Why this is not “slimy selling,” but genuinely providing value to the people you want to serve.The role of business development in “whale” B2B models (and how it fuels high-end consulting practices).Using LinkedIn to discover your ideal people and leverage your interactions.A handful of examples using in-person conferences as part of your business development plan.The importance of prioritizing relationships and tracking your business development activity over time. LINKSRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | Twitter 

Getting past the fear of an empty calendar following an intensive project. Hint: having a marketing system you work even when you’re slammed goes a long way.How to turn a wrap-up meeting into additional work, testimonials and/or referrals (and one specific problem this meeting will solve for you).The magic of taking time for yourself to recharge after an intense bout of work—and a few ideas to try out.The post project questions to ask yourself to narrow down your superpower(s) and focus them on even higher-value future work.How small rituals to close out projects can have big emotional and financial payoffs. LINKSRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | Twitter 

NOTE: Rochelle and I (Jonathan) couldn't record last week. Rather than give you nothing (or a TBOA repeat) to listen to, I decided to dig through the Ditching Hourly archives and find an episode that long time fans of TBOA would be sure to enjoy. Here's the info from the Ditching Hourly site:The “Expertise Expert” himself, David C. Baker, joined me on Ditching Hourly to talk about the five things that happen right after you specialize.SummaryHere is an AI summary of the key points from the episode:The episode is a discussion between Jonathan Stark and David C. Baker about positioning and specialization for consultants and professional services firms.They discuss the importance of niche positioning to stand out, attract ideal clients, see client patterns more clearly, accelerate learning, and always have things to write and talk about.They outline 5 things that happen after narrowing your business focus:You don't instantly become smarter, but your rate of learning accelerates because you start seeing more examples of your niche.Impostor syndrome kicks in because you're making expertise-based claims you didn't make before, but this fear is often unfounded because you were willing to work with those clients previously.You don't have to turn down unrelated work right away during the transition period, though over time, you'll likely feel unsatisfied with off-target projects.You immediately start narrowing your focus even further, fine-tuning your positioning through real-world conversations and testing.Counterintuitively, you'll have way more to write and talk about when focused on a niche than as a generalist.Jonathan and David emphasize that niche positioning is critical before you can effectively differentiate, charge value-based pricing, market yourself, or even decide what content to produce. It brings focus to everything that follows.About David C. Baker“The Leading Authority on Positioning, Reinventing, and Selling Firms in the Creative and Digital Space.”David C. Baker is the author of five books, three of which focus on the central elements of the business of expertise: positioning, financial management, and leadership. David speaks regularly on more than 70 topics relevant to entrepreneurial expertise, from 20 executives to 5,000 live on TV worldwide, and has worked with 900+ firms through his Total Business Review process.David's LinksDavid's WebsiteDavid's book: The Business of ExpertiseDavid's podcast (with Blair Enns)David's article on Specialization   LINKSRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | Twitter 

When to shake things up by trying an experiment in your business.Why it’s worth challenging your own perceptions and/or the norms of a popular platform.Creating your own “book central” to capture everything you need to help with marketing and sales of your product in one place.One surprising outcome of this experiment (and why it will keep leveraging itself indefinitely).How starting with a niche book can expand your audience well beyond your intended target. LINKSRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | Twitter 

When to consider learning from a 1-1 coach vs. a group experience—and how to think about when an investment makes sense.Building your own network of peers—through community participation or seeking out 1-1 relationships.Why guided experimentation works for so many soloists in the expertise space (and how to find those experiences).How to match your learning investments (time and money) with your business stage.Learning from your marketplace, including having regular conversations with your potential clients and buyers. LINKSRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | Twitter 

Soloist Women: The Mastermind LINKSRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | Twitter 

Why you want to move those “bees in your head” to a Projects List where they don’t interfere with your focus right now.The importance of testing your concept (with yourself) and perhaps others before investing significant build time.Ways to organize the design flow of a time-bound challenge—and why cohorts can be so magical.Using technology short-cuts (like Zapier and ConvertKit)—and the value of testing your automations before you go live.Why documenting the process as you go is an easy move that pays off big if you decide to launch the program again. LINKSRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | Twitter 

How to identify your target market and create just enough of a description of the new offering to test it with them.Different ways to construct a “listening tour” for feedback and constructive criticism depending on your idea and your goal.Why you want to prepare a throughline—the compelling story that connects what you’ve been doing to your new thing.The value in embracing imperfection and adopting an experimental mindset. LINKSRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | Twitter 

Which is best: using your name or creating a company name for your expertise business (hint: what’s your end game)?How to deal with an unusual, unpronounceable (to your audience) or too-common name.Why your company name matters less than you think (but your URL is gold).Naming your books, products and services and why that’s different than naming your firm.The non-intuitive question to ask yourself when naming each of your babies. LINKSRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | Twitter 

Why you can’t let what’s going on in the world keep you from playing your game, serving your niche.How to decide your themes for the year (and a sneak peek into ours).The role of energy in deciding how you want to spend this moment/this day/this month/this year.Why how you feel about your to-do list is a leading indicator of what you’ll actually accomplish (spoiler alert: delete/offload the low energy stuff).How to identify small changes to remove draining tasks and add energizing ones—AKA genius zone work—to your schedule.LINKSJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | TwitterRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | Instagram LINKSRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | Twitter 

Why we tend to think “balance” is a single point where we remain forever (even though that’s not how life usually works).The role boundaries play in how happy you feel with your choices.How your genius zone factors into structuring your work and your life.Choosing to keep your work and your life in an upward spiral—and why that sometimes means letting go of your past self.LINKSRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | Twitter

You started a business to help people - and you do help people! - but let’s be honest... you could help people as an employee working for someone else.The real reason you started a business was for the freedom.  The freedom of doing what you want, when you want, where you want, with whom you want.So, if you’ve been running your business for a while, but the freedom just hasn’t come yet, I have something that might help.Get your freedom without compromising your business successFolks often ask how I can possibly maintain...a daily mailing lista weekly podcastmonthly course launchesa coaching community with 700+ membersa group of private coaching clientsand more......all completely on my own without a single employee or VA or anything.I know it seems like I must be working all the time, but the reality is that I get all this done in just a few hours per week.Most weeks, it feels like I spend more time at karate and the gym than doing anything work-related.Heck, I recently took the kids to Disney World for a week, and my business output didn’t miss a beat.Go behind-the-scenesIf you’ve ever wondered how I sustain such a high level of productivity year after year, you’re in luck.On Thursday, December 7th, 2023 at 1:00pm ET, I am giving a behind-the-scenes look at the ruthlessly simple time management system I use to run my solo practice.The webinar is NOT open to the public.If you want to attend, you must be a member of my Ditcherville coaching community.Here’s a sample of what to expect:How I process my inbox in five minutes or lessHow I use my calendar differently than most peopleHow I use my todo lists to prevent getting overwhelmedHow I use SOPs to supercharge my productivity and conserve creative energyHow my systems work together to keep me focused, not distractedLive Q&AThere will be plenty of time for Q&A, so if there’s something I don’t cover that you’re interested in, ask. I’ll answer every question, even if I have to stay late to do it.Will it be recorded?Yes, the presentation will be recorded, but the replay will only be available for 48 hours. After that, it’s gone for good.This is the first time I’ve shared this info anywhere. I don’t know if I’ll do it again. So, this might be your only chance to get a behind-the-scenes look at how I run my business.See you there?If you feel like you’re working so hard that you can’t get ahead and desperately want to get back to running your business instead of it running you, I hope to see you on Thursday, December 7 at 1:00pm ET.Click below to become a member of Ditcherville and get access to this private presentation:JOIN NOW »Monthly, annual, and lifetime memberships are available.The Benefits of MembershipOf course, the webinar access is just the beginning.When you join more than 700 of your colleagues in Ditcherville, you’ll get instant access to the following:💬 24/7 asynchronous discussion and support in the Ditcherville Slack🎟️ Invitations to all future Ditcherville LIVE Q&A sessions🔦 A searchable database of 700+ individual questions with answers in audio and video format (more than 150 hours!)📚 My library of email sequences, business templates, coaching questions, daily emails, and more👂 A private audio podcast feed of past Q&A sessions so you can binge-listen to the back catalog hands-freeIf not now, when?Don’t waste another year moving one inch in every direction.Join my group coaching community today and get the answers you need to start moving forward again.Here’s the link again:JOIN NOW »I hope to see you in Ditcherville soon!Yours,—J

How to blend both analytical and feelings-based reviews into your planning (and the key questions to ask yourself before making any final decisions).Translating your bets into systems to lock-and-load your goals into your recurring (daily, weekly, monthly) actions.How adding a paper—yes paper!—calendar to your planning routine might pay off for you.Why you want to choose a theme for the year—and how to think about yours.The most important factor to consider when evaluating multiple bets.

How to know if your next move is all that risky—or just feels risky?Why it’s worth doing an analytical assessment of a specific risk before just saying no (or yes).How to reduce the uncertainty in any action(s) you’re considering.When your fear is more about the qualitative experience than about how you’ll look/how much money is at stake.LINKSRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | Twitter

Licensing your intellectual property into tools and assessments.Translating your reputation (and personality) into live events with tiered pricing.Leveraging books beyond the book sale into significant revenue streams.Designing creative pricing for memberships.Using contractors to deliver fixed-price services for value-priced projects.LINKSJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | TwitterRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | Instagram

How you’ll know the rules of the game you’ve been playing have changed.Why creating a new service or product is a better solution than cutting prices on existing offerings.An alternative that will increase your insight (not to mention your revenue) into why demand is softening.How to test if you’re following “rules” that no longer apply.LINKSRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | Twitter

Inverting the podcasting pyramid to have a faster impact on your business (and waste less time promoting in social media).When how many listeners you have really doesn’t matter as a success metric.Why you might conduct some interviews in person (and how to leverage your attendance at industry conferences).When podcast hosting is a relationship builder between you and your ideal potential clients and buyers.How you’ll get the most benefit from podcasting (hint: clearly aligning your podcast with already proven positioning is an excellent start).LINKSRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | Twitter

How to make the final decision to let challenging clients go.Making spending more time in your genius zone a reality.Substack vs. ConvertKit.What to say when clients ask about your costs.Is it time to give up on my business and go back to being an employee?What do you say to creative people in their 20’s who feel like their only viable career choice is building an on-line creative business?How do I create recurring revenue from support or advisory options without talking about hours?Should I be immediately value pricing my services in my brand new expertise business?LINKSJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | TwitterRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | Instagram

What happens when we get unconsciously caught up in lifestyle inflation (and how to escape that trap).How to think about your two primary buckets of “enough”.The handful of markers to know you’re taking the right risks and protecting your downside (even though your “enough” number will be unique).How spending fits into your personal equation and when to consider flexing (stepping on the gas or the brake) your business.LINKSRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | Twitter

