe that authority is never to be questioned, or we may believe the opposite: that no authority is to be trusted. We may somehow feel limited by the Bible itself. Shouldn’t we look at more than just scripture? Or we may feel paralyzed by a lack of biblical knowledge and so we hesitate to jump in. For some of us, we have been taught not to trust ourselves, or that our thoughts or ideas do not have value, or are probably wrong. Or we don’t want to risk sharing something that we imagine coming from a biblical text for fear that we will sound stupid, or that others with more theological knowledge might shut us down or shame us. Maybe we’ve been shut down before.Another reason it can be hard to interpret scripture imaginatively is because we have a sense that the Bible is sacred, and so to wrestle with it, question it, read against it at times, or play with it, might seem somehow irreligious or just plain wrong.But, perhaps the most difficult barrier to interpreting scripture imaginatively is that many of us have all but lost our ability to imagine at all. We are more used to formulas, processes, techniques, and the application of critical methods. Of course, we can learn those tools as well and they can be of great help, but imagination is another matter, and is actually, for the average reader of the Bible, more readily available, and dare I say, more fun to employ.When confronted with a story from the bible it might be very useful to ask “what is the historical context of this story?” We may even have a good study bible or commentary that can help us answer that. But we might not be as used to thinking to ourselves things like: “I’m going to pretend that I’m a shepherd and think about how I would feel or what I would do if an angel suddenly showed up in my field.” This may not be the best example, but you get what I mean, I think. My point is that for some of us, somehow our imagination engaging with the text seems less legitimate than historical-critical knowledge. We have held some ways of knowing as the ONLY ways, and have often devalued and severely underused our imagination, to the point that we are hopelessly out of practice.The imagination is relegated often to the realm of children alone, and many adults have forgotten how to use it. This is to our detriment, because without imagination, our engagement with such a diverse and complex set of books ranging in literary forms from poetry to letters, to narrative, to law codes, to parables, will always languish. Not only will we understand less about what the Bible is saying, but this most sacred text will feel further and further from us. Engaging imaginatively with the Bible (and perhaps with anything) jumpstarts relevance and application. What I mean is that when you apply your imagination to a particular Biblical text, you are becoming invested. You are opening yourself up to what it might be saying to you. So, perhaps you’ll join me, if you can on Nov 18th in the morning for a could have hours. We will actually look at some biblical texts and learn together about how to engage imaginatively with them. It would be helpful to me to know how many people to expect (for the purposes of snacks!), so please email me to let me know you’re coming.Thanks for reading Noticing Delight! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

The fifth in a 5-part series for Advent/Christmas 2022.He is born among us and is one of us. The incarnation.God with us and with intent, with imagination and creativity. Bearer of hope, and peace, and joy, and love.And so, we can be religious about the incarnation. As God came into the world and loved the place and people to which He came, we can do the same.You can see the places you find yourself through God’s eyes. You can be incarnational about where you are. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

The fourth in a 5-part series for Advent/Christmas 2022.The final advent theme is Love. Love is so central.  It is at the core of who we are as human beings. We naturally love.  Think of parents, children, grandchildren, wives, husbands, true friends.And our faith takes us further with love. Over and over we are asked to give ourselves to love. To be religious about it.  To let our love reflect divine love.As we move toward Christmas, we glimpse once again God with is. Love incarnate. Love itself in human form, for God is love. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

The third in a 5-part series for Advent/Christmas 2022.What if joy was something you could simply choose?We tend to think joy is something that happens to us. It isn’t in our control. We would love to feel joyful, but that is really hard to do day in and day out. Is it the same as just being happy all the time? No, not really.So, what would it mean to be religious about joy?To say yes to joy, to make joy part of the pattern of our life. To give ourselves over to joy... This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

The second in a 5-part series for Advent 2022.Being religious about something is about devotion, it’s about commitment. It is about staying the course even when you don’t feel like it. We are compelled to stay with it. We’ve made it our religion, and ours is a religion of peace.War is rampant, but we claim peace.Jesus claimed “Blessed are the Peacemakers” and declared that they would be called the children of God. On Sunday, we share peace with one another. It is a sign of having reconciled relationships. Of a healing between us.Peace is far more than an end of war. It isn’t about tolerating each other. It is things being set right. How they truly ought to be. It is a massive concept in the scriptures. The Hebrew word Shalom is peace, healing, wholeness, salvation. And we are people of this shalom. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

The first in a 5-part series for Advent/Christmas 2022.Getting religious about hope is not about being unrealistic or having some pie-in-the sky, everything will always be totally fine attitude. Religiously hoping means a full on acknowledgment of life in all its mess, brokenness, and still we fend off cynicism. We lament, but we don’t despair. We don’t just “hope everything gets a bit better soon.” We go bigger than that. We hope for complete renewal. We hope for reconciliation. We hope for a new heaven and a new earth... This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

"From now on you will be catching people" -  Jesus says this to his followers and it does not sound positive at all. Catching people? So, the job of people who follow Jesus is to go and "catch" others? Trap them? Trick them into something? I'm going to just say NO to all of that, but also say that when Jesus said this, there was something far more going on (no surprise - it's Jesus!). This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Matt welcomes AJ Sherrill for a conversation around a book that has one of the most amazing sub-titles of all time! - Being With God: The Absurdity, Necessity, and Neurology of Contemplative Prayer. AJ is the Lead Pastor at St. Peter's Church in Mount Pleasant, South Carolina and is an adjunct professor at Fuller Theological Seminary, where he teaches popular courses on transformational preaching and the Enneagram. Visit is website at https://www.ajsherrill.org/ This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

The Audio version of Prairie Presbyterian Church's Be Still and Behold series: 10 Weeks Exploring God's Presence in the Hebrew Scriptures. Get an Overview of the series here.This is Part Ten - God With EveryoneFor the printed liturgy and the original video series, visit https://www.prairiechurch.ca/worship This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

The Audio version of Prairie Presbyterian Church's Be Still and Behold series: 10 Weeks Exploring God's Presence in the Hebrew Scriptures. Get an Overview of the series here.This is Part Nine - Running Away From God's PresenceFor the printed liturgy and the original video series, visit https://www.prairiechurch.ca/worship This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

The Audio version of Prairie Presbyterian Church's Be Still and Behold series: 10 Weeks Exploring God's Presence in the Hebrew Scriptures. Get an Overview of the series here.This is Part Eight - God NOT in the Earthquake, Fire, or StormFor the printed liturgy and the original video series, visit https://www.prairiechurch.ca/worship This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

The Audio version of Prairie Presbyterian Church's Be Still and Behold series: 10 Weeks Exploring God's Presence in the Hebrew Scriptures. Get an Overview of the series here.This is Part Seven - God in the Temple part 2For the printed liturgy and the original video series, visit https://www.prairiechurch.ca/worship This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

The Audio version of Prairie Presbyterian Church's Be Still and Behold series: 10 Weeks Exploring God's Presence in the Hebrew Scriptures. Get an Overview of the series here.This is part Six - God in the Temple part 1For the printed liturgy and the original video series, visit https://www.prairiechurch.ca/worship  This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

The Audio version of Prairie Presbyterian Church's Be Still and Behold series: 10 Weeks Exploring God's Presence in the Hebrew Scriptures. Get an Overview of the series here.This is part Five - God in the TentFor the printed liturgy and the original video series, visit https://www.prairiechurch.ca/worship  This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

The Audio version of Prairie Presbyterian Church's Be Still and Behold series: 10 Weeks Exploring God's Presence in the Hebrew Scriptures. Get an Overview of the series here.This is part Four - God on the MountainFor the printed liturgy and the original video series, visit https://www.prairiechurch.ca/worship  This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

The Audio version of Prairie Presbyterian Church's Be Still and Behold series: 10 Weeks Exploring God's Presence in the Hebrew Scriptures. Get an Overview of the series here.This is part Three - God in Pillars of Cloud and FireFor the printed liturgy and the original video series, visit https://www.prairiechurch.ca/worship  This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

The Audio version of Prairie Presbyterian Church's Be Still and Behold series: 10 Weeks Exploring God's Presence in the Hebrew Scriptures. Get an Overview of the series here.This is part One - God in a Dream and a Wrestling MatchFor the printed liturgy and the original video series, visit https://www.prairiechurch.ca/worship  This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

The Audio version of Prairie Presbyterian Church's Be Still and Behold series: 10 Weeks Exploring God's Presence in the Hebrew Scriptures. Get an Overview of the series here.This is part One - God in the Garden.For the printed liturgy and the original video series, visit https://www.prairiechurch.ca/worship  This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Matt Brough shares about a new series, Be Still and Behold: 10 Weeks Exploring God's Presence in the Hebrew Scriptures. Get an Overview of the series here. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Matt Brough welcomes Terence Lester to the podcast for a hopeful and inspiring conversation about justice. Terence is the founder of Love Beyond Walls, a nonprofit organization focused on poverty awareness and community mobilization and is the author of When We Stand: The Power of Seeking Justice Together. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

This episode features reflections and a conversation with Rev. Mary Fontaine. Executive director of Hummingbird Ministries, ordained minister in the Presbyterian Church in Canada, and Indigenous Leader, Mary brings such wisdom as she reflect on her own work, the need for healing and listening, the power of music, dance, and the arts, and the the important of advocacy for indigenous youth.  This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

As Jesus indwells the world so we too indwell the world. This might be an apt description of what is called "incarnational ministry." How might the incarnation be important for us as we reflect on being together in-person, and how might technology continue to play a vital role? (Maybe it always has!)Based on a message that Matt Brough gave at an outdoor in-person gathering.Referenced in this episode...Finding an alternative to “incarnational ministry” - The Presbyterian OutlookIncarnation: Theology in the Body - Reformed Journal  This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

We made it to episode 100!! Whoohoo!  And what better way to mark this milestone, and all the work that went into it, than with a conversation about resting. Matt Brough and Kate Rademacher talk about her latest book Reclaiming Rest: The Promise of Sabbath, Solitude, and Stillness in a Restless WorldThis interview is so wide-ranging covering topics like:why truly resting is so hardwhy Sabbath on a Sunday can be difficult and how a practice of Friday night through Sunday afternoon might be a better pattern for many people.The importance of community in resting.The role of benedictions and liturgy in sabbath keeping.The deep connections between social justice and the sabbath.Hope you will give this 100th episode a listen!! This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

A lively conversation between Matt Brough and Steph O'Brien about how to "Make a Move." Often we have trouble making decisions and then even more trouble acting on them. Steph's latest book deals directly with this. On the big things and the small things, Steph provides sage wisdom for taking steps, even when they might be a bit stumbling or winding, along the path of your life. This episode focussed in on the importance of actually moving, experimenting, and just trying things, in the midst of discernment.Often we might think we are supposed to listen for God's leading and then make a move. Steph and Matt both talk about how hearing from God, seeing where God might be leading is more usually done in the midst of the journey, so the key ingredient is to start!Check out Steph O'Brien's book Make a Move:How to Stop Wavering and Make Decisions in a Disorienting WorldAnd Matt Brough's book Let God Send: Crossing Boundaries and Serving in Christ's Name This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

In this Episode, Matt Brough and children's author, Laura Alary, have a conversation about the long season of "ordinary time" and how it can be understood as a time of growth. This interview is wide ranging, including how to talk to kids about the ascension of Jesus, and also how do adults contend with the bizarre nature of the Pentecost narrative. Laura reads from her latest book, Breathe: a Child's Guide to Ascension, Pentecost, and the Growing Time.  This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Has anyone else been having a hard time with joy? Maybe joy is something to fight for, something to learn to spot and well... enjoy. In this episode we discuss becoming a student of joy and talk about Disneyland, holding newborns, baptisms, the resurrection appearances of Jesus, and the unexpected delight of a fire hydrant in the middle of a forest. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Matt Brough and Jen Ostash-Gooch reflect on their experience walking through the practices for the fifth and final week of the "Liturgy for Life" resource. This week the focus is on the Others, especially those different from yourself. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Matt Brough and Jen Ostash-Gooch reflect on their experience walking through the practices for the fourth week of the "A Liturgy for Life" resource. This week the focus is on the Self. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Matt Brough and Jen Ostash-Gooch reflect on their experience walking through the practices for the third week of the "A Liturgy for Life" resource. This week the focus is on Neighbourhood and Nation. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Matt Brough and Jen Ostash-Gooch reflect on their experience walking through the practices for the second week of the "A Liturgy for Life" resource. This week the focus is on Family, Ancestors, and Descendants.  This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Matt Brough and Jen Ostash-Gooch reflect on their experience walking through the practices for the first week of the "A Liturgy for Life" resource. This week the focus is on creation. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

In this special episode of the podcast, Matt Brough and Jen Ostash-Gooch go over a new resource for Lent that they developed together and invite you to think through how you will mark lent, paying attention to your relationships with God, creation, your family, your neighbourhood, and yourself. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Rich Lewis shares with Matt Brough about his latest book, Sitting with God: A Journey to Your True Self Through Centering Prayer. They discuss why this kind of prayer or any contemplative practice is so life-changing and how this particular practice might be a key one during challenging times. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

This episode features a wide ranging conversation about the enneagram between Drew Moser and your host, Matt Brough. Drew covers some of the basics but also goes deep, especially in the areas of how our distinctive personalities effect our decision making. Drew speaks about his work as helping people navigate the big questions in life, such as Who am I? Why am I here? And Where am I going?Drew's latest book is The Enneagram of Discernment: The Way of Vocation, Wisdom, and PracticeMatt Brough also shares about his upcoming book Let God Send: Crossing Boundaries and Serving in Christ's Name. Visit letgodsend.com for more details. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Loneliness is an epidemic, and is effecting young people and people of all ages in massive proportions. This may have only been heightened during the pandemic. In this conversation with Jason Gaboury, we consider whether we might be invited to wait and meet God in the midst of our loneliness and uncover a depth of presence and friendship. We also discuss imaginative ways of reading scripture and why that is important, and also having spiritual practices for particular contexts of life, even in times of exhaustion, confusion, or struggle. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

In this conversation Matt Brough and Kate Rademacher talk about not always knowing or seeing, but still following, the spiritual path laid out by God. She shares her story of being raised Unitarian Universalist, being influenced by Buddhism, and being baptized as an adult in the Episcopalian Church. What does it mean to listen to “the still small voice?” Kate’s writing can be found at https://www.katerademacher.com/. Be sure to check out her books, Following the Red Bird: First Steps into a Life of Faith and Their Faces Shone: A Foster Parent’s Lessons on Loving and Letting Go. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

In this conversation, Matt Brough and Ed Cyzewski talk about some of the perils of technology on our spiritual life, from distraction to addiction. Are there ways to use technology that don't lead toward the more negative side? What do we need to understand about the psychology of apps and social media in order to reconnect with what is most important?Ed Cyzewski is the author of Reconnect: Spiritual Restoration from Digital Distraction, Flee, Be Silent, Pray, A Christian Survival Guide, and Coffeehouse Theology. He co-leads the Renew and Refine Retreat and works as a freelance writer who has contributed to numerous magazines and book projects. He blogs about writing and prayer at www.edcyzewski.com. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Andria Irwin is the online minister with Highlands United Church in North Vancouver. In this conversation with her we talk less about the "tools" of online ministry, and more about the Spirituality of what it means to do and be Church in an online space.  This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Matt Brough and J. Dana Trent have part 3 of their conversation on Ancient Wisdom in Chaotic Times, this time focussing on the season of Eastertide. Which Spiritual practices are most helpful right now and which ones might not be as much as we live with the realities of a Pandemic. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

