When I graduated from law school in the late 1980s, there was no internet, no email, and fax machines were widely in use.  I used a Dictaphone to generate correspondence and had an assistant to transcribe the tapes.  While working remotely was possible because of the telephone, going into an office was the norm. In the intervening years, the rate of technological change has been truly astounding.  And while the internet, email, and social media have continued that evolution, in my opinion, the explosion of AI in the practice of law has been the most significant change in my lifetime. Never before has it been easier to run a practice as a solo.  The array of tools for research, communication, analysis, and drafting are replacing human labor. I’ve always been interested in technology and while I do try to keep up, technology is not my major. So I’ve invited Colin Levy to talk about the state of the art in legal tech in the practice of law. Colin S. Levy is a lawyer and legal tech author and speaker. Throughout his career, Colin has seen technology as a key driver in improving how legal services are performed. Because his career has spanned industries, he witnessed myriad issues, from a systemic lack of interest in technology to the high cost of legal services barring entry to consumers. Now, his mission is to bridge the gap between the tech world and the legal world, advocating for the ways technology can be a useful tool for the lawyer’s tool belt rather than a fear-inducing obstacle to effective legal work.  Colin is the author of The Legal Tech Ecosystem which discusses the development of the legal tech ecosystem over the past two decades, and how legal technology can help lawyers work more efficiently.  In addition, he is the editor of the Handbook of Legal Tech. A few years ago, I began seeing Colin come up a lot more in my LinkedIn feed and I realized that is was time to sit down with him and pick his brain! In this episode we discuss his overall philosophy about the use of technology in the law, his book, the Legal Tech Ecosystem, the biggest obstacles the legal industry faces when it comes to adopting new technology, and his role at Malbek. Additional Resources Episode 120-Scaling Your Law Firm with AI Episode 107-ChatGPT and Trends in Legal Marketing Technology-with Jared Correia

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In this episode, I speak with my first “threepeat” guest, Lauren Rikleen.  This is Lauren’s third appearance on Counsel to Counsel. She was actually one of my first guests when I launched the show in 2018.  In that episode, we spoke about success strategies for women and the work she has done on that issue.  In the Spring of 2022,I invited Lauren back to talk more about her legal career including working in the field of environmental law as it was just taking off. We also spoke about what inspired her to make a career shift away from the practice of law.  If you haven’t already listened to it, I invite you to go back to episode 81. I met Lauren in the early 1990s when I was at Massachusetts Continuing Legal Education and later had the privilege of sitting on her Standing Committee on Work/Life Balance when she was President of the Boston Bar Association.  I knew soon after I met her that Lauren is someone who is not afraid to speak up when she sees injustice. She is also a person with a big heart who cares not only about making an impact but also about investing in the success of professionals who come from disadvantaged groups. Most importantly, she laughs at most of my jokes and keeps me laughing as well. I invited Lauren back because she is the editor of a new book entitled Her Honor. Her Honor is an inspiring compendium of the lives of 25 female judges including many judges of color.  Most of these  judges were women who overcame significant gender and racial discrimination to get to the bench and all of them are judges who felt a great sense of responsibility to continue the fight for racial and gender equity. I also invited her back to talk about the important work that she is doing through Lawyers Defending American Democracy. Lauren Rikleen is  President of the Rikleen Institute for Strategic Leadership.  She is also the Executive Director of Lawyers Defending American Democracy.  Additional Episodes Episode 87-The Advancement of Women in Law with Elise Holtzman Episode 81-Lauren Rikleen-Rebel with Many Causes

December is a great time to take stock, hit the reset button, and do some planning.   With 2024 around the corner, I’ve been speaking with my clients about setting goals for the new year.    I’m not talking about making New Year’s resolutions.  It's important to understand that resolutions and goals are not the same. Resolutions often lack specificity and a plan of action, making them easy to abandon. On the other hand, setting clear, well-defined goals lays a foundation for measurable progress and sustained success.   In this episode, I’m pleased to welcome Wendy Merrill and Jennifer Forester, two great coaches who also work with the legal community.  Jen and Wendy are also talking right now to their clients about goal setting and they have some great tips to share.   In our conversation, we speak about setting marketing and business development goals for your law practice. But Wendy and Jen also have some thoughts about other areas in your professional and personal life where setting goals can help ensure that you are moving forward in all aspects of your life.  They also discuss creating a “To Don’t” list.   Jennifer Forester helps lawyers avoid random acts of marketing. She’s a business development coach for corporate and consumer attorneys, drawing on 20 years of experience in sales, marketing, and client service roles with big law and boutiques. Jen lives in northern California with her two Boxer dogs and her husband, who is a family law attorney.   Wendy Merrill is a growth strategist, thought leader, and founder of StrategyHorse. StrategyHorse is a consulting firm dedicated to improving law firm profitability through alignment and engagement strategies. For over a decade, Wendy has been working with lawyers and firms to revolutionize the practice of law.  Wendy lives in the DC area.   Additional Resources   Episode 109-Sarah Tetlow on Delegating and Dealing with Distraction Episode 57- Billable Work v. Investment Hours (Dr. Sarah Reiff-Hekking on Time Management)

As attorneys, we share many qualities that make us effective in representing our clients.  Our skepticism, aversion to risk, sense of urgency, competitiveness, and pessimism, can all be good for out clients. But when it comes to building a practice, advancing our careers, or taking on leadership roles, we are more effective when we remove our lawyering hats. As it turns out, these qualities can also have a pernicious effect on our mental health. In this episode of Counsel to Counsel, I share my thoughts on why it is important to stop thinking and acting like a lawyer in social situations. Additional Resources Stop Thinking (and Acting) Like a Lawyer–unless you are giving legal advice! Lawyers Concerned for Lawyers of Massachusetts- free and confidential mental health and substance abuse services for attorneys (check your state bar for similar resources in other states) Episode 70-Shailini George on Doing Well and Being Well in the Law

It is axiomatic that if you want to have a successful legal career, you need to learn your craft. Most areas of legal practice require highly refined analytical abilities coupled with good judgment. For the most part, the first developmental task of any new lawyer is to learn how to practice law. But if you want to advance in your career, you need to be more than a good technician.  Demonstrating executive presence is also key. In this episode, I am pleased to introduce John Buckley, Board Secretary and General Counsel for the North Carolina operations of a multinational mobility infrastructure company.  John talks about how building your executive presence is critical to advancing your career, especially if you want to want to take on leadership responsibilities. In a great conversation, John discusses what executive presence is, who needs it, and what it looks like. He offers his practical tips on how increase your own executive presence. Over the summer, I heard John give a great presentation on this topic for the American Bar Association and I decided I had to have him on the show.  Lucky for me, he accepted my invitation right away. John Buckley has served 3 times as the first in-house counsel for start-ups.  He has 15 years of solo/small law department General Counsel experience.  He began his professional life as an engineer for Duke Power. Additional Resources Ted Lasso (🍎TV+) and Lessons in Leadership and Performance 15 Tips for Leadership Success Episode 118-Paths to Partnership in 2023 and Beyond-With Laura Terrell Episode 103-Ben Sachs on Building High-Performance Legal Teams Episode 87-The Advancement of Women in Law with Elise Holtzman Episode 80-Leadership for Lawyers-Moving Up in Your Law Firm or Corporate Law Department

Artificial Intelligence continues to be a big unknown in the legal space.  It holds tremendous promise for streamlining the delivery of legal services and is already being deployed to expedite discovery, to help draft contracts, to assist with client intake, and to streamline many other functions that once required a lot more human labor.  AI is now being used by some lawyers to help assess the strength of their cases, to expedite legal research, and to draft pleadings. I know that I myself am using ChatGPT to help me prepare for presentations, craft social media posts, and to get quickly up to speed on an array of subjects that are of interest to my clients.  At the same time, the use of AI raises legitimate ethical concerns. It also raises concerns about the need for so many lawyers.  But according to my guest, Hamid Kohan, AI won’t replace lawyers.  It will replace lawyers and other professionals who don’t use AI. Hamid Kohan is a serial entrepreneur, public speaker, and author of the book How to Scale Your Stupid AI Law Firm. Hamid started his career in silicon valley where he served as Director of Business Development of Sun Microsystems, working alongside Eric Schmidt who is today the CEO of Google and Carol Bartz  the CEO of Yahoo. More recently, Hamid saw an opportunity to bring his expertise in technology and business development to the legal world, and he founded Legal Soft Inc. in 2016. In this episode, Hamid will answer some questions about where we are in 2023 with the use of AI in the practice of law. Other Resources Episode 107-ChatGPT and Trends in Legal Marketing Technology-with Jared Correia    

In the past year, I’ve done a number of interviews with lawyers who have transitioned from the traditional practice of law into other corporate or consulting roles. In this episode, I speak with Shawn Hoyt about how to transition into an operations role in a corporate environment. Shawn is someone who has thought a lot about managing his own career and he has a unique perspective on career advancement. Shawn Hoyt is a Vice President at OutSystems.  He began his legal career as a corporate associate at a large law firm. In 1999, I actually recruited him to his first in-house legal job.  Over time, his responsibilities expanded way beyond legal. Shawn brings an unusual perspective on how to get more from your legal career and how to transition into much broader roles. Shawn is a senior legal and operational executive who has led a broad range of teams through periods of both rapid growth and transition. He has deep functional experience running commercial, Deal Desk, pricing, proposal/RFP, contracting, deal operations, vendor management, and legal teams. But he has also managed People, Talent Acquisition, Office Operations, IT, Security, Finance, and Leadership operations through periods of transition.     Related Episodes ·       Episode 114-From Biglaw to In-house to Business Role and Back Again with Carl Berglind ·       Episode 113-From Litigation to Trial Consulting with Marc Diller Episode 112-From Corporate Counsel to Management Consultant-Leveraging Your Legal Career with David Lesser

Achieving partnership was once the goal of most  law firm associates.  The rules were relatively simple.  Work hard, do a good job, and after several years, get rewarded by being elevated. Today the law firms are more complex.  Many associates entering the practice of law do not aspire to become partners, at least not at the first firm they join. And at many firms, there are different paths to success which don’t include equity partnership. So, how should a young associate navigate these new realities? What is the path to partnership in the 2020s and what are other ways to define success in private practice.  How do you get there?  What is the impact of hybrid work arrangements on career advancement and professional development? My guest Laura Terrell has some answers. Laura Terrell is an executive coach with over 25 years of professional experience as a legal and business leader. Prior to launching her coaching practice, Laura was a Special Assistant to the President at the White House, a senior level appointee at the US Department of Justice, an equity partner in two large global law firms, and in-house counsel at a major global consulting and business advisory firm. Laura has led and managed teams of hundreds of people across multiple countries and has been a top advisor for many Fortune 500 and FTSE 100 companies. Her clients come from a wide variety of industries, including law, education, financial services, pharmaceutical, oil & gas, non-profit, health care, and technology. Some of them are senior corporate executives like CEOs and general counsels; others are lawyers and consultants, entrepreneurs, and small business owners, as well as professionals who may be returning to the workforce, making a pivot to a new career, or switching roles mid-career. Laura is my favorite kind of guest because she has such a broad perspective on the legal industry and has experienced legal careers from all sides. Additional Resources   Episode 80-Leadership for Lawyers-Moving Up in Your Law Firm or Corporate Law Department Episode 73-Managing and Advancing Your Law Firm Career    

Job interviews can cause a lot of stress.  Over the years, I’ve come to appreciate that this is true whether you are the candidate or the interviewer. The stakes can feel high.  Both sides are trying to assess whether they are right for each other.  The candidate may be imagining that they are interviewing for their dream job. They may be worried about the competition. The interviewer may have a desperate need to fill a role and there are few candidates with the right mix of skills and personality.  Or worse, they made a bad hire and they are now trying to fix the problem. But just like dating, neither side will really know what it is like to be married until they are actually living together. So what are some ways that candidates and employers can prepare for a good interview?  What can candidates and interviewers do to make themselves more attractive to each other? How can candidates and employers get the information they need to make an informed decision about whether to extend an offer or accept an offer? In this episode, I have invited two seasoned recruiters who share their collective wisdom.  Both are members of the in-house legal recruiting team at the search firm Major Lindsey and Africa. Amy Katz is a returning guest on Counsel to Counsel.  Amy recently rejoined the team at Major Lindsey after spending a year recruiting in-house for her old employer Outside GC.  I last spoke to Amy about her journey from big law to in-house to OutsideGC, and finally into recruiting. Amy’s career experience includes over 25 years as a practicing employment attorney. Prior to joining MLA the first time, Amy was a Member at Outside GC, advising employers on a wide range of employment law matters, conducting workplace and academic investigations, and designing and delivering compliance training. Before that, she served as senior employment counsel for Genzyme Corporation. Today, she focuses on recruiting general counsel and other in-house attorneys in a wide range of industries, most notably life sciences and technology. My second guest is Amy’s colleague, Nancy Reiner who spent over 20 years in private practice including stints at two major firms.  She last served as a partner at Brown Rudnick where she worked on business, environmental and public interest litigation. Nancy has been in the legal search business since 2008. Today she is the leader of the Boston In-House Counsel Recruiting team for MLA where she focuses on placement of general counsel and other in-house counsel for public companies and private businesses, major global corporations and disruptive start-ups, hospital and other healthcare systems, and colleges and universities. Nancy has placed close to 100 senior-level leaders in corporate legal departments throughout New England and across the country. Additional Resources Tips for a Successful Job Interview-Live and Virtual Episode 5-Nailing the Job Interview Episode 91-Transitioning Your Legal Career to In-house and Beyond With Amy Katz  

 The Massachusetts Lawyers Weekly Reader Rankings Awards are out, and I’m pleased to report that once again, I did very well. This year I came in first for Lawyer Outplacement and for Business Development Coach.  I also came in second for Executive Coaching.  So the subject of awards is top of mind for me this week. I’m happy to be in the winner’s circle and very thankful for the great clients and colleagues who took the time to support me. But do awards really matter?  Listen in to this episode of Counsel to Counsel for my analysis.

It has been over a year since I finally left the legal recruiting business to focus exclusively on coaching.  Since the market has changed a lot since early 2022, I thought this would be a good time to invite someone who is still in the business to talk about the state of legal hiring.  I also thought this would be a good time to revisit the topic of legal recruiting in general and who can benefit from working with a recruiter. Emily Witt is a legal recruiter with over 20 years of experience. She began her career as an in-house recruiter for Wachtell, Lipton in New York. In 2016, she moved over to the agency side and today, she places attorneys in both law firm and in-house positions.  In particular, she enjoys focusing on women's advancement in both tech and healthcare. Emily hosts the podcast, Beyond the Legal Lens, that helps open the door to jobs in tech and health law. She also has a platform, the Advocate's Mic, that highlights mission-driven attorneys who are creating impactful initiatives in their communities. Emily shares her wisdom on the state of legal hiring in 2023 and offers some tips about working with a recruiter.

In the last two episodes of Counsel to Counsel, I spoke with a lawyer who left corporate practice for management consulting and a trial lawyer who has built a trial consulting business but continues to try cases. In this episode, I speak with a corporate lawyer who cut his teeth at international law firms, went in-house, moved into a business role, and is back again at an international law firm. Carl Berglind is a Shareholder with Greenberg Traurig’s Health Care & FDA group. He is based in Denver, Colorado. He focuses his practice on M&A and other complex transactions in the healthcare industry,  representing both sellers and investors. In his business roles, Carl served as the CEO of an early stage animal health / AgTech company.  He was also VP of M&A of a private equity backed ophthalmology platform, and Senior Vice President of Strategic Transactions at a Fortune 500 diversified health care services company. Carl was born in Sweden, and grew up in New York, Copenhagen, and Brussels. He speaks fluent Swedish and conversationally fluent French and Danish. He uses his background by working with international clients in addition to his domestic health care transactional practice. Additional Resources Episode 113-From Litigation to Trial Consulting with Marc Diller Episode 112-From Corporate Counsel to Management Consultant-Leveraging Your Legal Career with David Lesser Episode 96-David Abromowitz-Practicing Law in the Public Interest at an AmLaw200 Firm

In Episode 112 of Counsel to Counsel, I spoke with David Lesser, a corporate lawyer who transitioned into management consulting and quit his day job as a corporate lawyer.  In this episode, I speak with a litigator who has transitioned into jury and trial consulting while keeping his day job as a litigator. Marc Diller is the managing partner of Diller Law, LLP. He concentrates his practice on plaintiff side wrongful death and catastrophic bodily injury cases. As a partner with Total Trial Solutions in Massachusetts, he also acts as a trial consultant to other well-respected trial attorneys.  Marc serves on the Executive Committee for the Massachusetts Academy of Trial Attorney and as chair of the Judicial Administration Section Council of the Massachusetts Bar Association.  He has been involved in some of the largest jury verdicts in the state of Massachusetts. Related Episodes Episode 112-From Corporate Counsel to Management Consultant-Leveraging Your Legal Career with David Lesser Episode 104-Freelance Lawyering and Returning to Work with Montage Legal Episode 56-Practicing Law with a Side Hustle (“Mindful Return”)

When lawyers approach me to speak about their careers, one question they often ask is “what else can I do with my law degree”. The answer to that question is of course complex.  As lawyers, we are trained to spot legal issues, evaluate risk, document deals, and litigate disputes.  Most employers are not actively recruiting lawyers to do anything other than practice law. But that is not to say that lawyers are destined to be lawyers for eternity.  As a lawyer, you do develop transferable skills that can make you valuable in other ways. The challenge, of course, is to figure out what that transition should look like and how you can best execute a job search when your resume speaks largely to the legal work you have done. One approach to find a bridge. Look for opportunities in an industry that you are already familiar with. Another approach is to take the experience you have in doing certain types of work and find something that leverages that experience. That is what my guest, David Lesser, did after a long and successful career as a corporate and finance attorney. David spent 17 years practicing in several large firms; but for the last several decades, he has run his own business consulting firm.  He and I discuss how he made that transition, what were some of the challenges, what lessons he took from the practice of law, and what advice he has for anyone thinking of moving out of private practice. David Lesser is the founder and managing partner of the Klarian Capital Group in Chicago. He provides an array of management consulting services to small and middle market companies.  He helps his clients  with operational, financial, and strategic planning issues. I recently met Dave at a meeting of our ProVisors networking group and we soon discovered that we both grew up in the same town on Long Island. We also figured out that he was the water polo coach of one of the kids in my grade.  More importantly, I was intrigued by the fact that he actually enjoyed being a lawyer when he left the practice.  He didn’t run from the law. Addition Resources Episode 104-Freelance Lawyering and Returning to Work with Montage Legal Episode 103-Ben Sachs on Building High-Performance Legal Teams Episode 56-Practicing Law with a Side Hustle (“Mindful Return”)