Why the stories we tell ourselves about our luck vs. skill aren’t always true.Why most of your business bets will be small-ish stakes (a series of pivots) vs. flinging yourself into the volcano.The early signs your bet is working—or not—and why we tend to ignore them.How to make your feedback loops shorter to increase your longer-term likelihood of success.Why it’s helpful to determine the roles luck vs. skill played in past big decisions (and the factors we consider).LINKSJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | TwitterRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | Instagram

“There are only two things that determine the way your life turns out. Luck and the quality of your decisions. That's it.” Annie DukeWhen we won’t quit a bad idea because we hear a unicorn success story—instead of making the smarter move to invest “our treasure” (talents, time and energy) elsewhere.Why we never have ALL the facts when making decisions (and how luck swings outcomes more than we think).When we have to ignore how much money we’ve “put in the pot” and fold instead (and why pre-bet kill criteria will be your friend).Thinking in bets: how to calculate your expected value from a decision (and why horses are more dangerous than sharks).How soloists can establish truth-seeking groups to get the value of constructive advice (and why this is so critical to high performance).Be sure to stick around to the very end for a lightning round of Q+A on making better decisions.LINKSAnnie Duke | Substack | Website | Quit | Thinking in Bets BIOAnnie loves to dive deep into decision making under uncertainty. Her latest obsession is on the topic of quitting. In particular, she is on a mission to rehabilitate the term and get people to be proud of walking away from things.Annie is an author, speaker, and consultant in the decision-making space, as well as Special Partner focused on Decision Science at First Round Capital Partners, a seed stage venture fund. Annie’s latest book, Quit: The Power of Knowing When to Walk Away, was released in 2022 from Portfolio, a Penguin Random House imprint. Her previous book, Thinking in Bets, is a national bestseller. As a former professional poker player, she has won more than $4 million in tournament poker. During her career, Annie won a World Series of Poker bracelet and is the only woman to have won the World Series of Poker Tournament of Champions and the NBC National Poker Heads-Up Championship. She retired from the game in 2012. Prior to becoming a professional poker player, Annie was awarded a National Science Foundation Fellowship to study Cognitive Psychology at the University of Pennsylvania.Annie is the co-founder of The Alliance for Decision Education, a non-profit whose mission is to improve lives by empowering students through decision skills education. She is a member of the National Board of After-School All-Stars and the Board of Directors of the Franklin Institute and serves on the board of the Renew Democracy Initiative.

Rising above the “holy war of craft” into focusing on business impact.How to raise the level of a craft conversation (and what can happen when you do).Growing your business once you decide to take your expertise on an upward spiral.Why there is room for soloists to be a top craftsperson OR a top advisor (and how those business models differ).LINKSRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | Twitter

Why the gurus’ advice to spend all of your genius zone time alone does not apply to our kinds of businesses.How the transformations you want to make with your people drive the way you structure your business.What can happen when you’re responsible for employees (and perhaps feel the need to escape 😎).Creating the ultimate non-escape plan by pivoting your business to a “go out with your boots on” model.LINKSJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedInTwitterRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | Instagram

More info on the Soloist Women Mastermind

How we think about using your time—so you can not only be productive, but genuinely enjoy your work.Blocking and tackling your calendar to align with your priorities.How to create to-do lists that incent you to act vs. pushing items around “for later”.Alternative ways to handle your email so that it supports how you do your best work.Addressing your “maybe someday” list to decide which ideas will make the cut to your business.LINKSRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedInTwitter

Why you want to weigh how you want to work and your overall vision before making delegation decisions.Considering whether you’re buying a “box” that someone else has assembled or are designing your own unique process.The sneaky ways delegating small tasks can eat up your time and/or change how you work (aka when delegating has a waterfall effect on your other processes).How to recognize delegation creep: when outsiders add complexity you just don’t need for where you want to take your business. LINKSJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedInTwitterRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | Instagram

The magic email to send when you want to get a go/no go on a proposal that’s gone dark (and why triggering FOMO can be exactly the right move).Sending cold outreach that avoids the stench of desperation (and a sample template you can personalize).Why you want to lead with the pointiest point of your spear when you’re pitching.How to intrigue with your ask (hint: a compelling call to action), while still being exquisitely clear on WIIFM for your target.LINKShttps://www.winwithoutpitching.com/magic-email/https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/prospecting-by-email/https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/telephone-intro/Rochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedInTwitter

Why you want to start with a sales page when designing for clients and buyers.What to do with “sparks”—those tiny bits of an idea that light you up.How to think about putting together your idea (aka does your buyer want the pineapple?)Overcoming avoidance (fear), imposter syndrome (fear), and worrying your audience won’t like you/your idea (fear).How to choose the right people to share your fledgling ideas with.LINKSJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | TwitterRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | Instagram

How to get clear on what your “target” wants most—and why it matters.Why you want to answer your reader’s WIIFM (what’s in it for me) question right up front.How to “punch above your weight” to connect with household-name-type people.The value of being genuine and coming from a helpful place.Crafting your pitch so that the reader can make a quick Yes/No call.LINKS:The Introduction GameRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | Twitter

Why perspectives are easier to change than our mindset (and how to get help when you need it).The one question to ask yourself if you think your mindset is getting in your way.Six specific mindsets (and how to recognize them) that can prevent soloists from breaking through to high-end revenue combined with the free time to enjoy it.Crossing the line from being tentative to charging premium prices because you are confident in your transformations and your business.The links between your mindset and your confidence in making bets inside your business.RESOURCESJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | TwitterRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | Instagram

Talking PointsThe four zones of work and how to continue morphing toward your personal genius zone.How to think about (and master) the upward spiral that is consistently spending more work time in your genius zone.The clues that tell you it’s time to exit the trap of doing work where you’re merely competent or excellent.Embracing the counterintuitive idea that you can do less—and do fewer things—to move ahead faster.Understanding those things that are a drag on your energy vs. a source of fuel.RESOURCESRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | TwitterQuotables“One of the ways that we sabotage ourselves is we stay in our zone of competence or excellence. We actively push away opportunities to be in our genius zone. It's almost like, who am I to have it this good?”—RM “(The upward spiral) is aspirational. It's not perfectionist. It's like this iterative process, which to me is so much more real than this like magic bullet.”—JS“You do nobody any favors by staying in your zone of excellence or your zone of competence.”—RM“(Your genius) is way bigger than like a business model or something like that. It's almost like a trait, like a superpower or something.”—JS“Your genius zone is about how you contribute to the world by bringing it your best talents.”—RM “The process of honing down…to the extent that I would call it my genius zone, is really just like looking at the stuff that drains me and not doing it anymore.”—JS“Every day that you're alive, you could get a little bit more into your genius zone.”—RM“That feels weird: it's like, wait, do less, do fewer things to get ahead. It's counterintuitive.”—JS

How it feels when clients have several choices, but don’t trust any of them to bring them reliably to their finish line.The perceived experience and control clients feel from a DIY solution (that they don’t completely trust they’ll get from you).How to make it easier for certain clients to either hire you or drop out earlier in the process.What goes through clients’ heads as they consider spending money for your services/outcomes.Quotables“Once you make that decision and you pick the horse, you're riding that horse to the end.”—JS“Just because you decided to do it yourself doesn't mean that you know what's behind the walls.”—RM“There's no real way for a non-expert to judge the capabilities of an expert.”—JS“You consciously chose this because it was a better perceived experience for you than the level of unknown with hiring somebody to do it.”—RM“All of the decision-making processes that kept us paralyzed turned out in retrospect to have been unfounded.”—JS“Sometimes when you (bring in additional team members), it allows you to make a different promise to your client and make it easier for them to hire you.”—RMRESOURCESJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | TwitterRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | Instagram

Why it’s about more than just your revenue/profit lines (even though they are pretty darned important).Another way to look at your revenue growth or lack thereof (hint: it involves what you enjoy doing most).How to decide how well (or not) your strategic and tactical moves are working.A host of tactics to grow your top line revenue and have more fun doing it.Stepping back and looking not just at your business but how well it’s integrating with the rest of your life and vice versa.RESOURCESRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | TwitterQuotables“There are only two numbers I track on a regular basis. One is newsletter subscribers—and related to that, the open rate.”—JS“My satisfaction rating is just a totally subjective rating of how much fun this has been. And am I enjoying the ride even when it's hard?”—RM“I have a pivot table in my budget projections for my revenue projections that splits out the mix of hard stuff versus easy stuff.”—JS“If it's a tactic and it's been six months, that's a reasonable amount of time to decide it's working or it's not working.”—RM

The power and potential of AI for authority businesses, even in use cases where pundits insist it will decimate business models.Some of the new tools (that you can use right now) that innovators are developing for experts, authorities and soloists.Why using AI for first drafts may be the immediate best use of AI for experts and authorities.New uses of AI in the authority space: automated transcription, voice replication and first-draft content generation from tweets and hashtags to turning podcasts into book drafts. The potential of AI to leverage your soloist business, including taking tasks you used to pay for or do yourself off your plate entirely.Quotables“It's like this thing you can see on the horizon. And it's like, are you going to paddle out and ride it or just stay on the beach, nice and comfy?”—JS“I don't have to be a tech bro to figure this out…this is achingly simple.”—RM “The power of that (AI) for someone who is trying to lead a revolution or spread a big idea or lead a mission—especially a soloist—it's jaw-dropping.”—JS“It's dangerous to be resistant to new ideas. Doesn't mean you're going to embrace them ever, but just being flat out resistant usually is not a great long-term strategy for your business.”—RM“Let's say that it takes half of your time to do first drafts, and you could increase your productivity by like, say, double. And you could take on twice as many clients working the same amount of time as you currently work.”—JS“This is about getting a first draft. As a writer…your client doesn't care where it came from. What they care about is that it works for their brand or their campaign, or whatever they're hiring you to do.”—RM “It's kind of like I have a first drafter, like an intern type of employee who understands my stuff and can do a good first pass.”—JS“If I can get clients to something that is going to cut the amount of time they spend and increase their profits, hello! I want that at the top of my list for my practice.”—RMRESOURCESJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | TwitterRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramLINKShttps://hello.podium.page/blog/convert-your-podcast-to-a-book-with-podbook-by-podiumhttps://thebusinessofauthority.simplecast.com/episodes/seth-godinhttps://www.podcastshownotes.ai/https://www.getmunch.com/https://www.chatcsv.co/https://www.stfo.io/ffbihttps://www.descript.com/https://www.midjourney.com/https://beta.elevenlabs.io/