This is a replay of the Facebook Live that Dana and Matt did on April 1st, 2020 about how in this time of emergency, crisis, and uncertainty, we have resources available to us embedded in the ancient wisdom of our faith. Together they explored: the 23rd Psalm, the Lord's Prayer, the difference between sabbatical and experiencing wilderness, and more. J. Dana Trent is a professor of World Religions and Critical Thinking at Wake Tech Community College in North Carolina. An ordained Baptist minister and former hospital chaplain, her work has appeared on Time.com, and in Religion News Service, Sojourners, Religion Dispatches, and The Christian Century. She is the author of Dessert First: Preparing for Death While Savoring Life, One Breath At a Time: A Skeptic’s Guide to Christian Meditation and For Sabbath’s Sake: Embracing Your Need for Rest. Matt Brough is a Presbyterian minister of a congregation in Winnipeg, Canada and also serves as the coordinator of the New Worshipping Communities Initiative of the Presbyterian Church in Canada. He hosts the Spirituality for Ordinary People podcast and is the author of Let God Be God: Give Control to the Only One Who Can Set You Free, Let God Be Present: Uncovering the Will, Courage, and Persistence to Truly Connect, and the Del Ryder series of fantasy adventure books. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

This is a replay of the Facebook Live that Dana and Matt did on March 25th, 2020 about how in this time of emergency, crisis, and uncertainty, we have resources available to us embedded in the ancient wisdom of our faith. Together they explored: the importance of experiencing both joy and grief, how we need to lean into sabbath and why this is hard for us, and what we need in order to serve and love others in a time of physical distancing.  J. Dana Trent is a professor of World Religions and Critical Thinking at Wake Tech Community College in North Carolina. An ordained Baptist minister and former hospital chaplain, her work has appeared on Time.com, and in Religion News Service, Sojourners, Religion Dispatches, and The Christian Century. She is the author of Dessert First: Preparing for Death While Savoring Life, One Breath At a Time: A Skeptic’s Guide to Christian Meditation and For Sabbath’s Sake: Embracing Your Need for Rest. Matt Brough is a Presbyterian minister of a congregation in Winnipeg, Canada and also serves as the coordinator of the New Worshipping Communities Initiative of the Presbyterian Church in Canada. He hosts the Spirituality for Ordinary People podcast and is the author of Let God Be God: Give Control to the Only One Who Can Set You Free, Let God Be Present: Uncovering the Will, Courage, and Persistence to Truly Connect, and the Del Ryder series of fantasy adventure books. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

We are living in very uncertain times as we continue to face the realities of the Corona Virus. We might be anxious and afraid. And we might have all kinds of voices or thoughts that tell us to "be strong" or to not feel certain ways. In response to this, I am sharing a short meditation that I wrote recently.Start with your feelingsAcknowledge how you feel and actually feel it.Don’t let voices creep in that tell you that you shouldn’t feel.“you shouldn’t be afraid”“you shouldn’t be anxious”“you shouldn’t be angry”“you should be crying”“you shouldn’t be over-reacting”“you shouldn’t be reacting at all”Stop all those words and pay attention to how you actually feel.Feel the place in your body that is reacting. The back of your throat maybetense shoulders perhapsPossibly the pit of your stomachDraw your attention to how you feel and where you feel it most.Now, know this deep truth:You are not aloneYou are not aloneYou are not aloneThere is one who loves you deeply and calls to you: “Come to me, you who are weary and burdened… and I will give you rest.”Focus on that callIt was Jesus who first spoke these words.Listen to them anew. Receive his friendship and companionshipAnd be still.Be still and know.Know that you are not God, but that there is a God who is with you and loves you dearly.“Be still and know that I am God.” Psalm 46:10 This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

This was such a fantastic conversation with Pastor Steph O'Brien about her book, Stay Curious, which is all about embracing curiosity, questions, and even doubts as a key to unlocking a more vibrant and dynamic relationship with God.A lot of us sometimes think that we aren't supposed to have big questions about fundamental ideas about God, Jesus or the Bible. Or we might believe that the life of faith is about overcoming and eliminating doubt to have "true faith." Steph really challenges these notions, encourages intentionality in spirituality, and at the same time upholds the importance of community, the Church, the Bible, and Jesus. While our conversation is really great, you should definitely check out everything Steph O'Brien does.  Among other things, she teaches at Bethel Seminary, is on the pastoral staff of a Church, and co-hosts an amazing podcast called "Lead Stories." Steph is a really gifted speaker and teacher, and is well worth following. Visit Steph's Website for more about her and what she does.A few books that were mentioned in this episode...Stay Curious: How Questions and Doubts Can Save Your Faith  by Steph O'BrienThe Myth of Certainty by Daniel TaylorBenefit of the Doubt: Breaking the Idol of Certainty by Greg Boyd This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

The Spirituality for Ordinary People Podcast returns with a reflection on rediscovering our identity. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Season 3 of Spirituality for Ordinary People is all about Prayer Walking. In this third episode, Matt Brough continues the conversation from episode 2 with Robin McGauley about Labyrinths. Check out the resources below the picture of the Labyrinth... Overhead view of the Labyrinth in Chartres Cathedrale Resources: Veriditas: https://www.veriditas.orgThe Expressive Arts program at fleming college: https://flemingcollege.ca/programs/expressive-artsRobin's Website - Amazing metalsmithing - check it out!Season 1, Episode 8 of Spirituality for Ordinary People - Creativity, Metalsmithing, and Labyrinths with Rev. Robin McGauley Follow Spirituality for Ordinary People on Instagram Subscribe: iTunes | Stitcher | TuneIn Radio | Google Play This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Season 3 of Spirituality for Ordinary People is all about Prayer Walking. In this second episode, Matt Brough, welcomes Robin McGauley back to the podcast to talk about walking the Labyrinth. This is such an amazing conversation. So amazing, that it has been broken up into 2 parts - so there will be another episode with the second half of the conversation! Check out the resources below the picture of the Labyrinth... Overhead view of the Labyrinth in Chartres Cathedrale Resources: Veriditas: https://www.veriditas.orgThe Expressive Arts program at fleming college: https://flemingcollege.ca/programs/expressive-artsRobin's Website - Amazing metalsmithing - check it out!Season 1, Episode 8 of Spirituality for Ordinary People - Creativity, Metalsmithing, and Labyrinths with Rev. Robin McGauley Follow Spirituality for Ordinary People on Instagram Subscribe: iTunes | Stitcher | TuneIn Radio | Google Play This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Season 3 of Spirituality for Ordinary People is all about Prayer Walking. In this opening episode, Matt Brough, goes over a few different kinds of prayer walks and invites listeners to consider making prayer walking a regular Spiritual Practice.He goes over two main types:1) Neighbourhood Prayer-Walking (Outward focus)This type of prayer walking intentionally focusses on a particular neighbourhood. Take time to walk around in a community and silently pray for the people who live, work, or go to school there.Pray for discernment - Seek the gift of seeing the community through God’s eyes and to discern what God may be up to in the neighbourhood. Pray for greater insight into how God is at work among the people, events, and places you observe.Pray for blessing - Observe situations and places that express both joy and brokenness in the community and silently give thanks and/or ask for healing, strength, or renewal.2. Personal Prayer-Walking (Inward focus)This type of prayer walking focusses on your own relationship with God and/or how God may be guiding you. The action of walking is a powerful metaphor for following Jesus. You are encouraged to pray for personal direction from God.Most of this type of prayer is a listening prayer. Begin by praying questions such as:God, where are you leading me?God, what step would you like me to take?As you repeat these kinds of questions, try to quiet your mind and heart to listen to what God might be saying.This type of prayer can be done anywhere, but it is often best to be outside in nature or pray using a Labyrinth.Follow Spirituality for Ordinary People on Instagram Subscribe: iTunes | Stitcher | TuneIn Radio | Google Play This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

In this episode of the Spirituality for Ordinary Podcast your host, Matt Brough, continues the conversation with J. Dana Trent, author of One Breath At A Time: A Skeptic’s Guide to Meditation. The first part of this conversation was in Episode 3 of Season 2. This wraps up the season on the Examen. For an overview of the Examen, you may want to go back to Episode 1 of Season 2 - The Examen in a Nutshell   Follow Spirituality for Ordinary People on Instagram Subscribe: iTunes | Stitcher | TuneIn Radio | Google Play This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

In this episode of the Spirituality for Ordinary Podcast your host, Matt Brough, begins with J. Dana Trent, author of One Breath At A Time: A Skeptic’s Guide to Meditation. The second half of their conversation will feature in the next episode. Most of this conversation goes over whether the Examen is helpful when you have days that are high stress or anxiety producing. For an overview of the Examen, you may want to go back to Episode 1 of Season 2 - The Examen in a NutshellVisit J. Dana Trent’s Website for more about her.  Follow Spirituality for Ordinary People on Instagram Subscribe: iTunes | Stitcher | TuneIn Radio | Google Play This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

 In this episode of the Spirituality for Ordinary Podcast your host, Matt Brough, has a conversation with Jen Ostash-Gooch about their individual experiences of the Examen. They open up a conversation about a number of topics: how the Examen allows awareness of what God might be doing in life.how the Examen helps us to not simply drift through life.how the Examen helps us to stay in the moment and focus on what you are doing.How our experience of community being changed because of the practice of the Examen? For an overview of the Examen, you may want to go back to Episode 1 of Season 2 - The Examen in a Nutshell    Follow Spirituality for Ordinary People on Instagram Subscribe: iTunes | Stitcher | TuneIn Radio | Google Play  This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

In this episode of the Spirituality for Ordinary Podcast your host, Matt Brough, goes over the five steps in practice of the Examen and shares about his own ups and downs in trying to stay focused for a 10 to 20 minute time of prayer. For an overview of the Examen, you may want to go back to Episode 1 of Season 2 - The Examen in a Nutshell Episode 2 covers... The temptation to just not do it or not try it. We can sometimes believe that any prayer practice (in this case The Examen) won't actually make any difference and so we rationalize not doing it. We are also "busy," and so cannot "find the time." How can we resist these tendencies and actually stop for 10 to 20 minutes for prayer that may actually have life-giving or life-transforming possibilities? Musch of this episode is about the difficulty with focus. Matt shares about how he is always racing ahead to the future in his prayer time and how the Examen is reminding him to stay in the day. Matt is someone who likes to make plans and set goals, and so there is a particular challenge in reviewing the day to not get sidetracked with looking too far into the future. Part of the Examen is about looking at the day ahead as well as the day just lived. "I’m finding it interesting that the Day ahead for me tends to be about getting things done, or my own interaction in a meeting or in leading something within the church, while the review of my day tends to be almost entirely about the blessing of interacting with people. Looking ahead is very focussed on me and what I’m going to do. Looking back is very focussed on others and how I was blessed by God through them." Some other quotes or thoughts from the Episode: "Something sacred is going on in this 10-20 minutes. This has a spill-over into the way we see our day. The time of prayer colours how we look at our day. The day is sacred as well as the prayer time. Both are a gift." "My particular challenge, and where I’m finding the Examen particularly helpful, is this reminder to come back to the day." " Something that hasn’t shown up on my highlight reel after doing the Examen 4 times this week: Watching TV, except for the times when I have been with family watching something that we are all enjoying. And anything that came from social media.  In fact, my computer and my phone, the two things that I spend the most time with throughout my day, don’t feature at all in my daily reviews. I think this is because of the initial prayer - asking to see as God sees." "Because my work varies from day to day, the praying for the day ahead part of the Examen helps me identify the priorities for that day. What is most important? I’m finding that I am better doing the Examen in the morning, and after I am done I can immediately write down 3 or 4 things that are the top things that must get done that day." If you have questions about the Examen, or want to share your experience with this practice, feel free to be in touch by email matt at mattbrough.com or connect through Instagram... Follow Spirituality for Ordinary People on Instagram Subscribe: iTunes | Stitcher | TuneIn Radio | Google Play This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

This is the first episode of Season 2 of the Spirituality for Ordinary People Podcast and we are about to shift the focus in a big way. For this season, we are focusing completely on a single spiritual practice - The Examen. Below is a modified version of the Examen, a prayer practice developed by Ignatius of Loyola (1491-1556). This way of going through the Examen is outlined in the book A Simple Life-Changing Prayer: Discovering the Power of St. Ignatius Loyola's Examen by Jim Manney. The text below is from chapter 1 “the examen in a nutshell” The examen is a method of reviewing your day in the presence of God. It's actually an attitude more than a method, a time set aside for thankful reflection on where God is in your everyday life. It has five steps, which most people take more or less in order, and it usually takes 15 to 20 minutes per day. Here it is in a nutshell: Ask God for light. I want to look at my day with God's eyes, not merely my own.Give thanks. The day I have just lived is a gift from God. Be grateful for it.Review the day. I carefully look back on the day just completed, being guided by the Holy Spirit.Face your shortcomings. I face up to what is wrong in my life and in me.Look toward the day to come. I ask where I need God in the day to come If you have questions about the Examen, or want to share your exprience with this practice, feel free to be in touch by email matt at mattbrough.com or connect through Instagram... Follow Spirituality for Ordinary People on Instagram Subscribe: iTunes | Stitcher | TuneIn Radio | Google Play This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

 "Doubt is only a problem if certainty is the expectation."—Austin Fischer Episode 70 of Spirituality for Ordinary People features an interview with Austin Fischer. Austin is the Teaching Pastor at Vista Community Church. His latest book is called Faith in the Shadows: Finding Christ in the Midst of Doubt Key Learnings Everyone has doubts. "The problem of evil" is a cold, rational way to talk about our doubts around the pain and suffering in the world. When we face real suffering it brings a crisis, because we have trouble squaring a God of infinite goodness with the amount of evil in the world. Moving away from faith often happens because we hear nothing from God for very long periods of time. This may be more a perceived "hearing nothing" than what God is really up to. Modern Science can still pose problems for Christians. Augustine is a great source to go to for how we understand the relationship between faith and science. He noted that when science and scripture appear to be in conflict, then the best thing is to go back to scripture and ask whether a literal reading is required. Fundamentalism or rigid biblical literalism may in fact approach scripture in a more "scientific" way. It began a few hundred years after the Reformation and its roots may lie in an attempt to apply the scientific method and a search for accuracy to interpreting Scripture. "The gravest threat to modern Christianity is neither fundamentalism nor science, but stuff!" Love is the ultimate remedy for doubt. Things to Think About What are your own doubts? What crisis is being caused for you? What might you need to re-examine? Will you "just think about your crisis of faith" or will you give away more of your stuff, serve the poor and needy? Spiritual Practices Discussed in this Episode Giving Fixed prayer times throughout the day "Praying with your eyes open" Sabbath Links and Resources: Austin Fischer's WebsiteFaith in the Shadows: Finding Christ in the Midst of DoubtUnbelievable - The Debate mentioned by Austin in the Interview Join others in contributing financially to help pay for hosting and equipment costs.  Follow Spirituality for Ordinary People on Instagram Subscribe: iTunes | Stitcher | TuneIn Radio | Google Play  This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