Relationship building is the key to growing your practice. But who should you be focusing on when it comes to relationship building?  In this episode, Steve Seckler explains how the acronym C.H.I.L.L. can help you to make smart choices in finding the "right" professional relationships to cultivate. Additional Resources Episode 100-Word of Mouth Marketing with Michael Katz Episode 85-Peristence, Follow-Up, and Avoiding Fatal Attraction-Tips for Building Your Business Relationships Inexpensive Ways to Build Business Relationships

Like most lawyers, I went to law school because I wanted to enter an honorable profession.  I wanted to have a career where the emphasis is on intellect and not on business.  Not long after graduation, I realized that law IS a business and if you want to be successful, being a great lawyer is not enough.  You need to learn how to run your practice efficiently.  You need to learn how to manage people. And you need to learn how to sell your services.  If you can master those skills, your chances of success will greatly increase. As I’ve noted many times on this program, sales is one area where many of us feel uncomfortable.  As attorneys, we are supposed to be above that.  People should hire us because we are good at what we do.   In reality, that is not the way the world works.  Just like practicing law requires a unique set of skills, so does selling our services. In this episode of Counsel to Counsel, Dominic and I discuss the business of law and some of the ways we can be more successful in our sales process. Dominic Grew is the Founder & Owner of Elevate Business Coaching, LLC.  He is an expert in business management and business development.  Prior to opening Elevate, he spent more than 25 years working internationally in the insurance and investment management sectors.  As a former COO for Global Business Development, he learned how to scale to operational excellence and to prioritize and execute growth initiatives for complex and competing practice areas.  Today, as Founder of Elevate Business Coaching, he partners with law firms and their lawyers to build, grow, and manage thriving practices.   Dominic’s tools of choice are coaching, training and facilitation.  He prides himself on bringing an outside perspective to the business of law, teaching attorneys to work smarter rather than harder to accomplish their business goals.  Additional Resources   Episode 100-Word of Mouth Marketing with Michael Katz Episode 74-Turning Business Conversations into Business  

This episode was recorded during Well-Being Week in Law 2023.  In Massachusetts and around the country, there are a lot of programs being offered to get lawyers thinking about the many mental health challenges that are widespread in the legal community.  This particular week was designated to align with Mental Health Awareness Month which is May, and many organizations ran workshops and gatherings to talk about depression, substance abuse, anxiety, stress and a host of other topics. Underlying many of these issues is having too much to do and too little time to get it done.  Many lawyers need tools for effectively managing their time and dealing with overwhelm.  In this episode of Counsel to Counsel, I spoke with Sarah Tetlow of Firm Focus who gave some great tips on delegation, dealing with interruptions, and generally managing our time more effectively. Sarah is an expert on the subject. Sarah is an experienced productivity consultant, trainer, and international speaker for attorneys and other busy professionals. Through one-on-one consulting, strategic planning, workshops, and group trainings, Sarah works with attorneys, law firms, and busy professionals to find personalized ways in which to manage one’s day with a proactive and focused approach. Sarah is also the creator of the ARTT® Email Productivity system and course which she discussed in this episode. Through Sarah’s passion for focused work and her unique and sympathetic coaching approach, she helps her clients change their behavior and reduce their stress and anxiety. Additional Resources Episode 97-What Law Firms Can Learn From Corporate America About Well-Being Episode 70-Shailini George on Doing Well and Being Well in the Law Episode 64-Building Your Practice and Your Management Skills with Mindful Communication  Episode 57- Billable Work v. Investment Hours (Dr. Sarah Reiff-Hekking on Time Management)  Episode 37-Managing Anxiety in a Time of Crisis

In this Episode of Counsel to Counsel, I'm bringing you the feed from Steve Fretzin's great podcast, Be That Lawyer. Steve is an outstanding business development coach for attorneys. He is an author and friend who has taught me a lot about BD coaching. In this episode, Steve interviews me about why coaching can be a great tool to help lawyers achieve higher levels of career satisfaction and marketing success.  I talk about one of my favorite topics: why lawyers need to wear a different hat when they are not giving out legal advice (and why that can be hard for some attorneys.) Steve has been a guest on Counsel to Counsel and this is my second time as a guest on Be That Lawyer. Steve has also been great about inviting me to participate on his panel of attorney coaches called Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner. He is a practitioner of co-opetition and very generous with his time. Additional Episodes Steve Seckler: Coaching to the Next Level (on Be That Lawyer) Episode 44-Getting the Most from Networking Meetings and Troikas (Steve Fretzin on Counsel to Counsel)  

 I don’t spend a lot of time talking about technology on this podcast. But I use technology all the time to manage my business and to increase my marketing efficiency. In fact technology is a critical reason why I am able to operate as a solo and while I don’t have to outsource much of my own marketing. While I haven’t focused on technology on Counsel to Counsel, my interest in technology is actually high. And when the next shiny object comes into my consciousness, I’m often intrigued. In general, I’m not an early adopter. I’d rather let others do the beta testing.  But in the four months since we heard about ChatGPT, I’ve been meaning to give it a try.  And this month I finally did.  And what I discovered blew me away. So I figured this was a good time to invite back Jared Correia, a legal tech guru who gave me my start in podcasting 5 years ago.  Jared was last on Counsel to Counsel in 2020 when he spoke about podcasting as a marketing tool. You can hear him on Episode 34. Jared has also been kind enough to have me on both of his great podcasts, The Legal Toolkit which is sponsored by the Legal Talk Network, and the Non-eventcast Podcast hosted by Above the Law. Jared Correia is the founder & CEO of Red Cave Law Firm Consulting, which provides business management consulting to attorneys directly, and through partnerships with bar associations.  He is also the cofounder & COO of Gideon Software, a technology company that offers chat-based intake, qualification, scheduling and document assembly services to law firms. And he was a pioneer in legal podcasting. Jared is all about helping  law firms improve their operations and grow their businesses.  Part of that includes helping lawyers be more effective in leveraging technology.  He’s been a huge help to me as well when I have technology questions. Today, Jared will give a quick overview of ChatGPT and how it can help you streamline your marketing.  And while I have him here, I’m going to pick Jared’s brain about other marketing.  So today will be a high level overview of the tools that you should have to ensure marketing success.  You should listen to the Non-Eventcast if you want to get a lot more depth. Additional Episodes Episode 34-Podcasting as a Legal Marketing Tool -Jared Correia on Counsel to Counsel How Coaching Can Help Attorneys Increase Career Satisfaction-Stephen Seckler on the Legal Toolkit Referral Marketing and Marketing Technology-Stephen Seckler on the ATL’s Non-Eventcast

Coaching is a field that has exploded since I graduated from law school in the late 1980s.  There are now life coaches, business coaches, executive coaches, marketing coaches, career coaches, and coaches like me who borrow a little from each.  Coaching is about achieving your goals and moving past roadblocks that are getting in the way of your success. A good coach is a sounding board and holds you accountable to your stated goals.  But not every coach uses the same tools or focuses on the same things. My own focus is helping lawyers to stop thinking like a lawyer when they are not giving legal advice. In this episode, I speak with a career leadership coach who takes a different approach from my own.  She talks about her approach to attorney coaching, why attorneys make good clients, and how she helps lawyers manage their energy to move towards their goals. Emily Hirsekorn is a certified career leadership coach who works with attorneys. She speaks regularly on authentic leadership, work-life balance, career fulfillment, confidence, and energy management. After earning her JD, she represented educational institutions in employment law and special education matters. She then left the practice to conduct anti-bias education, and soon after, moved into law school career development at the University of San Diego where she worked for six years.  In 2020 Emily launched her coaching business and now lives in her hometown of Kansas City with her husband, two children, and two rescue pups She is passionate about disrupting outdated legal industry norms, advancing women in male-dominated industries, anti-bias education, and animal rescue. Additional Resources Energy Leadership Assessment (mentioned in the episode) Emily Hirsekorn's Career Accelerator for Lawyers Who Lead

In this episode, I'm very pleased to welcome back Kevin Agnew.  I spoke with Kevin just about a year ago about his career path.  We talked about the career services program he runs at one of the largest firms in the world, and he shared many pearls of wisdom for lawyers who are navigating their careers in private practice. If you haven’t heard it, you may want to go back and listen to Episode 83 first. Kevin Agnew is Director of Attorney Career Services at Latham and Watkins, an international law firm with almost 3000 lawyers. He runs the firm's career design program and oversees the global Alumni Program. In a confidential coaching environment. He works with attorneys on the full range of career issues.  Kevin created the program and now offers services to attorneys at the firm, firm alumni, and friends of the firm. In this episode, we continue the conversation we started and focus more on what success looks like in private practice. Additional Resources Episode 83-Career Services at Latham & Watkins-How One Law Firm is Creating New Models for Success Episode 91-Transitioning Your Legal Career to In-house and Beyond With Amy Katz Take Steve Seckler's career assessment and sign up for a complimentary discovery session Career Paths: Mapping Out Your Future (Program Notes from a Boston Bar Association Panel Discussion)    

I really enjoy stories about lawyers who have taken their careers on a less traditional path. I especially enjoy speaking with lawyers who have done some very unlawyerly and more entrepreneurial things. At the same time, I’m always looking for guests who can speak to my audience about alternative ways to practice, particularly when it involves better work life balance. My guest in this episode, Erin Giglia,  has deep knowledge about both subjects.   Erin practiced at several major firms in Southern California until she co-founded Montage Legal Group in 2009. Montage Legal Group is a nationwide network of experienced contract/freelance attorneys with impressive credentials from top law schools and training in prestigious law firms. Montage’s attorneys assist law firms with temporary and substantive legal projects on an hourly basis, providing a cost-effective way to manage case overflow. Erin talks about building her business. She also discusses how lawyers, particularly women, can get back into the work force after an extended break.

In this episode, I speak with Ben Sachs of the Landing Group.    Ben is the author of a terrific new book entitled: All Rise-Practical Tools for Building High-performance Legal Teams. In the conclusion of the book Ben writes:  For many attorneys, the legal work is their comfort zone.  They would rather be consumed by case law, deal papers, policy memos, or other traditional billable tasks then have to navigate a tricky issue of team dynamics or dysfunction. In this episode, Ben addresses those issues head on and why good leaders need to change these attitudes.  He also talks about his own alternative legal career. Ben Sachs is President of The Landing Group.  He is an expert in management, strategy, negotiation, and communication. He serves on the teaching faculty of the University of Virginia School of Law, offering courses on negotiation, public speaking, and legal ethics. Ben also provides consulting and training services for government and private sector organizations in the United States and internationally. His past clients cover a wide range of industries, from law firms to telecommunications providers to retail and more. Additional Resources 15 Tips For Leadership Success Episode 80-Leadership for Lawyers-Moving Up in Your Law Firm or Corporate Law Department Episode 89-Carol Marzouk-The Executive Lion Tamer

In this episode, I'm coming off of a string of marketing successes. Therefore, instead of interviewing someone else, I've decided to share my experiences. The Reader's Digest version is that most lawyers who achieve marketing success do so through a variety of channels. The important thing is to choose the channels where you'll find your clients and referral sources. But it is equally important to choose activities that you like. In the end, you won't be able to predict which ones will work and which ones won't.  And that is to be expected. Related Episodes Episode 100-Word of Mouth Marketing with Michael Katz Episode 79-Digital Marketing for Your Law Firm: Getting the Right Mix Episode 74-Turning Business Conversations into Business Episode 63-LinkedIn in 30 Minutes (with Kristyn Brophy) Episode 44-Getting the Most from Networking Meetings and Troikas

When I work with lawyers who are doing career exploration, I always encourage them to have informational interviews with attorneys who can give them some perspective.  The lawyers who have the best career perspective are attorneys who have varied work experience.  My guest, Linda Ricci, is an attorney who has A LOT of that perspective. Linda Ricci is a partner with the law firm Greenberg Traurig which she joined in the Spring of 2021.  Prior to that, she spent 15 years as an Assistant United States Attorney in Boston. Linda began her legal career with two federal court clerkships, worked for two other major law firms, and spent two years as in-house counsel prior to joining the US Attorney’s office. Today, she focuses her practice on white collar criminal defense, including matters related to corporate compliance, internal investigations, and government investigations. I invited Linda to talk about the career lessons she has learned working in several public sector jobs, three different law firms, and a stint in-house. Additional Resources Episode 78-Transitioning to General Counsel-Career Lessons from a Litigator Episode 50-A Late Career Shift to Public Service Episode 38-Breaking the Glass Ceiling on a Part-time Schedule

In this episode, Michael Katz, returns to Counsel to Counsel after a 3 year hiatus. In 2019, Michael and I spoke about how to use newsletters as an effective marketing tool. Check out Episode 29 of this podcast. Newsletters have only grown in value, especially during the pandemic when in-person marketing went away. As many of us have resumed in-person activities, however, live relationship building is moving back to center stage. Of course it never truly went away and Zoom made sure of that. But more than ever, we now have the chance to build strong referral relationships by participating in activities that we enjoy. One of the challenges of relationship building is how to stay top of mind so that our prospective clients and referral sources will think of us when they hear about an opportunity that is right for us. If you are like me, it is easy to deliver a lengthy discourse when someone asks what you do. In all likelihood, you do a lot of things. And some of those things are actually hard to explain. While a lengthy discourse may be effective when you are making a closing argument in a $200 million dollar theft of trade secrets case, it’s probably not effective for generating referrals. So how do you make a lasting impression on someone so they will tell someone else to call you? Michael Katz has some great tips on that very subject. Michael Katz is an award-winning humorist and former corporate marketer. His company is Blue Penguin Development and he is founder and Chief Penguin. Michael specializes in coaching professional service firms and solos in improving their marketing. Since launching Blue Penguin in 2000, Michael has been quoted in The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, Business Week Online, Bloomberg TV, Forbes.com, Inc.com, USA Today, and other national and local media. He is the author of four books and over the past 20+ years has published more than 500 issues of “The Likeable Expert Gazette,” a twice-monthly email newsletter and podcast with 6,000 passionate subscribers in over 40 countries around the world. And he is someone I have learned a lot from through our business networking group ProVisors. Additional Resources Episode 29-How Newsletters Can Set You Apart From the Competition Episode 74-Turning Business Conversations into Business Episode 44-Getting the Most From Networking Meetings and Troikas Making Introductions that Generate Referrals      

The pandemic was a mixed bag for me. As some of my listeners know, both of my parents died of COVID in April 2020. While that was very sad, it wasn’t tragic. My dad was 95, my mom was 94, neither suffered, and neither knew the other one was gone. At the same time, the lockdown created some great new opportunities to expand my network both here in New England and throughout the country. Zoom existed long before COVID. But going on-line in March of 2020 dramatically expanded my professional connections. Through my ProVisors business network, I met hundreds of great professionals in every corner of the United States. I now coach clients in New England, New York, Texas, South Carolina, Chicago, California, and Seattle. Beyond that, I’ve also met some other great people thanks to virtual platforms including today’s guest Rudy Rivera. Rudy is Chief International Counsel at Fidelity National Financial. He has extensive international litigation and business experience in Latin America, Europe, and Asia. I reached out to Rudy after listening in on one of his live streaming presentations. The subject was leadership and Rudy and his guest did a great job of offering some very practical advice. I reached out to Rudy afterwards to thank him, and he responded right away. He suggested that we speak and soon after we did. Since that time, I have listened in on a number of Rudy’s shows, Conversations With Rudy Rivera, and we have spoken about his career, his humble beginnings, and what it is like to manage counsel around the globe. I thought his story would be of great interest to my audience. In this episode, Rudy tells his story and offers up some great career advice for younger lawyers.

IMHO, the two most important words in the English language are "Thank You". As lawyers, we can be stingy in offering thanks to our colleagues and the people who support our work.  In addition, as we enter the holiday season and are thinking about showing more gratitude, now is a great time to start thinking about the changes we'd like to make in the coming year. In this special addition of Counsel to Counsel, I share my thoughts for Thanksgiving in the run up to 2023.