How to think about sunk costs—and the cultural and emotional messages around abandoning your “thing”.Evaluating opportunity costs—how to know when it’s time to quit to free up resources for other things.The value of asking for outside input before making large investments—and how to get it.Why setting kill criteria right at the start of your new investments (and not well into the project) may be your best move.The cultural and emotional aspects of quitting that no one talks about, but pretty much everyone experiences.RESOURCESRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | TwitterQuotables“It’s always easier to see when you think someone else should quit something. It's like, you've been trying to become an actor for 40 years and you've had one walk on part. I think it might be time to quit.”—JS“I'm thinking of something that I dropped and, duh, it didn't work because I didn't do any freaking research to make sure anybody even wanted this thing.”—RM “If you've only got a few chips on the table, it's no big deal. It's just like, eh, this is an experiment, didn't work out. And if you keep doing those, eventually one is gonna be not crickets. One is gonna be take my money.”—JS“The right people will say yes to a call or some kind of an interaction. And if they won't, then it doesn't matter how good your idea is—then you need to spend some time getting these people to want to take your calls...”—RM“If you think quitting is for losers, maybe reframe that in your mind in terms of knowing when to quit.”—JS“Fear is what keeps people in terrible jobs, in terrible relationships, in businesses that don't fit them, in roles that really are bad for them. It's that fear of…but what do I do next?”—RM “The type of goal that you have can make it easier or harder to know what the kill criteria is or are.”—JS“So much is possible, if we allow ourselves not to stick with everything that we start.”—RM

Why navigating the dip (the desert you have to cross to get to Mecca) is so much easier when you have decided to be the best in the world.What does “best in the world” mean for you—and what are you willing to commit to to achieve it?How that decision translates to revenue and picking the right next moves—even (especially) when they’re hard.Choosing where to place your bets when faced with turning point decisions.Why the “glorious quest” nature of some missions allows you to tap into energy you didn’t even know you had to get through obstacles.Quotables“It is sort of a call to arms to be more than mediocre.”—JS“The dip is kind of like the desert that you have to cross to get to Mecca. And on the other side are all the riches you get from doing the hard, dirty, nasty work of the dip.”—RM“If you're spending all of your time doing this thing, you need to have a way to put Cheerios in the bowl.”—JS“You're willing to do it because it's worth it. It's worth it in terms of your emotional connection to the outcome. It's worth it in terms of the transformations you deliver to your ideal people. It's worth it in terms of the business you can build for yourself and the revenue that you can make.”—RM“It's like every decision you make is a bet. There's no guarantee, right? So it's a bet.”—JS“It's not like you only have one chance in your life to do this one big thing. You have multiple, multiple chances.”—RM“It's just going to come back to…focusing down on demand that is so specific that you can reasonably decide to be the best in the world at this very specific thing and then use the excitement of that to carry you through whatever dips you encounter (which you will).”—JS“You're not like the Renaissance person who knows a lot about a few things and a little bit about a lot. You're someone with deep knowledge—and that makes you really valuable.”—RMLINKSThe Dip by Seth GodinRESOURCESJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | TwitterRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | Instagram

Why right now is the best time ever to make a significant contribution to the change you want to see in your world.The importance of focusing on the smallest viable audience to accomplish significant work.How to transform your work into your art (hint: it includes the story you tell yourself about where you’re going).Why “soft skills” need to be considered as “real skills”—and why they are often far more valuable than skills that can be easily measured.What to tell yourself to push past imposter syndrome.Quotables“It's way more likely that adroit committed, passionate, smart people are going to realize they have more tools than anyone on Earth ever had before.”—SG“What I'm trying to help undo is industrial brainwashing and remind people that significance comes from making a change in the world.”—SG “I've done more than 200 projects in my career. I've never missed a budget and I have never missed a deadline. And the reason is because when I run outta time or I run outta money, I'm done.”—SG“The key to significant work, particularly for the soloist you're talking about, is understanding the power of the smallest viable audience. The goal cannot be the biggest possible audience, ‘cuz that will water down your work and wreck it.”—SG“Part of my contribution is helping people tell themselves a story so they can transform parts of their day from work to art.”—SG“Real skills are honesty, generosity, leadership, connection, charisma, creativity, a sense of humor.”—SG “We have filled our lives with dangerous, ineffective proxies. Things we measure that look like they're gonna give us a hint as to what we're gonna get, but they don't.”—SG“People say how do I get rid of imposter syndrome? And I say you can't. And that's a good thing because feeling like an imposter is a symptom that A, you're not a sociopath, and B, that you're actually doing something difficult. Something important, something that might not work, something you can't prove because you're leading.”—SGLinksThe Song of SignificanceThe Carbon AlmanacRESOURCESRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | Twitter

What exactly is a guarantee and why/when does it make sense to offer one?Why you are probably already offering a guarantee even if you haven’t explicitly stated it (and what to do instead).How to develop meaningful guarantees when the client is intimately involved in the outcome.What happens with your client conversations and relationships when you offer a guarantee.How clients are (already) telling you which guarantees they’d value most.Quotables“The thing with guarantees is that you - as a buyer - automatically know they're a good thing.”—JS“One has to kind of punch through the fear of making a guarantee. And it always feels a little bit easier on products to make a guarantee—just give it back.”—RM “I'm sure everybody who's ever billed hourly has eaten hours because they're like, ‘Dang, that took me six hours and I thought it was only going to take me one!’ which is them honoring a guarantee that they never explicitly made.”—JS“If you really listen in your sales conversations, they will tell you what they're worried about…it’s like big old giant neon signs pointing you to a potential guarantee.”—RM“You could address that fear (when they’re afraid of themselves) with something like a red alert guarantee.”—JS“This is what goes through their head: ‘I'm gonna mess this up…I will never be hired again, I'm gonna have to go be a Walmart greeter.’”—RM “For an info product, it makes a lot of sense to just offer an unconditional 100% money back guarantee—if you're unsatisfied for any reason, I'll refund your purchase in full, no questions asked.”—JS“Acknowledging their fear…will make offering guarantees more smooth, because you'll see the ways that you can make it more comfortable for them at no cost to you.”—RM

Why capturing the pain your ideal buyer is experiencing is the perfect opening for a successful sales page.How to move away from focusing on your “fix” to the emotionally charged decision your buyers are making.The four essential parts of every successful sales page (and how to up the ante once you’ve got those covered).What to do if you don’t have social proof for your new offering just yet.How to think about what you’re selling and why your mindset impacts the success of your sales page.RESOURCESRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | TwitterQuotables“You want someone to know immediately that you understand them. And by describing their pain…they’re automatically going to be somewhat convinced or beginning to trust that you’ve got a solution to this thing.”—JS“We buy how something is going to make us feel. We don’t buy on logic.”—RM“In the dream section, you want to present the reader with the mirror image of the pain—you want to flip it.”—JS“This (the CTA) should be a big button. It should be in major contrast to all of the copy and the colors around it. Your eye should be drawn to this giant button.”—RM“Social proof: like the smiling faces of people who have just been transformed in the way that you promised above, that that will resonate with the ideal reader of the page.”—JS“If you’ve already got an audience, you’re hitting on their pain, you’ve designed the solution that your kind of people are looking for—the solution matches the pain and their dream—you’re golden.”—RM“If someone is coming to the page ready to buy…in the first five seconds, they know what it is and how to buy.”—JS“If you don’t sell, you’re denying your people the opportunity to be better than they were before they experienced this thing.”—RMLinksBuilding The Perfect Sales Page

Why small buckets of time can often be easier to exploit than large swaths of free time.How to think about protecting your creative time for your business while also enjoying the rest of your life.When rethinking large creative projects and parsing them into smaller chunks makes sense.The role of consuming other people’s content in “loading the cannon” of your own creativity.Quotables“Not that swanning around the neighborhood with a full day off is a bad thing, but we're talking about the sort of creative things that you're doing to build your authority business.”—JS“When you have a whole day, you can say ‘Wow, look at all this open space—what can I create today with that?’”—RM “What can I squeeze in between these two appointments?”—JS“We do these soloist expertise businesses so that we can do great work, make huge transformations, make piles of money, and enjoy our lives.”—RM“Writing a podcast outreach pitch where I am reaching out to a podcast host to pitch myself as a guest—half an hour is a perfect amount of time for me to do one of those.”—JS“When I'm invited to guest, especially on a well-known podcast, I'm going to do prep…I will think about how do I want to position this? I don't ever want to go into those cold.”—RM “If you know what they're going to ask you, they're going to put you on the spot. Then it's like, you might as well rise to the occasion.”—JS“Sometimes I'll just look at all the highlights (I’ve collected from other people’s content) and ask…how would this apply to expertise and authority and consulting? Is there an angle I haven't thought about?”—RM

Why authority-based businesses require being unproductive at times—and how to give yourself permission to go there.The hidden costs of failing to innovate, especially for soloists.The wide spectrum from productivity to creativity—and deciding where you want to be in any given moment.Pushing through any residual guilt from not being highly productive, all the time.The difference between exploration and expedition—and why exploring (a proxy for creativity) may be challenging for experts.RESOURCESRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | TwitterQuotables“There are things that you probably need to do for an authority-based business…that require you to be unproductive.”—JS“Creativity is like being delightfully unproductive.”—RM “There's no stopwatch to be like, okay, like how fast did you come up with an idea today?”—JS “You may have this sort of mindset that you need to always be busy. And sometimes that just has to be broken.”—RM“The question immediately comes up like, how do you schedule projects back to back if you're not sure when they're done? And I'm like, why are you scheduling projects back-to-back at all?”—JS“You just have to find a way to shift back and forth between those times where you're really busy and it's relatively quiet.”—RM “There's a thing that I do that looks like I'm doing nothing from the outside. And if you just recognize that that's part of the process, like without that, you're not gonna innovate.”—JS“People resist it (allowing an idea to roll around before it gels) like I can't even tell you because there's so much discomfort in sitting in the not knowing.”—RM

The two ways you can decide to be a specialist or a generalist.A four quadrant approach to choosing where you want to take your business on the generalist to specialist continuum.How to make a generalist skill set work in a hyper-differentiated market place.Why experimenting between the quadrants will lead you to your ideal balance between specializing and generalizing.Quotables“In the etch-a-sketch metaphor there's these two knobs you can dial…one would be who you help and the other is what you do.”—JS“Is there a market for this? And how big is that market?”—RM “The lower left quadrant is a rough place to be because that's the place where you have downward pricing pressure. You're commoditized.”—JS“If you just pick one of these two axes, I think most people know right away which feels better.”—RM“If you really want to be a generalist, I'd say, okay. Stay general in your skills, but pick a vertical, pick who you help.”—JS“This can be an experiment, but even if it doesn't work, what do you learn from that experiment? Well, you learn what you didn't like, so how do you get closer to what you DO want?”—RM “You create a moat around yourself that very few competitors will be able to cross.”—JS“You can think about which quadrant am I in? And is it the right quadrant for me and for my business? “—RM