"Meditation is intentional about holding the space for listening for God's still small voice."—J. Dana Trent Episode 69 of Spirituality for Ordinary People features another interview with J. Dana Trent.  Dana was on episode 67 speaking about the practice of Sabbath, and this time she is back sharing about Christian Meditation. She is a graduate of Duke Divinity School and professor of World Religions and Critical Thinking at Wake Tech Community College. An ordained Baptist minister and former hospital chaplain, her work has appeared on Time.com, and in Religion News Service, Sojourners, Religion Dispatches, and The Christian Century. Key Learnings The word "meditation" is in scripture. It means "to ponder," "to reflect." Prayer is about talking to God, Meditation is about listening. It is about holding space to listen for the still, small voice of God. Meditation has physiological benefits, including the body's ability to calm itself. Things to Think About What can you do to create space to breathe and listen for God? Spiritual Practices Discussed in this Episode Breath Meditation Loving Kindness Meditation Links and Resources: J. Dana Trent's WebsiteFor Sabbath's Sake by J. Dana TrentOne Breath At A Time: A Skeptic's Guide to Meditation by J. Dana TrentJoin others in contributing financially to help pay for hosting and equipment costs. Follow Spirituality for Ordinary People on InstagramSubscribe: iTunes | Stitcher | TuneIn Radio | Google Play This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

"I knew all this stuff about God but I was lacking in terms of how much I knew God in my personhood, in my lived experience..."—Phileena Heuertz Episode 68 of Spirituality for Ordinary People features an interview with Phileena Heuertz.  Phileena has spent her life in social justice work among the world’s poor. A member of the New Friar movement, for nearly 20 years she and her husband Chris served with Word Made Flesh in more than 70 countries building community among victims of human trafficking, survivors of HIV and AIDS, abandoned children and child soldiers and war brides. Author, spiritual director, yoga instructor, public speaker and retreat guide, Phileena is passionate about spirituality and making the world a better place. Key Learnings There is a deep connection between Contemplative Spirituality and being socially engaged. Sometimes you have to let your dog out, even when considering the deepest of issues. As one becomes more and more connected to God it implies a greater connection to others. We have inherited an unhealthy expectation of a separation between contemplation and action. We have intellectualized the faith so much and divorced our intellectual beliefs from what difference it makes in our life and in the world around us. Jesus truly lived his spirituality. It wasn't primarily about intellectual beliefs. A lot of us approach happiness externally (e.g. "if I could just get..."). Joy comes when we develop a capacity to live into our best selves in the midst of the real circumstances of life. Things to Think About What can you do in your life to bring together your personal relationship with Jesus and your active engagement in the world? How might contemplative Spiritual practices provide you with tools to bring these together? Do you think you would be willing to try engaging more in contemplative practices? Spiritual Practices Discussed in this Episode Lectio Divina, Breath Prayer, Centering Prayer, Labyrinth, Yoga Links and Resources: Phileena Heuertz's websiteMindful Silence: The Heart of Christian Contemplation by Phileena HeuertzPilgrimage of a Soul: Contemplative Spirituality for the Active Life by Phileena HeuertzGravity Center Join others in contributing financially to help pay for hosting and equipment costs.  Follow Spirituality for Ordinary People on Instagram This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

"It's that one day a week that shapes the remaining six..."—J. Dana Trent Episode 67 of Spirituality for Ordinary People features an interview with J. Dana Trent.  J. Dana Trent is a graduate of Duke Divinity School and professor of World Religions and Critical Thinking at Wake Tech Community College. An ordained Baptist minister and former hospital chaplain, her work has appeared on Time.com, and in Religion News Service, Sojourners, Religion Dispatches, and The Christian Century. Key Learnings Sabbath is not ordinary time. Sabbath is about stepping out of paying the bills, doing errands, shopping, etc. and stepping into meaning-making, being closer to God, connecting to community. Sabbath is a privilege. It is no longer a right in American/Canadian culture  God takes time away from creating to be in awe of the creation. When we take time to be in awe of creation a few things happen: we rest, we become more worshipful, we connect with community. There is a tradition of the visit of the Sabbath Queen visiting your house when you keep sabbath well. Could this be a powerful image of royalty visiting your house. What would that be like? "The community that rests together is the community that resists together."—Barbara Brown Taylor The three barriers in the way of Sabbath keeping are: the ego, not being humble, and not trusting. Children are great at Sabbath keeping! Sabbath has a way of revealing what your real life is. Sabbath can be a time for taking stock, for introspection, for asking questions about your life. Things to Think About How can the Sabbath be the priority that you work towards? And how can you allow the Sabbath day to shape the other six days? How can you better prepare for Sabbath or better keep the boundaries of Sabbath? In what way can you start small to practice Sabbath? (e.g. an afternoon, an hour, a meal with friends, etc.) If you are a clergy person how can you model Sabbath for your congregation? Spiritual Practices Discussed in this Episode Sabbath (Obviously!) Links and Resources: J. Dana Trent's WebsiteFor Sabbath's Sake by J. Dana TrentOne Breath at a Time: A Skeptics Guide to Christian Meditation by J. Dana TrentSabbath: Finding Rest, Renewal, and Delight in Our Busy Lives by Wayne Muller (outline of a Sabbath Day in the back of the book)Kate Rademacher's website (author of Following the Red Bird) Join others in contributing financially to help pay for hosting and equipment costs.  Follow Spirituality for Ordinary People on Instagram Subscribe: iTunes | Stitcher | TuneIn Radio | Google Play This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

"Beauty is a form of truth that God uses to display His glory. Imagination allows us to tap into that again - to see God through beauty."—Manuel LuzEpisode 66 of Spirituality for Ordinary People features an interview with Manuel Luz. An aerospace engineer by day jazz/pop musician by night, Manuel Luz was called to be a worship pastor 18 years ago. He continues playing gigs, has combined engineering and music in surprising ways (inventing a new musical instrument), and serves at Oak Hills Church in Folsom, California.Key LearningsThe importance of being yourself (being authentic) in the context of worship, and how this must be modeled by worship leadership.Beauty is a form of truth that must not be discounted. Imagination (which is part of the intellect) is a primary way in to appreciate, understand, and recognize the truth of God.Worshipping in the pronouns - pay attention to what are the operative pronouns in the songs being sung in worship. We need a balance of songs where we sing to God ("You"), about God ("He"), and about our response to God ("I"/"We").We have a tendency to lean into the spiritual disciplines that we do really well and we don't venture out.Things to Think AboutWhat would it look like for you to be honestly yourself before God and in your Church?What artistic or imaginative gift might you have that you could offer for the benefit of your worshipping community?Spiritual Practices Discussed in this EpisodeJournalling/BloggingReading"Putting on Different Eyes" - entering into the moment wherever I am and imagining God in it. Paying attention to creation, paying close attention.Playing music, practicing as a form of worship.Links and Resources:Maneul Luz's WebsiteWalkabout Drum7 habits of the artist-friendly church81 Things You Can Do to be a more Artist Friendly ChurchAstral mystery endures in Nova Scotia church Join others in contributing financially to help pay for hosting and equipment costs.  Follow Spirituality for Ordinary People on Instagram Subscribe: iTunes | Stitcher | TuneIn Radio | Google Play This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Matt Brough explains why there won't be any new episodes of Spirituality for Ordinary People coming out in November. He needs a bit of a buffer time as he adjusts to his new role working as the Program Coordinator for the New Worshipping Communities Initiative (Cyclical PCC) for his denomination. The role is half-time, and he will be staying on as pastor of Prairie Presbyterian Church on a half-time basis as well. Listen in as he explains the approach to starting new Churches and how it is a deeply spiritual process focussed on discerning what the Holy Spirit is up to. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

In Episode 65 of the Spirituality for Ordinary Podcast we revisit two old interviews with children's authors S.D. Smith and Laura Alary who speak about the importance of imagination, ritual, story, and how we need to inspire hope. Matt Brough also shares a bit about his own fiction writing for children, and reads from Laura Alary's new children's Bible, titled Read, Wonder, Listen.LinksMatt Brough's Del Ryder Fantasy Adventure SeriesS.D. Smith and his Green Ember SeriesRead, Wonder, Listen by Laura Alara  This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

"Habits can be a tool, a means to an end, or they can become a distraction if we're not careful because they're not the point—God is the point—they're only there to help us pursue God."—Darryl DashEpisode 64 of Spirituality for Ordinary People features an interview with Darryl Dash. Darryl is a pastor and church planter in Toronto with over 25 years of ministry experience, and author of How to Grow: Applying the Gospel to All of Life. He serves as pastor of Liberty Grace Church and also helps equip church planters with FEB Central. Together with his wife, Charlene, he founded Gospel for Life, an online resource designed to help people grow.Key LearningsThe gospel needs to be central to our daily living. "Self-help Christianity" (i.e. "just try harder) is the opposite of living with the gospel at the center of life.It is possible that half of our life runs on "auto-pilot."We will do better at connecting with God if we can develop habitual routines - things that we don't need to think about or figure out in the moment.Darryl talks about 3 core practices to lead to deeper connection with God:Reading or listening to ScripturePrayerEngage in Worship and Community in a ChurchLook for the times in your lives when you have effectively built habits in order to know what you need to have in place to develop habits in the areas or prayer, reading scripture, and participation in Church.In order to develop a habit, make your daily goal so ridiculously small that you are 85% sure you will do it. See B. J. Fogg's website, Tiny Habits, or Mini Habits by Stephen Guise. Things to Think AboutWhat would it look like for you to pray honestly and throughout your day?How might God be calling you to share more deeply within your Church community?What would a helpful habit be for you to connect more with God? Spiritual Practices Discussed in this EpisodeReading or listening to ScripturePrayerEngage in Worship and Community in a ChurchHaving a regular morning routineHaving a Rule of Life Links and Resources:Darryl Dash's websiteHow to Grow by Darryl DashGospel for Life Join others in contributing financially to help pay for hosting and equipment costs.  Follow Spirituality for Ordinary People on Instagram Subscribe: iTunes | Stitcher | TuneIn Radio | Google Play This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

"It's not depth, it's not breadth, it's not knowledge... it's can you be consistent in your time spent with Jesus?"—Grant VissersEpisode 63 of Spirituality for Ordinary People features an interview with Grant Vissers. Grant is a pastor at St. Paul's Leaksdale Church, a writer, blogger, and host of the Young Church Leaders Podcast.Key LearningsWhen trying to figure out a calling, a vocation, or a next step, listen to the people around you, but make sure that the ones you are listening to have earned the right to speak into your life."Competency will only take you as far as character will allow." — Carey NeiuwhofBeing called into community is a spiritual practice!There is no one who has the perfect/right spiritual guidebook or practice.Physical health impacts emotional health and each impact spiritual healthThings to Think AboutWhat is the place of desire and/or fear in discerning calling, vocation, or taking a next step?What habits are you cultivating that will allow you to run the race well into the future?Spiritual Practices Discussed in this EpisodeCommunity and accountability to figure out what practices will lead to consistencyPhysical Exercise as a core practiceReading through individual books of the Bible, reading the PsalmsJournaling / writingPraying through listening to or playing musicLinks and Resources:Young Church Leaders Podcast Join others in contributing financially to help pay for hosting and equipment costs.  Follow Spirituality for Ordinary People on Instagram Subscribe: iTunes | Stitcher | TuneIn Radio | Google Play This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

"There is a part of discipleship that always leaves us in motion, even if we've lived in the same place our entire lives"—Michelle Van LoonEpisode 62 of Spirituality for Ordinary People features an interview with Michelle Van Loon. Since coming to faith in Christ at the tail end of the Jesus Movement, Michelle’s Jewish heritage, spiritual hunger, and storyteller's sensibilities have shaped her faith journey and informed her writing. She is the author of five books and a regular contributor to Christianity Today's women's blog, In Touch magazine, and is the co-founder of www.ThePerennialGen.com, a website for midlife women and men.Key LearningsThe vocational questions of early adulthood change as we move into the second half of life, moving more toward questions of character."A pilgrim is formed by the question 'do I trust God?'"Every time there is an exile in Scripture it is meant to transform us. "Exile is never the destination, pilgrimage is.""Moral pilgrimage" is the exterior way that we are living out our obedience to God, and it IS a journey.We find ways to talk about ambition and comfort that sound "biblically acceptable."Things to Think AboutWhat are the key questions you are dealing with at this time in your life?How might you be wandering? What is the possibility for transformation at this time?There is a map for life, but the map is like a blank page that we discover by taking steps.Spiritual Practices Discussed in this EpisodeDaily Bible Reading using the St. James Daily DevotionalWriting as prayer and worshipIntentional conversation with othersLinks and Resources:Michelle Van Loon's websitewww.ThePerennialGen.com - A Space for Christian women and men in the second half of lifeBorn to Wander: Recovering the Value of Our Pilgrim Identity by Michelle Van Loon Join others in contributing financially to help pay for hosting and equipment costs.  Follow Spirituality for Ordinary People on Instagram Subscribe: iTunes | Stitcher | TuneIn Radio | Google Play This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

"The Celtic Christian tradition is not what I would call 'I need a hug theology.' It's deeply grounded in the revelation of Father, Son, and Spirit..."—Ross LockhartEpisode 61 of Spirituality for Ordinary People features an interview with Dr. Ross Lockhart. Ross is Associate Professor and Director of the Centre for Missional Leadership at St. Andrew’s Hall.  Ross serves as the Presbyterian Director of Denominational Formation at Vancouver School of Theology as well as an Adjunct Professor of Homiletics at St. Mark’s College, UBC. He also teaches regularly at Regent College.Key LearningsLooking at how faithful witness happened in a pre-Christian culture might help us understand how to witness today in a post-Christian culture.Things to Think AboutLockhart quotes Maggie Dawn stating, "The hardest pilgrimage is sitting still and going inside yourself." How do you respond?How might we be courageous in our proclamation understanding that sometimes "no" might be the answer?Spiritual Practices Discussed in this EpisodePilgrimage as Adult Catechesis/learning opportunityLinks and Resources:Beyond Snakes and Shamrocks: St. Patrick’s Missional Leadership Lessons for Today by Ross LockhartRoss Lockhart’s official bio - http://vst.edu/people/rev-dr-ross-lockhartVancouver School of Theology - http://vst.edu/St. Andrew’s Hall - http://standrews.edu/The Accidental Pilgrim by Maggie Dawn Join others in contributing financially to help pay for hosting and equipment costs.  Follow Spirituality for Ordinary People on Instagram Subscribe: iTunes | Stitcher | TuneIn Radio | Google Play This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

"Only about 13% of Christians 'speak God' about once a week... that's shocking! Because we say we love God, we say we love faith, but we don't talk about faith..."—Jonathan MerrittEpisode 60 of Spirituality for Ordinary People features an interview with Jonathan Merritt. Jonathan Merritt is an award-winning writer on religion, culture, and politics. He currently serves as a contributing writer for The Atlantic and contributing editor for The Week.  Jonathan has published more than 3500 articles in respected outlets such as The New York Times, USA Today, Buzzfeed, The Washington Post and Christianity Today. As a respected voice, he regularly contributes commentary to television, print, and radio news outlets and has been interviewed by ABC World News, NPR, CNN, PBS, MSNBC, Fox News, and CBS’ “60 Minutes.”Jonathan's latest book is Learning to Speak God From Scratch: Why Sacred Words Are Vanishing--and How We Can Revive Them. In it, he argues that Spiritual or Religious Language is fading from use. He went to the field of linguistics and studied "come-back languages" - languages that had faded from use and had been recovered (e.g. Yiddish, Celtic). He argues for a re-imagining of spiritual words in order to revive sacred speech.The book is really in two parts. The first is the argument about language fading and the need for imaginative recovery. The second is a series of essays focussed on individual words that provide a model for re-imagining around that word.This interview is also in two parts, where we talk about the overall argument of the book, but also spend time exploring a few of the words that Jonathan includes in his book.Key LearningsReligious and spiritual language is fading from use in general society, and this is a major loss. We are losing the ability to express the deep realities of our lives.Only 13% of practicing Christians say they have spiritual conversations on a regular basis.God loves language. Of the ten commandments, two of them are about the use of words. As we look at Scripture, words and language are central.The "word" in John 1 (logos in Greek) is dynamic rather than static. An early translation of John 1, uses "conversation" rather than "word."Languages make a come back not through a simple "re-use" but through reimagining their meaning in their re-use.Finding the "original meaning" of words (particularly from ancient languages) is near impossible. The meaning of words is often fluid.Things to Think AboutWhat spiritual words do you avoid using? (perhaps sin, judgment, hell, mystery, brokenness?) Reflect on why you avoid particular words. How might you re-imagine one of these words for you to be able to use it more regularly?What holds you back from regularly talking about God, or having spiritual conversations?Links and Resources:Jonathan Merritt's websiteLearning to Speak God From Scratch: Why Sacred Words Are Vanishing--and How We Can Revive Them. Join others in contributing financially to help pay for hosting and equipment costs.  Follow Spirituality for Ordinary People on Instagram Subscribe: iTunes | Stitcher | TuneIn Radio | Google Play This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