The subject of attorney well-being is a topic of conversation at most major law firms today.  Several years ago, the Report of the Task Force on Lawyer Well-Being was issued by the American Bar Association, Conference of Chief Judges, and other legal organizations.  It called well-being an essential element of a lawyer’s duty of competence. More recently, Law.com and ALM Intelligence  conducted a survey of lawyers and staff members, mostly from large firms, has found that anxiety, depression, and isolation remain at concerning levels.  And about 74% of the respondents thought that their work environment  contributed to their mental health issues. When asked about the factors  that had a negative impact on mental health, top concerns were always  being on call, billable hour pressure, client demands, lack of sleep, and lean staffing. In January of 2020, The Supreme Judicial Court of Massachusetts created a Standing Committee on Lawyer Well-Being.  And there are similar initiatives in jurisdictions all over the United States. But what are the core issues that these committees are addressing?  Why are businesses paying attention to the subject? How are these issues playing out in a corporate environment and what can the legal community learn from corporate America. Mari Ryan has thought a lot about well-being in the workplace and while her focus is not the legal community per se, she has worked with companies in many industries to address these issues. Mari Ryan is a workplace well-being strategist, speaker, and award-winning author. Mari works with organizations to create workplaces where both the people and the business thrive. Mari is the author of award-winning book The Thriving Hive: How People-Centric Workplaces Ignite Engagement and Fuel Results. Additional Resources Episode 70-Shailini George on Doing Well and Being Well in the Law Episode 64-Building Your Practice and Your Management Skills with Mindful Communication Episode 33-Mindfulness, Biofeedback and the Practice of Law Massachusetts SJC Standing Committee on Lawyer Well Being (there are a lot of other resources on this site)

Is it possible to practice in the public interest at a major law firm?  How can you build a legal career working on complex commercial real estate deals while serving a higher purpose?  David Abromowitz has been doing that for almost 40 years. David Abromowitz is a real estate attorney who is nationally known for his work on complex development and finance deals.  A major focus of his practice has been on affordable housing and economic development.  He also has significant experience in workforce development issues supporting youth opportunities. David is a longtime partner in the law firm Goulston & Storrs, where he headed up the firm's real estate group and its pro bono committee. For the past dozen years he has been moving more into the non-profit and political realm. Most recently, David launched the New Power Project, a national effort supporting people who’ve grown up in underserved communities run for local and district elective office. Before that he served six years as Chief Public Policy Officer at YouthBuild USA. He is a past chair and founding member of both the Lawyers’ Clearinghouse on Affordable Housing and Homelessness and of the American Bar Association’s Forum Committee on Affordable Housing and Community Development.  He also served six years on the board of Mass Development, the Commonwealth’s economic development agency. And he recently wrote his first novel! Additional Resources Episode 21-Creating a Mission Driven Law Practice  Episode 41-Using Pro Bono to Build Your Skills and Enhance Your Career Satisfaction in a Time of Crisis

In the 25 years that I’ve been coaching attorneys, one of the common themes I hear is the desire to go in-house. We have spoken a number of times on this podcast about that. Conventional wisdom says that going in-house means becoming more of a generalist and many of the in-house counsel I have interviewed have found that their work broadened a lot once they left private practice. My guest in this episode, Misty Leon, took a different path. She has parlayed a niche practice into a great in-house role.  In this interview, we talk about her path into a corporate law department, what it is like to be in a compliance role in a rapidly changing legal environment, and how her life has changed since leaving private practice. What I love about having the chance to talk to Misty is that we have only met virtually. But since the pandemic, our paths have crossed many times on LinkedIn, on webinars, and in ways that would never have happened since Zoom took over the world. Misty Leon is legal counsel to Texas Instruments in Dallas.  She is a benefits attorney with 20 years of experience working with employer-sponsored retirement plans, health plans, and executive compensation plans. In 2021, she transitioned from being a partner at an employee benefits boutique firm to an in-house role. She also worked for several large law firms early in my career, and has represented both public and private employers, including governmental entities. Additional Resources Episode 91-Transitioning Your Legal Career to In-house and Beyond With Amy Katz Episode 78-Transitioning to General Counsel-Career Lessons from a Litigator Episode 66-Going In-house with David Sclar What I've Learned as In-House Counsel Frequently Asked Questions About Going In-House Episode 49-Adapting to Change, Pivoting to In-house and DEI in the Legal Profession Episode 39-An In-house Career in the Life Sciences

One of the things I love most about doing this podcast is that I get to meet really interesting people and interview them. My guest in this episode takes the meaning of “interesting” to a whole new level. Susan Ibitz is a face reading profiler who  describes herself as a Human Behavior Hacker.  Through her company, Human Behavior Lab, Susan has trained, consulted, and worked with lawyers, politicians, law enforcement, managers, sales teams, and literally anyone who wants to be more effective in reading body language. She was trained in profiling by the CIA, FBI, U.S Military, and international militaries.  She is certified as a Level III Hostage Negotiator and has many other certifications to her name.  Susan’s mission is to reach, teach, and train others to unlock the science behind human behavior.  She has worked with police departments, trial lawyers, sales teams, governments, and corporations as well as many other institutions.  She helps her clients utilize profiling skills to increase sales, team productivity, employee engagement, team building, strategy, effective communication, marketing, and growth.  She is fluent in Spanish, Portuguese, English, and most importantly, body language, micro-expressions,  linguistic forensic analysis, and face reading with a mask or without. She has worked in the U.S., South America, Mexico, Europe, and the Caribbean.  In this episode, Susan talks about her work and offers us some practical tips that we can use to be more effective in and out of the courtroom as well as in leadership roles and in marketing our legal services.

Retirement today is very different than it was 50 years ago. People are living longer, and lawyers, like many other knowledge workers, have the ability to work well into their 60s, 70s and beyond. Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg was productive well into her late 80s. But for many lawyers, continuing to work is a default option rather than something that has been carefully planned out. Part of the reason is that lawyers have very strong professional identities. Part of the reason is finances.     As high-income earners, many lawyers fear that they won’t have enough money to last them throughout retirement. That fear needs to be addressed before decisions can be made.  From my perspective as a career coach, I see lawyers creating meaningful and productive “third chapters” of their lives. A crucial part of this is to look at finances.  Given how long many Americans are now living, taking the time to prepare to finance your possibly lengthy retirement is essential in making a successful career transition. Finances should really be the first step in any transition planning.  If you are healthy, it can be an exciting time of life.  Figuring out how you will make it all work financially is an important first step. My guest,  has written a new book on that very subject.  In this episode, we discuss her book and the financial considerations for lawyers who are planning for their next stage of life. Julie Jason is the author of The Discerning Investor: Personal Portfolio Management In Retirement For Lawyers (and Their Clients). Julie is an investment manager who started out on Wall Street as a lawyer. Thirty years ago, she founded her own Investment Counsel firm—Jackson, Grant, Investment Advisers, Inc. of Stamford, CT, a fiduciary boutique—where her team manages personal portfolios for high-net-worth families. She writes and speaks frequently on financial literacy and related topics .  I met Julie while serving on a panel put together by the  Senior Lawyers Division of the American Bar Association.  Other Resources Succession Planning for Your Career: What Comes Next? Episode 67-Retirement By Design (for Lawyers)

The pandemic put a damper on international travel.  It also reduced the opportunities for American lawyers to practice law overseas.  But as travel has returned, the demand for legal talent trained in the United States has never been stronger in the Far East. One country where the need is particularly strong is Japan. So what does it mean to practice in Japan? How do you find opportunities? What are some of the cultural differences and what do lawyers who are thinking about an international adventure need to know? My guest, Catherine O'Connell, has practiced law in Japan for over 20 years and has a lot of the answers. Catherine O’Connell is originally from New Zealand, and has worked for major firms in New Zealand, Tokyo and London. She has held several in-house positions for well know Japanese companies. Today, she has her own boutique law firm in Tokyo where she serves as a fractional lawyer providing on demand legal services to big and small companies. She also serves as an outside general counsel on retainer. She is the first foreign female lawyer to launch a firm in Tokyo. Catherine has won numerous awards and as host of the award winning Lawyer On Air Podcast. In the episode, Catherine discusses her experience in assimilating into the Japanese legal community.  We also be talk about lessons she has learned from producing her own podcast.

Over the last 25 years, I’ve spoken to many lawyers who have expressed interest in going in-house.  When I graduated from law school in the late 1980s, opportunities to work in a corporate environment were more limited.  Today, there are many more lawyers working in-house. So what has changed?  And more importantly, what does it mean to leave behind a law firm job.  Since most in-house jobs are no guarantee of lifetime employment, how should lawyers position themselves for future career success after they shift their careers in-house? My guest, Amy Katz,  is someone whose career I’ve been following for over 20 years.  She began her career in a large firm, but has experience working for a major biotech company, going back into private practice, and more recently, has been working in non-practicing roles as a recruiter. Today, Amy is the Chief Talent Officer for Outside GC. Prior to rejoining Outside GC she did in-house recruiting for Major, Lindsey & Africa where she focused on recruiting general counsel and other in-house attorneys in a wide range of industries, most notably life sciences and technology. Amy’s career experience also includes over 25 years as a practicing employment attorney. Prior to joining MLA, Amy was a Member at Outside GC, advising employers on a wide range of employment law matters, conducting workplace and academic investigations, and designing and delivering compliance training. Before that, she served as senior employment counsel for Genzyme Corporation. Amy began her legal career in the employment law department of the Boston law firm Foley Hoag LLP.  Most importantly, she is someone who I consider a friend. In this episode, Amy shares her insights about moving from private practice to in-house to a virtual law firm and finally into legal recruiting. Additional Resources Episode 86-Career and Life Lessons from Jim Durham-A Pioneer in Legal Marketing Episode 78-Transitioning to General Counsel-Career Lessons from a Litigator Episode 66-Going In-house with David Sclar (see show notes for additional resources)

In the legal profession, AmLaw100 law firms get most of the attention.  With eye popping salaries now being given to first year associates, it is easy to conclude that getting one of these jobs means you are at the pinnacle of the legal profession. While starting your career at a major firm has a lot advantages salary, and otherwise, the open secret is that many lawyers who work at these firms will end up leaving by the time they are midlevel associates. Some will go in-house, some will go to the public sector, and others will go to smaller firms. I’ve spoken to many lawyers who have stayed and continue to have fulfilling careers. But in my experience, many of these lawyers are much happier after they leave.  And the happiest lawyers are attorneys who have gone in-house or who have launched their own practice. In this episode, we talk about the latter. The decision to open your own practice is a daunting one. Lawyers as a group are somewhat risk averse. But it has never been easier to operate on your own or in a small partnership. Technology has made that so much easier. And I can say as a solo entrepreneur myself, that the rewards are many. Setting up your own shop requires a new mindset. Launching the practice is the first hurdle. But at some point, most lawyers want to grow or at least make their firms more profitable. Part of that is finding ways to generate more revenue. But another big part of that is finding ways to operate with greater efficiency.  Setting up better systems is important as companies grow and law firms are no different. In a great conversation, Mark Rockwell,talks about how to do that. Coach Rockwell, works with lawyers who are frustrated by their inability to scale up and become more profitable. He helps them create their vision, and implement an operating platform that builds healthy, thriving law firms. He is a graduate of Willamette University College of Law, and Northwestern University, Kellogg School of Management. Mark is both an attorney and entrepreneur. He has started and grown several companies during his career, and he has struggled with the same frustrations and setbacks all lawyers and business owners experience.

In law school, we learn how to think like a lawyer.  We develop the analytical skills we need to analyze a case, draft documents, research legal issues and provide sound legal advice to our clients.  But like many  professionals,  we don't spend a lot of time studying the human  component of the practice of law. While some of us come to the practice with strong interpersonal skills,  many of us  have not been in a position to lead prior to entering the profession.  As lawyers move up the ranks  this can create problems. Lawyers who are individual contributors  may provide outstanding legal services to their clients.  But as they move into leadership roles in their firms,  they need a different set of skills.  And if they don’t have those skills, that can create a bad culture. Moreover, a bad work environment  can cause numerous problems for a law firm.  For starters, it can cause turnover which can be costly. As someone who spent many years earning a living in the recruiting business,  I know how much it can cost to replace a good lawyer. So what can law firms do?  To address some of the behaviors which are impeding the success  of their firm,  my guest,  Carol Marzouk, has some answers Carol is CEO and Chief Executive Lion Tamer for Leadership ‘N Soul. Her business is all about transforming behavior, relationships, and culture in the workplace. She founded it on the principle that nobody has to endure a toxic boss, toxic employees, or a toxic workplace. In this episode, Carol shares some tips for how to improve the culture, your firm and how to lead more effectively. I met Carol through my ProVisors business network, and I can say with certainty that she is someone who was very insightful and very generous with her time.  She is also a pleasure to speak to. Listen in for a great conversation about how to deal with toxicity in the workplace.  Whether you work with toxic people or recognize some of those behaviors in yourself, Carol has some great advice.

If you listen to this podcast or spend any time around me, you know that I am an enthusiastic member of ProVisors, a nationwide business networking group that is home to some great lawyers, accountants, financial planners, bankers, and many other trusted advisors. The thing I love most about the group is that I get to meet great professionals from all over the country.  One of those individuals who I met early on was Frank Rudewicz.  If you meet Frank, it won’t take you long to like him. He is the consummate professional who truly enjoys what he does. He is clearly invested in the success of those around him. And from his days at the FBI, he has great stories. I invited Frank on the show because Frank has deep experience doing investigations.  Since some of my audience are lawyers looking for alternatives to the traditional practice of law, I thought it would be great to have Frank on as a guest. In this episode, Frank and I talk about how he got to where he is today. He shares some thoughts about why lawyers make great investigators and offers some tips for anyone thinking about making a transition. Frank Rudewicz specializes in forensics and litigation support at the accounting firm CliftonLarsonAllen.  He has more than 30 years of experience conducting domestic and international investigations for fraud, forensic accounting, asset tracing and other litigation-related matters. He has appeared on NBC Dateline and Forensic Files for his investigative work. Frank is experienced in expert witness testimony and is the co-author of a book on Forensic Accounting and Fraud Investigation for Non-Experts.  Prior to joining CLA, , Frank served as Principal, Counsel and Partner-in-Charge of Forensic, Litigation and Valuation Services for several national accounting firms and Senior Managing Director and Counsel for an international risk consulting and investigative firm, as well as Vice President of a Super Regional Financial Institution. Earlier in his career, Frank spent 14 years in law enforcement with the Hartford Police Department and the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Additional Resources Episode 77-Going Solo with Employment Law and Workplace Investigations Episode 19-Canoeing vs. Whitewater Rafting-A Career Conversation With Jose Sierra

Anyone who knows me knows that I’m a big consumer of podcasts.  For me, podcasts are a significant part of my own ongoing professional development.  As someone who is not a big reader, I have also found podcasting an entertaining way to keep up on law, politics, marketing, and a host of other subjects that interest me including behavioral economics, psychology, mindfulness, true crime, health, and pop culture. And so I was very excited to stumble upon The Lawyer's Edge Podcast a few years ago.  My guest, Elise Holtzman, is the host of that podcast and I’ve now become a regular listener. I was even fortunate enough to be one of Elise’s guests last year. More importantly, I have been learning a LOT from Elise and her guests about a broad range of career and marketing topics. Lately, Elise has been focusing a lot of her conversations on the advancement of women in the law and given the depth of Elise’s own knowledge on the subject, I thought it would be great to invite her on to talk about some of the challenges that women face when trying to advance their careers. We talk about how the pandemic has impacted women, how her coaching helps women and non-women alike to develop the non-practice specific skills they need to be successful. Elise Holtzman is a former practicing attorney, certified executive coach, and the founder of The Lawyer’s Edge, where she and her coaching team help lawyers become better business developers and leaders. Elise began her career as a commercial real estate attorney at two AmLaw 100 firms.  She brings a deep understanding of the practice of law (and the demands of operating a firm) to her work. Elise frequently speaks  and writes on the subject of business development and career acceleration and as I already mentioned, she is host of a GREAT podcast. Additional Resources Episode 68-Are there Gender Differences in Legal Marketing?—What Men and Women Can Learn From Each Other About Building a Law Practice

I met Jim Durham in the early 1990s when legal marketing was just taking off in law firms.  For decades before, law was thought of more as a profession. And while it is still very much  profession, there has been a dramatic shift in the way law firms think about marketing.  While there a few remaining firms that rely on longstanding institutional relationships to keep associates and partners busy, most firms today are actively looking for ways to promote their reputations. The most successful and most highly compensated lawyers are the ones who have figured out how to create a niche and build strong relationships with potential clients and referral sources. In the late 1980s and early 1990s when law firms began hiring marketing professionals and lawyers began working with outside marketing consultants and coaches, I had the good fortune to meet some of the pioneers in this new field. One who really made an impression on me was my guest , Jim Durham. I recently reconnected with Jim and spoke to him about my work with senior lawyers who are trying to figure out their next stage.  Jim is someone who has reinvented himself numerous times in his career.  As I learned more about his back story, I realized that Jim was a story waiting to be told. Jim has been a partner at a major law firm, a sports agent, a Chief Marketing Officer for several major law firms, an outside marketing consultant and inspirational speaker, and an internal marketing executive for MLB.Com , the online arm of major league baseball. Today, Jim Durham is the Chief Operating Officer at Verrill, a large regional firm that has its roots in Portland, Maine.  But his origins would not suggest that he would be where he is today. Listen to his story and hear his inspiring life lessons and valuable advice for being successful in your legal career, whatever path you choose.

If I had to name one thing I work on with almost every client, it would be FOLLOW UP! Follow up and persistence are critical if you want to build your business relationships, generate referrals, find that great in-house job, or get alignment from the partners you are trying to lead. The explosion of email and the added proliferation of spam filters, has made this all the more challenging. If you add in the fact that many lawyers don't like "sales", follow up is challenging....but critical. If you want to generate work, leverage your network to find your next great career opportunity, or be an effective leader in your law firm or corporate law department, follow up is a core skill to cultivate. But at some point, you actually can overdo it!  Listen in for some practice tips on how to follow up in a professional and effective way.

Bruce La Fetra calls himself The Client Whisperer. He works with the leaders of law, finance and other professional services firms who can't scale or can't exit because they depend on a single rainmaker. His tag line is “Think Like Your Best Clients”. According to Bruce, the ability to consistently attract great clients sets the best lawyers far above their peers.  Your best clients are: 💲 Easier to manage 💲 More profitable 💲 Quicker to buy 💲 Provide more referrals 💲 More fun to work with Sounds simple. But as it turns out, it takes work to figure out who these clients are and what they are really looking for in a lawyer.  And clients may not be completely frank with their attorney.  That's where The Client Whisperer comes in. In this great conversation, Bruce talks about the ways he helps his clients grow and work smarter, rather than harder.  Bruce can be reached at bruce@eastwoodsa.com .

We speak all the time on this podcast about the many ways, lawyers can advance their careers and find more satisfaction in an out of the law. If you at a law firm that emphasizes professional development, chances are, you are learning how to be successful in your practice area. If you are fortunate to have a good mentor, perhaps you are also learning how to succeed at your firm and maybe how to begin to build your own practice.  But if you are like most law firm associates, it is on you to decide what direction you want your career to go.  Career counseling has not traditionally been provided by your employer.  That was for your law school career services office. But if you have been practicing for a few years, maybe you are unsure what comes next. Is partnership in your future?  SHOULD you be building a practice? Is in-house an option and how do you get there?  Is an alternative legal career in your future?  Do you want to leave the practice of law altogether? Most law firms leave those questions for you to figure out on your own (or by seeking out resources outside of your firm). But there are several firms that have now brought that function in-house.  In this episode, I am very pleased to bring in one of the pioneers of the field of law firm career counseling, Kevin Agnew. Kevin Agnew is Director of Attorney Career Services at Latham & Watkins an international law firm with almost 3000 lawyers. He runs the firm's Career Design program and oversees the global alumni program. In a confidential coaching environment, he works with attorneys on the full range of career issues. Kevin also is an Adjunct Professor at Northwestern Pritzker School of Law, where he was named Adjunct Professor of the Year in in 2017. Kevin shares valuable career advice for associates and describes how Latham has embraced the notion that there can be different definitions of success (and that each of these paths can be benefit attorneys and their firm). Related Podcasts Episode 30-The Key to Happiness in the Practice of Law Episode 27-Downsizing from Biglaw Episode 25-Thirty Years of Biglaw Wisdom

There is a lot of talk in my business networking group ProVisors about building a personal brand. But what is a personal brand?  How can it help you build your law practice?  Why should all lawyers create one? In this episode, I speak with an expert on branding.  Barbara Kaplan is CEO of BSK Strategies, a business development consulting practice helping individual lawyers and law firms build their brands, target and win new and higher-value work, establish thought-leadership, and develop innovative strategies and approaches to distinguish themselves in a competitive marketplace. She brings to her consulting and coaching work over 20 years of experience helping clients define, pursue and win the business they want. She is devoted to helping them make that skill second nature. Join us for a great discussion about how to differentiate yourself in the marketplace by creating a personal brand, taming your inner critic so it doesn't interfere with your efforts to self brand, and a host of related topics.