Why it’s more important for your target market to be specific than small.What happens when you truly understand your group of target clients and buyers.How to think about the revenue model you might build to serve your targets (and one incredible real-life example).What changes in your business when you get specific about who you’re targeting.How a handful of experts niched successfully into specific—but not small—markets.RESOURCESRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | TwitterQuotables“It's much more important for your target market to be specific than it is to be small.”—JS“If we can substitute specific for small, maybe it cracks through a psychological barrier to niching.”—RM“It's almost a revelation how much easier everything gets when the group is specific enough that you can understand them.”—JS“We can also look at the other end (from bespoke services), where you can create a system…that meets that (serious need), and you make up for what you lose on price in volume.”—RM“At the beginning to get traction, to establish really solid, predictable cashflow, a great approach is to pick a very specific market that you know inside out and then serve some existing demand.”—JS“You don’t start big—you start specific.”—RM“She can speak with like comical specificity to her target audience about the things that are going through their minds.”—JS“When it (getting specific) works, it’s a thing of beauty.”—RM

How to think about cold outreach so you can practice (and get comfortable with) doing it on a regular basis.Three situations where you can use a low-key form of cold outreach that is likely to be highly successful.Why knowing exactly who your ideal client is makes cold outreach more effective and faster to leverage.How to make cold situations warm(er) and more comfortable.The surprising results from continuing to follow-up, even beyond your comfort level.Quotables“Imagine an acquisitions editor from a big publisher sent you an email and said, ‘Hey, we'd like to talk about doing a book with you’. That's cold outreach.”—JS“I wouldn't want to spend my whole day doing just cold outreach, but it's really a fun part of building an expertise business.”—RM“They're not trying to take something from you, they are sending a highly relevant message to you for a very specific reason.”—JS“The time that cold outreach makes the most sense is when you have something that's potentially mutually beneficial.”—RM“A great time to do (cold outreach) is when you're inspired by something.”—JS“The tighter you make that ideal client, the easier it is…to know what's gonna light them up.”—RM“The best time to do cold outreach is when you don't need to do it—when it can be organic and serendipitous and genuine.”—JS“The first thing I always try to do is to turn cold to warm.”—RM

Why Chat GPT can be like having a sort of infinite number of (free) interns.How to learn and deal with the limitations of the service so you can ensure you’re getting reliable information.Various use cases for your authority business, including blind spots to watch for.Understanding the application’s privacy and IP challenges and making decisions in line with your mission.RESOURCESRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | TwitterQuotables“I've heard it described as it's like having a sort of infinite number of interns for free.”—JS“It doubles down on the things that are already there versus exploring the new and the interesting and the quirky.”—RM “It has the opinion of the sort of collective unconscious of people who have posted stuff online. So it's skewed and not perfect and not true…But I used it as a sparring partner for some of my maybe more controversial ideas.”—JS“Somebody has to take that extra step right now to say, oh what other voices are there on this topic?”—RM“(We have been experimenting with) an app called Podium that you can upload your audio, your MP3 file, and it goes through and creates the show notes and highlights and quotes and timestamps and chapters with summaries and timestamps, and it takes about 45 seconds and it's free.”—JS“In this case it's a thinking assistant because it's listening to your words and deciding what to do with them.”—RM “Okay here's a wild one, especially for the non-technical people: I told Chat GPT to hand code a webpage for a solo consultant…and boom, it puked out the HTML and the CSS and you just open 'em in your browser and it's like a website.”—JS“I don't need somebody to listen to an hour (of the podcast) if they can get value in three minutes. That's okay. You're not hurting my feelings. Take what you need. It's a gift.”—RM

 If you’ve ever taken a business course, chances are that competition was presented as a zero-sum game: you battle it out and only one party wins.Jonathan and I explore why thinking about your competition differently can turbo-charge how you sell and market your expertise:How to identify your competition in similar spaces (and look for non-traditional competitors you might overlook).How the game changes when you view your competitors not as adversaries, but as fellow players in the same game.Why focusing on your ideal client is a more sustainable (and memorable) move than trying to beat competitors.How to use your competition to make positioning decisions that will attract your ideal clients and buyers.What it means when you have no competitors.Quotables“If you put a label on yourself, then people can Google for it and find a list of alternatives.”—JS“There is this deeply ingrained thing in capitalism that you have to have competition…that your job is to slay them.”—RM “I know I do lose deals to people, but my mindset is that I probably dodged a bullet.”—JS“Just kiss them goodbye in a nice way…I want you to get the help that you need and I don't think I'm the right solution.”—RM“If you have an abundance mindset, you're playing an infinite game and you see your “competitors” as other players like you’re all in the park playing Frisbee.”—JS“I don't wanna be apples to apples because nobody else is exactly like me.”—RM “It would be pretty easy to come up with something where you have no competitors, but it's because there's no demand.”—JS“We do create our own competitors.”—RM

Why you want a developmental editor—what they do and how to work with one.The role of a copyeditor and how to determine who has the skill sets for your particular book.The role of a copyeditor and how to determine who has the skill sets for your particular book.How to decide which editorial comments to accept and which to ignore.Determining schedules and timing with your editor (hint: more time does not guarantee a better book).Where to go to find potential editors for your project.RESOURCESRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | TwitterQuotables“What we're talking about today is when you're self-publishing and you need someone to make sure that your book holds together…that it's not rife with typos and your thoughts are carried coherently throughout the book.”—RM “I suppose worst case scenario (after editorial review) was start from scratch. Best case scenario is it's perfect. Certainly the reality is somewhere in between.”—JS“I can't imagine anybody ever gets a developmental edit that says it's perfect. Editors by their nature can always find something to change.”—RM“I can imagine getting that feedback…and pushing back slightly and saying why, do you think that's going to make the book better?.”—JS“I want something that's more than ‘I did this once and let me show you how to do it too’…that is not an authority book.”—RM“The advice to the listener is get a developmental editor and listen with an open mind.”—JS“There aren't nearly as many people hanging a shingle for developmental editing as there are for copy editing. So it does create some complexity in the search, but the outcome is worth it.”—RM“There was a torturous experience that was very common when I wrote books for O'Reilly…you'd still be working on chapter 10 and you'd be getting edits back on chapter one.”—JS

Identify those in your target market who will use this as an opportunity to leapfrog past their competitors.Start moving up the food chain within your niche, either with more complex work or with larger clients.Use this extra time to create authority products—such as a book—or productized services and work on building your email list and/or allies.Look at serving markets adjacent to yours—the very event limiting your clients’ ability to hire you might have the opposite effect on those just next door.How to avoid making moves from desperation (and what to do now to insulate yourself from future “surprises”).Quotables“A bunch of people are going to belt tighten and hunker down, but not all of them will. Find the ones who are using this as an opportunity to make a leapfrog event happen.”—JS“If you are taking a consultant's mindset…then you've got an opportunity to do something that is perhaps less revenue, but higher impact.”—RM“Perhaps you could create it (productized service or product) quickly enough to address the new current expensive problem in some way that is still very profitable for you, but is aligned with their risk tolerance.”—JS“This could be the ideal time to take the step from thinking of yourself as a freelancer to thinking of yourself as a consultant and business owner.”—RM“It might be that some of them (your clients) take the opportunity to speed up, get ahead of the pack. You could do the same thing for your own business.”—JS“The tyranny of the checklist:  it feels so good for some people to just check that box off and convince themselves they're moving their business forward while they miss the real opportunity.”—RM“It's possible that there's something right adjacent to it (your target market) that…is triggering an opportunity.”—JS“The key when you suddenly have this big open slot of time is not to get desperate…that desperation just leaks out of you and everybody picks up on it.”—RM

Why time is a cost when you’re selling expertise, but doesn’t need to factor directly into your pricing strategy.When to track your time—and what to do with what you learn.Evaluating the quality of the time you’re spending on client work—your personal happiness factor.Negotiating with contractors for non-time based fees on joint projects (and one cautionary tale).RESOURCESRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | TwitterQuotables“It (time) is our cost, right? So you can't just ignore your costs, but… it's like you just don't want to be setting your price based on your cost. You wanna set your prices based on the value.”—JS“You probably won't pay so much attention to your time unless something starts to feel off. Your spidey sense will start tingling when things are going off the rails.”—RM “What's the point of tracking all of this, measuring all of this if you're not gonna use it to make a decision?”—JS“Client profile “A” 
gets a yes—I'm happy to work with you, here's the price. Let's go. Client “B” gets a eh. I don't think we're a fit.”—RM“Once you're good at what you do, billing for your time is leaving money on the table.”—JS“I would negotiate a price with the consultant to do Project X as we define it together—then I don't care how many hours they work.”—RM “That billable hour concept—it infects the whole organization.”—JS“How can I make the hours that I'm spending on work happier? How can I just enjoy this more? Because that's the freedom that we get as soloists—we get to create our own reality.”—RM

The traditional path to authority and how writing and speaking fit in.Why you don’t need to write/publish to run a successful expertise business, although building authority gives you more growth options.What to do when you’re better at speaking than writing.Viewing writing as a practice vs. a natural talent that you have or you don’t.Quotables“If you run a chain of laundromats, you don't need to be out there publishing books about it or doing a daily email list.”—JS“The question is: Can you do enough to grow your business if you’re not writing?”—RM “There's almost an inherent built-in editorial process with writing that does not exist with speaking.”—JS“The tried and true path to authority is writing and speaking, and for most people, that's gonna be the fastest, easiest way to authority.”—RM“This turns into a marketing question, like how am I gonna do my content marketing—is it gonna be an audio first workflow?
”—JS“To go out and just talk, hoping there's an idea in there is not doing you or your audience any favors.”—RM“I feel like a big part of getting better at writing is just writing more. If you really can't write, okay then, alternatives abound.”—JS“You can work through this stuff by talking, but…don't do that in front of an audience until it's tight enough so that you're not wasting their time.”—RM

Why you want to learn how to business—the craft of building a profitable, sustainable business for yourself.The three most critical areas to master (delivery, sales and marketing) and how to start practicing each immediately.What to do now to avoid the “sophomore slump”—your second year when referrals tend to dry up.Why speaking and writing—even at the very beginning of your business—are worth committing to consistently.Teaching your contacts how to look out for the key trigger that says it’s time to call you in.RESOURCESRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | TwitterQuotables“Use that time (your first year of business) to learn how to business, learn the craft of business, building a profitable business that you want to show up and work at every day.”—JS“(Your pre-layoff work) came to a screeching halt because somebody else made a decision that was outside of your control.”—RM “You probably think that doing a great job is how you're gonna magically get new clients.”—JS“Selling is the art of taking someone who's interested and showing them how you can help them, how you can transform their situation into something better.”—RM“Instead of pitching, you try to talk them out of working with you, confidently, perhaps with some humor.”—JS“If you're just getting started, focus on actively listening (in a sales meeting) because your instinct is gonna be to do the opposite.”—RM “You're not gonna know who your ideal buyer is. You might not even know who your target market is, but you do want to show up in places where people who might have problems you can solve are hanging out.”—JS“Think in terms of a trigger: what does that other person have to hear to know that they should call you in?”—RM