"Fearing one another, hating one another, not welcoming one another... We have to somehow overcome and see what Christ has done when Jesus walked on earth. He didn't build walls, he broke them down..."—Grace Ji-Sun KimEpisode 59 of Spirituality for Ordinary People features an interview with Dr. Grace Ji-Sun Kim. Grace is Associate Professor of Theology at Earlham School of Religion and is the author of over 15 books. Her latest include...  Healing Our Broken Humanity, co-written with Graham Hill, The Homebrewed Christianity Guide to the Holy Spirit.Key LearningsCommunity, society, family is so important when looking at our brokenness, sin, and need for repentance and change.The initial steps toward healing a broken humanity are for local communities of faith, to begin with being convicted of, acknowledging, and lamenting our own sin and our participation in sin.There are four stages to repentance (it is a process!): conviction, contrition, commitment, and change.Things to Think AboutWhat community are you a part of? How can your community better reflect the new humanity in Christ?Spiritual Practices Discussed in this EpisodeCommunal lament.Repentance as a practiceLinks and Resources:Grace's Website and booksEarlham School of TheologyThe Global Church Project (Graham Hill) Join others in contributing financially to help pay for hosting and equipment costs.  Follow Spirituality for Ordinary People on Instagram Subscribe: iTunes | Stitcher | TuneIn Radio | Google Play This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Click here and Enter for a chance to win a copy of Amos Smith's latest book, Be Still and Listen"Augustine said that people try to fill that God-shaped hole in the brothel, in the bar, with their spouse, but nothing really satisfies, gives a deep sense of fulfillment and purpose, like a direct experience of God's presence.  "—Amos SmithEpisode 58 of Spirituality for Ordinary People features an interview Amos Smith. Amos writes at his website about Recovering Christianity's Mystic Roots and is the author of Healing The Divide: Recovering Christianity’s Mystic Roots and BE STILL AND LISTEN: Experience the Presence of God in Your Life.Key LearningsHaving 40 minutes a day for silence and centering prayer, though counter-cultural, ought not be unusual for Christians. Indeed, it is not unusual for the Eastern Church.Mystics can sometimes be branded as either "deranged" or dangerous to the establishment.Time away for silence is vital for a deepening relationship with God in Christ.Spending regular and extended time with God provides the possibility for personal transformation and this has the potential to have a major impact on the lives of the people around you.Things to Think AboutWould you consider "jumping into the deep end" and doing a 10-day silent retreat?Spiritual Practices Discussed in this EpisodeCentering Prayer - See the episode with Rich Lewis for a more detailed description of Centering PrayerSilent RetreatsLinks and Resources:Amos Smith's WebsiteHealing The Divide: Recovering Christianity’s Mystic RootsBE STILL AND LISTEN: Experience the Presence of God in Your Life Join others in contributing financially to help pay for hosting and equipment costs.  Follow Spirituality for Ordinary People on Instagram Subscribe: iTunes | Stitcher | TuneIn Radio | Google Play This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

"It was amazing to me that in this hard part of scriputre, there were things we could immediately apply."—Rachel SchmoyerEpisode 57 of Spirituality for Ordinary People features Rachel Schmoyer. Rachel has a website called "Read the Hard Parts" which focusses on looking at some of the most difficult passages in Scripture and looks to discover what truth we might glean.Rather than the usual interview format, Rachel and I do an essentially unplanned Bible Study on Malachi 1:1-5:1 The oracle of the word of the Lord to Israel through Malachi.2 “I have loved you,” says the Lord. But you say, “How have You loved us?” “Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?” declares the Lord. “Yet I have loved Jacob; 3 but I have hated Esau, and I have made his mountains a desolation and appointed his inheritance for the jackals of the wilderness.” 4 Though Edom says, “We have been beaten down, but we will return and build up the ruins”; thus says the Lord of hosts, “They may build, but I will tear down; and men will call them the wicked territory, and the people toward whom the Lord is indignant forever.” 5 Your eyes will see this and you will say, “The Lord be magnified beyond the border of Israel!”Key LearningsSome amazing things come from reading, thinking about, and discussing difficult passages of scripture, especially when we keep an open mind about various ways of looking at a text.Things to Think AboutWho might you read and discuss the Bible with?Spiritual Practices Discussed in this EpisodeReading hard parts of the BibleLinks and Resources:Read the Hard Parts by Rachel SchmoyerRachel's Bible Reading ChartThe Finishing Touches: Preparing for Christmas with the Book of Malachi: An Eight Day DevotionalLet's Eat! Giving Thanks with Jesus at Mealtimes: A 5 Day Devotional  Join others in contributing financially to help pay for hosting and equipment costs.  Follow Spirituality for Ordinary People on Instagram Subscribe: iTunes | Stitcher | TuneIn Radio | Google Play This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

"When I look beyond my own circumstances and catch these other glimmers of how God is moving and acting in the world and in other peoples' lives, then I realize He is here with me..."—Alicia BrummelerEpisode 56 of Spirituality for Ordinary People features an interview with Alicia Brummeler. In it, we focus on her book, Everywhere God: Exploring the Ordinary Places. We discuss encountering God in when spiritually adrift, having or not having tangible experiences of God, encountering God in rituals, encountering God in literature.Key LearningsHaving friends who sit with, pray with, or are present with you are so important.Universalizing spiritual experience, particularly for others, in times of dryness, is not helpful.Things to Think AboutDo we trust that God is, in fact, at work even when we don't seem to experience God?Spiritual Practices Discussed in this EpisodeJournalingReading through the PsalmsBeing OutsideEating together with familyReadingLinks and Resources:Alicia Brummeler's websiteEverywhere God: Exploring the Ordinary Places Join others in contributing financially to help pay for hosting and equipment costs.  Follow Spirituality for Ordinary People on Instagram Subscribe: iTunes | Stitcher | TuneIn Radio | Google Play This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

"There's something about naming God's goodness in a thing that softens your heart toward it."—John van Sloten.Episode 55 of Spirituality for Ordinary People features an interview with John van Sloten. In it, we focus on three areas: 1) God's presence in popular culture 2) Our jobs as parables for understanding GodThe interview is a deep dive into understanding the revelation of God. How is God speaking / or revealing himself.Key LearningsThere is always an opportunity to learn about or know God.We are made in the image of a God who works, therefore our jobs are imaging of God.Things to Think AboutReflect on your work. How is your job a parable for understanding God?Spiritual Practices Discussed in this EpisodeThis whole episode is about seeing God everywhere!Links and Resources:John van Sloten's Website - includes the sermons referenced in the interviewThe Day Metallica Came to Church: Searching for the Everywhere God in EverythingEvery Job a Parable: What Walmart Greeters, Nurses, and Astronauts Tell Us about God Join others in contributing financially to help pay for hosting and equipment costs.  Follow Spirituality for Ordinary People on Instagram Subscribe: iTunes | Stitcher | TuneIn Radio | Google Play This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

"God isn't just some outside force looking at me or some infinite force that created the universe but God is actually in me...and I can take these inner nudges and actions into my daily life."—Rich LewisHow can you actually get closer to God in such a way that you are really experiencing God's presence on a regular basis?Episode 54 of Spirituality for Ordinary People features an interview Rich Lewis. In it, we focus very specifically on the practice of centering prayer. We go over what it is, how it works, and the four steps you can follow to try centering prayer.Key LearningsCentering prayer is a tool or practice that assists you with entering into contemplative prayer. Contemplative prayer is purely sitting with God with no agenda - simply being in God's presence.If you are new to the practice of centering prayer, it is best to try and do it every day for a month before deciding whether it is for you. (This is likely true of any new spiritual practice).Trusting that if you hear something from God it will return to you. It is better to let the thought go in your time of centering prayer.Things to Think AboutIf you were to try Centering Prayer, at what time of the day and where would you plan to try the practice?Can you try it, even if it is just 1 to 5 minutes, twice a day.Spiritual Practices Discussed in this Episode4 Steps of Centering PrayerLinks and Resources:Silence Teaches Join others in contributing financially to help pay for hosting and equipment costs.  Follow Spirituality for Ordinary People on Instagram Subscribe: iTunes | Stitcher | TuneIn Radio | Google Play This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

"Silence is radical...Getting away from technology, getting away from everything, is radical."—Paul AngoneTwenty-somethings and thirty-somethings continue to long for something more or have a sense that life or the world is not as it should be. How can we do better self-examination, especially when failure, disappointment, tragedy, or struggle is close?Episode 53 of Spirituality for Ordinary People features an interview with Paul Angone, author of 101 Secrets For Your Twenties and 101 Questions You Need to Ask in Your Twenties. Paul helps people in their twenties and thirties grapple with life in ways that are practical, helpful, and deeply spiritual.Key LearningsKnowing your soul values is so important. One must figure out how they interact with God and with the truth of Scripture. It is also important to understand the difference between your strengths and the values that you hold in your heart.We absolutely need time away, particularly time away from technology, whether it is physically going on a hike or retreat, or whether it is keeping our phones in our pockets in line at the grocery store and allowing a "chance" encounter to happen or just experiencing a few moments of quiet in the midst of everyday life.Things to Think AboutWhat are the 5 values that are guiding your life on a daily basis?Are you open to the not so random encounters that God brings into your life?When are you "getting away" and allowing God to speak into your life?Spiritual Practices Discussed in this EpisodePaul discusses getting away for times of stillness and also talks about bringing a sense of stillness into everyday life. He also speaks about the authenticity found in the Psalms.Links and Resources:Paul Angone's websiteAll Groan Up: Your Guide Through 'What Now?'101 Questions You Need to Ask in Your Twenties: (And Let's Be Honest, Your Thirties Too)101 Secrets For Your Twenties Join others in contributing financially to help pay for hosting and equipment costs.  Follow Spirituality for Ordinary People on Instagram Subscribe: iTunes | Stitcher | TuneIn Radio | Google Play This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

"You don't have to have an 'S' on your chest if you have a savior in your heart."—Dan StanfordNorth American culture is saturated with the superhero motif. Why is that, and what hopes and needs is the pop culture superhero tapping into? Why do we flock to superhero stories, and what does it mean to embrace ordinary-ness as a better way to life?Episode 52 of Spirituality for Ordinary people features an interview with Dan Stanford, author, and pastor of The Well Church in Kenosha, WI. Dan's latest book is Losing the Cape: The Power of Ordinary in a World of SuperheroesThe discussion in this episode is wide-ranging. Dan doesn't advocate for simply a safe life, claiming we are made for adventure. He believes that God calls ordinary people to serve others in big and small ways. We aren't waiting for a super-hero to save the day, nor are we superheroes with the burden of saving others.Key LearningsThe people who are willing to do the little things that make the greatest difference over a period of time.God's got people all over the planet, so begin by making a difference where you are trusting that God has placed you where you are and placed others where they are. Comparison to others can be crippling. We must realize that we are stewards of what God has given us, so being where you are and with the resources you have.Things to Think AboutWhat are some of the ordinary ways of serving others that you might be called to?Spiritual Practices Discussed in this EpisodeDan journals on a regular basis, usually starting with Scripture and spending time outside near Lake Michigan.Their family usually asks a "strategic question" (e.g. what was the best thing that happened today?) for discussion over dinner and they spend time helping each other see God in their every day lives. He also actively looks for opportunities in everyday life to have conversations with his kids about God presence and activity.Dan also spoke about the freedom to experiment with different ways of approaching his devotional life.Links and Resources:Dan Stanford's WebsiteLosing the Cape: The Power of Ordinary in a World of SuperheroesThe Well Church Join others in contributing financially to help pay for hosting and equipment costs.  Follow Spirituality for Ordinary People on Instagram Subscribe: iTunes | Stitcher | TuneIn Radio | Google Play This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

 "Good questions can change the trajectory of peoples' futures."—J.R. BriggsPeople are asking deep and difficult questions in their lives and there is an inclination in our culture to fixate on easy or quick-fix answers. What does it look like to sit with questions, ask better questions, and how can a focus on questions help us in our walk with Christ?Episode 51 of Spirituality for Ordinary people features an interview with J.R. Briggs, author, pastor, and founder of Kairos Partnerships. J.R. brings thoughtful reflection, study, wisdom, and encouragement in the area of question asking.Key LearningWe often seek guidance and direction from God just wanting "the answer." But God's invitation to us is full of delight, wonder, and the unknown.Curiosity and wonder can be central to journeying with Jesus. We engage in wonder with a mindset of questions rather than only wanting answers.We study the parables of Jesus, the miracles of Jesus, but rarely do we study Jesus' questions. The gospels record Jesus as asking 325 questions. People asked him 183 questions and he only answered 5-8 of them directly.Things to Think AboutWhat big question are you living with right now?What question is God asking you right now?Spiritual Practices Discussed in this EpisodeJ.R. uses the Moravian Daily Text  followed by a simple prayer. He journals every day and records five things he is grateful for. He focuses on simple things, giving examples like warmer weather, the taste of the coffee, etc. He also practices Sabbath and finds it helps to guardrail against burnout, reminding him that God doesn't need him.Links and Resources:Kairos PartnershipsJ.R. Briggs' BooksSupport the Why Ask Questions Book on Kickstarter and get a copy of the book! (Until May 16, 2018)Join others in contributing financially to help pay for hosting and equipment costs. Follow Spirituality for Ordinary People on Instagram This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Episode 50 celebrates the one year anniversary of the Spirituality for Ordinary People Podcast. Ashley Boychuk joins our host, Matthew Brough, and she interviews him.  This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