Lauren Rikleen knew from a very early age that she was destined to become a lawyer.  She was the one in her family who was always questioning. She was the one who was always concerned about injustice. One of her earliest childhood memories was trying to stop bullying on the playground.   Today, Lauren is President of the Rikleen Institute for Strategic Leadership.  She is a nationally recognized expert on developing a thriving  diverse and multi-generational workforce. I recently sat down with Lauren to reflect on her career and what she has been doing since she left the practice of law.  Lauren was a guest on one of the first episodes of C2C where she spoke about success strategies for women in the legal profession. I invited her back to update us on her work since then and to talk about what inspired her to do the work she now does. She is an inspiration to me and to many women in the legal profession!

We talk a lot on this podcast about marketing and career management.  While great lawyers have great technical skills, getting the work you want and advancing your career, requires a different set of skills. The same is true for lawyers who move from being an individual contributor to taking on leadership roles in their firm or in their corporate law department. In this episode, I speak with an expert on how to make a successful transition into leadership.  We discuss the things you should be thinking about if you have already made that move.  Whether you are chairing a department for the first time, new to the role of managing partner at your firm, or promoted to general counsel, this is a great conversation for you. My guest, Steve Smith is the President of GrowthSource Coaching, an Orange County CA based business and executive coaching company.  Steve serves business professionals that want to become extraordinary leaders and savvy business owners.  He has coached nearly 600 clients over 14 years and enjoys moments when his clients gain the clarity that lets them know they can achieve what they want.  He has worked with many lawyers, and I am very pleased to say that he is my own coach! 

It has never been easier to create digital content to market your law practice.  But what is the right mix?  How much should you be leveraging LinkedIn and other social media platforms to build your visibility.  Are email newsletters effective? Should you be using SEO to get more visitors to your website? What about podcasting?  What should you being doing yourself and when should you outsource? In this episode, I speak with Marc Apple, a real expert in digital marketing.  Marc is the owner of Forward Push, a marketing agency that creates dynamic websites and manages SEO for companies in a range of industries.  His clients are startups and small-to-medium sized businesses including law firms.  Marc and I discuss how to leverage the full array of marketing options that are readily available and when to turn to an agency for help.

I speak to a lot of lawyers who are interested in moving into in-house roles. While not every in-house lawyer is happy leaving private practice, on the whole, I find that the in-house lawyers I meet have higher levels of career satisfaction.  In-house lawyers generally don’t keep track of their time, at least not in the same way.  And while the hours can still be demanding, lawyers who work in corporate law departments often have more predictability. In-house lawyers also enjoy having an ongoing relationship with a client that they get to know on a deeper level. And for many in-house counsel, being the company lawyer means the opportunity to participate in more business decisions. The path to in-house is clear for corporate lawyers.  Employment attorneys also have a relatively easy time moving in-house. But for litigators, the path is less obvious. In this episode, I speak with Evan Slavitt, a former litigator who has some great advice for litigators looking to go in-house.  I recently reconnected with Evan after many years and after we spoke for a while about his experience as a General Counsel. I quickly realized that I had to have him on the show. EVAN is the Senior Vice President, General Counsel and Corporate Secretary for KYOCERA AVX Components Corporation in South Carolina. Before joining AVX, Evan spent many years in private practice where he concentrated on complex commercial litigation and white-collar criminal defense.  He also did a stint at the US Attorney’s office in Boston in the 1980’s. I met him during that time when I was a law student working as a clerk in that office.  Evan can be reached at evan.slavitt@kyocera-avx.com,

Launching your own law practice can be both energizing and scary. For lawyers who are accustomed to earning a steady paycheck, hanging a shingle means saying goodbye to security. Leaving a large firm means that there is no one between you and the client. You need to figure out how to advise them without the help of partners who are just down the hall. You also need to develop your own infrastructure. At the same time, starting your own practice means having a lot of flexibility and a chance to really build something of your own. In one of the first episodes of Counsel to Counsel, I interviewed Matt Yospin, an IP lawyer who went solo after several years at an AmLaw 100 firm. Since that time, I have coached a number of lawyers who have started their own practices.  Matt Yospin spoke a lot about how he has leveraged technology to make his IP practice run smoothly with far fewer resources.  In this episode, I speak with Allan MacLean about starting a solo employment law practice, what he wishes he had known when he launched his firm, and how he has shifted the nature of his work after leaving a large national labor and employment law boutique.  Allan described what it was like to start representing employees after focusing on representing only management.  He also talked about how workplace investigations are a nice adjunct to the litigation he is doing. Allan MacLean is the owner of MacLean Employment Law in Cambridge, Massachusetts where he concentrates on employment law and civil litigation. Allan now counsels and represents both individuals and employers regarding the full range of employment matters, including leaves of absence, compensation issues, terminations, and harassment and discrimination claims. He also assists clients with "non-compete" agreements, and a growing part of his practice is workplace investigations.

Early December is a great time to start planning for the New Year. Creating S.M.A.R.T. goals is a great way to make sure that you achieve what you set out to do.  In this special edition of the Counsel to Counsel Podcast, I define S.M.A.R.T. goals and then share with you my own S.M.A.R.T. goals for 2022.

When I speak to lawyers about the changes they would like to make in their careers, there are a number of repeating themes. One theme I often hear from litigators is that they are tired of the conflict and petty discovery disputes. They are frustrated in having to deal with opposing counsel who seem more interested in winning than in justice.  One path for these lawyers is alternative dispute resolution. So where is mediation today and what are the career opportunities for lawyers who want to shift their careers in that direction?  In this episode, Amy Mariani answers that question. Amy Mariani is someone I would trust unequivocally if I were involved in a conflict. She is practical, knows how to take the temperature down in a conflicted situation and is someone who knows how to quickly build trust and rapport. For twenty years, Amy tried cases in the areas of employment, personal injury, and breach of contract.  She began, mediating part time in 2014 and since 2016, she has done it full time.

We have spoken a lot on Counsel to Counsel about the importance of building business relationships. But we have not spent much time discussing how to turn those relationships into actual paying work. In this episode, I am joined by Gary Johnson who understands a lot about selling legal services.  We discuss a series of common hypothetical situations where there may be opportunities to generate business.  Gary walks us through the process for identifying needs and doing so in a way that does not exert pressure on a client, prospective client, or referral source. Gary Johnson is President of J2 Marketing Consultants. He helps attorneys get more profitable clients. Gary’s experience building strategies and applying proven techniques offers an effective way to help attorneys grow their practice by bringing in ideal clients. He provides the tools needed to focus his clients on building value when approaching prospective clients. Gary makes the process easy, and I can vouch for that.  

In thinking about guests to invite to this podcast, I’m always on the lookout for attorneys who have taken alternative career paths. I also try to find both practicing attorneys and former practicing attorneys who have great advice to share with my audience.  Today’s guest is in the latter category. Amy M. Gardner is a certified career and career transitions coach and team development and leadership consultant with Apochromatik. She works with employers to reengage teams and help them thrive. She also works with lawyers one-on-one and in small group masterminds to advance in their roles or transition to a new one. Amy is a former Big Law associate, partner at a mid-size Chicago firm, and dean of students at the University of Chicago Law School. Her career and goal achievement advice has been featured in media including numerous podcasts, ABA publications, Glassdoor, Monster, and NBC to name a few. In this interview, Amy shares some great practical advice for associates who are trying to build their careers in private practice.

In the past year, I’ve been talking a lot on this show about The Next Stage, my program to help senior lawyers figure out what comes next.  My guests have discussed ways that lawyers can find meaning later in their careers.  One topic that we’ve addressed is succession planning, or ways that lawyers can ensure that what they have built will live on as they scale back or exit the practice of law. In larger firms, succession planning may mean handing the reins of leadership over time to the next generation and starting a process of transitioning the clients.  For smaller firms, there may not be a deep bench ready to take over.  In those instances, lawyers may simply opt to practice until they are no longer able to because of incapacity or death.  Some lawyers will simply close their doors. But some small firms may choose another option, and that is a sale. In this episode, Tom Lenfestey discusses selling a law practice.  Tom is a lawyer and CPA in North Carolina who runs the Law Practice Exchange where he helps senior lawyers get value from the enterprise that they have spent a lifetime building.  Tom speaks and writes regularly on the subject and is author of Designing a Succession Plan for Your Law Practice. Additional Resources Succession Planning For Your Career: What Comes Next Episode 67-Retirement By Design (for Lawyers)

There are a lot of unhappy lawyers in our profession. But when I started this podcast three years ago, it was my firm belief that there are many happy attorneys as well and we can all learn from them. In this episode, I speak with  Arivee Vargas, an attorney who really works at trying to find more fulfillment in her career. She is also someone who inspires others through her own coaching work. I met Arivee for the first time when I sat in on a career panel that was sponsored by Region I of the Hispanic National Bar Association. Arivee and her fellow panelists were all lawyers who had graduated law school around the time of the 2008 financial crisis and they had some very practical advice for law student looking for work in a pandemic.  I was blown away by her take charge attitude and her ability to demonstrate resilience in the face of adversity. This past Spring she launched The Humble Rising Podcast and I began listening.  Again I was blown away at what a what an inspiration Arivee can be.  Arivee is a first-generation lawyer who has worked in two large law firms, clerked for the First Circuit and US District Court in Massachusetts, works for a major biotech company, and has a side hustle now as a Certified Life and High-Performance Coach to professionals who are first generation and women of color.  She also manages to be mother to three young children. This is her story.

There are many efforts underway around the country to help lawyers address stress in the practice of law. Several years ago, the Report of the Task Force on Lawyer Well-Being was issued by the American Bar Association, Conference of Chief Judges, and other legal organizations.  It called well-being an essential element of a lawyer’s duty of competence. In Massachusetts, there is an organization called Lawyers Concerned for Lawyers which helps attorneys deal with substance abuse and some of the underlying causes of attorney anxiety and depression and there are similar organizations in many states. In January of 2020, The Supreme Judicial Court of Massachusetts created a Standing Committee on Lawyer Well-Being. The Standing Committee is charged with planning and overseeing efforts to enhance the well-being of lawyers, judges and law students in the Commonwealth and is doing a great job of educating these different constituencies. As summer is coming to a close and the pandemic rages on, I thought this was a good time to revisit the subject of attorney well-being.  And if you happen to be Jewish like me, this is generally a great time for self-reflection and thinking about the changes you want to make in your life.  So with the start of the New Year, Jewish or not, I was pleased to welcome Shailini George, a professor at Suffolk University School of Law. Shailini is someone who has thought a lot about the subject of attorney well-being and just published a book called The Law Student’s Guide to Doing Well and Being Well.  She was also co-author of Mindful Lawyering: The Key to Creative Problem Solving.  Shailini teaches legal writing  at Suffolk and focuses her scholarship on lawyer well-being, mindfulness, and the cognitive science of learning.  In this episode, we talk stress in the practice of law and about what Shailini calls distraction addiction.  She offers strategies for addressing stress and distraction in order to become a more productive, effective and happier lawyer.   Other Resources Episode 33-Mindfulness, Biofeedback, and the Practice of Law Episode 37-Managing Anxiety in a Time of Crisis Ten Percent Happier (Dan Harris, an ABC News personality, brings mindfulness to skeptics with his book, app and podcast; tons of content and a great place to start for a modest annual fee--look for discounts)

There are many paths to success in a law firm.  I’ve emphasized on this podcast that growing your practice is a good place to start.  Having your own clients gives you a sense of ownership that is hard to achieve when you are just servicing firm clients.  If you have your own book of business, there is more opportunity to focus on the work you enjoy and the clients you like.   For some, getting involved in the management of a firm is another way to find more fulfillment.  But it is not for everyone. I once heard someone say that managing a law firm is like being the only fire hydrant in a town filled with dogs. David Maister and Patrick McKenna put it another way in their book First Among Equals.  When you are running a professional services firm, you must lead through influence rather than authority. In this episode, I have a great conversation with David Rosenblatt who has been one of the longest serving Managing Partners in the Boston legal market.  He has served as Managing Partner at Burns & Levinson since 1998. During that time, David has seen a lot of changes in the practice of law and a lot of changes at his own firm. A few months ago, the firm announced that David would be stepping down from the role in 2023 and I thought it would be a great opportunity to speak to David and get him to reflect on his experience. In this episode, we talk about David’s career, the changes he has seen, what has been most fulfilling for him, what advice he has for lawyers thinking about law firm management, and a host of other topics.

There are many ways to build a law practice.  Legal marketing is not a one size fits all. Lawyers have different personalities and interests.  Different practice areas lend themselves to different marketing techniques. Beyond this, there can be some gender differences in the way men and women approach marketing. In this episode, I speak with Lana Manganiello who has put a lot of thought into this subject.  Lana is a business development coach with Equinox Strategy Partners.  We met through our business networking group ProVisors and I’ve been learning a lot from her. Lana works with attorneys and firms to create bespoke and measurable business development strategies and actionable plans.  She truly believes business development is the key to career fulfillment in the legal profession. Recently, Lana and I were on a call with several other ProVisors members who coach attorneys. As the only woman on the call, she brought a perspective that I thought would be great to bring to Counsel to Counsel.  Lana and I talk about how she helps attorneys achieve success with her three-part plan. We then dive into the question of legal marketing and gender. Additional Resources Check out other episodes of the C2C podcast and read articles and blog posts. Visit the Resources section on my website

Aging baby boomers now fill the senior ranks of many law firms across the United States. Because of this, hundreds of partnerships will be facing succession planning issues in the next decade. How can firms make successful transitions and ensure the long-term viability of their practices? How will senior partners transition their clients to younger partners, so the clients are well served in the future? How will the next generation assume responsibility for managing the firm of tomorrow? Underpinning all this is a reality: Lawyers are living longer, lawyers have very strong professional identities, and many senior lawyers are not doing a good job of planning their own transitions. A lot of lawyers have worked hard for so long that it is difficult to imagine what might fill the void if they were to leave or cut back. What will these attorneys do when they are no longer chairing a department or actively serving clients they have worked with for decades? What are some of the creative strategies that lawyers have used to figure out what comes next? My guest Ida Abbott has thought a lot about the subject and has put together a great resource for helping senior lawyers to address these challenging existential issues. On today’s show, we will be talk about her book Retirement by Design and we discuss some of the practical considerations for lawyers who are further along in their careers. Ida is a leader in the field of talent management and an internationally recognized expert in the areas of mentoring, sponsorship and the advancement of women into leadership. As a lawyer and consultant to the legal profession, she has focused on the power of mentoring relationships to guide, support and transform professional careers from the beginning of practice through retirement. Other Resources Succession Planning for Your Career: What Comes Next? Episode 62- Financial & Career Planning for Senior Attorneys Episode 61-Succession Planning With Senior Attorney Match Episode 58-Managing Your Exit (Career Succession Planning-- with Bill Lahey, Esq.) Episode 40-Succession Planning for Law Firms Meets Chapter 3 for Lawyers  

For many lawyers, going in-house continues to be an attractive career option.  But the lawyers I speak to have a lot of questions about making a transition to in-house. They ask me about the timing, how to find good in-house jobs, how practicing in a corporate law department differs from private practice and how in-house jobs differ from each other.  In this episode, I speak with David Sclar who has a lot to say on the subject.  David is author of Workplace Strategies for Technology Lawyers, and he is joins me from Washington DC where he works as Healthcare Compliance and Privacy Officer for WW (formerly known as Weight Watchers.)  David began his career doing a clerkship with the U.S. Bankruptcy Court.  He worked at two AmLaw 100 firms and prior to joining WW, he spent 6 years at a healthcare company until the company was acquired.  David has a lot of wisdom to share on going in-house Additional Podcasts and Resources What I've Learned as In-House Counsel Frequently Asked Questions About Going In-House Episode 49-Adapting to Change, Pivoting to In-house and DEI in the Legal Profession Episode 39-An In-house Career in the Life Sciences

On Counsel to Counsel, I speak with attorneys and  consultants who share their advice about advancing your legal career.  We  discuss practical issues to help you build the career that you want. In recent episodes we have talked about how to build relationships in a virtual environment, how to leverage the LinkedIn platform, how to go in house, how to manage your time more effectively, and how to create a side hustle while practicing law. In this episode, we take a step back to look at much bigger existential issues (how we find meaning in our lives more broadly.) My guest, Rochelle seltzer, discusses what she calls living big. Rochelle is a Creative Core Coach and author of the acclaimed book, Live Big: A Manifesto for a Creative Life. Her mission is to unleash the untapped creative capacity inside women everywhere, so they bring all of their greatness into the world. She teaches and supports accomplished women to move past what keeps them blocked, stuck and small, to create and live their biggest, best lives. Rochelle began her career as a designer. Thirty years later she sold her firm and embarked on a new chapter, studying creativity. She wanted to unlock her own creativity — and learn to help others unblock theirs. It has been my pleasure to get to know Rochelle through my business networking group ProVisors in the last year.

Being a great communicator is essential to your success as a lawyer. Whether you are counseling a client, managing paralegals or associates, giving a presentation, or just trying to cultivate relationships that might lead to business, effective communication is everything to your success. If you are like me, in law school, you learned to think like a lawyer.  You cultivated your legal research and writing skills and learned to interpret the law.  When you entered the real world, you soon learned that you need a whole different set of skills to succeed.  And a lot of that has to do with how you communicate whether it is with clients, referral sources, colleagues, and other lawyers. In this episode, I speak with Donna Mac who has a lot to say on the subject of effective communication. Donna is founder and President of iVoice Communication and trains current and emerging leaders to create new, healthier communication practices so they can become influential, resilient and speak with confidence.  She teaches mindfulness techniques that her clients can use to be more present and more successful in delivering a message. I met Donna through my business networking group ProVisors and since that time I've had the chance to speak with her about my own challenges in communicating with difficult people (including family members and clients).  I’ve also heard her give great presentations on communication at the New York Public Library speaker series.