The value of having an externally focused mission—and why it may take some time and exploration to find yours. Thinking like an investor—how to make bets with high upside potential while minimizing your risk.The role of experimentation in building your business—even when it feels risky or vulnerable.Why you want to discover your genius zone—and become brave enough to align every aspect of your business around it.Overcoming guilt to hire the home support you need to work at your best.Quotables“The thing with self-oriented goals, the me goals..they don't give you much direction. There's like a hundred ways you could reach these goals.”—JS“There's no shame if this is not the life for you. But it does get measurably easier if you've got a north star that you're shooting for.”—RM “I feel like I'm totally unemployable at this point.”—JS“People who are at the very pinnacle of this soloist life, they look at every decision as…is this going to bring me closer to where I want to be?”—RM“Look, it's a bet—you're making a bet. And if you're not a gambler...you want to de-risk the decision as much as possible.”—JS“Every human being has these fears, like the zebra that lifts itself up out of the herd will get slayed by a lion.”—RM “I think creating products is a great way to invest in your business.”—JS“We deserve to have a great life and to enjoy ourselves. This is not about doing things that we hate for people we don't like.”—RM

The ideal number of competitors and target clients in your niche to ensure it’s big enough to keep you profitably in business and small enough that you’re memorable.Why fishing in the right barrel vs. trying to cover the ocean is an ideal strategy for a soloist.The importance of finding your "unfair advantage”.How to find and analyze a potential market niche, including government statistics, trade associations, and social media.RESOURCESRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | TwitterQuotables“There's this sort of tacit assumption that more prospects is better. So why would you narrow your focus on a subset of the whole universe?”—JS“Maybe you don't need to have a hundred thousand people on an email list to have a viable business.”—RM“Would you rather be in the ocean with that hook, or would you rather be standing next to a barrel of trout?”—JS“I don't have to write about 20 different things. I don't have to have 10 different products and services—I can just focus on whatever this particular group is most interested in.”—RM“Where do you have an unfair advantage? Like where are you already connected with a bunch of people? That could be your target market.”—JS“You have to be excited by the depths you're going to go to when you decide to niche.”—RM “I’ve just heard this story so many times when people finally niche down to an appropriate level…they start feeling traction right away.”—JS“’I like all my clients the same.’ Nobody has ever said that to me. They’ll say ‘Oh let me tell you about Joe or Sarah. If I could fill my pipeline with people just like that, I would be thrilled.’”—RM

You’re not on the radar of your ideal clients, so you’re not making their short list.Your ideal buyers are aware of you, but don’t recognize your offerings as a solution to their problem.Your buyers recognize that you offer a potential solution to their problem, but they don’t find your claims credible—they don’t trust you (yet).Your ideal people trust your solution to their potential problem, but your solution costs more than it’s worth to them to solve it.Quotables“A market is a place—virtual or otherwise—where buyers and sellers regularly show up to transact, to trade goods and services.”—JS“If there is commerce, there's the opportunity to make a profit.”—RM“It's very common that the buyers will not recognize that the inputs that you are selling are solutions to the pains they're experiencing.”—JS“If nobody knows you exist, there is no surprise that your stuff isn't selling.”—RM“You put a big label on the front of your bottle that says fast migraine relief…and you've still got the small print on the back with all the ingredients.”—JS“A feature is not a solution.”—RM“Find people who have a bigger version of the same problem, which probably looks like a larger buyer.”—JS“Wanting to work in your genius zone…might cause you to change your niche market vs. changing your offerings.”—RM

The role of leverage in scaling your expertise business.Building a solo business model without leverage from products or employees.Growing as a solo but adding leverage to scale: products (books, memberships, workshops, licensing) and/or people (contractors).Building a firm with traditional W-2 employees—and the two key activities you’ve got to love to make this work.The challenges—and opportunities—to grow and scale in each business model and how to decide which is right for you.RESOURCESRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | TwitterQuotables“There are certain kinds of industries and certain kinds of expertise where when you combine them in the right ways, you can actually build a million dollar plus solo business with no leverage.”—RM“Anything that allows you to do more with less is leverage, whether that's your pricing model or anything.”—JS“Contractors are usually contractors because they don't want to be employees.”—RM“You're using a team of people to help you produce new income streams, new lines of business that are more highly leveraged
.”—JS“Having contractors first is a really good training ground for having employees.”—RM“It's (having employees) like being married to 10 people and you're worried about 10 mortgages now.”—JS“If you're gonna have employees, it's the equivalent of baby birds saying “give me a worm”. You've got to keep them busy.”—RM“As soon as you get into product, then you can have a real hit—like you can really have a hit.”—JS

The leap of faith required to act generously right from the start of any promising relationship.Moving transactional interactions—like say guesting on a podcast—into relational ones.How to find the right watering holes for other leaders in your niche—without limiting yourself to social media.The one invitation you can offer new contacts that is often a hard yes.The sometimes hidden value from buying cohort-based courses and programs.Quotables“There needs to be a leap of faith in your mind that reaching out to broaden your authority circle (to maybe someday amplify your message), is gonna start off by you showing up in a generous way to help other people.”—JS“You’re in the green room and you have this interaction and then afterwards you've developed a rapport and you've got the opportunity to build a relationship—I love podcasting for that.”—RM“There's this group of people that are all climbing the same mountain, but we're at different points or different places so we don't know they're there.”—JS“You can move something that's a transaction into something more relational.”—RM“A good watering hole: some kind of class that has a cohort where people are birds of a feather flocking around this particular idea.”—JS“I wanna find other people like me, because guess what? The Chamber of Commerce in my town doesn't have anybody like me.”—RM “If you cannot find a watering hole—like you're pretty clear about who you're looking for, but you just cannot find a place where they gather online—you can start one.”—JS“You will help them (new contacts) because you think what they're doing is interesting or there's something about their story that resonates with you.”—RM

Is it a good idea to have multiple themes or strategies in a single year?Why running your business—prospecting, closing deals, delivery—always has to be a top priority (hint: nothing good happens when you don’t have cash flow).The natural progression from starting a business to defining your value proposition to earning serious revenue—and how a single focus will move you faster.How to think about monetizing your expertise as you grow.RESOURCESRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | TwitterQuotables“You still have to do all of the care and feeding of your business. You have to have money coming in. You have to be closing deals… you have to be doing delivery.”—JS“Prospecting never stops. Ideally on the road to authority, you do a lot of prospecting in the beginning and then it tapers off.”—RM“I get nervous when people are splitting their time between two themes.”—JS“I focus a lot better if I've got one lodestar that I'm shooting for.”—RM“Of all of the things that people have been paying me for, what is the thing I really want to show up and do?”—JS“How are you going to make money out of this?”—RM“Clients are happy to pay your exorbitant fees and your growth looks like getting bigger and bigger clients for whom you'll deliver more and more value and therefore can charge higher and higher.”—JSYou really have to marshal all of your energy into one thing to push to that next level.”—RM

Deciding what checklists, systems and automation make the most sense for you.How to determine where your time has the most value (and let go of what you can).Knowing if/when you’re ready to outsource any tasks—and why you want to understand the process and potential outcomes before you hand them off.How to think about and plan the financial side of your business so it’s serving you (vs. the other way around).Quotables”The automation that I have now began its life as checklists.”—JS“There are five areas where you can have systems and checklists—where you want to pay attention to your business and the underlying systems.”—RM“It gives you a chance to step back and be like, is everything I'm doing here adding value? Especially the really hard stuff—is that adding value?”—JS“It (making checklists) also gives you better insight into how much time you're spending running your business.”—RM“Have a really simple, straightforward (selling) system that is as easy as it can be…that you're comfortable with, so it doesn't make you cringe.”—JS“It's really easy to let the selling go when you have a thorny client problem. Having a system—with checklists—is really important to keep your pipeline full.” —RM“The stuff that you do to keep your marketing machine operating on a regular basis can be very small—like it doesn't need to be overwhelming.”—JS“This is where you ask, so do I want a 401k? Do I want some kind of a retirement plan inside my business? What are the best options for me?”—RM

When it’s time to develop a new strategy (or pivot from the old one).How to use your strategy as a filtering system to evaluate and choose the right tactics.Using themes to focus your activities for the year.Punching through an income plateau with new strategy and tactics.RESOURCESRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | TwitterQuotables“It was like I had a team of people that just did what they were supposed to do.”—JS“Your strategy is like a filtering system—there's a gazillion things we can do in any moment but if we're filtering through a strategy, we're much more likely to be productive.”—RM“Tactics without strategy is a disaster.”—JS“You've got this litmus test of the strategy to say, okay, does this tactic align with my strategy?”—RM“A strategy automatically has risk. If your strategy can't fail, it's not a strategy.”—JS“What are your people working on? What are the buzzwords they're using? What are the challenges that they're facing?”—RM“Part of my overall mission does point me to reaching people who are younger and younger. I even have a children's book sketched out that illustrates the insanity of hourly billing.”—JS“If you've been at an income plateau for a while, and nothing you do seems to punch through—that's when you need a new theme for the year to shake up your tactics.”—RMLinksGood Strategy Bad Strategy A More Useful Definition Of Strategy

Clips from Episode 211: Systems, Habits and Creating Time 

Full episode:Episode 219: Time ≠ Money

The differences between the opposite ends of the spectrum and how to own any position you choose to claim.How to migrate from one point on the spectrum—selling, marketing, service delivery and authority building—to another.Matching your business and revenue model (including how big an audience you’ll want to attract) to your unique balance between consulting and coaching.Deciding which kinds of transformations matter most to you.The role of advisory retainers in moving across the spectrum.Quotables“It (coaching) feels a lot more like a transformation that you're selling and…it feels more like you're transforming the buyer into thinking a new way.”—JS“You have these opposite ends of the spectrum between consulting and coaching and then there's so many points in between you can own.”—RM“I took baby steps from consulting to coaching because it was like a relatively small number of people paying me a relatively high amount of money.”—JS“I had this philosophy—even when consulting—that the answer wasn't in me. The answer was in the client. And my job was to get that answer out.”—RM“It's really hard for me to imagine ever reversing direction on that spectrum (of consulting to coaching).”—JS“Now my greatest joy is when somebody hits a new level. Watching that dawn on people—midwifing those transformations—that's what I value.”—RM“And they're like, ‘I know I've heard you say this a thousand times, but you said it a little differently this time, and all of a sudden it clicked.’ I just love those because they're so visceral to the reader or the listener.”—JS“Advisory retainers are another option where you can start to straddle the difference between classic consulting (where you're doing) and classic coaching (where you're always there).”—RMThe Experience Economy Episode with Joe Pine