MARCH 27 - LAST DAY TO ENTER THE BIG GOD BOOK GIVEAWAY WITH 24 BOOKS!ENTER HERE: https://spiritualityforordinarypeople.com/giveawayEpisode 49 features an interview with Rev. Peter Bush. Peter is serving a one year term as the moderator of the Presbyterian Church in Canada. He is the minister at Westwood Presbyterian Church in Winnipeg and the author of several books. He is passionate about congregations and individuals living the love of Jesus in action and telling the story of Jesus in words.Peter has a heart for small congregations, having led workshops, coached leadership teams and offered training events to help small congregations thrive in remote, rural, suburban and urban contexts. To this end he has authored two books, In Dying we are Born (Alban, 2008) and with Christine O’Reilly, Where Twenty or Thirty are Gathered (Alban, 2006).Some of What We Talk AboutHow interactions on social media have been among the most surprising things about his year as moderator.Why his prayers as the moderator have struck such a chord across the Presbyterian Church in Canada.The value of prayers that are timely and responsive to the actual realities of our world and lives.What is it that drives his passion for the number of things he is passionate about.How we need to remember the 1994 confession of the Presbyterian Church to Indigenous People.The importance of having conversation and real relationship with Indigenous Peoples in our neighbourhoods and communities, as congregations and individuals.Why is history so important (including a fun anecdote about James Robertson!) and how it can teach us humility.Loving the Bible and whether there can be connections between devotional life and sermon preparation.Being spiritual fed through reading.The intentionality of writing prayers and having set times to pray.The importance of a diversity of ways to pray.Links and Resources:The Moderator Page of the Presbyterian Church in CanadaVisit Peter on FacebookIn Dying we are Born (Alban, 2008)Where Twenty or Thirty are Gathered (Alban, 2006).Preaching by Fred CraddockVeli-Matti Kärkkäinen - systematic theologian at FullerDakota: A Spiritual Geography by Kathleen NorrisJoin others in contributing financially to help pay for hosting and equipment costs. Follow Spirituality for Ordinary People on Instagram This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Episode 48 features an interview with Lacey Buchanan. Lacey and her family are truly amazing. Her oldest son, Christian, was born with a rare form of cleft lip and palate called Tessier cleft lip and palate, classifications 3, 4, 5. Christian is completely blind. He is medically complex, but rocking this thing called life! Christian and his mom, Lacey, are on a mission to spread hope to others, share truths about having a disability and raising a child with one, and showing the world how to overcome life's toughest obstacles!Lacey shares her family's story openly through her facebook page and through her book, Through the Eyes of Hope.Lacey's book is also part of this MASSIVE giveaway that is open until March 28th, 2018. click here to view the main giveaway page and see the other books being featured! Some of What We Talk AboutSeeing God in the midst of life's roller coastersThe difficulty and the heaviness of theirWhat it really means to have a relationship with God and to really trust in God.How we often miss the beauty in difficult circumstancesMaking a decision to stick with God when life is falling apartStruggling with the question of why we face tragedy or challengesThe gift of her childrenWe are all going to have the worst day of our life. Do we respond with blame? How else can we respond?"No matter how hard our days might be the truths about God are still the truth?"Finding joy in small things, including the fun of being around children.Allowing joy to come in letting go of what is not in your own control.Resting in how loved you are by God.Why Lacey felt she needed to share her story.The importance of a Church Community.The importance of reading the Bible, even if it is just for a few minutes a day.Links and Resources:Christian and Lacey's facebook pageThrough the Eyes of Hope: Love More, Worry Less, and See God in the Midst of Your Adversity by Lacey Buchanan with Bethany JettBlessings by Laura StoryWelcome to Holland by Emily Perl KingsleyJoin others in contributing financially to help pay for hosting and equipment costs. Follow Spirituality for Ordinary People on Instagram This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Episode 47 features an interview with Lacy Clark Ellman. She is a spiritual director, maker, and facilitator who speaks the language of pilgrimage and is always ready for the next adventure, having traveled to over twenty countries on four continents. Lacy provides resources, courses and guidance through her website, A Sacred Journey. Partway through the interview, Lacy shares her "rule of life for pilgrims," or "Pilgrim Principles," which was awesome! She goes through all seven principles and it is so good! You can get a free pdf of the principles by signing up for her newsletter at her website. Some of What We Talk AboutPilgrimage and journeyHow do we understand or define pilgrimageConnections between walking, wandering, traveling, slowing down, and connecting with God.The biblical roots of pilgrimage and wandering"the seeker is at the heart of each one of us."How we are invited into journies every day.How "going to Church" can be seen as a pilgrimage.How does someone live out being on a sacred journey in their everyday life.7 principles for pilgrims: a rule of life.Why curiosity in daily life is important.Why Spiritual direction is important and who it is for.Links and Resources:Lacy's website, A Sacred Journey. (At her website, you can sign up to get a PDF of her rule of life for pilgrims, called Pilgrim Principles)The Upsides of WanderlustGlory Happening by Kaitlin CurtisJoin others in contributing financially to help pay for hosting and equipment costs. Follow Spirituality for Ordinary People on Instagram This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Episode 46 features an interview with Steve Saccone. He is a pioneer in the field of unrestricted education and leadership development. For more than a decade he’s been partnering with churches nationwide to design and launch innovative internship programs. He has been in pastoral ministry for more than fifteen years, and currently works with Southeasten University. Steve is the author of several books, including the one we speak about in this interview (co-written with Cheri Saccone), Talking About God: Honest Conversations about Spirituality Some of What We Talk AboutWhat is a spiritual conversation?How does one have authenticity in your beliefs or worldview while engaging in spiritual conversations with people who do not share that worldview?The importance of clarity on your own convictions and being honest with people, but not imposing views.Why is being open to a spiritual conversation with a non-believer is important?Do we come into spiritual conversations with an agenda?What it means to walk with gentleness and respect, coming in peace.What it means to be sent by God to others.Why is entering a spiritual conversation so anxiety-inducing?The importance of engaging with the Bible.Links and Resources:Steve Saccone's WebsiteTalking about God: Honest Conversations about Spirituality by Steve and Cheri SacconeLiving FaithJoin others in contributing financially to help pay for hosting and equipment costs. Follow Spirituality for Ordinary People on Instagram This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Episode 45 features an interview with Paul Sohn. Paul is a leadership coach, speaker, and author. Formerly employed by both a Fortune 50 company and a Top 100 Great Place to Work Company, he the founder and CEO of QARA, an organization committed to empowering twenty-somethings to discover their God-given identity and calling. Paul is the best-selling author of Quarter-Life Calling: Pursuing Your God-Given Purpose in Your Twenties. Some of What We Talk AboutHow many 20 somethings are experiencing quarter-life crises.The danger and damage of comparing yourself to others, especially through social media.How finding your "dream job" may not bring fulfillment.The lostness of 20 somethings and what to do about it.The search for purpose - when do we ask God about His purpose for our lives.When does one become an adultCoping with the pace of changeHow calling is primarily about the callerWe ought to always talk about callings (plural) rather than calling.How can one discover their callingsDoes everyone have a calling? Is it only for Church jobs? Is it only for the upper middle class?What does it mean to let go of control of your own life and trust in God.How we think about work and why is our understanding and concept of work important.The power of reading Scripture.Links and Resources:Quarter Life Calling by Paul SohnPaul Sohn's websiteQARAThe Other Six Days: The Christian meaning of work and property by Joseph C McLellandJoin others in contributing financially to help pay for hosting and equipment costs. Follow Spirituality for Ordinary People on Instagram This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Episode 44 features an interview with Jon Fuller. Jon is the host of the Are Your Real: Finding the Authentic You Podcast, one of the top podcasts in Religion and Spirituality. He is the author of D.I.Y. Remodel Your Life. Jon is also just a regular person—his main job is running a construction business. Jon explains why he started his podcast, and how it moved from a hobby to a close to full-time ministry, and how it is expanding. He is completely honest about his early walk with God, including the bumpy road of actually accepting Christ. Jon is simply full of energy and is generally a fascinating person to listen to. Some of What We Talk AboutPodcasting and providing a platform for others.What being honest and authentic looks likeWhy it is important to be yourself - only you can be you.Jon's story of healing and restoration.The common thread in the Are You Real Podcast - obedience and trust.Journey and the building of characterWhat it means to let your light shine. Why it is a good thing to be great at using the gifts you've been given.What it means to lay down your life for others.Links and Resources:Jon's website and podcast: Are You RealD.I.Y. Remodel Your Life by Jon FullerOne Extraordinary MarriageChris Valentin of Bethel ChurchJoin others in contributing financially to help pay for hosting and equipment costs. Follow Spirituality for Ordinary People on Instagram This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Episode 43 features and interview with Jo Saxton and Stephanie O'Brien. Jo and Steph are the leaders and voices of the LeadStories podcast, which focusses on telling leadership stories. They speak about leadership in the broadest senses: at church, in the workplace, at home. Jo Saxton  is a Nigerian Londoner - A pastor, missional leader, speaker and leadership coach. She is board chair of 3DMovements, and on the advisory board for Today’s Christian Women. Jo is the author of 4 books, including her lastest book that we talk about extensively in the interview:  The Dream of You. Stephanie O'Brien is one of the lead pastors of Mill City Church. She is a professor for ministry classes at Bethel University and Seminary and has experience coaching leaders and churches around the United States and Canada with 3DMovements, The Missional Network and as well as through her own consulting content. Some of What We Talk AboutThis is such an amazing conversation. So much is covered! Toward the end, we of course talk about their individual spiritual practices. Here are our basic topics: LeadershipWomen in leadershipWhat men in leadership can do to support women in leadershipThe Dream of You bookHow can we help people recover/uncover their identity and purposeUnderstanding your own storyAllowing your story to begin having a redemptive trajectory Links and Resources:Lead StoriesThe Dream of You by Jo SaxtonPastor Steph's websiteJo's websiteJoin others in contributing financially to help pay for hosting and equipment costs. Follow Spirituality for Ordinary People on Instagram This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

You’ve heard of March Madness. Well, what about Lent Madness? The guest on episode 42 is the Rev. Tim Schenk, who started Lent Madness in 2010. In seeking a fun, engaging way for people to learn about the men and women comprising the Anglican Church’s Calendar of Saints, Tim came up with this unique Lenten devotion. Combining his love of sports with his passion for the lives of the saints, Lent Madness was born… This interview was a lot of fun. It is a reminder to not take ourselves too seriously—even in the very serious season of Lent! Tim talks about how important it is to still be joyful in the season that is marked with penitence, claiming that Lent is really about drawing nearer to God, strengthening our relationship with God—and what is more joyful than that! But what is Lent Madness?You can listen to the interview, or visit the Lent Madness website, but basically, here’s the deal… 32 saints are placed into a tournament-like single elimination bracket. Each pairing remains open for a set period of time and people vote for their favorite saint. 16 saints make it to the Round of the Saintly Sixteen; eight advance to the Round of the Elate Eight; four make it to the Faithful Four; two to the Championship; and the winner is awarded the coveted Golden Halo.  Links and Resources:Lent MadnessForward MovementTim Schenk’s blog, Clergy ConfidentialTim Schenk’s booksJoin others in contributing financially to help pay for hosting and equipment costs. Follow Spirituality for Ordinary People on Instagram This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Episode 41 features an interview with Karl Vaters. Karl writes and speaks about leadership in the small church, including his own blog, and a Christianity Today blog called Pivot. He is the author of a Small Church Essentials: Field-Tested Principles for Leading a Healthy Congregation of under 250 and  The Grasshopper Myth: Big Churches, Small Churches and the Small Thinking that Divides Us and is the pastor of Cornerstone Christian Fellowship in Fountain Valley, California. SOME OF WHAT WE TALK ABOUT:Why focus on small churches?What does it mean to be a healthy small church?Over 80% of churches are small churches (under 200 people)Over half of Christians are part of small churches - that is over 1 billion people.Why is there not more material directed toward or produced by small churches and small church leadership?What are the possibilities for spiritual practices that exist in a small church that may not be present in a larger church?Being forced to deal with conflict and how working it through provides greater health and healing.The beauty of multiple generations being church together.Why “online” church is church, but is not enough church.The changing landscape of culture, church, and spirituality.Taking time for prayer, Bible reading, and slowing down.What does it look like to slow down and notice the presence of God?Finding your own rhythm, and the best time for prayer or devotional.LINKS AND RESOURCES:Small Church Essentials: Field-Tested Principles for Leading a Healthy Congregation of under 250 by Karl VatersThe Grasshopper Myth: Big Churches, Small Churches and the Small Thinking that Divides Us by Karl VatersNew Small ChurchPivot: Innovative Leadership from a Small Church Perspective200 Churches PodcastJoin others in contributing financially to help pay for hosting and equipment costs. Follow Spirituality for Ordinary People on Instagram This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Episode 40 features an interview with Cheryl Wunderlich, author of Sacred Rest: Finding the Sabbath in the Everyday. Here's a bit from here bio... After years caught up in the whirlwind of family life, motherhood, work, and ministry, Cheryl couldn’t imagine allowing rest for herself—until cancer forced her to stop. In her crushing battle with exhaustion, she began to hear God’s still, small voice inviting her to hope, be restored, and to find deep soul-quenching rest in Him. God’s rest was her way back to life. Some of What We Talk About:What the Bible says about restHow we can be far off from God’s vision of rest for our livesGod ordering the world with a pattern of regular restHow breaking the Sabbath is more serious than we thinkHow keeping sabbath is an act of faith/trust in GodHow sabbath is a giftHow we need boundaries to prevent working too muchSabbath as a time for worship and abiding in GodEvaluating the work that you are doing - asking whether the busyness of your life is really what God wants you to be doing.How to fight against busynessLooking to the life of Jesus and his retreats to quiet, desolate placesSetting posteriorities - writing down those things that you are going to not do.Instead of juggling priorities or things on the schedule - prune things (even good things!) in order to be more fruitful.Thinking about what delights your soul, and incorporating that into your Sabbath rest.The day of preparation for the SabbathThe challenge of taking a true day of rest where you do not do any work - AT ALL!How Sabbath helps us remember that we are here for more than this life.What kinds of things to do (and not do) on the Sabbath.Links and Resources:Rhythms of Rest - Cheryl's website Sacred Rest: Finding the Sabbath in the EverydayCrazy Busy by Kevin DeYoungJoin others in contributing financially to help pay for hosting and equipment costs. Follow Spirituality for Ordinary People on Instagram This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Subscribe: iTunes | Stitcher | TuneIn Radio | Google PlayEpisode 39 of the podcast features an interview with Sarah Bessey. She is the author of Jesus Feminist and Out of Sorts and has also written for numerous publications including Huffington Post, The High Calling, Conversations Journal, ChurchLeaders.com, Her.meneutics – Christianity Today’s Blog for Women, Converge Magazine, SheLoves Magazine, RELEVANT Magazine, and Today’s Christian Woman. Sarah preaches and teaches regularly.I found out pretty quickly that Sarah is generous and gracious. What an amazing interview! What she shared is a little tough to summarize, but we basically talked about Jesus, Church, and how her introduction to ancient practices helped her find a home in a time when she was hurting and experiencing unanswered prayers.Some of What We Talk About:Sarah’s family background and how her family coming to faith was complete turn your life aroundKnowing a lot about Church, but not really knowing JesusHow knowing Jesus as an adult can be complicated, nuanced, and beautiful.Why Jesus is central. What does it mean to really follow Jesus?What is so important about “plain old church?”“Church” in the abstract vs. participating with the people of the ChurchChurch as a spiritual disciplineChurch as counter-cultural practiceChurch as not tameThe shift that took place in Sarah’s spiritual life.Finding room for people who have unanswered prayers, or are having trouble with joy, or happy songs.Links and Resources:SarahBessey.comOut of SortsJesus Feminist: An Invitation to Revisit the Bible’s View of Women Join others in contributing financially to help pay for hosting and equipment costs.  Follow Spirituality for Ordinary People on Instagram This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Episode 37 is based on a message given at Prairie Presbyterian Church on Dec 17, 2017.Visit www.spiritualityfornormalpeople.com/sixstories to view the artwork referenced in this episode. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Episode 36 of the podcast features an interview with Rodrigo de la Sotta. Rodrigo is the director of spiritual formation for Cyclical LA, an organization that develops leaders toward sustainability in a church-starting ecosystem. As a Coach and Spiritual Director, his passion is to help others explore how theological reflection and psychological development can have a meaningful conversation and how sacred space can be discovered in all things. He considers Chico his hometown, though his roots will always be found in his native land of Chile.Some of What We Talk About:Church planting and spiritual healthMatters of spirituality are so often assumed.Much of our effort is in telling people how important prayer is, rather than helping them learn to pray.How can sacred space be discovered in all things?Beginning with the assumption that God is present everywhere.The challenge of teaching people to prayUsing a prayer of Recollection (see this video) Understanding prayer through a relational lensAre you hearing from God vs. are you simply with GodFinding a different starting place in prayer.How do we feel a deep sense of safety and honesty in prayer?How do you deal with a spiritual practice feeling dry or empty?Being process driven rather than praxis drivenUnderstanding spirituality using attachment theoryWhat does it mean for God to be parent and us to be child?God’s posture of responsibility and our posture of trust and receptivityHow adoption is a powerful way of understanding the saving relationship we have with God.Having simple anchors throughout the day to remind yourself that you are loved.Quotes"Our capacities to love others well is never going to exceed our experienced of being loved well by God and by others.”“We lead with our body in order to open the heart to the spirit of God."Links and Resources:Cyclical LAVideo on the Prayer of Recollection Theresa of Avila Join others in contributing financially to help pay for hosting and equipment costs.  Follow Matthew Brough on Social Media:TwitterFacebookInstagram This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Episode 35 of the podcast features an interview with Ben McFarland. Ben teaches biochemistry and chemistry at Seattle Pacific University in Seattle, Washington. He is also connected with BioLogos, an organization that invites the church and the world to see the harmony between science and biblical faith.Some of What We Talk About:How can there be a harmony between science and faithWhere does the perceived conflict between faith and science come from?The philosophy of scientismHow interpretation is present in both science and theologyUnderstanding the "book of God" and the "book of nature.”What to say to people who believe that science is all there isWhat to say to Christians who reject certain scientific ideas (e.g. Big Bang theory, evolution)How is it that we read Genesis 1-3J.R.R. Tolkien leading C.S. Lewis to ChristListening to various theological voicesThe importance of order, sabbath, being part of your communityReminding yourself to pray, and how God brings you back from a “default deism"The origins of the title for Ben's book, "A World from Dust"Links and Resources:Ben McFarland’s WebsiteA World From Dust: How the Periodic Table Shaped Life by Ben McFarlandBioLogosFrancis CollinsThe Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief by Francis CollinsJohn Walton - BioLogos - Ancient Near East ScholarThe Lost World of Genesis 1 by John Walton The Spirit of Creation by Amos YongDel Ryder and the Crystal Seed by Matthew Brough Join others in contributing financially to help pay for hosting and equipment costs.  Follow Matthew Brough on Social Media:TwitterFacebookInstagram This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Episode 34 of the podcast is the third part of a 3 part series where I read from my book, Let God Be Present.Part two is called "After the Storm: A Reflection On Mark 4:36-41 And What Follows"You can buy a copy of Let God Be Present on Amazon or get a paperback copy sent to you when you support the podcast on Patreon at the $4 per month level.A little more about Let God Be Present...What does it really mean to connect with God? We search for meaning, connection, or guidance, but rarely let go of our pre-conceived notions of what we want to hear. This book asks you to trust God to be present and speak on His terms, rather than insisting that God fit in with your own idea of what He should be doing in your life. Join others in contributing financially to help pay for hosting and equipment costs.  Follow Matthew Brough on Social Media:TwitterFacebookInstagram This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