LinkedIn is a critical marketing tool for lawyers. This has been underscored this year as the world of in-person networking has remained largely shut down.  But as the world opens up and we find ourselves at conferences, networking functions, meeting for lunch or coffee, LinkedIn will continue to be an important tool in the marketing tool bag. In this episode episode, we do a quick dive into LinkedIn and talk about how to make the most of LinkedIn. My guest Kristyn Brophy has a lot to say about using the platform more effectively.  Kristyn has worked in-house at a number of major law firms in the Boston area .  More recently she joined Legal Internet Solutions Incorporated as Director of Client Strategy.  She is a fountain of knowledge about legal marketing, social media, and the newest platform in the social media ecosystem, Clubhouse. Additional Resources With LinkedIn, Measure Quality of Engagement not Quantity Getting Personal on LinkedIn Once in a While Episode 11-The Social Media Maven Networked: How 20 Women Lawyers Overcame the Confines of COVID-19 Social Distancing to Create Connections, Cultivate Community, & Build Businesses in the Midst of a Global Pandemic

This past year has been one of great reflection for many attorneys. The lawyers I speak to are thinking more about what they want from their careers and how they can find meaning in their professionals and personal lives. One group I'm particularly enjoying working with are senior lawyers who have 30 or more years of experience in practice.  The pandemic has caused this group of attorneys to think more about existential questions (What do I really want to do the next 10-15 years?  Am I ready to make a big shift? Should I cut down on my practice or leave the practice altogether and if so, how do I fill my time in meaningful ways?) Making a career transition raises a host of issues for lawyers at any stage of their career.  But financial issues are particularly salient for senior lawyers.  Do I have enough to retire?  When can I stop working full time?  How do I protect myself and my family as I go through this transition? In this episode, my guest Chris Cahill talks about these issues and provides a framework for thinking about the financial part of making a career transition.   Chris is a financial planner who is also an attorney. A lot of his clients are now attorneys and I had Chris as a guest speaker in the Fall.  Chris is much more than a money manager.  He brings a host of skills to wealth management and most importantly, he understands the attorney psyche.  Chris and I talk about the financial planning issues that face senior attorneys, how Chris got involved in this work, and what are the issues that are particularly challenging for attorneys in managing money.

As we’ve discussed several times on this show, there are 100s of law firms  throughout the country that are facing succession planning issues.  Baby boomers are aging quickly and firms that want to be in business in 10 years need to have a plan that makes room for the next generation.  How can firms make a successful transition and ensure the long-term viability of their practices?  What options are available to firms? In this episode, I’m excited to welcome Jeremy Poock who knows a lot about this subject.  Jeremy, who is Founder of Senior Attorney Match, works with lawyers who have practiced for at least 30 years. He helps develop, design, and implement succession plans for their law practices.  He has a great model for helping senior lawyers to get value out of their firms while ensuring a smooth transition into the future. More Resources Episode 58-Managing Your Exit (Career Succession Planning—with Bill Lahey) Episode 50- Late Career Shift to Public Service Episode 40-Succession Planning for Law Firms Meets Chapter 3 for Lawyers

In this episode, we return to a coaching session with Beth Masterman.  If you haven’t heard Part I, you should go back and listen to that first.  In today’s episode, several months have now past and Beth and I are continuing to explore my next career move. To recap,  Steve, is a 9th year real estate associate at Smith Johnson, an AmLaw 100 firm.  Steve was passed up for partnership and reached out to Beth for help. Steve is not a real person but he has issues which are similar to the issues that some of my clients have faced. After our first session, I reflected on some of the insights I gained from speaking to Beth.  Here is what I came up with: The decision by Smith Johnson was a business decision; it had little to do with me. While there are things I like about Smith Johnson and it has been a great experience, it really isn't the best platform for building my practice. Real estate is not a strategic focus of the firm and because my bill rate is so high, it is hard to generate the work I want to do. The partners I work with are not good role models for what I want from my life and my career. I've never thought about a Plan B and always thought that I'd make partner; but now I get a chance to think more critically. This session takes place several months after this first session.  In working with Beth, I reaffirmed that I actually do like practicing law and even like doing real estate (although it would be nice to branch out a little and do more than leasing).  I met with some contacts at several mid-sized firms but I’m now feeling  that running my own practice is the way to go. But I have some concerns. Additional Resources Listen to Part I of the Mock Interview Listen to my original interview with Beth Masterman What is attorney coaching and how does it work (follow links to see examples and read more about how coaching works.)

Counsel to Counsel is now in it’s third year and with this episode, we decided to try something a little different. Many people ask me to explain what coaching is.  While I’ve written about the subject and had on today’s guest in an earlier episode to talk about coaching, I thought that doing a mock coaching session would be a great way to demonstrate the power of working with an executive coach.  I decided that Beth Masterman would be a great guest to invite back. Thankfully, she agreed to do it.  Beth has been a wonderful mentor to me and I truly value her wisdom and the guidance and support she has given me over the last two years. Beth is a certified and credentialed by the International Coach Federation and has a Graduate Certificate in Executive Coaching.  She is also a lawyer and has a master’s in psychology. As an executive coach, Beth is great at helping her clients consider possibilities and interpret the big picture.  She was recently named the Number One Executive Coach in the Massachusetts Lawyers Weekly Readers Rankings awards. In this mock session, I play Steve, a 9th year real estate associate at Smith Johnson, an AmLaw 100 firm.  Steve has been passed up for partnership and he has reached out to Beth for help. Steve is is based on a client that Steve Secker worked with several years ago. This is the first of two parts. Additional Resources Listen to my original interview with Beth Masterman What is attorney coaching and how does it work (follow links to see examples and read more about how coaching works.)

With aging baby boomer in their senior ranks, 100s of law firms  throughout the country are facing succession planning issues.  How can the firm make a successful transition and ensure the long-term viability of their practice?  How will the younger partners step into the role of managing client relationships so the clients are well served in the future? Underpinning all of this is a reality for many firms. Lawyers are living longer, practicing longer, and have very strong professional identities as lawyers.  What will these attorneys do when they are no longer chairing a department?  What are some of the creative strategies that lawyers have used to figure out What Comes Next. My guest, Bill Lahey, has thought a lot about that subject.  Bill began his career in the public sector, worked for one large firm, one small firm and over 4 years, cut his hours by 20% per year and is not entirely out of the practice of law.  Along the way, Bill has experimented with pro bono work, taken a sabbatical in Bhutan, and explored graduate degrees in two fields.  He is anything but a “typical lawyer” and I invited him on the show to share some tips for senior lawyers who aren’t sure how to make their own transitions. Additional Resources Episode 40-Succession Planning for Law Firms Meets Chapter 3 for Lawyers Episode 50-A Late Career Shift to Public Service Episode 19-Canoeing vs. Whitewater Rafting-A Career Conversation With Jose Sierra Designing Your Life: How to Build a Well-Lived, Joyful Life

Paul Morton has a lot to say about the term “non-billable hours”.  Paul is the COO of the law firm Burns and Levinson in Boston.  He has been a figure in law firm administration for well over 30 years and he has seen a lot of changes during that time including increased billing pressure on lawyers.  But according to Paul, billable hours should not take priority over all non-billable work.  In fact according to Paul, the phrase “non-billable hours” should be replaced with “investment hours”. Simply put, attorneys need to generate income for their firms in the short run.  But they also need to invest time in marketing, law firm management, professional development, and self-care.  In the long run, investing in these activities is good for firm profitability, career satisfaction, and mental health. Carving out time for “investment hours” is challenging for many lawyers.  There are many things competing for an attorney’s time and time management is not a skill taught in law school.  And once you are on a law firm, you are largely rewarded for the number of hours you bill. So how do you balance the two? Dr. Sarah Reiff-Hekking, has some answers!  She is an expert on the subject. Sarah is the founder of True Focus Coaching Inc. She is a speaker, coach, and Productivity and Time Matters Expert with over 20 years of experience.  She empowers professionals and entrepreneurs to get a grip on time so that they can get to the next level in their lives and businesses. In this episode, Sarah and I discuss some of the challenges that busy lawyers face in managing their time. Sarah offers some very practical tips to help us understand how to be more productive, more effective, and more present.

In many ways, practicing law and being an entrepreneur are completely opposite activities.  Entrepreneurs are all about possibilities: What might be? What problems can we solve? Where are the gaps in the marketplace? Lawyers, on the other hand, spend their days identifying risks, thinking about what can go wrong, and managing those risks. There are numerous examples of lawyers who have left the practice to pursue a law-related entrepreneurial opportunity. There are legal technology firms that have been started by former practicing attorneys.  There are lawyers like me who have gone into legal recruiting and coaching. There are also attorneys who decide to move in an entirely different direction and start a restaurant or some other business which is not law-related. But what about lawyers who want to continue to practice law but operate a business on the side? My guest in this episode, Lori Mihalich-Levin, is someone who has done just that. Lori is a partner at the law firm Dentons.  But she is also the creator of a successful consulting business. Lori and I discuss the genesis for her business, how she grew it, and how she balances her work as a lawyer with her business.  Lori also talks about how practicing law makes her a better entrepreneur and how being an entrepreneur makes her a better lawyer. Lori, is a partner in the health care practice at Dentons and the founder and CEO of Mindful Return.  She is the author of Back to Work After Baby: How to Plan and Navigate a Mindful Return from Maternity Leave, and co-host of the Parents at Work Podcast. She is mama to two wonderful red-headed boys (ages 7 and just turning 10). Her thought leadership has been featured in publications including Forbes, The Washington Post, New York Times Parenting, Thrive Global, and The Huffington Post.

If you are an attorney, what does it mean to be a professional?  What is the borderline between zealous advocacy and uncivil and obstructionist behavior?  My guest in this episode, Don Frederico, has a lot to say about that subject.  Don is a lawyer I met over 30 years ago when I began my own legal career at Massachusetts Continuing Legal Education.  At that time, Don was a litigation partner at the law firm McDermott Will and Emery. Today, Don leads the Class Action Defense Practice at Pierce Atwood.  I met hundreds of lawyers during my days at MCLE.  While many of our volunteers were true experts in their fields and generous with their time in helping to educate the bar, there were some standouts.  Don was not only someone who was willing to step up when asked, but he was an enthusiastic participant and someone who I thought really modeled true professionalism in the way he treated everyone. In this episode, I speak about Don’s career, how he has found career satisfaction beyond serving clients, and what he thinks it means to be a professional in the law.

On this podcast, we talk a lot about relationship building.  Doing great work should always be your number one priority as a lawyer.  But successful careers are not built on merit alone.  The people in your network are critical.  Whether you are thinking about an in-house move or growing your law practice, relationships matter….a lot.  In this episode, I speak with someone who is a master at relationship building.  Ben Sigel is a lawyer who has been a litigator at several mid-sized and large firms, Director of Client and Community Relations for an AmLaw 100 firm, a Candidate for the United States Congress in my district, and President of the New England Chapter of the Hispanic National Bar Association.  He is someone who actively works to build communities and a natural connector. He is also someone with deep roots in both the LatinX and Jewish Communities. About a year ago, I began working on a diversity initiative with ProVisors, a great business networking group that I belong to. I talk about ProVisors a lot on this show (and to anyone who will listen). When I was thinking that I wanted to build deeper ties in the Hispanic legal community, everyone said Ben is someone I should meet. And so we had coffee in the lobby of his office building and he taught me something very important.  If you want to build connections in a new community, you need to show up. Since that time, I’ve seen Ben show up over and over and over again.  He cares deeply about building bridges and he embraces both his LatinX and Jewish heritages.  Ben and I will be talk about his philosophy about bringing together constituencies and what it was like to run a congressional campaign during a pandemic. .

The New Year is finally here and without getting into it, let’s just say that many of us are happy to welcome 2021.  A new year brings hope, a chance for a new beginning, and if you are in private practice, a great opportunity to ramp up your marketing and business development. So today, that is what we will be focusing on: how to grow your practice in 2021, and what it is like to work with a business coach to achieve that goal. For this episode, I have invited Alay Yajnik, award-winning business coach and founder of Law Firm Success Group. Alay's firm helps law firms owners across the country make more money, get better clients, and take more vacations. He hails from the San Francisco Bay Area, and we met through our business networking group ProVisors. I’ve already appeared as a guest on his podcast  the Lawyer Business Advantage.  Additional Resources Can Hiring a Coach Enhance Your Practice and Your Life? How Coaching Can Help Attorneys Increase Career Satisfaction-Stephen Seckler on the Legal Toolkit  Coaching to the Next Level-My Guest Appearance on the “Be That Lawyer” Podcast 

For the last 10 months, most interviewing has gone on-line.  Zoom interviews are the norm right now and new hires are even being on-boarded virtually.  While the world will eventually shift back to in-person interviews, Zoom, WebEx and other virtual platforms are likely to continue to play a significant role in the hiring process.  The convenience of bringing together parties who are in different locations and have different schedules, it high.  As we enter 2021, I decided to that updating my interviewing tips was long overdue.  In this episode, I share with you the latest tips for on-line interviewing.  Click here to read my more comprehensive interviewing guide which covers both live and virtual interviews. I also invite you to listen to a conversation with my former colleague Amy Levine.  Her advice on interviewing is pre-COVID; but her tips remain very relevant (Nailing the Job Interview).  And as always, I welcome your emails and phone calls if you would like to discuss.

It has been a hard year for most of us.  But we have a lot to be thankful for as well.  In this special edition of Counsel to Counsel, here is my list of things to be thankful for.  What's your list?  Practicing gratitude is one way to provide solace to ourselves.

Many lawyers choose public service early in their careers.  In a public agency, attorneys may find that they are getting more responsibility than they might get at the same stage in private practice.  Assistant district attorneys, for example, find themselves trying cases almost from day one.  Lawyers working for agencies that regulate industry may be given a lot more responsibility for crafting policy than they might otherwise be exposed to as an associate at a law firm. But salaries in the public sector generally lag far behind salaries in private practice and for many lawyers, the career path often runs from government into the private sector. In truth, there are many opportunities for lawyers who are further along in their careers to move in the other direction.  At the highest levels of government, politicians often turn to the most successful attorneys in private practice to head agencies or craft policy later in their career.  For these senior lawyers, it is a win-win.  It is a chance to give back and find another burst of career satisfaction at a time in life when the economics are less important. My guest in this episode, Rich Johnston, did just that in 2015.  After a long and successful career as a litigator at Wilmer Hale (a firm that was Hale and Dorr for most of his professional life), Rich was brought on by Maura Healey, the Attorney General of Massachusetts, to be her Chief Legal Counsel. In this episode, I speak with Rich about his path to the Attorney General’s Office, what he loves about public service, and advice he has for lawyers thinking about making a move like this after a lengthy law firm career. Related Episodes Episode 22-From Litigation to Public Service to Government Affairs with Former U.S. Senator Mo Cowan Episode 35-A Career in Electoral Politics-A Conversation with Senator Becca Rausch Episode 14-From Biglaw to Government to In-house

Many lawyers who start out in private practice don’t expect to stay in a law firm setting.  Sometimes the move in-house is planned.  At other times, moving in-house becomes a more realistic option when partnership doesn’t seem likely. And after moving in-house, things can also change quickly. My guest in this episode, Bill Gabovitch, has a lot to say on the subject of adapting to change.  Bill began his career in private practice, experienced a layoff, ended up in-house and found his role in-house changing rapidly one day. Today he is General Counsel of Primark US but he previously worked in-house at Staples and for three major firms in Boston. Bill is someone I always run into at non-profit events.  He is one of the most civically engaged lawyers I know and someone who has a deep commitment to diversity and inclusion.  Bill and I discuss his career path, how he has pivoted several times in his career and the role that his non-profit work has played in helping him to find more career satisfaction.

Lateral partner movement is alive and well in the practice of law.  While partners and practice groups were changing firms with increasing frequency in the past decade, the pandemic has not really slowed down the process. There are many reasons why law firm partners seek out greener pastures. In this episode, my guest Susan Mendelsohn, talks about some of those reasons.  But what makes a lateral move a success?  Why do some partners make a lateral move and stay for years while others quickly discover that another lateral move may be in the offing. Susan Mendelsohn has a lot to say on the subject. Susan Mendelsohn has been recruiting in the legal space for over 20 years. While she is based in Chicago, she serves clients throughout the United States and not only does recruiting, but like me, Susan also spends a portion of her time on coaching. Other Resources Episode 12-The Lateral Partner 20 Questions For Law Firm Partners

Many attorneys I speak with think about transitioning to an in-house role at some point in their career.  For some lawyers, the path to in-house is planned and deliberate.  But for many lawyers, in-house opportunities arise through serendipity.  That is what happened to my guest in this episode. Jonathan Moll, had a long and successful career in private practice.  But by developing an expertise in education, a great in-house opportunity arose with one of his clients and he seized the moment. Jonathan and I  talk about what drew him to education and how early on, he developed an early niche in crisis management.  He also talks about taking advantage of the opportunities that come your way and what he is doing now in the latest stage in his career. Jonathan is someone who has always been very generous to me with his time.  He has always been willing to be a sounding board and I’ve benefited a lot from his career wisdom.  He currently serves a General Counsel to Arx Urban, a real estate development company run by his two sons.