Planning around the amped up fear about uncertainty—recession, inflation, monetary policy, cryptocurrency, war, politics (just to name a few).The power of building even more discreet and creative niches—and making money from them in new ways while serving people who energize and inspire you.
The birth of a major social media platform that optimizes information exchange within communities—with tighter controls on access.Soloists will keep multiplying, especially those migrating from tech space layoffs and those disenchanted with corporate business-as-usual.We crave connection even more after a long shut-down—we are drawn to those who help us feel connected in our work and our lives.RESOURCESRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | TwitterQuotables“There is going to be so much fear about things like recession inflation, monetary policy, war, politics—and it's easy to get sucked into that. But those who don't—those who conquer it—have got the opportunity to up our game and take home a bigger share of the marbles.”—RM“There's a great line from Game of Thrones. There's a character called Little Finger, and he's talking about how the world will be thrown into chaos. And he says ‘Chaos is a ladder’. And it's such a great way to look at it…like it can be good.”—JS“Niching is actually fun because you're finding your people, you're finding the way that you can use your superpower…the next thing you know, your business is full of people who energize and inspire you.”—RM“Another social media related prediction that I'll make is that LinkedIn benefits from all of this bananas on Twitter.”—JS“A reasonable number (of those laid off from tech) will say, you know what? 
I'm done. I'm done with somebody else having control over me…I am gonna do this on my own.”—RM“There's a really interesting development in the AI world called stable diffusion, which turns text prompts into unbelievable 2D images.”—JS“Actuarial valuations were a commodity, but nobody recognized it until somebody decided to start a new firm and change the pricing structure. And then guess what? All the big firms dropped their prices and started to finally look at that data as a commodity.”—RM“If your clients cannot differentiate you from other people who have a similar looking resume in any meaningful way—like they don't see any meaningful difference between you and the next 10 people—then you're on sort of thin ice.”—JS

Why frictionless publishing and distribution is usually the way to go (and what to do when it isn’t).One publishing tech stack suggestion for low friction daily posting and sharing.Working around the downside of automation, AKA how to make sure your posts aren’t riddled with typos.Evaluating alternative social media distribution options.Quotables“It's really important to make this stuff as frictionless as possible so that you can just stick to the really important piece, which is coming up with brilliant new insights and getting them out to the people who are excited to read them.”—JS“I schedule everything that can be scheduled.”—RM“Zapier gives you these little building blocks that you can just drag and drop or select from a list.”—JS“I'm always looking for preset easy ways to do some of this kind of automation without making yourself crazy.”—RM“A relatively new addition to my stack is Grammarly. I installed Grammarly on everything and wow—immediately addicted.”—JS“Cutting and pasting my post into ConvertKit and sending it to myself allows me to see it like the reader does, and I will edit in ways that I wouldn't otherwise.”—RM“If you are just syndicating content to these platforms, your engagement's not gonna be really high.”—JS“Once you've gotten in the habit (of posting) and you're feeling good, then look carefully at the social distribution of what you're doing, because every platform is different.”—RM

How your target audience can guide how much you reveal about yourself and/or your politics.Deciding which boundaries and guardrails make sense for you, your work and how you want to roll. The advantage we have as soloists—but don’t always use—when deciding how much of ourselves to share.One technique to deal with clients who have disclosed something distasteful to your core values (but you can’t fire them yet).RESOURCESRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | TwitterQuotables“I'm not saying no to (talking about) chicken vindaloo, I'm saying yes to ‘Let's talk about pricing today’.”—JS“If you're doing B2B to big corporates—unless you're running a politically oriented law firm—then you're probably not talking politics.”—RM“I don't know how to build a business or help someone build a business where you really don't care about your clients.”—JS“We’re soloists—we get to decide…we're not working for ‘the man’ getting a salary and having to serve whoever comes in the door.”—RM“Maybe you're not there yet, but you will be able to become increasingly picky over time (about who you take as clients) and it's delightful.”—JS“If you can't say goodbye right now, then you put them on the list—they're the first one that's gonna go, and you'll find somebody else to replace them.”—RM“Just write something that you want to learn a lot more about. Pick that as your central topic, and if you’re really excited to learn more, you don't have to be an expert.”—JS“Think about glass or plexiglass so you can see them, but they can't touch you. That negativity, that thing that you really don't like, can't touch you—that's a technique that therapists use all the time.”—RM

When automating or outsourcing tasks makes it clear that they don’t need to be done at all.How to evaluate contractors and advisors for signs that they’re saving—vs. costing—you time and money.How to think about out-of-pocket cost vs. your time and the complexity of your business operation.Why you want to periodically re-evaluate your existing leverage and how it’s working for you.The role of your mindset when working with outsiders (or paying their invoice).Quotables“It's usually just making (automation leverage) simpler by shaving off stuff that apparently doesn't need to be there.”—JS“How do you know when you cross the line from leverage saving you money to costing you money?”—RM“In the context of this episode, the question becomes ‘do I even need to hire anyone to do this at all?’ Like maybe I shouldn't even be doing this anymore.”—JS“So it's really being aware of when someone you're handing things off to is making your life more difficult rather than less.”—RM“In re-evaluating places where you create leverage, I feel like systems is the one that's the easiest. If we're talking about SOPs and text documents, they're so fluid and easy to update and super useful.”—JS“Deciding to outsource something—or even thinking about outsourcing—changes how you think about things. Either you don't miss it at all or you ask ‘why was I doing that?’”—RM“Ask: is there a way I can optimize this in a one-time way that will produce ongoing leverage from this money that I'm spending?”—JS“There might be something in there (SaaS upgrades) that we hadn't considered before, that we hadn't known was available that might make our lives so much better.”—RM

Four primary ways to assemble and deliver your expertise—and the pros and cons of each.Shifting your mindset while shifting your service and product packaging, AKA how to move upstream confidently.How to conduct a listening tour of your ideal clients and buyers for focused direction on (re)packaging and price points.Integrating what your audience most wants from you with your genius zone.RESOURCESRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | TwitterQuotables“You have this expertise that produces results, but you're used to delivering it in just one particular way… 
How can we come up with some different ways to assemble it and deliver it?”—JS“There’s the fear factor: If you're used to getting $50,000 to build something and now you’ll get $5,000 to outline it, you’re thinking ‘where am I gonna get the other 45,000?’”—RM“If you're an order taker and you disagree with the orders, it's like the world telling you to move upstream.”—JS“Think assessments which allow you to shift your revenue and to productize your knowledge into something that's easier to sell.”—RM“It's not that difficult to add some kind of upfront design or architecture phase to whatever the thing is that you normally build.”—JS“I like listening tours where you're going to people who are your ideal clients, and you're asking them about the biggest problems they're trying to solve—and you find out more about that, so you get a sense of magnitude.”—RM“I like to ask historically, have you tried to solve this in the past? How much money or sleep have you lost because of this problem? Things like that, because they can answer that. Like they are the expert on those questions.”—JS“Instead of just looking to what other people are doing, we have to really understand what our audience wants from us.”—RM

Why profitability is the ultimate anti-vanity metric that will give you a quick read on the health of your business.How to start thinking about your time as part of your profit equation.One way to value your business that will rewire how you think about its profitability. The thrills of desire-based planning—and learning to consider and manage opportunity cost.Quotables“It's so easy to get wrapped up in ‘Oh, my podcast downloads are increasing’, or ‘My mailing list is growing dramatically’, or ‘My website traffic is going up’. None of that matters if you're not increasing your profitability steadily over time.”—JS“It's really tempting to just think that as soloists, we don't have any real costs so we don’t have to think about profitability.”—RM“The thing I do like about an S Corp is it is financially separated—the business and your personal money is separated. You have to run payroll, you have to pay FICA, you have to do all that stuff.”—JS“You know how much leverage you have when you try to sell or even think about selling a business. What is this actually worth if I'm not here?”—RM“So you can take your $245 million and put it where the sun don't shine because you are wrong and I'm not gonna do what you're asking me to do, which is bad work.”—JS“It's what I think of as desire-based planning. You ask what do I want? What is my desire? Who do I want to serve? What revolution do I want to lead? What new thing do I want to learn?”—RM“Given that constraint of not the entire full tube of toothpaste, you get creative about how you're gonna get that last bit out.”—JS“The thing that always makes me sad for people is when I see them not making decisions because they don't know what to do—so they do nothing.”—RM

How do you/they disclose that there will be real-time training happening?Your role as the buyer when your seller isn’t coming to you with full disclosure and pricing options.Assessing the impact on your authority when you tell your client you’re not an expert (and the surprisingly positive view most buyers will take).How not to fall into the employee mindset trap—and what to do instead.Using new challenges as a way to move up the food chain with your clients.RESOURCESRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | TwitterQuotables“Should you always warn the client that you don't have experience in something they've asked you to do? My answer to that is yes. Why wouldn't you?”—JS“When you’re on the buyer's side…asking those pricing and cost questions up-front—even if your person isn’t bringing them forward—makes the working relationship so much better.”—RM“It might be an opportunity for you to learn on the job, but you should give them some kind of picture of how long you think it would take so they can at least have an estimated price.”—JS“When I heard ‘I worked those hours and you owe me’ that told me their mindset was an employee mindset versus a business owner mindset.”—RM“Never accept ‘I have no idea’ as an answer.”—JS“We want to be business owners, perhaps partners in what they're doing. We don't want to be a vendor, and we don't want to be an employee.”—RM“If you are a commando type and you are the person that they call when they don't know who to call, you can be dropped behind enemy lines and come away with a win.”—JS“When you don't know something, that’s your opportunity to move up the food chain.”—RM

How the emotions they’re experiencing impact how they perceive you and the choices you’re offering.Why you can charge more (and sell faster) when you’re referred by someone your buyer trusts.Why your buyer compares your price to something totally different (a car, a trip, a fill-in-the-blank).How your buyer thinks about the increments between your price tags (and how to apply that to your pricing model).Why some buyers will pay more for speed—and how to set yourself as their premium choice.Quotables“There can be a whole bunch of emotions wrapped around the delivery.”—JS“We didn't ask what it cost—we didn't care.”—RM“Bob can charge a lot more than the next person who does what Bob does because you got a referral...If you didn't get a referral, you're Googling for a generic category or solution.”—JS“When they gave us the final number and the guy was out of earshot, I looked at my husband and said ‘well, that was a weekend away’.”—R“They purposely put you in a scenario where you're highly likely to say yes to anything reasonable.”—JS “The fact that they were so specialized…and so prepared for whatever happened —I was impressed with them (and would buy again).”—RM“There's a very small list of things that would not be like this—where you've got a problem, you want it fixed, and the faster it gets fixed, the more you're willing to pay.”—JS“It was like magic.”—RM