This bonus episode features a sermon preached by Matthew Brough at Prairie Presbyterian Church on November 19, 2017. It walks through the first two chapters of the Book of Ruth, and discovers that it has a lot to say about how we treat "foreigners." Ruth was a Moabite who came to live in Bethlehem as an outsider. How was she treated and how was it different than the usual way she might have been treated?  This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Subscribe: iTunes | Stitcher | TuneIn Radio | Google PlayEpisode 33 of the podcast is the second part of a 3 part series where I read from my book, Let God Be Present. Part two is called "Tuning in and Trusting God: A Reflection on 1 Samuel 3"You can buy a copy of Let God Be Present on Amazon or get a paperback copy sent to you when you support the podcast on Patreon at the $4 per month level.A little more about Let God Be Present...What does it really mean to connect with God? We search for meaning, connection, or guidance, but rarely let go of our pre-conceived notions of what we want to hear. This book asks you to trust God to be present and speak on His terms, rather than insisting that God fit in with your own idea of what He should be doing in your life. Join others in contributing financially to help pay for hosting and equipment costs.  Follow Matthew Brough on Social Media:TwitterFacebookInstagram This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Episode 31 of the podcast is the first part of a 3 part series where I read from my book, Let God Be Present. In this first part, I do a brief introduction about how I have always struggled with the word "spirituality" and why this particular book fits with the idea of this podcast. After the intro, I read the introduction to the book itself and then move into the longer section, which is Part 1 of the book, titled "God's Presence Even When You Might Not Want It: A Reflection on Exodus 31-33."You can buy a copy of Let God Be Present on Amazon or get a paperback copy sent to you when you support the podcast on Patreon at the $4 per month level.A little more about Let God Be Present...What does it really mean to connect with God? We search for meaning, connection, or guidance, but rarely let go of our pre-conceived notions of what we want to hear. This book asks you to trust God to be present and speak on His terms, rather than insisting that God fit in with your own idea of what He should be doing in your life. Join others in contributing financially to help pay for hosting and equipment costs.  Follow Matthew Brough on Social Media:TwitterFacebookInstagram This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Happy Reformation Day! 500 years ago today (this episode is coming out on October 31st, 2017), Martin Luther nailed his 95 theses to the door of the Church in Wittenberg and started the Protestant Reformation.  I thought it would be a ton of fun to talk to a "Reformation expert," and I did. What a great conversation!!!Episode 31 of the podcast features an interview with Bruce Gordon. Bruce is Professor of Ecclesiastical History at Yale Divinity School and is an expert on late-medieval and early modern periods, with a particular interest in the Reformation and its reception.Some of What We Talk About:The meaning and importance of pietyThe centrality of prayer for the reformersPraying the hours of the day was common for the reformers, patterned on the monastic lifeThe doing of charitable works was part of spiritual practice for the reformersWhat changed in terms of spirituality with the onset of the ReformationHow a sense of the mystical, sacredness, and wonder may have been lost with the onset of ProtestantismWhy art was removed from Churches in the Reformation periodHow the Reformation raises relevant questions for today regarding worship and spiritual practiceThe people themselves were empowered to engage with the Scriptures, and each person was empowered to take responsibility for their own spiritual lives.The importance of the Priesthood of All BelieversSpirituality as grounded in tradition and historyConstantly seek to become more Christ-like at the heart of Christian SpiritualityThe richness and wisdom of Christian historyReclaiming the heritage and understanding the meaning of your liturgical traditionWhy John Calvin is vilified and also revered depending who you talk to.John Calvin as pastor to refugees and how that shaped his message.John Calvin’s insistence on God being with you.Why do we call it the Reformed TraditionLinks and Resources:Bruce Gordon's Bio at YaleCalvin by Bruce GordonJohn Calvin’s "Institutes of the Christian Religion": A Biography by Bruce Gordon  Join others in contributing financially to help pay for hosting and equipment costs.  Follow Matthew Brough on Social Media:TwitterFacebookInstagram This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Episode 30 of the podcast features an interview with Kaitlyn Curtice. Kaitlyn is a Native American writer, teacher and worship leader. Her writing is beautiful, observant, and gracious. Her book, Glory Happening: Finding the Diving in Everyday Places is a book of stories and prayers that remind you to take a closer look at your everyday circumstances, to find the magical beauty in everyday experiences. It is an invitation to live deeply into every moment with the expectation that something good will find you at the end of the day.Some of What We Talk About:Staying still and taking in the beauty around youWhat is the glory of God?The difficulty of slowing downRhythms of seasons, days, and weeksThe first way we learn about God is through natureReading the Bible as an Indigenous personThe temptation of Jesus as wilderness / "learning who you" are storyUnderstanding Jesus as non-whiteThe silence of the Church with respect to Indigenous historyThe importance of hearing the story of North America’s indigenous peoplesWhat it means to honor the earth or the landObserving glory while doing the dishes or other everyday tasksWhat it means to stand on holy ground and call yourself blessedBeing rooted in gratitude / counting your blessingsHow to practice silence / why it is difficultBurning sage and sweetgrass as part of prayerFacing the truth in times of silenceQuotes from the Book"What we choose to see is holy ground for our feet, solace for our tired and often-wandering souls, no matter how everyday. We choose to stop and take in glory; we choose a different reality.”“God shows up in the whirlwinds,” Barbara (Brown Taylor) would whisper, “in the starry skies, burning bushes, and perfect strangers. When people want to know more about God, the son of God tells them to pay attention to the lilies of the field and the birds of the air, to women kneading bread and workers lining up for their pay.” And the more I read Barbara’s words, the more they became the soft-spoken words of my own heart—the journey I’d started in 2014 when we moved to sunny Georgia, and the journey I began in order to learn more about my Native American heritage."I recall why exactly I get to stand on holy ground and call myself blessed in a tiny space with a busy schedule and two toddlers running around me day and night.”Links and Resources:Kaitlyn Curtice’s websiteKaitlyn Curtice’s Patheos pageGlory Happening by Kaitlyn CurticeRichard RohrBarbara Brown TaylorRandy WoodleyEpisode 10 - Margaret Mullin interview on Indigenous Practices and Spirituality Join others in contributing financially to help pay for hosting and equipment costs.  Follow Matthew Brough on Social Media:TwitterFacebookInstagram This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Episode 29 of the podcast features an interview with Children's author Laura Alary. Laura has written several books, including the new Look! A Child’s Guide to Advent and Christmas and Make Room: A Child’s Guide to Lent and Easter - both written and illustrated for children ages 7-10.Toward the end of the interview, we talk about an awesome new Children's Bible that Laura has written. You can get Read, Wonder, Listen: Stories from the Bible for Young Readers today!Some of What We Talk About:Teresa McDonald-Lee’s interview - talking about spirituality for childrenExploring the liturgical year with childrenThemes present in Look! A Child’s Guide to Advent and ChristmasPrompting wonder in childrenTactile experiences for children in worship - Prayer flags and Fruit juice of the spiritWalking a labyrinth - Robin McGauley’s interviewSeasonal table - advent wreaths, figurines of biblical people, Jesse Tree (some info on a Jesse tree)Observing the season of AdventA daily walk as meditationLinks and Resources:Laura Alary's WebsiteLook! A Child’s Guide to Advent and Christmas Make Room: A Child’s Guide to Lent and EasterRead, Wonder, Listen: Stories from the Bible for Young ReadersParaclete Press -parents and teachers can see a preview of the new book online hereWoodlake BooksNarrative LectionaryChildren and WorshipSurprised by Joy by C.S. Lewis Join others in contributing financially to help pay for hosting and equipment costs.  Follow Matthew Brough on Social Media:TwitterFacebookInstagram This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Episode 28 of the podcast features an interview with Brian Zahnd. Brian is the pastor of Word of Life Church in St. Joseph, Missouri and author of several books, including Sinners in the Hands of a Loving God and A Farewell to Mars.Some of What We Talk About:Experiencing dramatic conversion to Christ and the impact moving forwardBeing honest in our approach to the scriptures and centering our understanding of Christ by reading the gospelsHow the Crucifixion of Jesus provides a lens for understanding the violence of humanityHow God’s "response" to the crucifixion is forgiveness and the sending out of the apostlesHow we mistake violent retribution for justice but God’s justice is restorativeThe place of the Book of Revelation - prophetic critique of the Roman Empire - laden with symbolMystical encounters in prayer - God as love and lightSpiritual practice - Brian has a regular morning liturgy that he follows. He learned to sit silently acknowledging the presence of Jesus / occasionally something would happen - a mystical direct experience of God / an overwhelming sense of the love of God would be feltTrusting a well-crafted liturgy to guide us through our prayer lifeBrian summed up his book Sinners in the Hands of a Loving God by saying, "The good news is that God is like Jesus"Links and Resources:Brian Zahnd's WebsiteSinners in the Hands of a Loving GodA Farewell to Mars: An Evangelical Pastor's Journey Toward the Biblical Gospel of PeaceBeauty Will Save the World: Rediscovering the Allure and Mystery of ChristianityWater to Wine: Some of My StoryHans Urs Von Balthasar - Swiss theologian and Catholic priestHenri NouwenStanley HauerwasThe Great Divorce by C.S. Lewis Join others in contributing financially to help pay for hosting and equipment costs.  Follow Matthew Brough on Social Media:TwitterFacebookInstagram This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Episode 27 of the podcast features an interview with Bethany Jett. Bethany is an author, speaker, and entrepreneur. She has worked on all kinds of projects, including the moving book, Through the Eyes of Hope. She is also one of the founders of the new Serious Writer Academy.It was truly wonderful to talk to Bethany. She and I met about 18 months ago at the only writers' conference I have ever attended. Since then, we've continued a friendship, mostly talking about writing, and connecting regularly on an online Writers' Chat that she has helped organize.Bethany is very open about her life and some of the struggles she faces, particularly with having a military spouse that can be posted overseas. In this interview, she really shows both her strength and vulnerability.Some of What We Talk About:Living the life God has made for youThe importance of Youth groups for teens.Talking to God throughout the day as a Spiritual PracticeFinding God in the midst of the day to day momentsHow finding time for God becomes more challenging in adulthood.The pressures of parentingTeaching our children by modeling spiritual practicesproviding a foundation for children so they can connect with GodTrusting that God will seek a relationship with your children.The Benefits of having a mentor in your ChurchTrusting that God will take care of you when tragedy strikes.Relying on God when you need strength to get through the day.Links and Resources:Bethany's WebsiteSerious Writer AcademyThrough the Eyes of HopeLacey BuchananLet God Be Present Join others in contributing financially to help pay for hosting and equipment costs.  Follow Matthew Brough on Social Media:TwitterFacebookInstagram This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Episode 26 of the podcast features an interview with S.D. (Sam) Smith. Sam is the author of The Green Ember books and is a co-founder of Story Warren, a website for parents and others dedicated to helping foster holy imagination in children.Sam and I have a great time on this interview chatting about what it means to anticipate the kingdom of God, why the imagination is important, and some of the resources he uses to remain connected to God.Some of What We Talk About:Anticipation of the Kingdom of GodLiving by an ethic that reflects the Kingdom of GodTeaching and writing books for children that reflect ChristianityWhat "Kindling imagination” and “holy imagination” meanMatthew 13 - Parables about the Kingdom and the importance of storyHow stories are powerful and shape us as people right from childhoodConnections to God that are present in the writing of The Green Ember and in Del Ryder and the Crystal Seed.Hope and light embedded in story is vital as we have enough dark in our livesIncarnational SpiritualityConnections through composed prayerThe Daily OfficeRitual, Routine, and Repetition as spiritual practiceFollowing Christ as our model for spiritual practiceFasting and prayerRitual gives birth to creativity, excitementHow gloriously creative moments can come from routine practicesGod creates extraordinary moments from the routine practices we participate in like liturgy in worshipReceiving God's inheritance as a life-giving gift, not a burdenLinks and Resources:S.D. Smith's WebsiteThe Green EmberEmber FallsDel Ryder and the Crystal SeedStory WarrenOrthodoxy by G.K. ChestertonA Diary of Private Prayer by John Baillie  Join others in contributing financially to help pay for hosting and equipment costs.  Follow Matthew Brough on Social Media:TwitterFacebookInstagram This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Episode 25 of the podcast features an interview with Sundi Jo Graham. Sundi Jo is an author and blogger, and is the founder of a ministry called Esther’s House of Redemption, which is a faith-based residential discipleship program, located in rural Missouri, offering hope to broken women. They serve women from all backgrounds, ages 18+, who struggle with life-controlling issues, such as alcohol and drug addictions, depression, self-harm, the aftermath of physical and sexual abuse, and more.You'd think this episode might be super-heavy, but Sundi Jo is great at tackling big issues with grace, kindness, and simplicity.Some of What We Talk About:Why forgive and forget doesn’t work.Forgiveness is a big part of healing.The importance of actually facing your brokennessForgiveness is not a one-time thingAsking God to be your KeeperThe importance of reading the Bible and PrayerCounselling matters, friendship mattersWhy thinking we’re okay on our own is pridefulMorning routines: coffee and scriptureJournallingListening to music as a spiritual practiceHaving a better sleep routineSetting goalsLinks and Resources:Sundi Jo’s WebsiteEsther’s House of RedemptionDear Dad: Did You Know I Was a Princess by Sundi Jo GrahamGraham CookeBethel Radio on Pandora Join others in contributing financially to help pay for hosting and equipment costs.  Follow Matthew Brough on Social Media:TwitterFacebookInstagram This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Episode 24 of the podcast features an interview with Adam Weber. Adam in the pastor of Embrace Church in Sioux Falls, SD, and is the author of Talking to God: What to Say When You Don’t Know How to Pray. What a phenomenal conversation. Adam has tons of energy, so much depth, and wants to help people connect with God in real ways. His book does just that!  It is great for people who don’t know much about prayer or God and it provides encouragement for long-time Christians while being engaging for new Christians.Some of What We Talk About:Challenges in our prayer livesStaying connected to Jesus through prayerHow prayer gets missed in our busy livesThe joy that comes from connecting with ChristMaking prayer routine and converting thoughts into prayersHow it is okay to ask people for help.The importance of surrendering control to God.Why we waste time on worry and stress about life goals instead of praying for discernment from God and asking God for wisdom about what to do.How to understand God’s calling and the importance of community in hearing God.Quotes from the Book“Instead of it being another daily chore, something changes when prayer slowly becomes as natural as breathing. When we figure out that it no longer takes energy. Instead, prayer fills us with it. Prayer fills us with life.”“[Prayer] connects us with the One who treads water for us when we’re unable to swim ourselves. The Ultimate Plate Spinner who helps us discern which plates are actually worth spinning.”The longer I follow Jesus, the more I find myself praying, God, what do you want? What do you think I need? What is your plan? What is your will? The longer I follow Jesus, the more I find myself asking him to take control. And the more he takes control, the more I get to live into this response—’That was awesome, Dad!’”Links and Resources:Adam’s WebsiteTalking to God: What to Say When You Don’t Know How to Pray by Adam WeberEmbrace ChurchFollow Adam on InstagramFollow Adam on Twitter  Join others in contributing financially to help pay for hosting and equipment costs.  Follow Matthew Brough on Social Media:TwitterFacebooInstagram This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Episode 23 of the podcast features an interview with Lindsey Brackett. Lindsey is a writer of beautiful words. From her about page, Lindsey writes: "I like to string words together and make stories and images and memories that live and move and breathe in the confines of the imagination.” She observes life, beauty, grace, and God. Her first novel, Still Waters - (released on Sept 8, 2017), has forgiveness as its core theme. Some of What We Talk About:What does it mean to be “worthy” of forgiveness?What are the limits of human forgiveness?What does “spirituality” mean?Spirituality is about seeking fellowship with God and trying to see God every day.Being created with a need to connect with the spiritual because God wants to have a relationship with you.Every day is a gift and that ordinary things can be God teaching us.Writing as an overflow of the experience of God.Being in community through writing.Using your gifts in service for all kinds of people.How fiction and different genres helps people enter into a deeper understanding of God, grace, and theological ideas.Being the same person at church as you are in the rest of your lifeWhy “God won’t give you more than you can handle” isn’t true.Spirituality in the familyThe home being the primary place of Christian educationHaving a quiet time with GodHaving a time of listening to God rather than talkingLinks and Resources:Lindsay’s website: Just Write LifeStill Waters by Lindsey BrackettJesus Calling Devotion for KidsOswald Chambers Join others in contributing financially to help pay for hosting and equipment costs.  Follow Matthew Brough on Social Media:TwitterFacebookInstagram This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Episode 22 features an interview with Steve Brown. Steve is the president of Arrow Leadership, which is an organization focussed on developing Christian leaders. We talk about how we often want a "balanced life," but that this might be quite different from a Christ-centered life. Steve is passionate about helping people develop sustainable rhythms that support a life centered on Jesus. Some of What We Talk About:Gaining basic awareness that God loves you, and why this is so importantGetting out of a performance mindset with GodServing from acceptance versus serving for acceptance.The danger of seeking “balance” in lifeBeing Christ centered rather than seeking balanceWhat are the sustainable rhythms that support a Christ-centred life?Having a plan, a place, and a time to connect with GodPraying for God to teach you to abide, and praying on the armor of GodHaving a Prayer calendarThe value of Sabbath and how our society suffers from “hurry sickness”Links and Resources:arrowleadership.orgsharpeningleaders.comLeading Me: 8 practices for a Christian Leader’s Most Important Assignment by Steve BrownTransforming Leadership: Jesus' Way of Creating Vision, Shaping Values & Empowering Change by Leighton FordCentered Life by Jack FortinGod in My Everything by Ken Shigematsu This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Episode 21 features an interview with Steve Weins. Steve is the author of Whole and Beginnings. He is the pastor of Genesis Covenant Church and had a podcast called This Good Word. This interview is packed with great stuff - what an amazing conversation! We spend most of the time speaking about Steve’s latest book, but it is a pretty free wheeling conversation. So much fun!Get Steve's latest book, Whole: Restoring What is Broken in Me, You, and The Entire World Some of What We Talk About:The wide inclusivity of restoration.What is broken and why do we need restoration?Shalom as wholeness (restoring what is broken)Moving to wholeness is a hopeful journeyThe arc that shoots through all of scripture is restorationWhat is the difference between a self-improvement project and a journey?How you find joy in the everyday, and why is joy important?He asked Eugene Peterson, “what do you think pastors are struggling with today?” The answer is so great, and tough to hear.What is the connection between the promised land and restoration, and why do we need to be strong and courageous in entering the promised land?We talked a lot about the temptation of Jesus, and what it means to think of Jesus as weak when we relate to him.Laying down the need to be seen as successful.Quotes in this Episode“Faith is a lot more about mystery than it is about mastery."“Mystery is not something we can never understand, it’s something that we can endlessly understand.” Richard Rohr"What if pastors are supposed to be the people who model how to rest well…”"The promised land is not where all of our problems are solved... It is the place where you remember what it was like to be a slave and you begin fighting for the restoration of others.”