In this episode of the Counsel to Counsel podcast, I am joined by a talented communications expert, Charlotte Dietz, Founder of Speak Well Partners. Charlotte is a communications and public speaking coach and business story strategist.  She shares some great insights into how we can all do a better job communicating in a virtual environment. Since March, most of us have been getting a crash course in how to use Zoom (or other virtual platforms). In some ways, Zoom is really just another phone call and most lawyers are very accustomed to speaking on conference calls. But Zoom has its own nuances and as many of us are learning, there are pluses and minuses of being able to connect visually from a distance. In the early days (we back at the start of the pandemic), many people were experimenting with virtual backgrounds, learning to unmute themselves (and at appropriate times, shutting off the video camera.) Some of us have tried to improve the optics through better lighting and even through better equipment.  But the main issue that many of us are grappling with his is how to make a real connection with other professionals when we are not in the room with them.  This is true when we are one-on-one, and it is even more true when we are in a group or even delivering a presentation.  These issues are challenging when we are in person.  But in a virtual world, it is that much harder to be “heard”! Charlotte has some great tips to help us communicate more effectively on Zoom or other virtual platforms. Additional Resources If You Don’t Like Sports, Try Becoming a Sports Fan Fan Be Interested; Be Interesting Getting the Most from Networking Meetings and Troikas [podcast] Zoom is a Great Tool for Relationship Building—But Use it “Right”

In this episode I speak with Dave Dykeman, a Co-Managing Partner of the Boston office of Greenberg Traurig.  Dave and I met almost 20 years ago, not long after he moved to Boston and since that time I’ve watched his career take off as he has successfully built an IP practice in the life sciences.  Whenever I coach lawyers on marketing and business development, my starting point is getting my clients to define their ideal client.  While this doesn’t always include what industries they serve, having an industry focus is a good way to differentiate yourself. In a crowded marketplace for legal services, it is critical to define your niche and find ways to make yourself memorable.  While work ultimately comes from the relationships you build with clients, potential clients and referral sources, “choosing your lane” is the best starting point. My guest, Dave Dykeman, is someone who has not only clearly defined himself as a lawyer, but over the last two decades, he has done an outstanding job of building relationships that have been critical to his success.   In this episode, we’ll be discussing how Dave built that reputation, grew his practice, and what it has been like to move into a management role at an AmLaw100 firm.  He talks about coming to Boston, a city where he didn't know anyone. David Dykeman, serves as Co-Managing Shareholder of Greenberg Traurig's Boston office and co-chairs the firm's global Life Sciences & Medical Technology Group.  He is a registered patent attorney with more than 23 years of experience in patent and intellectual property law. David's practice focuses on securing worldwide intellectual property protection and related business strategy for high tech clients, with particular experience in life sciences, medical devices, robotics, materials, and information technology. David provides strategic patent portfolio development and intellectual property advice for clients including major research institutions, multinational corporations, and start-up companies. He also performs patent due diligence to assess patent portfolios for venture capital investment, mergers and acquisitions, and licensing opportunities. He is a prolific writer and speaker on intellectual property law.  He is also someone who has held numerous leadership roles in bar associations, industry groups, and philanthropic organizations. David is the founding co-chair of the ABA’s Medical Devices Committee. He was honored as one of Boston's "40 Under 40" innovative business leaders by the Boston Business Journal and was named to the "40 Medtech Innovators Under 40" list by Medical Device & Diagnostic Industry (MD+DI) Magazine. David has also been named one of the top 250 Patent and Technology Licensing Practitioners in the world by Intellectual Asset Management (IAM) Magazine, an "IP Star" by Managing IP magazine, a "Life Science Star" by LMG Life Sciences, one of the World's Leading IP Strategists in the IAM 300, and listed in Chambers as an IP practitioner. Additional Resources Episode 39-An In-house Career in the Life Sciences 47 Inexpensive ways to Build Business Relationships Episode 18-Starting Business Conversations at Networking Functions and Beyond Defining Your Target is the First Step in Effective Marketing

In this episode, I speak with Steve Fretzin, a premier business coach, trainer, and speaker on business development.  Steve focuses on the legal industry but comes with experience in other industries as well.  Steve and I discuss the importance of networking in building a professional services practice, how you can get more out of your networking meetings, and how to do this in a time of social distancing. The ability to generate work has never been more important for lawyers and other professionals. We are in a recession right now and adapting to the demands of the marketplace is critical.  But knowing what services your clients want is only a starting point.  A good business plan requires a healthy mix of marketing (or reputation building activities) and business development (or relationship building activities).  For lawyers and other professionals, it is the second leg, the relationship building, that is more challenging to master. Attorneys come out of law school knowing something about a broad cross section of legal subjects.  Law school graduates enter the workforce knowing how and do legal research and write briefs.  While clinics and internships help aspiring lawyers to start learning how to do deals, litigate cases, or counsel clients, most lawyers enter practice with limited knowledge of how to build and manage a law practice.   In particular, as lawyers begin their careers, they often know little about building business relationships. On this podcast, we’ve talked many times about the tremendous importance of relationship building whether to set the stage for a future job move or whether it is to generate clients and cultivate referral sources.  In this episode, we focus on the networking meeting and its close cousin, the troika which is a networking format that Steve and I participate in through our business networking group ProVisors. Steve Fretzin has been coaching and training professionals on business growth for over 20 years. His focus for the past 13 has been working with lawyers to dramatically grow their law practices. In addition to being a regular contributor for the Chicago Daily Law Bulletin, Steve has written three books on legal growth. His most recent endeavor is his podcast show BE THAT LAWYER, where he interviews rainmakers, marketing gurus and legal industry insiders to provide tips and insights for his attorney audience.  He lives in Chicago. Other Networking Resources Is Your Networking Working Ways to Leverage Your Network 8 Do’s and Don’ts of Dating—and Networking Etiquette 11 Ways to Reciprocate in Networking Starting Business Conversations at Networking Functions and Beyond Be Interested; Be Interesting Overcoming Fear of Networking Using Affinity to Build Business Relationships-a Podcast w/Stephen Seckler Documenting Your Networking 47 Inexpensive ways to Build Business Relationships Building Business Relationships 101-Where to Begin Generating Leads Making Selling Easier for Lawyers-Transcript from Legal Toolkit Podcast

In this episode, I speak with Lisa Cukier, a partner at the law firm Burns and Levinson in Boston.  Lisa practices in a number of related areas.  We talk about how she has built what she calls a concierge practice.  We also discuss what it has been like to serve on the executive committee of her firm, and how she has modified her own marketing and business development in a time of social distancing. Whenever I am thinking about guests to invite on this podcast, I look for lawyers and other professionals who are good role models.  Law is a competitive and stressful business.  If you want to maintain and build your career satisfaction in a law firm, it is important to keep evolving your practice and get involved in non-practice activities that give you fulfillment. Lisa Cukier, is someone who has done that on many levels. She has developed an aggressively creative and emotionally intelligent approach to managing family conflict and mental health law issues.  She has also increased her own enjoyment in the practice of law by getting involved in law firm management.  And she is someone who gets energized from building relationships with her referral sources. Lisa Cukier is a Partner and Executive Committee member at Burns and Levinson, a firm of about 125 lawyers. She concentrates her practice on all aspects of estate and trust litigation, fiduciary litigation, probate law, child custody, parentage issues and divorce.  She also works on guardianship and conservatorship matters,  elder financial exploitation, matters and serves as concierge trustee for many clients who feel protected by her approach to problem resolution.  Her work includes representation of blended families. Lisa is a frequent speaker and author on the topics of trust and estate litigation, estate planning, and family law, including undue influence and financial exploitation of elders. She was named to the 2019 "Top Women of Law" list by Massachusetts Lawyers Weekly and named a National Law Journal - Divorce, Trusts & Estates Trailblazer in 2017. Lisa is considered one of the most tactical, passionate and aggressively creative attorneys in her field. She is the attorney that other attorneys refer their complicated and multi-issue laden or "unresolvable" cases. Cukier serves as trustee and fiduciary for her clients upon request, orchestrating high-touch concierge level service to her clients who wish to have her personal oversight of their multiple life affairs. Attorneys refer their clients to her to serve as a private adjudicator for creative resolution of challenging custody and guardianship disputes.

Law is a conservative profession.  In law school we read the great appellate decisions and learned about the tremendous importance of precedent in our legal system.  In truth, the law is always evolving and adapting to changing societal attitudes and new developments in business, the sciences and technology.  New statutes and regulations are always being adopted to address new legal concerns and even case law evolves. If you want to remain relevant in the profession, it is important to keep reinventing yourself.  The current pandemic and accompanying financial upheaval underscores this.  In the past two months, for example, every business and employment lawyer has needed to become an expert on the CARES act.  In the past 2 years, every corporation that collects any personal data has had to learn how to comply with the California Consumer Privacy Act, GDPR in Europe and similar state privacy statutes. The digitization of our economy has had a particularly strong impact on our legal system.  It has never been easier to create, store and copy massive amounts of data.  This has had great implications for privacy, the protection of intellectual property rights and the tension between IP protection and creating strong incentives for innovation.  Lawyers will continue to play a key role in shaping and interpreting the competing legal interests of law enforcement, private citizens, businesses and artists.  So where are the career opportunities in the midst of all of this disruption? In this episode, my guest, Professor Jessica Silbey, answers that question.  Professor Silbey is Director of the Center for Law, Innovation and Creativity at Northeastern University School of Law (also known as CLIC).  She is a leading scholar and nationally recognized expert on intellectual property and the use of film to communicate about law.  Professor Silbey is the author of several books on intellectual property, creativity and invention. She studies the role that intellectual property plays to sustain and frustrate creative and innovative communities. She is a frequent presenter at national and international conferences, and a Guggenheim fellow. CLIC combines the study of innovation and creativity with Northeastern University School of Law's social justice mission. The faculty teach courses on information security, privacy regulation, entertainment and media law, intellectual property, Internet and e-commerce, lawyering and entrepreneurship, and creative communities.

The need for pro bono legal services for the poor has never been greater. Prior to the pandemic, legal services agencies were only able to meet a portion of the need. For example, due to lack of funding, legal aid programs in Massachusetts were forced to turn away 57 percent of residents who sought help last year. With the coming recession and millions of families in this country facing food and housing insecurity, this gap will surely widen. Pro bono lawyering will be needed to meet the great demand and fill the gap. In this episode, I am very pleased to welcome Sue Finegan who is a nationally recognized leader in pro bono representation. When I first spoke to Sue a year ago about being on the show, I thought it would be a good opportunity to talk about how pro bono can help build your legal skills and increase your career satisfaction. Today I feel it is a moral imperative to encourage practicing lawyers to do their part in proving pro bono legal services.  I invited Sue to talk about the benefits of doing pro bono work and where she thinks the needs will be in the coming year.  We also discuss how she has carved out her own unique career path and found great satisfaction in doing well by doing good. I’m thrilled to talk to someone who has dedicated her career to the cause. Sue is a Member of the law firm Mintz Levin, an AmLaw 100 firm based in Boston.  She is a nationally recognized pro bono pioneer with exceptional advocacy skills and a passion for helping underserved populations. As chair of Mintz’s Pro Bono Committee, she leads groundbreaking cases and manages pro bono matters for the firm. She helped to defeat President Trump’s first immigration travel ban in early 2017, engineer the passage of a Massachusetts restraining order law for sexual assault survivors, and create several innovative statewide model pro bono programs in Massachusetts. Sue was appointed the firm’s first Pro Bono Partner in 2007and manages the firm’s pro bono efforts, consisting of over 300 varied cases annually.  She also advises firm clients on developing and sustaining pro bono programs within their in-house legal departments. As member and current co-chair of the Massachusetts Access to Justice Commission for several years, Sue has been a tireless and innovative advocate for low income people in Massachusetts and beyond. Additional Resources MassProBono is a good starting place in Massachusetts The ABA is compiling a list of students interested in providing pro bono assistance. The registration form can be found here. This directory of non-profits seeking pro bono assistance PSJD, https://www.psjd.org (designed for students seeking public interest career opportunities, but is a great way to learn about different legal services agencies and can be searched by city, state) Pro Bono Net, https://www.probono.net/network/volunteer (offers easy ways to search by region and issue area to allow students to hone in on organizations they want to pursue, and may have specific opportunities for law students posted as well).

All professional athletes eventually face the same challenge: when to retire and what to do after retirement. For the most part, an athlete’s career is limited in time because of the physical demands of job. Lawyers on the other hand do not face these constraints. There are many lawyers who practice well into their 70’s or 80’s and some who never choose to retire.  But for many law firms and for many law firm partners, this is not an optimal strategy.   Healthy businesses need a healthy succession plan and after 40 years in practice, many lawyers are ready for some sort of change. As the pandemic has caused many law firms and partners to rethink their priorities, the issue of what to do with senior partners has become more timely. Firms are already under a lot of under a lot of financial stress. A lack of succession planning only adds to this. In this episode, I am pleased to welcome back Larry Stybel of Stybel Peabody.  At the beginning of the year, before the pandemic became a reality for most of us, Larry and I spoke about finding happiness in the practice of law.  This time, Larry and I discuss the challenges that seniority presents to both law firms and to aging partners. For over 40 years, Larry has been providing outplacement, executive search and leadership coaching to law firms and corporations.  He co-authors a regular column on leadership and career management for PSYCHOLOGY TODAY.  He also co-authored the book Navigating the Waterfall: Your Guide to Job Search and Career Management. Stybel Peabody received the "Best in Class" Award in Outplacement four times from the Massachusetts Lawyers’ Weekly Reader Preference Survey.  I met Larry and his wife and business partner, Maryanne Peabody, 20 years ago when I was starting my own recruiting and coaching business.  I was very pleased to reconnect with him last year through my business networking group ProVisors.  I have really appreciated the insights Larry has been able to share with me about my own career.  Larry brings years of experience in talent management and career success.

For some associates, partnership is the ultimate career goal.  But for many lawyers, a plum in-house job is the real brass ring. In this episode, I welcome Mark Levine who has won the brass ring several times in his career. Mark is General Counsel and Secretary at Flexion Therapeutics, a commercial stage biotech company.   Mark and I speak about his path in-house, how his role has changed as he has moved into a GC position and how in-house practice differs from private practice.  We also talk about the challenges he faces in running a law department during the pandemic and what advice he has for lawyers seeking similar roles. Mark has expertise in corporate, commercial, and securities law and transactions.  He has experience in corporate  governance   and  public disclosure, mergers and acquisitions and operating   in highly regulated environments.  He has built several law departments and worked in a number of industries. Related Episodes Episode 19-Canoeing vs. Whitewater Rafting-A Career Conversation with Jose Sierra Episode 16-Changing Industries Episode 14-From Biglaw to Government to In-house Episode 2-In-House with Walt Pollard

In this episode, I continue my Glass Ceiling Series with my guest Lauren Resnick, who is the Chief Practice Partner for the national law firm BakerHostetler.  Lauren is someone who not only broke through the glass ceiling at an AmLaw 100 firm, but she did it as a part-time attorney.  I speak with Lauren about her path from the public sector back into private practice, and what it has been like being part-time.  We also discuss some of the challenges of being in a management role at a major law firm and how she has continually reinvented herself throughout her career. This interview was conducted in early March before the reality of COVID had really sunk in for many of us.  At the time, Lauren and her firm had already developed a practice group to address the legal issues that are raised by the pandemic, a testament to her ability to think in a highly strategic manner. As Chief Practice Partner, Lauren Resnick is responsible for the firm’s delivery of legal services and management of the firm’s legal talent.  She is a partner in the White Collar and Corporate Investigations team of BakerHostetler. She focuses her practice on internal investigations, white collar criminal defense and regulatory compliance matters. Previously, she served as an Assistant U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of New York, where she was chief of the Computer Crimes and Intellectual Property Section. She was a two-time recipient of the Department of Justice (DOJ) Director's Award for Superior Performance, she is regularly retained by executive management and audit committees of Fortune 500 corporations to conduct internal investigations on Foreign Corrupt Practices Act (FCPA), anti-money laundering (AML), fraud, antitrust, international trade and sanctions compliance, and other regulatory compliance issues. As a member of the BakerHostetler team serving as counsel to the Securities Investor Protection Act (SIPA), Lauren supervised the extensive financial reconstruction of the decades-long operations of Bernie Madoff for the ongoing liquidation and litigation proceedings. In addition to her practice, Lauren serves as the firmwide client relationship partner and a member of the firm’s policy committee. She is also the firm's compliance practice team lead and the administrative partner for the New York office.

In this episode, I return to a conversation I started with Dr. Inna Khazan, a clinical psychologist on the faculty at Harvard Medical School. I spoke to Dr. Khazan back in February about the ways she uses mindfulness-based biofeedback to help lawyers and other professionals to achieve optimal performance in stressful situations. In our latest interview, Dr. Khazan discusses how to use these techniques to manage the stress brought on by the global Coronavirus pandemic. She offers practical suggestions for managing the heightened anxiety most of us are experiencing.  Included in this podcast is a short guided meditation to help demonstrate the power of mindfulness. Dr. Inna Khazan is a nationally recognized expert in mindfulness-based biofeedback. She is the founder of ARETE Institute for Performance Excellence. As a licensed clinical psychologist, she specializes. in biofeedback and mindfulness-based approaches to optimizing health and performance. At Harvard Medical School, Dr. Khazan teaches and supervises trainees. She is considered to be a pioneer in the area of mindfulness-based biofeedback. She has conducted biofeedback and mindfulness trainings for notable institutions in the US and abroad, including the US Navy Special Warfare, US Army Special Forces, and the Stuttgart Opera and Ballet Company and author of numerous publications and a frequent speaker all over the country.  

In this special episode, I provide you with 7 Career Management Tips for dealing with the current COVID crisis.  I’d also like to make you the following offer: If you are feeling isolated or just want someone to help you reflect on your career or on your efforts to build a practice, I would like to offer you the chance to connect with me by Zoom. I’m happy to be a sounding board and help you think about how to be more productive over the next few weeks or months.  We are now living through the snow day of all snow days!  Even if you or your family’s health has not been affected by the coronavirus (and I hope it hasn’t), surely every other aspect of your life has been turned upside down.  For most of us, there have been great disruptions at work (at a minimum, projects put on hold, meetings and court appearances postponed, employees working remotely). These disruptions can impact our productivity in many ways.  For me personally, I’ve been moving meetings on-line, stocking up at BJs, dealing with elderly parents, helping my daughter who is studying abroad to navigate her early return, etc.  But with every crisis, there are also opportunities. So here are a few things to consider as we get used to the new normal: In ordinary times, self-care is important.  In times like these, it is critical. Make time for exercise. If going to the gym isn’t possible, there are lots of workout regimens you can follow on YouTube from the comfort of your own living room.  If that is not your thing, try jogging, power walking or bike riding. Personally, I like power walking because it allows lots of time to listen to podcasts. While it isn’t quite the same as going to the gym for many of us, it’s still an important part of self-care.  If you haven’t already taken up meditation, now may be a good time. Aside from the health benefits of meditation, mindfulness can improve your ability to focus in stressful situations. There are lots of apps on the web.  Some are subscription based and some are free. I like 10 Percent Happier.  I’ve heard good things about Headspace. If you find yourself with more time on your hands, this is a great opportunity to beef up your on-line presence. Does your LinkedIn profile need work?  Have you been putting off updating the bio on your firm’s website? Do you project a clear message about what differentiates you from other attorneys? Do you have representative examples of matters you have worked on and industries or types of individuals who you have served?  Does someone visiting your website get to know anything about what it is like to work with you? Are there testimonials to support this? If you check out the blog or resources tabs on my website, you will find a lot more on both of these topics. How About Adding a Podcast to Your Legal Marketing Toolkit or starting a blog (or contributing to your firm’s blog)?  For information on starting a podcast, check out the interview I did with Jared Correia or feel free to set up a time for an informal consult with me. Pull together a workshop or presentation you can deliver when things get back to “normal” (or put together a webinar which you can deliver now). Think about common questions that your clients ask and use that as the subject matter.  Find alternative ways to connect. I’ve long been a proponent of getting out of the office.  Building your own practice requires you to build your relationships with clients, potential clients and referral sources.  While going virtual makes this harder, it doesn’t make it impossible. With tools like Zoom, FaceTime and Skype, connecting virtually has never been easier and now is a great time to learn how to use them.  Many of your clients may be feeling isolated. Rather than checking up on them by phone or email, try setting up a session on Zoom. ProVisors , a great business networking group, is doing that very successfully.  I’ve already been to two virtual meetings that worked well. One had 30 attendees. Take a step back to reflect on whether you are leading the professional life you want to lead. Talk to me or another career coach.  Take stock in whether your firm is the right platform to grow your practice or whether you want to be in a law firm at all. Try one of my self-assessment tools (A Career Audit for Associates or 20 Questions For Law Firm Partners). A crisis like COVID-19 can be a major distraction from achieving our personal and professional goals.  The best way to survive the crisis is to look for the opportunities and to keep moving forward. Personally, I’m looking forward to growing my familiarity with Zoom. I’m hoping to use the tool to reach out to people in my network who I have not had time to meet in person.  I also hope to queue up some more marketing collateral which I’ll be ready to deploy as the world comes back to life. If you want help thinking through any of this, I’m always happy to hear from you. I always enjoy speaking to lawyers about their marketing or their careers.  Most importantly, if you are feeling isolated, find ways to connect with friends, family and colleagues. When this is all over, you will be better positioned to build your practice and progress in your career.  Be safe!