The four aspects of being a soloist that you’ll want to consciously examine now—and revisit over time.How to discover whether you’re a good candidate to hire employees for your business.Setting financial goals for your business and deciding where your “enough” lies.Incorporating time off into your work life (and the magic of boundary setting) in a way that fits your personal vision.Building the right amount of flexibility—for you—into how you work, where you work and when you work.RESOURCESRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | TwitterQuotables“Being a soloist is awesome…it allows you to have some dreams that would be really hard to achieve when you're working for somebody else.”—RM“If you don't have your objectives defined or the vision for what these four things are going to look like in the future, then it's really difficult to decide what to do.”—JS“Ask yourself: Do I enjoy the idea of leading employees? Do I want to inspire them? 
Do I want to show them how to do things? Do I want to mentor them? Do I want to listen when they have issues?”—RM“Once you replace your salary, then it's like, all right, do I need more and/or how much more do I want?”—JS “There comes this point where you start to look at the future and you think, ‘I'm gonna do this for the next 20 years?’”—RM“It's not like you need to alert the media and be like, ‘Okay, I'm not answering email between these hours or on these days.’”—JS“If you don't think about the intention for your business, if you don't examine it, then it's easy to let your business start to run you instead of the other way around.”—RM “How much time do I want away from doing client work—doing delivery—so that I can either work on the business or play with the kids?”—JS

Shifting your mindset from “I must be a guru” to “I want to contribute to the conversation”.Battling imposter syndrome and perfectionism by thinking about expertise from your prospective clients’ point of view.Adopting the consulting mindset of “I’m here to help” vs. “I’m awesome at this”.How to speak up and contribute to your ideal audience long before you feel like an expert or an authority.Quotables“I try to point out to people that if you know way more about your area of expertise than your ideal buyer, then as far as they're concerned, you are an expert.”—JS“If you're earlier in your career when you go out on your own, you can think ‘Oh, who am I to call myself an expert?’”—RM“The reason I started thinking about perfectionism along with imposter syndrome is because you can combat those things by helping.”—JS“Is the guy who does my WordPress site the world's expert on WordPress? 
I doubt it. But I don't care because he gets whatever I need done.”—RM“’I'm here to help’ versus ‘I'm awesome at this’ is like automatically going to put you in more of a service posture, more of a consultative mode.”—JS“If you never say no, you're not a consultant.”—RM“When you show up, it's not about pitching or seeing how smart you are or anything like that. It's about finding out if you can help.”—JS“If you don't have a comparable level of expertise with somebody else—say the “guru”—that doesn't mean you don't have plenty of value to add to the conversation.”—RM

How years of conditioning have wired our brains to believe that more and/or harder work is always better than “sloth”.What happens when you move away from billable hours, where more work=more money.The importance of building some structure—for example a system for lead generation—so you’re always “gardening” whether your business is in a peak or valley.Why you want to hold a big picture vision beyond your business to keep you grounded and focused.RESOURCESRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | TwitterQuotables“It's not uncommon for people to be like, ‘I could never not be working like ALL the time.’”—JS“We've been sold with this idea that if you're not booked that you are failing.”—RM“You could be doing well, but if you don't know where your next client is coming from, that's not a great feeling.”—JS“You want to find that balance of how much lead generation you need to do on a regular basis. That becomes your system—and you work the system.”—RM “If you're complaining about how busy you are, then that's a sign that you don't want to be that busy.”—JS“We have a different version of what’s “enough”, but some people don't have any version. Like ‘it's never enough’ is their version.”—RM“If busy-ness isn't making you happy, then you know what monster you need to slay.”—JS“The gift of having a business like ours…is that we have to reinvent ourselves because at some point, there is a sea change around us and…we have the opportunity to change before it takes effect.”—RM

Three ways to scale your business with employees (and when it makes sense for them to be contractors instead).How to think about and map your monetization strategy when you have employees—and why cash flow is queen.What to do instead when you think it’s time to hire your first salesperson. The four steps to create personal leverage in your core business—with or without employees.Why your business deserves to be structured so you can live and work in your genius zone.Quotables“Hiring employees is held up like a milestone in the journey of every entrepreneur.”—JS“Having employees changes how you think about your business day to day.”—RM“Minimees are inexperienced versions of yourself where you're gonna mark up their time, bill them out and make the profit off of that.”—JS“(When you’re thinking of hiring) you first want to map out your monetization strategy.”—RM“If you're billing by the hour, just shut this episode off because what we're gonna talk about next is how to deliver more with less work.”—JS“You can hire a whole bunch of employees and go broke five times faster than you would otherwise.”—RM“What would you be considering hiring employees for? It's always because you think they're gonna create leverage…to make your business better.”—JS“I always wanted my employees to make plenty of money because it meant we were all really successful…I paid them based on the outcomes they met, and we could all make a lot of money.”—RM

How to think about email as a tool to spread your ideas and share your expertise.Why simple is often best—and what to focus on to keep it that way.Basic automations that will allow you to help more people at scale (without overcomplicating your life).Creating the client and buyer experience that stays true to your brand and message (hint: you’ll want to test how it’s working).RESOURCESRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | TwitterQuotables“If you're in the business of changing people's minds… it's a pretty good strategy to do it slowly over time, like drip information out in digestible bits, until finally it clicks.”—JS“We want email to work for us. We want it to engage people in our revolution—engage them in buying things from us, learning things from us.”—RM“Having things scheduled in advance and set to go out on a particular schedule is really useful from an impact standpoint, because you can help people for free at scale.”—JS“A welcome or nurture sequence…is where you're bringing them in a very nurturing, welcoming way. That's really important when we're talking about expertise, authority.”—RM“The cautionary tale is it's really easy to overcomplicate this at the beginning and think that you need to know every move each person makes to get it customized to the situation.”—JS“There's just something different about when you look at your emails from the buyer's point of view.”—RM“Periodically I'll have a big jump up in subscribers and it'll like, push me into a new category price wise and I'll be like, eh, maybe it's time to prune.”—JS “It's the brand experience—what do you want people to experience as they go through these different emails with you?”—RMLinksDitching Hourly with Jason Resnick 

How the retainer execution model rewards a clients for life strategy, but can keep you on the gilded hamster wheel.The required mindset shift as you move away from strictly execution to higher value consulting.How to think about dandelion projects where you stay in touch with client team members as they scatter to new companies (and which business models can easily leverage this).The altitude shift from “hands” consulting to advisory work and why that tends to down-shift client longevity.Quotables“Think of a retainer as charging a periodic amount…for a given set of deliverables. An advisory retainer is not that. An advisory retainer is where you are not executing—you are giving strategic advice.”—RM“The thing about this sort of ‘hands-on’ retainer…it's like a job. It's predictable and safe and probably can be a lot longer term than an advisory retainer.”—JS“When you start that transition (to advisory)…it feels like ‘wait a minute, I'm not doing enough for this money. I need to be busier.’ You have to make a mindset shift.”—RM“Think about a dandelion project—where a buyer brings you in, and you do good work for them…and then that team from that company disperses, and they go to five other companies.”—JS“It's different working with the CEO than it is with the director level of a function. Your impact is bigger. Your potential influence is larger. And the price of failure is higher. That's why you don't come out of school and go coach the CEO.”—RM“The easiest sale is new stuff to old clients because you already have trust. They already know you're legit. They already know that you deliver results.”—JS“Growing your altitude…allows you to operate at a much higher level. And by the way, that level is exceedingly lucrative.”—RM “I've got some students who've done internal systems for gigantic brand names—like names you'd recognize—and they've just oozed from department to department.”—JS

How to think about your intellectual property and the steps to take to protect it under U.S. law.When you might decide to give your content away to spread an idea vs. keep it close for revenue generation.The role of registering and monitoring various elements of your intellectual property.How to decide whether you’re ready to license your knowledge (hint: it’s not for beginners).Using licensing to scale your business and create a saleable asset.Quotables“We use intellectual property laws to provide a legal monopoly on using our intellect.”—EA“Under U.S. copyright law…the copyright applies at the moment of creation.”—EA“If that trademark has secondary meaning in the mark—like everyone associates it with you—you really do want to make sure that you get protection for that so that you don't lose it.”—EA“Make sure you are monitoring use of that (trademarked) term on the internet. So if people are using it and you're not asking them to stop using it…then you can lose it.”—EA“There is a perception that IP or intellectual property is a product and it's not a product like a book or a course, or even a licensing program. IP is the exclusive right to exploit your intellect.”—EA“When we are experts, we are creating intellectual property every single day, because intellectual property is the fruit of our intellect.”—EA“A license is anytime I'm giving permission to a third party to use my intellectual property.”—EA“Obviously it (licensing) is not for beginners. It really is for someone who has established their methodology, that you have a record of success of happy clients where you do have these processes in place.”—EA“The key (to make your firm saleable) is making sure that it's something that can run without you…you wanna make sure that you've developed that independence.”—EALinksErin's website Think Beyond IPThe Hourly To Exit podcastRESOURCESRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | Twitter

Why this is the wrong question to decide whether to enter the authority space—and what to ask instead.How your risk tolerance—and financial runway—impact your likelihood of achieving success in the short-term.Why an emotional connection to the revolution you’re leading gives you an authority advantage.How skills, timing and preparation (such as building an email list and/or a side hustle) will impact your success trajectory.The importance of maintaining your focus and discipline by consistently saying no to everything not in your zone.Quotables“I understand the desire for someone to want to know the percentage chance, but it just feels like the wrong question.”—JS“Your success definition is so pivotal to your odds—and there are so many possible ways to define success.”—RM“You try to decrease the odds of a loss and minimize the impact of a loss should that happen.”—JS“It makes sense to really think through your choices and the timeline because authority is a long game.”—RM“Be clear about who you want to help. That is really super useful and increases your odds of success.”—JS“You need to say no to a client who's not ideal, say no to working outside of your genius zone, say no to working crazy hours when your intention is to have a more manageable life.”—RM“I don't know how you could write a book (to build authority), if you weren't really into helping this audience or really into this particular rabbit hole.”—JS“Decide who you want to go after, decide what your revolution is and then you can figure out how to monetize it.”—RM