“Thank God that God doesn’t wait for perfect motivation.”"There are things that need to change in me; they just won’t be changed by feeling bad about myself or trying really hardto fix them. That isn’t how wholeness works. The journey of wholeness is not a self-improvement project. It’s a journey of loss, trust, transformation, and eventually hope.” from Whole"...my own joy and enjoyment matter in measuring at least some of the metrics for indicating a successful Steve. I think I’m starting to learn that I can be a joyful pastor. Not a driven one, not a busy one, not a heroic one.” from WholeLinks and Resources:Steve’s WebsiteWhole: Restoring What is Broken in Me, You, and The Entire WorldBeginnings: The First Seven Days of the Rest of Your LifeThis Good Word PodcastLamb: The Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Pal by Christopher MooreLast Days in the Desert Richard Rohr The Enneagram  Follow Matthew Brough on Social Media:TwitterFacebookInstagram This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Episode 20 of the Spirituality for Normal People Podcast features an interview with Michael Priebe. Michael is the author of The Lovely Grind: Spiritual Inspiration for Workdays, a collection of 90 devotions for stress relief and personal growth. Some of What We Talk About:What do people need in their working life?What is spiritual health and its relation to physical health?Staying in a job and bringing meaning to it.What is Calling and Vocation?What does it look like to speak about faith in the workplace?Finding joy in the midst of regular life.Links and Resources:Michael Priebe's WebsiteThe Lovely Grind WebsiteBuy The Lovely Grind on AmazonThe Other Six Days by Joseph McLellandMoments of Peace in the Presence of GodThe One Year Uncommon Life Daily Challenge by Tony Dungy  This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Episode 19 features an interview with Erica Barthalow. Erica has been in various forms of ministry in her life, including three years as a missionary in India. She wrote a not so typical book about her experience there. It’s called Holy Doubt: Finding Hope When Faith is a Struggle.  She admits that three months into her time in India she felt abandoned by God. Some of what we talk about in the interview:What questions to ask about God: Is God good? Does God cause bad things to happen to us?Unlearning our assumptions about GodIf we follow Jesus will we always be safe?What are the stories of faith that get told? How do we tell stories of doubt and struggle?How we are changed by living in or visiting a different culture.Not being legalistic about reading the Bible, but attempting to read every day and read through the Bible in a yearPraying throughout the day vs. setting aside time to pray. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Episode 18 of the Spirituality for Normal People Podcast features an interview with Jann Martin. Jann is a children’s author and has previously served as a youth leader at Prince of Peace Lutheran Church in Westland, Michigan and as the Director of Family Ministry at Faith Community Presbyterian Church of Novi, Michigan. Jann has an interesting story of falling into the calling of writing, after not being able to find a children’s story for a Christmas Eve Service. God asked her to write one, so she did. Several months later it was in print! The main theme that emerged in this conversation was how to hear God speaking. What a great and important theme!  Some of what was covered in this episode: When God blocks one path and opens anotherHow we deal with the "real life” strugglesNot settling for simplistic answers in situations of pain or sufferingReading devotional material and a chapter of Scripture per day.How do you hear God speaking?The importance of going to Church when you feel disconnected Links and Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeJann Martin's websiteThis Babe So Small by Jann MartinBible Characters through the ages by Jann MartinGuidepostsGuideposts MagazinePrairie Presbyterian Church on FacebookMatthew Brough's Message on Stewardship where he talks about The Realm of Gondor, and some other stuff...  Follow Matthew Brough on Social Media:TwitterFacebookInstagram This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Episode 17 of the Spirituality for Normal People Podcast features an interview with Kelly Edmiston. Kelly is the student minister at First Colony Church of Christ. We pack a ton of amazing stuff in this episode, as you can see from the notes below. Such a great conversation!Some of What We Talk AboutWhat happens when we don’t “feel it” in our spiritual life?Making feelings and experiences into idols. Seeking them instead of seeking God.When God might use a period of spiritual drynessHow do we stay obedient in the absence of emotion?There is no separation between sacred and secular - all is spiritualMaking spiritual practices tangibleBreath Prayers (e.g. “I am weak, but you a strong”)Silence as a spiritual practice and what to do about distractionsBe patient, gentle, and generous with yourselfFinding help for the Spiritual life in deep sources (e.g. Julian of Norwich)What is the relationship between suffering and the spiritual life?The metaphor of pregnancy and labor for the spiritual life.Kelly's Articles on Scot McKnight's BlogThe Feelings of the Spiritual LifeFollowing God and Unsolvable ProblemsThe Labor of LongingOther Links and ResourcesScot McKnight’s Jesus Creed BlogScrewtape Letters - C.S. LewisMother Teresa: Come Be My Light: The Private Writings of the Saint of CalcuttaInvitation to Solitude and Silence: Experiencing God's Transforming Presence - Ruth Haley BartonRuth Haley Barton’s BlogRevelations of Divine Love - Julian of Norwich   Follow Matthew Brough on Social Media:TwitterFacebookInstagram This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Episode 16 of the Spirituality for Normal People Podcast features an interview with author and podcaster James Prescott. We talk a bunch about James' book, Mosaic of Grace, and also touch on themes related to his podcast called Poema on the intersection of faith and spirituality.From the Intro to the Episode - I mention:That I happened to be on the Poema Podcast as a guest last week (beginning of July 2017). You can listen here.That I've started a Patreon Page where you can support the podcast for as little as $1 a month (did you know it actually costs me to produce this podcast every week?). I'll steal a line from one of my favorite podcasts. You can support the podcast for less than a coffee a month! Visit the Patreon Page and check out the free stuff if you support at the $2 level or higher!What we talk about in this episode:What is Grace really?The Japanese art of kintsugi (re-making broken pottery with gold joinery) as a metaphor for graceHow Jesus includes and loves us even when we turn from God."Poema" and the intersection of faith and spiritualityHow people have different ways of coming to or seeing spiritualityHow your mindset effects the way you see the world and engage with GodSpiritual encounters are not always goodHow most of human life is engaged in creative actsKeeping Sabbath and how “I am enough without my work"Links and Resources Mentioned in this EpisodeJames Prescott's websiteMosaic of GracePoema PodcastAlexander Shaia - QuadratosRichard RohrRob BellWhat is the Bible? by Rob Bell This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Episode 15 of the podcast features and interview with Scott Perkins. He is a discipleship coach and the author of the book Tree of Lies: Transforming Decisions, Behaviors, and Relationships By Gaining Perspective On Your Identity in Christ. We have a fantastic conversation about what identity in Christ really means, and the dangers of basing our identity and value in other things.Visit Scott’s website for a special bonus just for listeners of the Spirituality for Normal People Podcast!Quotes:“Ministry happens wherever you are.”“In our weakness and vulnerability there can be great power.”"The central lie that we tend to believe is that we need something in addition to or in place of God for wholeness.”"If your first thought when it comes to developing a rhythm of life is 'I don’t have the time' this might be an on-road to understanding your identity."In this episode, we discuss:The challenges of ministry in the ChurchChallenges for congregational leaders, trap of numbers, double standards for pastorsThe problem of using results as a measure for our spiritual life, rather than our identity in Christ.How our identity must only be in God and not in other things (even things that are good!)Doing spiritual practices not to earn God’s approval, but to live as who God created you to be.How to build a rhythm of life - just start something - set small goals.What is discipleship coaching?3 things to move forward in your identity in Christ:Know what you look to as your defining characteristic (e.g. other people’s approval)Know how you’re created (e.g. introvert or extrovert)Finding a rhythm of lifeSpiritual Practices that we touch on:One-line prayer in the morning - a way to remind ourselves about our identity in ChristJournalling based on ScriptureWalking and Hiking as prayer. Repeating a short scripture passage while walking.Silent Meditation - used as a reminder to listen for God and to shut down lies that you tell yourself.Using a word or a phrase as a way of focussing in prayer.Leaving time for quiet, stillness, listening.Once a week - Examine (looking back on the week)An open Bible near the door and a commitment to reading at least one verse.Trinkets and icons as ways of reminding you to pray or read the Bible.Once again, I mention the book Mini-Habits by Stephen Guise - http://amzn.to/2seGkL5Examples of one-line prayers:Lord Jesus, have mercy of me, a sinner. (The Jesus Prayer) - good prayer for living in grace.Holy Spirit come and fill me with your joy.Links:Special bonus on Scott’s websiteTree of Lies Book This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Episode 14 of Spirituality for Normal People features a fantastic interview with Stephanie Jones. Stephanie is known as the Giving Gal, having given a gift every day for over 500 days. She is the author of The Giving Challenge.What we talk about:What does it means to give a gift?Recognizing opportunities to give a giftHow gift giving moves us away from being judgmentalListening to that “nudge” within youGift-giving is about the other person.Not being scared of rejection when it comes to giving gifts.Thinking carefully about how Jesus would treat people.How giving is more than making donations to a church or other organizationThe importance of IntentionalityStarting Small with Acts of KindnessTaking action even when we don’t feel like it - the magic of starting!Obedience, faithfulness, and just showing upResources and Links from this episode:Stephanie's Book - The Giving Challenge29 Gifts: How a Month of Giving Can Change Your Life by Cami WalkerStephanie’s list of over 500 days of givingLeadership BibleMini-Habits by Stephen GuiseThe Compound Effect by Darren HardyConnect with Stephanie JonesHer Website - Giving GalTwitterFacebookPinterestInstagram This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Listen in as Matthew Brough talks about Psalm 4, which moves from our cry to God out of distress to God addressing our propensity to seek for peace in all the wrong places, to dealing with resentment at others' prosperity, to God granting us peaceful rest. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Episode 13 features an incredible interview with Glen Soderholm. Glen is the pastor of Two Rivers Church in Guelph, Ontario. Two Rivers began as a single house church of what he calls “a collection of strays, orphans, and exiles,”  born from the idea of actually being neighbours with the people you live close to. He had so much to share about the Spiritual life, including his theology of Spirituality and the very practical things he does.As an accomplished musician, Glen spoke about the role of music in the Spiritual life and shared his love for some musicians that you may not have heard of. There are some links below to some of them. Check them out!There is a discussion of icons, which is fascinating, and I've included in these notes images of two mentioned in the episode.Glen has an amazing way of remembering quotes. Check out the quotes section below to read some of what Glen said.Some of what we talked about:Spirituality is being included in the Triune communion of God.What it means to listen to God? How do we listen in our inner life.Being limited by a cognitive approach to spirituality.Healthy spirituality begins to integrate all the senses.Icons - what are they and how are they helpful?How prayer life and spirituality changes over time.Having a prayer binderJournalingThe power of habit regardless of how we feel, but not driven by guilt.The idea of Jesus being our great high priest. That Jesus prays for us! The Spirit intercedes for us. Two thirds of the Trinity are already praying for us!It is not about persuading God. God is pursuing us and longs for a connection with us.Memorizing Scripture, in particular PsalmsThe role of music in Spirituality (see links below!)Quotes from Glen Soderholm in the Podcast“In this day and age, the last person we expect to be our neighbour, might be our actual next door neighbour.”“Spirituality is a gift that comes to us from God. God is the initiator in the spiritual life.”"Creation is the result of the overflow of God’s life of love.”"Spirituality means talking to ourselves in healthy ways."A Prayer that he uses every day...I am the beloved child of God the Father. I am the beloved friend of God the Son. I am the beloved Temple of God the Holy Spirit. I am enfolded in the Three in One.Quotes from Others"Prayer is the gift of participating through the Spirit in the Son’s communion with the Father.” - James Torrence"Prayer is listening to God tell you that you are the beloved child.” - Henri Nouwen“It is you that lights my lamp, the Lord, my God, lights my darkness.” - Psalm 18:28“Prayer is not overcoming God’s reluctance. It is laying hold of God’s willingness.” - Julian of Norwich“The energy of reconciliation is the dynamo at the center of the universe “ - Eugene PetersonMusic RecommendationsPalestrina (listen to Palestrina’s Motets for 5 voices on YouTube)Bach  (listen to Bach’s Magnificat on Youtube)John Tavener (listen to Tavener’s Fragments of a Prayer on YouTube)Henryk Gorecki (listen to Gorecki’s Totus Tuus on Youtube)Arvo Part (listen to Arvo Part’s Magnificat on Youtube)Bifrost Arts - https://bifrostartsmusic.bandcamp.com/ This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Listen in as Matthew Brough talks about Psalm 3 with its powerful images of God being a shield and the lifter of your head. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Episode 12 of Spirituality for Normal People features an interview with Lisa Whittle. Lisa is a speaker and the author of six books. From her official bio: "Her love runs deep to see people pursue Jesus for life, grow deep roots of faith, and walk strong in the midst of a world that so often seems to have gone crazy."Lisa's latest book: Put Your Warrior Boots On: Walking Jesus Strong, Once and for AllWhat a great conversation! Lisa has incredible passion and straightforward honesty. Here is just some of what we talked about...How to deal with weariness and worryMoving from panic and fear to preparation and strengthIt is not about how you feel, it is about what you chooseChoosing to love, obey, and followWarrior boots as a symbol of walking in strengthPushing back on the idea of “brave”Receiving the power and strength of ChristReading through the Bible continuously.Listening in PrayerTaking the pressure off for our prayers to be a particular wayThe power of simpler, shorter prayersQuotes From This Episode"Choosing God stabilizes the other areas of our life"“You don’t have to know the particular storm if you know the vehicle to survive."“Christ’s strength is our strategy.”“The more we look at ourselves, the more we become insecure and fade…so fix your eyes on Jesus."During the interview, Lisa mentioned a devotional she is reading, Peace in the Face of Loss by Jill KellyLisa Whittle's BooksPut Your Warrior Boots On: Walking Jesus Strong, Once and for AllI Want God: Forever Changed by the Revival of Your Soul Whole: An Honest Look at the Holes in Your Life—and How to Let God Fill ThemBehind Those Eyes: What's Really Going on Inside the Souls of WomenThe 7 Hardest Things God Asks a Woman to DoLook for Lisa's next book, a devotional, available in Fall 2017…5 Word Prayers: Where to Start When You Don’t Know What to Say to God5 Word Prayers Coloring Book (Lisa's sister did all the art for this book!)Visit lisawhittle.com This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Episode 11 of the Spirituality for Normal People Podcast features and interview with Jennifer DeCombe. Jen is the associate secretary for Canadian Ministries, working at the National Office of the Presbyterian Church in Canada. At the end of the interview, there is a really interesting conversation about inviting non-Christian friends to learn about faith.SOME OF THE TOPICS IN THIS INTERVIEW:What role can institutions or denominations play in the development of Spirituality?The ways congregations are struggling with engaging with following JesusLeadership modelling what they hope for the wider communityDaily Scripture Reading - The enriching of life through regular readingRitualizing Bible study and prayer and linking it to daily activity (like drinking coffee!)Lighting candles at supperPraying the Lord’s Prayer together"Uncomplicated" Spiritual Practices“Resetting” Spiritual Practices - self-discipline and making a decision to go to the Bible.Having grace with yourself when you are in a rut spiritually.Mini-Habits - setting very small goals for connecting with God.Positive Rituals, Habits, and PracticesAn honest conversation about having a spouse who is not a ChristianInviting non-Christian friends to learn more about faithLINKS AND RESOURCESThe Answer to How is Yes by Peter Block - http://amzn.to/2qQ2q6DCommunity: The Structure of Belonging by Peter Block - http://amzn.to/2sw72QKVital Churches Institute (Word, Prayer, Share Resource) - http://vitalchurchesinstitute.com/Life With God Bible - http://amzn.to/2rYbutWRevovare - https://renovare.org/Journal Bibles (with colouring pages!) - http://amzn.to/2sifEKpLauren Winner - http://amzn.to/2rfywLKMini-Habits - http://amzn.to/2svO9NH This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Episode 10 of the podcast features an interview with Rev. Dr. Margaret Mullin. Margaret is the executive director of Winnipeg Inner City Missions and the pastor of Place of Hope Presbyterian Church.  I had the opportunity to do this interview in person at Anishanabe Place of Hope in Winnipeg and Margaret was so gracious and generous in her honest conversation with me.Margaret recently received a Women of Faith Award, which you can read about here.TOPICS COVERED:Challenges of ministry in the Inner City of Winnipeg - 49% Indigenous population, a high percentage of immigrants, amongst the worst poverty in Canada, families who are dealing with generations of povertyThere is a great need to discover hope.Spiritual Practices that we touch on: Silent retreats (without any agenda), What is a Sweat and what is a Sweatlodge?; Journaling; Daily reflection time at the end of the day.Indigenous Practices and SpiritualityThe relationship between Christianity and Indigenous practicesWhat we need to know about Indigenous People in North America.The apology to indigenous people as a first step.The importance of relationship between indigenous and non-indigenous people.The importance of learning the history.What are the best ways to support ministry with First Nations people.SOME QUOTES FROM MARGARET“I pray better at the end of a pen.”“There was no problem with the Irish people bringing their celtic traditions with them in following Jesus. So I don’t understand why it was a problem where my indigenous people could not bring their indigenous spirituality with them when they learned to follow Jesus.”LINKS AND RESOURCESWinnipeg Inner City Missions - http://www.wicm.caCircles for Reconciliation - https://circlesforreconciliation.ca/Reconciliation Canada - http://reconciliationcanada.ca/National Association of Friendship Centres - http://nafc.ca/en/friendship-centres/ This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Episode 9 of the podcast is with Juno-award winning musician, Steve Bell. This interview was such an amazing experience, recorded in Steve's own studio in Winnipeg. Steve was incredibly gracious and generous with his time and his honest sharing. Steve shared a ton in this episode, and you can find all kinds of links on the Spirituality for Normal People Website that reference just some of what Steve spoke about.This podcast episode also features several of Steve's songs, used with his permission.Get the full and very extensive show notes on the Spirituality for Normal People Website This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Listen in as Matthew Brough talks about Psalm 2 and the struggle we sometimes find between love and justice. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Episode 8 of the Spirituality for Normal People Podcast features an interview with United Church minister Robin McGauley. Robin is a metalsmith, makes amazing art and jewelry, and is also a Certified Labyrinth Facilitator, a faculty member of the Expressive Arts program at the Haliburton School of Art and Design, and a graduate of the Jubilee program in spiritual direction.We discuss a quote on Robin's website but never get around to actually saying what it is. Here's the quote from Dark Nights of the Soul by Thomas MooreSome things are best done in the dark, including the transformation of raw material into tools and pieces of art. There is a smith in our soul who works the failures and successes of everyday life into eternal shapes that make us who we are. It's not extraordinary, this dark place of heat and hammering, but rather an unspectacular scene of hard work. You might think of your dark night as such a place and realize the importance of keeping it stocked and fired and dim. Your job is to provide the setting and let the divine smith do his work.  IN THIS INTERVIEW WE TALK ABOUT:The importance of craft, artistry, and creativityClaiming being creative as part of ministryThe Metalsmith as a metaphor how God relates to us in times of difficulty or depression.Walking through times of sadnessThe “doing” and “being” involved in spiritual practicesUsing a long commute for meditation and prayerNoticing God, embodiment, and the incarnationWhat are Labyrinths and how they can be helpful for Spiritual LifeFull show notes, links and resources can be found here This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Episode 7 of the Spirituality for Normal People Podcast features an interview with Rev. Germaine Lovelace, minister of First Presbyterian Church in Kenora, Ontario, Canada. Prior to serving in this small town, Germaine ministered in his home country of Jamaica. Here are some of the topics discussed in the interview:The struggle of Church membership in small town, increasingly secular, contextsMinistering among the poor and the importance of the Church for the poor in small townsThe difference in response to the gospel between Jamaican and Canadian contextsHow serving and connecting with those in need can provide fuel for the spiritual lifeCommunicating in other culturesConsistent prayer life and devotions to stay grounded in GodWhat is means to pray without ceasingPrayer as the first place rather than last resortReading a lot of devotionalsMisconceptions about spirituality - what is it and who is it for?What do you do when you don’t “feel” God’s presence? This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Listen in as Matthew Brough talks about Psalm 1 and the wonderful image of being like a tree planted by streams of water. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