Electoral politics has always been a career option for attorneys. The halls of Congress and state houses across the country are filled with elected officials who have earned their law degrees.  Legal training helps legislators understand how the bills they want to pass fit into a broader legal context.  Having a JD gives you credibility to run for office.  But what are the options for attorneys who are considering a run for public office. How does being in public office differ from the practice of law?  How does law school prepare you for being a legislator? In this episode, I speak with State Senator Becca Rausch of Massachusetts.  Senator Rausch and I discuss careers in public office and what it has been like for her to leave the practice of law to become a legislator in the higher chamber of the Massachusetts State Legislature.  We talk about her decision to seek public office, what was the path for winning the election, what was it like to come to the State House and what have been her legislative priorities since joining the Senate. I ask her what advice she has for attorneys who are aspiring for public office. Becca Rausch represents the Norfolk, Bristol and Middlesex District of the Massachusetts State Senate which covers cities and towns from Wayland in the north to Attleboro in the South. Prior to joining the Senate, Becca was an associate attorney at two mid-sized firms in Boston, taught civil procedure and health law as a visiting faculty member at Seattle University School of Law, and served as the first ever Secretariat e-discovery attorney in the history of the Massachusetts executive branch.

In this episode, I speak with Jared Correia, one of the pioneers in legal podcasting.  Jared was a huge mentor to me when I was launching the Counsel to Counsel podcast back in 2018 and I’m very pleased to welcome such a seasoned veteran. As of 2019, over half the US population had listened to at least one podcast. In 2019 over 100 million people listened to at least one podcast every week. There are over 700,000 active podcasts and 29 million podcast episodes available. Clearly, the age of podcasting has arrived.  But what is podcasting and how can you use it to market your legal services?  What are the mechanics of producing a podcast and how does podcasting interrelate with other legal marketing tools? Jared Correia, a national expert on the subject, sat down with me to answer some of these questions.  I met Jared over a decade ago when Jared was working for the Massachusetts Law Office Assistance Program and I was co-chair of the Massachusetts Bar Association’s Law Practice Management Section. Jared Correia is the Founder and CEO of Red Cave Law Firm Consulting, which offers subscription-based law firm business management consulting and technology services for solo and small law firms.  Red Cave also works with legal institutions and legal-facing corporations to develop programming and content. A former practicing attorney, Jared has been advising lawyers and law firms for over a decade.  He is a regular presenter at local, regional and national events, including ABA TECHSHOW. He regularly contributes to legal publications, including his column, ‘Managing,’ for Attorney at Work, and his ‘Law Practice Confidential’ advice column for Lawyerist.  Jared is the author of the American Bar Association publication ‘Twitter in One Hour for Lawyers’.  He is the host of the Legal Toolkit podcast on Legal Talk Network. Jared also teaches for Concord Law School, Suffolk University Law School and Solo Practice University.   More recently, he co-founded Gideon, a company that offers chatbot software for law firms to help attorneys automatically qualify leads, book consults, route leads to the right lawyer or staff person, and create new client matters, 24/7/365.

In this episode, I  welcome Dr. Inna Khazan, a clinical psychologist who is a nationally recognized expert in mindfulness and biofeedback.  Dr. Khazan talks about how she helps lawyers and other professionals in stressful jobs to achieve higher levels of performance through biofeedback and mindfulness meditation. Episode 33-Intro Law is a stressful business and there are a lot of efforts underway all over the country to help lawyers address the challenges in the profession. In Massachusetts, for example, we have an organization called Lawyers Concerned for Lawyers which helps attorneys deal with substance abuse and some of the underlying causes of attorney stress.  In the last episode of Counsel to Counsel, I interviewed Heidi Alexander the Deputy Director of the organization about the work they do. Recently, the SJC of Massachusetts created a new Standing Committee on Lawyer Well-Being. The Standing Committee is charged with planning and overseeing efforts to enhance the well-being of lawyers, judges and law students in the Commonwealth. And the recent Report of the Task Force on Lawyer Well-Being, issued by the American Bar Association, Conference of Chief Judges, and other legal organizations, calls well-being an essential element of a lawyer’s duty of competence and recommends mindfulness training as “mindfulness can enhance a host of competencies related to lawyer effectiveness, including increased focus and concentration, working memory, critical cognitive skills, reduced burnout, and ethical and rational decision-making.” While there are many approaches to dealing with stress in the practice of law, mindfulness is one technique that is getting a lot of attention lately. For today’s show, I invited an expert on mindfulness to talk about how she works with attorneys and other professionals to achieve high levels of performance in high stress jobs. Inna Khazan, is the founder of ARETE Institute for Performance Excellence. She is a licensed clinical psychologist specializing in biofeedback and mindfulness-based approaches to optimizing health and performance. Dr. Khazan is a faculty member at Harvard Medical School, where she teaches and supervises trainees. She is considered to be a pioneer in the area of mindfulness-based biofeedback. Dr. Khazan is a popular speaker at national and international conferences and prestigious institutions on the topics of biofeedback and mindfulness.  She has conducted biofeedback and mindfulness trainings for notable institutions in the US and abroad, including the US Navy Special Warfare, US Army Special Forces, and the Stuttgart Opera and Ballet Company. She is the author of numerous publications including her most recent book Biofeedback and Mindfulness in Everyday Life: Practical Solutions for Improving Your Health and Performance, and the highly-regarded Clinical Handbook of Biofeedback: A Step-by-Step Guide to Training and Practice with Mindfulness, published by Wiley Blackwell. Other Mindfulness Resources Ten Percent Happier (Dan Harris, an ABC News personality, brings mindfulness to skeptics with his book, app and podcast; tons of content and a great place to start for a modest annual fee--look for discounts)

In this episode, I speak with Heidi Alexander, Deputy Director of the non-profit organization Lawyers Concerned for Lawyers.  Heidi helps manage LCLs operations and leads the organization’s law practice management program known as Mass LOMAP (the Law Office Management Assistance Program). Episode 32 Introduction In 2020, it has never been easier to run your own law practice.  On-line tools for marketing, accounting, document assembly and contact management have never been more affordable or easier to use.   But launching a law practice is not for the faint of heart. My guest Heidi Alexander talks about some of the challenges in launching and managing a small law firm and how Mass LOMAP is a great resource to help lawyers get started.  We also discuss how Heidi decided to pursue an alternative legal career and the challenges she had in making her own transition. Not long after Heidi graduated from law school, she became very interested in law firm management.  She completed a judicial clerkship, practiced for a year and then joined Mass LOMAP in 2012.  Since joining LOMAP, she has worked with solo practitioners and small firm attorneys to  develop healthy, sustainable, and productive law practices.  Heidi is an avid speaker on topics ranging from time management and productivity to legal technology, and an author of numerous articles and a book published by the American Bar Association's Law Practice Management Division, "Evernote as a Law Practice Tool".  This year she is a chair of the American Bar Association‘s TECHSHOW Conference. Additional Resources ABA Legal Technology Resource Center Law Technology Today  Law Sites Blog Mass LOMAP Lawyers Concerned for Lawyers SJC Lawyer Well-Being Report Leveraging Your Blog Posts and Saving Time with TextExpander

In this episode, I speak with Hether Cahill. Hether is a partner at the Boston law firm Burns & Levinson where she handles probate litigation.  Hether and I discuss the path to partnership for women and why she likes family conflict. Introduction The majority of law school graduates are now women. Despite this demographic change, the growth of women in partnership ranks in major law firms continues to stagnate. While there are many explanations for this (women still bear a greater burden for child rearing than men and are penalized for that; men have some advantages in cultivating business relationships), there are women who manage to buck the trend and break through the glass ceiling. Over the next few months I will be interviewing women who have achieved this and made it past the barriers. They will be telling their stories, what it was like then and offer tips for younger women are hoping to elevate their legal careers. Hether Cahill is one of those women. I met Hether through my ProVisors networking group and I was impressed with her enthusiasm for handling family conflict, something that many of us would much rather avoid. But Hether’s obvious enjoyment of this work is infectious so I invited her to be on the show. Hether grew up as the daughter of a single mother who was practicing law in Berkshire County. Her mother was a great role model for her and today Hether enjoys being a part of the partnership ranks at one of Boston's prominent midsize law firms.  Hether talks about what it is like to be a female partner at a major firm and offers some advice for younger lawyers who share her ambition.

For over two decades, I have been reading articles in the popular and legal press about unhappy lawyers. The unpleasant issues and people that lawyers have to deal with, the lack of control over outcomes, the isolation and the long hours all add up to a population of professionals who are questioning their career choice or looking for an exit. While there certainly are a large number of lawyers who experience dissatisfaction in the law, I regularly speak to attorneys who are very happy with their career choice.  I try to feature some of those attorneys in this podcast series. Sure, nothing is perfect, but for these attorneys, law offers exposure to novel issues, the chance to earn a good living and the opportunity to work with bright individuals on challenging problems. Some find satisfaction in learning about cutting edge legal topics. Still others enjoy the service aspect of practicing law or even the chance to do pro bono work. In this episode, I speak with Larry Stybel of Stybel Peabody.  Since the late 1970s, Larry has been doing outplacement and leadership coaching.  He has also been doing retained search for board members and the C suite. Larry has worked closely with the legal profession for many years.  Stybel Peabody received the "Best in Class" Award in Outplacement four times from the Massachusetts Lawyers’ Weekly Reader Preference Survey.  He co-authors a regular column on leadership and career management for PSYCHOLOGY TODAY. I met Larry and his wife and business partner, Maryanne Peabody, 20 years ago when I was starting my own recruiting and coaching business.  I was very pleased to reconnect with him this year through my business networking group Provisors.  I have really appreciated the insights Larry has been able to share with me about my own marketing. Larry has thought a lot about how lawyers can increase their career satisfaction.   I invited Larry to talk about some of the ways lawyers can structure their work to achieve this goal. Related Career Resources A Career Audit for Associates (a questionnaire to help you assess your current law firm position) 20 Questions For Law Firm Partners (a similar questionnaire for partners) Career Paths: Mapping Out Your Future (Program Notes from a Boston Bar Association Panel Discussion) Making a Lateral Move: Are You Ready? Canoeing vs. Whitewater Rafting (a podcast about navigating career moves)

Thirty years ago, legal marketing was in its infancy and the focus in the practice of law was on doing great work for your clients.  Provide high quality legal services and more would come (and so would referrals). In the 1980s, as marketing became more acceptable in the legal profession (both culturally and ethically), lawyers began to spend more time looking for ways to promote their services.  Initially, the emphasis was on the same types of marketing that had long been used by other industries and professions (direct mail, advertising, speaking at conferences, publishing, etc.)  But by the 1990’s, there was a growing recognition that marketing was a more passive activity and business development (or business relationship building) needed to be part of the mix.  At the same time, by the 2000’s, most law firms had websites and lawyers had began blogging. By the mid to late 2000’s, social media was beginning to take off. And e-mail marketing was thrown into the mix. Today, a good marketing strategy should employ a healthy mix of marketing and business development. One tool that has been around for 20 years is e-newsletters.  In this episode of C2C, I welcome Michael Katz, an expert in marketing professional services and someone who knows a lot about e-newsletters, social media and the full array of tools that are available to market your law practice. Michael Katz, is an award-winning humorist and former corporate marketer. He is the founder of Blue Penguin where his is Chief Penguin and where he specializes in helping professional service firms and solos talk/write about their work in a way that is clear and compelling. Since launching Blue Penguin in 2000, Michael has been quoted in The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, Business Week Online, Bloomberg TV, Forbes.com, Inc.com, USA Today, and other national and local media. He is the author of four books, and has published more than 400 issues of “The Likeable Expert Gazette,” a twice-monthly email newsletter and podcast with 6,000 passionate subscribers in over 40 countries around the world. Michael has an MBA from Boston University and a BA in Psychology from McGill University in Montreal. He also has a second degree black belt in karate, a first degree black belt in parenting (three children), and is a past winner of the New England Press Association award for “Best Humor Columnist.” I met Michael through my business networking group Provisors which I have been touting now for months.  Michael is someone who has taught me the value of focusing your marketing message. He does many things but his identity with Provisors is the person to go to if you want to produce a newsletter for your practice. Additional Resources Sign up for Michael Katz's Free Newsletter More business development and marketing resources on the Counsel to Counsel website

In this episode of Counsel to Counsel, I take a break from the ordinary discussion of legal careers to speak with my father-in-law William Gamson.  In our interview, Bill talks about his career, his love of baseball and how he combined the two.  Bill Gamson is a sociologist who is well known for his work involving social movements and media framing.  He is also well known for developing several highly successful simulation games that he created in order to shift his own teaching away from a lecture model.  In addition, during the Vietnam War, Bill organized the first anti-war teach-ins at the University of Michigan. While many sociologists know Bill for his professional work and as a past president of the American Sociological Association, Bill is also a pioneer in the world of fantasy sports. In 1960, he formed a forerunner of the fantasy baseball league that he called The Baseball Seminar.  There is a direct connection from Bill’s game to the rotisserie leagues that took hold in the 1980s. Dan Okrent, who proposed the rules for a league to his friends in a New York City restaurant La Rotisserie Francaise in 1980, came up with the idea after talking to the Michigan historian Robert Sklar, a regular participant in William Gamson’s “Seminar”. Bill talks about how The Baseball Seminar grew in part from his academic understanding of statistics.  It also became a way for him to build professional relationships with academics all over the country. And it influenced Bill in developing the simulation game SIMSOC as a more effective way to teach his students about economic inequality, justice, diversity, trust, power dynamics, and leadership. There is a message here for lawyers:  if you find ways to enhance your career that go beyond the straight practice of law, you will have a more fulfilling career.  You’ll also make more connections, have more fun and you may even end up with a Wikipedia page!

I’ve been working with lawyers for over two decades to help them hone their networking skills. At the same time, I’m always looking for ways to improve my own effectiveness in business relationship building. And so I was intrigued when a number of lawyers mentioned to me that they had joined a great business networking group called Provisors. Groups like this have always appealed to me but it had been a long time since I had participated in a more structured networking group. In the early 2000s, I formed my own group of professionals who were selling services to the legal profession. It was a great way to connect with other vendors to the legal community but it was small and eventually the group fizzled out. In the interim, I have continued to participate actively in Bar Association activities and over the years, I’ve participated in a number of nonprofits. But I knew I was missing out on having a more structured way to expand my professional network. Then this past Spring, I sat down for coffee with today’s guest and since that time, my professional networking has speeded up dramatically. With her encouragement, I decided to join Provisors. And it has been a game changer for me. On today’s show, I am very pleased to welcome Jennifer Taddeo, a partner at the law firm Conn Kavanaugh in Boston. Jenn speaks with me about what she has learned about networking and how Provisors has been tremendously helpful in building her own network. She shares some great tips for getting the greatest benefit from the group and how to increase your networking effectiveness more generally. I also speak with Jenn about her own career transitions and what general advice she has for women looking to advance in the law. Jennifer D. Taddeo is a partner at Conn Kavanaugh in Boston where she concentrates her practice in estate planning, tax planning, business succession planning, trust and estate administration, elder law and long term care planning, as well as special needs planning.  She provides service to individuals, families, fiduciaries, entrepreneurs, and business owners. She is experienced in drafting wills, revocable and irrevocable trusts, and other estate planning documents. Additional Networking Resources Is Your Networking Working Ways to Leverage Your Network 8 Do’s and Don’ts of Dating—and Networking Etiquette 11 Ways to Reciprocate in Networking Be Interested; Be Interesting Overcoming Fear of Networking Using Affinity to Build Business Relationships-a Podcast w/Stephen Seckler Documenting Your Networking 47 Inexpensive ways to Build Business Relationships

In this episode, I welcome Josh Rissmiller, a corporate partner at the Boston law firm Feinberg Hanson.  Josh began his career at two large and very prominent firms in New York and in Boston. In this show, he talks about his transition, what it was like to leave a large firm and lessons he has learned along the way.  Episode 27-Intro There are many advantages of starting your career at a large firm.  It is hard to compete with the training you get as an associate at an AmLaw 100 firm.  The clients tend to be larger and the legal issues tend to be more complex.  Overall, the caliber of lawyering is very high. Some lawyers who launch their careers at these firms will eventually be elevated to partner. The reality today, is that most associates will never make partner at a big firm.  Many don’t want to make partner or if they do, the path to partnership is long. In addition to long hours, the clients are demanding and the high bill rates make it challenging to build your own practice.  At the same time, their are fewer seats at the table than there were 30 years ago. If you are an associate at an AmLaw 100 or 200 firm, the odds are good that you will leave by the time you are in your 8th year.  But where will you go? For some, the next step in the career is a move to a smaller firm where hours are better and bill rates are lower.  For others, a move in-house is the next step.  So what do you gain when you move to a smaller law firm?  What do you give up? What is challenging about leaving a large firm? Josh Rissmiller is a corporate lawyer with the law firm Feinberg Hanson in Boston.  Several years ago he left a promising career at a large firm to join a sophisticated corporate boutique in Boston.  Originally, Josh thought about making an in-house move; but then he began to explore a move to a smaller firm and he liked what he saw.  He hasn’t looked back. For the past ten years, Josh has been helping entrepreneurs, high growth companies and private equity firms successfully complete mergers and acquisitions, private equity transactions and investments in emerging companies. He also provides counsel on day-to-day corporate legal needs such as routine contracts and employee agreements. He has represented a diverse group of clients across many industries but has a particular focus on technology and life sciences. Josh enjoys working with both investment-side and company-side clients to craft creative solutions to deal-related issues. He has worked on mergers valued in the billions as well as seed financings valued in the thousands. Many of the matters have involved transactions with complex structures, such as tender offers, fund formations, minority private equity investments, joint ventures, recapitalizations, spin-offs, and purchase option transactions. Other Resources Career Paths: Mapping Out Your Future (Program Notes from a Boston Bar Association Panel Discussion) A Career Audit for Associates

In this episode, I speak with Beth Masterman of Masterman Executive Coaching.  Beth is a talented professional with degrees in law, psychology and certifications in coaching.  I met Beth many years ago but reconnected with her more recently through Provisors, a terrific business networking group that she has been active in since 2012 (I just joined in June).   I talk with Beth about what coaching is, how it can help lawyers, how she approaches coaching and how she transitioned from a successful career in PR and government relations. My Own Journey into Coaching Back in 1996 when I was thinking about leaving my non-profit job at Massachusetts Continuing Legal Education, I wanted to launch a recruiting business.  At the same time, I discovered that a new discipline was growing in popularity, coaching.  As it was explained to me, coaching was a way to achieve higher levels of performance, get past roadblocks that were impeding my success and happiness.  It was also a way to have a sounding board. I decided to work with a coach and eventually hired a more business-oriented coach.  The work I did with these coaches was invaluable as I was becoming an entrepreneur.  I was hooked. It then became clear to me that lawyers could really benefit from this service.  In my effort to try to be a different kind of recruiter, I decided that I would offer both recruiting and coaching services and so I launched Seckler Legal Consulting (which I later renamed Seckler Legal Recruiting and Coaching). Since that time, I’ve met a very nice community of professionals who like myself, are committed to the success of others.  Beth Masterman is one of those individuals. Beth Masterman Was Recently Named Number One Executive Coach in the Massachusetts Lawyers Weekly Readers Rankings Awards Beth is a certified and credentialed by the International Coach Federation. She earned a Graduate Certificate in Executive Coaching from William James College in 2011.  She is also certified to administer and interpret the Myers Briggs Type Indicator and a number of other assessment tools. Beth currently serves as the Vice President of Logistics and Event Management on the Board of the International Coach Federation of New England. She earned a J.D. from Boston University School of Law, a Masters in Psychology from Boston University School of Psychology, and a B.A. from Wesleyan University.  After law school, she  worked as an assistant district attorney and as General Counsel to a state senator. She then transitioned into public relations and government relations advising business owners, senior executives, and board committees. In this role, she also assisted elected officials and candidates for office with various aspects of their campaigns. She worked with her clients on a broad range of leadership areas including: goal setting, project management and implementation. As an executive coach, Beth has an ability to consider possibilities and interpret the big picture.  Her comfort with uncertainty and possibility is a grounding force and the hallmark of her approach during coaching sessions.  And she was recently named the Number One Executive Coach in the Massachusetts Lawyers Weekly Readers Rankings awards. Additional Resources Can Hiring a Coach Enhance Your Practice and Your Life (my article published in the ABA’s GPSolo Magazine).  You can also read the article in the full issue of GPSolo. 

Back in the early 1990s when I was at Massachusetts Continuing Legal Education, I worked with some great volunteers who were very generous with their time.  These were leaders of the bar who were committed to training the next generation of lawyers.  While there were many lawyers who were ready willing and able to share their advice, there were a few volunteers who really stood out for their deep commitment to professional development.  John Hession was one of those lawyers. At the time, John was a corporate partner at the law firm Testa Hurwitz and Thibeault.   John was always game to plan and deliver the next CLE program or sit and discuss our corporate curriculum.   He was also integrally involved in the internal training program at his own firm, Testa all while maintaining a busy corporate practice representing VCs and other entities. Since that time, John has traveled through a number of major law firms. He helped open the Boston office of Cooley.  In 2015, he joined Morse, a mid-sized firm with offices in Boston, Cambridge and Waltham. John is an acknowledged authority in the emerging company and venture capital fields, has served as a business strategist and as a legal adviser to more than 400 emerging growth companies.  John has advised these companies on all phases of the enterprise life cycle, from cradle to culmination. He is also the consummate mentor and writes the best out of office messages I’ve ever read. John is now at a stage in his career where he is focusing a significant amount of his time helping up-and-coming talent at his firm to advance their careers. I recently had coffee with John and asked him what junior associates should be thinking about in deciding where to practice.  John had some great advice and when I asked him to join me on Counsel to Counsel, it was no surprise that he said yes. Other Resources Canoeing vs. Whitewater Rafting-A Career Conversation with Jose Sierra (a podcast) Advancing Your Law Firm Career (a podcast)Career Paths: Mapping Out Your Future (Program Notes from a Boston Bar Association Panel Discussion)

Law is a conservative business. Prior to the emergence of the internet, lawyers primarily worked for traditional law firms or in-house.  There really weren’t any other models for the delivery of legal services.  You either showed up every day at your firm job or at your corporate job. Starting in the late 1990s, new models of practice began to emerge.  A group of lawyers who described themselves as outside general counsel began to offer legal services on a consulting basis. Because these individuals were not maintaining fancy offices or office infrastructure, they could offer their services as experienced lawyers on an as needed basis. Since that time, this model has continued to evolve and there are now a range of options for lawyers looking for alternative careers and clients looking for big firm experience at a more reasonable rate structure. In 2002, Bill Stone saw the value of the outsourced GC model and he teamed up with his partner Jon Levitt to form Outside GC.  They wanted to find a way to scale up the outsourced model without simply creating another law firm. Since that time, Outside GC has grown substantially and has been providing outsourced legal services at rates that are far below the rates charged by large law firms.  Under their model, clients have access to senior lawyers who have over a decade of experience working in house.   Lawyers working for Outside GC have a lot of flexibility to work remotely and function like outside lawyers without the administrative costs and time spent on administration in private practice. On today’s show, Bill talks about Outside GC, how he and his partner started the business and how the business has evolved.  He provides some great insights into how working for Outside GC can be a great next step for experienced in-house counsel. Bill has served both as outside general counsel for companies in a variety of industries, and as an executive business development professional. Bill's legal practice focused on international joint ventures, mergers & acquisitions, corporate finance and general corporate counseling, primarily to technology companies. Before co-founding Outside GC, Bill led an international business development team as VP Business Development for eBT International, Inc., a Nasdaq-traded enterprise software company. Prior to that, Bill served as Vice President Corporate Development and General Counsel for Verde Media, Inc., a venture capital-backed media company in San Francisco.  Before joining Verde, Bill practiced law as a partner in the law firm Tonkon Torp LLP, where he co-founded the firm's technology practice group, and acted as general counsel to multiple technology, manufacturing, service and retail companies. Immediately after law school, Bill served as a law clerk in the chambers of the Honorable Mark L. Wolf in the federal district court in Boston, Massachusetts.  He is a graduate of Tufts University where his youngest child is now a freshman and Harvard Law School. Other Resources What I’ve Learned as In-house Counsel- here I surveyed over a hundred in-house attorneys to get their input on what it was like to transition to an in-house role In-house With Walt Pollard-one of my first podcasts.  I interviewed an AGC at BBH who participated in the survey above.  He has some great advice about going in-house From Big Law to Government to In-house-another podcast-my guest has been particularly effective at using networking to advance her career (you can also find my podcasts on iTunes or wherever you get podcasts) Mapping Out Your Future, a career panel I moderated at the BBA  

Health law is a dynamic field that continues to offer law students and attorneys a growing number of traditional and nontraditional practice opportunities. In this episode, I am pleased to welcome Jennifer Huer, Managing Director of the Center for Health Policy and Law at Northeastern University School of Law. Jennifer talks about the Center and the work it is doing to study changes in the healthcare policy landscape.  I also speak with her about the many career opportunities that health law is presenting to the legal community and where she sees in the field heading. Jennifer earned her JD from the University of Richmond School of Law and went on to earn her LL.M. in Health Policy and Law from Northeastern. She worked as a Senior Policy Associate for the Massachusetts Health Policy Commission and since 2016, she has been in her current role at Northeastern.

In this episode, I welcome former U.S. Senator William “Mo” Cowan.  Mo currently serves as President, Global Government Affairs and Policy for General Electric.  Mo talks about his journey from the practice of law to public service and into government affairs. Law School as a Path to Public Service and Government Relations Law school has always been a good path to public service.  Legal training provides an important framework for understanding legislation, regulation and how the judiciary functions and attorneys have a lot of credibility in pursuing these roles. Elected office is a common avenue for lawyers who want to get more involved in Federal, state or local government.  But many lawyers find themselves supporting elected officials in one way or another by serving on their staff. Some stay in private practice and volunteer to serve on local or State boards or commissions. Government relations is another avenue that is open to attorneys who want to be involved in public policy from the industry side. Mo Cowan is someone who has worked as a litigator in private practice, served as a key aide to a Governor, worked for one of the leading government relations firms in Massachusetts, managed litigation and investigations for a major corporation and now manages government relations for the same company. At GE today, Mo is responsible for directing the company’s government relations and public policy engagement in the United States and around the world.  Mo also leads the Global Growth Organizational national executive teams in Europe and Canada. He previously served as Vice President, Litigation and Legal Policy for the Company, overseeing litigation, enforcement proceedings, investigations and compliance globally. Before joining GE, Mo held leadership roles with ML Strategies, a leading government relations and consulting firm, and the law firm Mintz, Levin, Cohn, Ferris, Glovsky and Popeo. On January 30, 2013, Governor Deval L. Patrick appointed Mo to serve as interim United States Senator upon the resignation of John F. Kerry and concluded his Senate service on July 16, 2013. Prior to his Senate appointment, Mo served Governor Patrick in a variety of leadership positions, including Chief Legal Counsel, Chief of Staff, and Senior Advisor. As Chief of Staff, Mo directed strategic planning, investment and operations, including oversight of the state’s multi-billion dollar, annual budgeting process. As chief strategist and crisis manager to the Governor, Mo advised on all domestic and international affairs, intergovernmental relations and gubernatorial appointments and administered all management and personnel functions within the Governor’s office. Before joining Governor Patrick, Mo served as Chair of the Anti-Money Laundering Compliance and Counseling Group at the law firm Mintz Levin. Mo is a graduate of Duke University and Northeastern University School of Law

For law students who want to do good in the world, there are three conventional paths.  Some law students pursue jobs in the public interest and work for non-profit organizations.  Others find jobs in government agencies where there are many opportunities to serve the public good (in local, state or federal government). Still other aspiring attorneys elect to choose a traditional career in private practice and pursue pro bono work on the side.  But there is a fourth way to use your law degree that can satisfy a desire to do good while doing well, go to work for a mission driven practice. There are many examples of mission driven practices.  Some firms focus on representing non-profit institutions in corporate or litigation matters.  Other firms might do civil rights work or represent individual clients who are victims of domestic violence. There are firms that represent labor unions and firms that handle asylum cases.  There are firms that advocate on behalf of special needs children to obtain services that are being denied by school systems. And there are firms that represent profitable businesses that have a mission driven good or service that they provide. My guest in this episode, Jonathan Klavens, represents the last category of mission driven practice.   Jon is the owner of Klavens Law Group.  His practice focuses on meeting the diverse legal needs of companies, investors, public entities and nonprofits in the areas of clean energy/clean technology, sustainable agriculture/aquaculture and food ventures, social enterprise and impact investment. In his practice, he draws on his diverse background in general corporate, securities, project development and finance, fund formation, energy transactional, energy regulatory, environmental and nonprofit matters. Jon founded Klavens Law Group, P.C. in 2007 to help enable innovative ventures that have positive environmental or other social impact. Jon previously practiced law at BCK Law, P.C. and Goodwin Procter LLP, and clerked for the U.S. Court of Appeals for the First Circuit.  He holds a B.A. from Columbia College, a Masters in Public Policy from the Harvard Kennedy School and a J.D. from Northeastern University School of Law, a school which attracts a lot of students looking to make a difference in the world.  

In this edition of Counsel to Counsel, I speak with Rhonda Rittenberg of  Northeastern University School of Law about innovative ways to use a law degree. Rhonda shares some great advice for any lawyer who is looking to apply their legal training in a non-traditional way.  My Own Path to an Alternative Legal Career Started Right After Law School  Back in the 1980s when I was thinking about law school, there was a widespread belief that a law degree opens a lot of doors.  The message I got was that earning a law degree would provide lots of opportunities beyond the traditional practice of law. During college, I had been a community organizer and I thought that earning a JD would help me further develop that career.  I wasn’t particularly interested in practicing and I hardly knew any lawyers. But when I arrived at Northeastern in 1985, I quickly realized that most people attending law school were there to become practicing lawyers and my thinking began to shift.  Like the majority of my classmates, I took coop jobs in a number of legal settings working for the U.S. Attorney, working as a public defender, working for a toxic torts boutique and finally, working in-house for a major university.  There were aspects of these jobs that I enjoyed but after 3 years of law school, I was pretty convinced that law practice was probably not for me. At the same time, my interest in community organizing had waned so I decided to look for a more traditional role in a law firm. The job market was softening at that time and I was finding it difficult to land a role as an associate so I took a job investigating housing discrimination with the US Department of Housing and Urban Development.  Six months after that, I saw that Massachusetts Continuing Legal Education was looking for a law school graduate to plan seminars. One of my NU professors was on the board of the organization and she helped me land the interview.  But I will never forget what she told me. She said if I take this job, it will be very hard to go back to a traditional law position.  I heard her warning but landed the job and worked at MCLE for seven years. I’ve never looked back.   Since leaving MCLE in the mid-1990s, I’ve been a legal recruiter and a business and career coach.  I work closely with lawyers every day to find more career satisfaction and my knowledge of the practice of law is critical to my success. But I’ve been on retirement status from the bar for many years now and very happy I made the decision many years ago. There has always been a place in the economy for law school graduates to apply their law degrees in non- traditional ways. But after the 2008 recession, law schools began thinking more seriously about steering some of their students in the direction of these roles. Today, you’ll find lots of lawyers doing non-traditional things with their careers.  Some are lawyers who go in-house and transition into business roles at their companies.  Today, there are many more options for lawyers who are looking for alternatives right after law school.  Rhonda Rittenberg is Creating These Job Opportunities for Northeastern Law Students  My guest today, Rhonda Rittenberg, has been instrumental in developing alternative career opportunities for students at my alma mater, Northeastern University. Rhonda is the Director of New Markets at Northeastern University School of Law where she creates opportunities for students and recent graduates in new, emerging and growth areas. She leads an outreach campaign designed to develop strategic partnerships with a wide range of employers in different industry sectors. Rhonda develops programming to showcase lawyers using their degrees in innovative and interdisciplinary ways and collaborates with faculty and staff on developing curricular enhancements to incorporate knowledge and skills desired for success in New Markets.  She also advises law students and recent graduates on career paths.   She is active in NALP, the National Association for Law Placement and has served as a panelist at recent conferences. She also co-chairs NALP’s JD Advantage Work Group.  Prior to joining the staff at Northeastern, Rhonda had a long and successful legal career. She has held both legal and business positions, most recently serving as a Senior Vice President and Senior Associate General Counsel and Senior Reinsurance Officer at Lexington Insurance Company.   Prior to that, she was a partner with Prince, Lobel Tye LLP and Morrison Mahoney LLP in Boston, focusing her practice on reinsurance, insurance coverage and complex commercial litigation and arbitration matters.   She holds a J.D. from Northeastern University School of Law where she actually graduated a year before me!  Related Episodes of Counsel to Counsel  A Career in PrivacyThe Environmental EntrepreneurCanoeing vs. Whitewater Rafting-A Career Conversation with Jose Sierra

When I counsel lawyers on their careers, I always encourage them to get out of their office and network with other professionals.  Sitting at your desk, you can make lists of the things you like about your current position and the things you would like to change.  You can do an inventory of the skills you have and think about your values. If I’m working with an attorney on career satisfaction, I might also have them make lists of their professional and personal interests and think about the type of work environment that feels right. But getting away from your desk is very important when you want to gain perspective on your career.  Meeting with lawyers or other individuals who have the job you think you would ultimately like to have is invaluable.  When I was in college many years ago, the book What Color is Your Parachute was very popular. While the themes in the book may have changed (I haven’t read any of the 35+ annual revisions that have come out since I graduated) the basic gist of the book was to figure out what you like to do, what you are good at and then start pursuing a career that leads you in that direction. What I’ve learned since that time is that careers are not at all linear.  They meander back and forth and there is a lot of serendipity in how our professional lives progress. I speak to a lot of lawyers about their careers and I’ve noticed a pattern.  Many lawyers end up later in their careers in roles that they could not have predicted when they were just entering practice.  I would certainly say that has been true for my own career. My guest in this episode, Jose Sierra, is someone who epitomizes that career path.  Jose is a partner in the Boston Office of Holland and Knight.  I was recently having coffee with him and he said to me that for some individuals, career paths are like a canoe ride across a lake.  You chose a destination and then you start paddling to it. Jose then said that his career has been more like whitewater rafting. You eventually reach a destination, but it may not be the destination you originally set out to reach and you may not have been able to predict how you would get there. I thought that was a great metaphor and invited him to be on Counsel to Counsel to talk about that. Jose is a Boston attorney who focuses his practice in the areas of white collar criminal defense, government investigations, healthcare fraud and abuse, the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, compliance, and business litigation. He is well-versed in the areas of healthcare fraud and life science compliance and has advised healthcare and pharmaceutical industry executives, audit committees and corporate board directors on legal, employment, compliance and business strategies, including due diligence advice in connection with corporate acquisitions.  Prior to joining Holland and Knight he was a partner at a large IP boutique and then at a small Boston firm.  He began his legal career as a clerk for the 5th Circuit and then as an Assistant US Attorney in New Jersey.  Before entering private practice, he served as senior vice president and chief ethics and compliance officer for two pharmaceutical companies.  In this episode, he talks about how he has always sought opportunities for career growth and how that has taken him in many unexpected directions.