In this 6th episode, Shannon Kiser, speaks about finding God in the midst of a sometimes chaotic and busy life. Shannon is the Director of Training for Fresh Expressions US. She also works supporting the Coaching Network for New Churches in The Presbyterian Church USA and it on on staff at Riverside Presbyterian Church, in Sterling, Virginia.Some of the things we talk about in this episode:staying on track spiritually in the midst of busynessreading the Bible in a year (or, trying to…)leaning into friends who are people of faith to get unstuckSpiritual practices that work for others that don’t work for “me”thinking about where God is in the midst of life, and being responsive to opportunities to talk about God.How being involved in Fresh Expressions and Church Planting has informed Shannon’s spiritual life.How do you leave space for the Spirit when there are already plans for Church or life in place.For links and resources visit the Spirituality for Normal People website This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

Rev. Dr. Ross Lockhart is Associate Professor and Director of the Centre for Missional Leadership at St. Andrew’s Hall.  Ross serves as the Presbyterian Director of Denominational Formation at Vancouver School of Theology as well as an Adjunct Professor of Homiletics at St. Mark’s College, UBC. He also teaches regularly at Regent College. In this interview we discuss:What ministry students need in terms of their spirituality, and the importance of deep prayer practices.A new monastic experiment at St. Andrew’s Hall called The Salt Light House.What do pastors need to do to help people in congregations learn and live out spiritual practices?Embracing a teaching liturgy in worship & why it’s important to explain what is going on in worship.Being in community as a spiritual practice & the problem of isolationWhat it means for all Christians to be gathered as disciples (learners), and sent out as apostles (sent-ones).Family meals, family worship, family movie nightThe importance of prayer, scripture reading, and the connection between spirituality and exerciseThe connection between fatigue, stress, and “spiritual ruts."Resetting yourself with God through Pilgrimage and prayer walks.Links and Resources for this Episode can be found at the Spirituality for Normal People Website This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

This week's episode is a great practical interview with Author, Speaker, Retreat Leader, and Spiritual Director, Jean Wise. Jean blogs regularly at healthyspirituality.org. You should really check out the tons of posts and resources on her page!In the course of the interview we discuss:What it is like to go on a personal spiritual retreat, including how to prepare for and reflect after a silent retreat.The power of journalingWriting a Rule of LifeWhat is Spiritual Direction and how talking to a Spiritual Director is different than talking to the pastor at your Church.How to get out of a spiritual rutThe importance of support systemsFocussing on the Next Step in your spiritual walk.Remembering to pray and apps that can help you pray.The importance of space.Living and thriving in the second half of life - Looking at the spiritual needs in retirement years.For Links and Resources Mentioned in this Episode visit spiritualityfornormalpeople.com/jeanwise This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

What a fantastic interview!The guest on episode three was Matthew Ruttan. He is the minister of Westminister Presbyterian Church in Barrie, Ontario, Canada. He also writes a regular devotional called Up.We had a wide ranging and super-practical conversation. Some of what we discussed:How it can be work to tend to spirituality.What to do when you “don’t feel like it.”The Psalms as being an anchor for spiritualitydoing less, betterHow to engage spiritually when you are so busy and distractedLimited fasting, including a discussion of how fasting works.Simple suggestions for how to practically live out kindness and generosity.Living with integrityThe connections between service and prayerGetting out of a “spiritual rut.”Being consistent with your kids/familyFind resources and links from this episode at http://www.spiritualityfornormalpeople.com/matthewruttan/ This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

I was thrilled to have Theresa McDonald-Lee on this second episode of the Spirituality for Normal People Podcast.Theresa is the co-executive Director of Camp Kintail, a camp of the Presbyterian Church in Canada located on the shores of Lake Huron.Over the course of the conversation, we talked about her spiritual practice of memorizing Psalms and reciting them to her children. She also shared about what it means to live out her faith in front of her kids. As the director of a very busy camp, Theresa has incredible insight into how to help children, teens, and young adults develop in their walk with Jesus.For full show notes with links to resources, visit the Spirituality for Normal People Website. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com

In this first episode of Spirituality for Normal People, your host, Matthew Brough, explains why he's starting the podcast, what the episodes will focus on, and gives a few tidbits about upcoming interviews. This is a preview episode. The real deal, with the very first interview, starts in episode 2!!! This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mattbrough.substack.com