How writing and speaking play different roles in crystalizing your thoughts.The role that consistently writing and editing plays in the evolution of your authority.Why (and how) editing allows you to deepen not only your market authority, but the impact of your work.What happens when you socialize your writing—and how to edit your way to the right audience.LINKSRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | TwitterQuotables“The difference between writing and speaking is crystallizing your thoughts. I've never heard anybody say that speaking crystallizes their thoughts.”—JS“Writing is really a plus for introverts because you don't have to talk to a million people to do this.”—RM“Daily writing does something weird in your head where you start to see ideas everywhere.”—JS“You can't just try to put the work out there. You have to do it consistently because it's that consistency that really tests us: what do we have to say?”—RM“I did a sort of crowdsourced model where I offered a choose your own adventure discount structure. But (to get the book discount) I was gonna bug you relentlessly for questions, typos, any kind of feedback, comments...”—JS“I didn't know what else to write. I felt like I had bled out on the paper already.”—RM“I'll use examples from people who are in different places, probably almost never all in the same email, but I'll bring in examples or I'll ask for permission to reprint a question.”—JS“That preparation piece (for an interview) can give you those ideas—those unpolished gems—that you can then take and polish through editing.”—RM

Why the word is both insidious and judgmental—and how it can easily become manipulative. What happens—especially to go-to, high visibility authorities—with those who consistently use ‘should’ in their client interactions (and what to say instead).How to use your point of view as an alternative to ‘should’ conversations or directives.Dealing with the most common ‘shoulds’ you’re likely to hear as you build your expertise business.The difference between saying ‘should’ to or about yourself and using it with other people.Quotables“Should is a radioactive word for me. It's usually a sign that I'm making massive assumptions about the other person.”—JS“It's way too easy to pontificate vs. actually help your client change whatever situation it is you've been hired to fix.”—RM“Stop should-ing on people.”—JS“We all know there's nuance—no two situations, no two people, no two clients are ever exactly the same.”—RM“Berklee teachers would never say that music has rules. They would say that different styles have different style practices.”—JS“If you're the type of person who responds to judgment and potential shaming…’should’ can make you start to question your own logic and thought process.”—RM“When someone gives you unsolicited ‘should’ advice, just nod and smile... and then ignore them.”—JS“The word ‘should’ is so insidious, cuz it's like you're trying to get into my brain and tell me what to do.”—RM

What exactly is a business model (and how to think about yours)?The difference between your business model and how—and what—you charge.The four most common business models we see in the expertise space and how to make each one work for you.Considering hiring employees? How to think about growing with—and without—employees.Sidestepping the slippery slope that is hiring specialized help—from mini-me’s to social VAs—to grow your business.LINKSRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | TwitterQuotables“How are you going to create, deliver and capture value?”—JS“If we're not creating value, we're not going to make money for very long.”—RM“You could use value pricing to increase the amount that you can charge and increase your profit margin.”—JS“If you do want to scale with employees…you have to create a job—actually define very specifically what this person will do.”—RM“’I'll just hire someone good and throw them to the wolves.’ That's what happens.”—JS“Membership models have some very specific operational kinds of things that impact how you market, how you sell, whether you do ads, whether you don't.
”—RM“A product line could take off and cause you to make a decision to say ‘oh, you know what? I would rather have customers than clients’
.”—JS“You think when you build a business (at least in the U.S.) that you have to have employees, but it's about thinking past what we're “supposed” to do and getting clear on what it is we want to build.”—RMRESOURCESRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | Twitter

When doing more isn’t the right move—and how it can actually prove counter-productive.How to apply 20% thinking to your business growth moves.Using consistency in making outbound development calls (to prospects, media and your Authority Circle) to avoid the desperation zone.Becoming aware of where you’re getting your dopamine hits—and managing them.Why strategy trumps all (and what to do if you don’t have one).Quotables“You've done your 20% for the day that produces 80% of the result. So why are you sitting in front of your computer, fiddling with a hundred things that don't need to be done?”—RM“Watering your garden in the summer twice a day is a good thing. So watering it 20 times a day is even better, right?...it's worse than counterproductive—it'll actually wreck what you're doing.”—“The easiest way to get frustrated is to do more outbound sales calls when you don't have enough work…that translates into a little bit of desperation.”—RM“I care what those people (in my slack community) think much more than I care what some anonymous coward on Twitter thinks.”—JS“I try to be very careful of where I'm getting my dopamine hits.”—RM“You can slowly—not overnight probably—but you can make it so that client stuff is not 40 hours a week of billing hourly.”—JS“There's a signal that consistency gives—it doesn't mean that it has to be every Monday at 8:00 AM—but there is some expectation that you're going to show up…on a regular basis. It’s how we build trust.”—RM“I think some people put a level of effort into social media that probably doesn't produce much.”—JS“The prescription, if you don't have a strategy, is to get one right now.”—RM

Why having partners with different risk tolerances can actually be helpful.Engaging the status quo person—who is usually happy—in a change that will work for both parties.The role of identity in business conflicts and how to understand yours and your partner’s.Why resolving even minor conflict often means revisiting your joint objectives and strategy.How to be brave and address potential conflicts early so they don’t fester or run you off the rails.LINKSRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | TwitterQuotables“Plenty of soloists have a spouse that has a dramatically different risk tolerance than they do.”—JS“(Being different), you keep each other from going too far off the rails, but it does mean that there's the potential for disagreement, for conflict.”—RM“The status quo person is usually happy as a clam, and thinking... ‘if my partner would just stop bugging me about posting on social media every day everything would be fine.’”—JS“It's also about how we feel individually. Who we are and what we want to have happen in the world. When you have two business partners, your personal identity may get attached to different things in different ways.”—RM“You'll see conflict over a proposal crop up because, let's say, one person is more revenue driven and the other person is more mission driven. In a case like this, you're never gonna be able to agree how to price it.”—JS“There's a lot of those strategic and foundational identity things that happen (between partners) and the tactical issues are just how they manifest.”—RM“You might both be aligned on the objective, but you still have to agree on the strategy. There are probably multiple strategies that could work, but you gotta make sure you're both using the same one.”—JS“It's important to go back and look at the strategy, the glue that holds this partnership together. We have to be able to talk about that and be brave.”—RM

Rethinking any outmoded belief systems we carry over from our jobs—for example that the “boss” is always right.Where we owe our obligation and allegiance when it comes to dealing with client requests and direction changes.Why collaborative relationships reinforce the value of your expertise and contribute to outcomes that stick.How you can determine—as early as a sales conversation—whether your potential client will be your dream (or your nightmare).Setting boundaries to avoid becoming a martyr to the project (or your client).Quotables“You are there to fiercely defend the outcome of the project.”—JS“The way that a client feels when they own this thing that you've created together, it creates a bond between you. They're gonna want to talk about you. They're gonna wanna bring you in again…it's really powerful collaboration.”—RM“It happens from the very beginning—setting up the expectation that they're not your boss, that it's a collaboration.”—JS“A client can be the nightmare or the dream. It's not about the person—it's about the match between you and the outcome you want to create together.”—RM“When you have them share with you how this will fit into the overall business and you pivot into The Why Conversation, bad clients will hate it and good clients will love it.”—JS“You only want to work with people for whom you can create these transformational outcomes together.”—RM“Just imagine what your business would look like if you were producing a trail of smiling clients.”—JS“Start with believing that you have something valuable to offer and setting the boundaries you need so you don't become a martyr to the project.”—RM

The role of live speaking in building authority and how it fits into your business model.How to decide which conferences are worth your time, energy (and cash) to attend.An array of tactics to leverage your conference attendance.Using media intentionally to engage conference attendees and make your new relationships more sticky.Picking the right conferences as a new(ish) speaker and how to ensure your investment will pay off.LINKSRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | TwitterQuotables“I did a conference in 2015 that was exactly my target market for Hourly Billing Is Nuts, and I still keep in touch with people I met there.”—JS“If you're doing conferences—whether you're speaking or attending—there's a certain amount of energy you have to put into it to be good, much less to be great and to reap something from your investment.”—RM“Meeting people in person creates a deeper connection faster.”—JS“If you travel 1,000 miles and then sit in your hotel room for most of the conference that's not gonna work.”—RM“Let's say there's a big conference coming up and your ideal buyers are going to be there. You can piggyback a workshop on the day before. You don't even need a ticket to the conference—you can just get a room in the hotel.”—JS“When you're a speaker at a conference, you know what your job is…When you're an attendee, you still have a job, but not everybody recognizes that.”—RM“Speaking at a conference is great for your street cred. It's social proof aka third party endorsement from the conference organizers, implicity saying that you know what you're talking about.”—JS“If you're just getting started (speaking), pick a conference that is big enough so that you feel like it's worth your time, but small enough so that you have a good chance of getting in.”—RM

Why it’s always a good idea to keep evaluating your client base and your product/service ladder—and what to consider now.How to think about economy-fueled pivots to ensure you don’t make fear-based moves.Managing your mindset (and your nerves) through economic change—and why staying closely connected to clients helps all of you.One hidden opportunity to grow your authority (and potentially your business) during economic uncertainty.Quotables“The kind of—almost advantage—of news about a recession or whatever is that you've got months potentially to plan for it.”—JS“The strategic part of this is to really think about your client base and start to imagine what might happen to them in the future.”—RM“If you're experiencing any kind of like trepidation or nerves around the economy right now, guess what? Your clients probably are too.”—JS“There sometimes needs to be a little air between checking in on clients to see how they're doing and offering them a new product.”—RM“I think that the key here is resisting the urge to go into your shell and batten down the hatches.”—JS“If your client base is all saying the same thing (when you check in with them), you're getting some themes to write about and speak about.”—RM“It's okay to be nervous, just don't act on the nerves.”—JS“It’s really important to manage your own mindset vs. letting the media do it for you.”—RM

Why—and under what circumstances—you might want to consider a listening tour.How to choose who to interview and increase your chances for getting a yes.Uncovering specific belief systems and comments that you can incorporate into your sales copy.The one question that will get your interviewees to go deeper in sharing their experiences.Why avoiding any sort of persuasion is critical (and how to stay in listening mode).LINKSRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | TwitterQuotables“It’s an ideal gig when you can basically package and sell your expertise.”—RM“There's something about writing, actual writing, not typing, that focuses me more on the conversation.”—JS“My marketing copy came out of the mouths of the women that I interviewed.”—RM“There's just something magical about unfiltered input from the buyers’ side of the table.”—JS“You really have to look at this as a listening tour—not a selling tour, not even a warm-up-to-buy tour.”—RM“Obviously this whole episode is to encourage listeners to do this…but it's also about how you're going to communicate the offer in a way that the right people will recognize that it's for them.”—JS“I looked at my job (on the listening tour) as “tell me more”. How do you think about that? What made you think that way?”—RM“You don't want to be too rigid in your thinking and then go out and try and validate that, because it'll turn persuasive and that'll just be gross.”—JS

The difference between getting critiqued by your email list, social media types and your intimates.How to think about criticism from your circle and use it to benefit the revolution you’re leading.When to unplug or take steps to protect your mental health.Deciding whether your critics are coming for you (to be helpful) or at you (to tear you down a peg).When receiving criticism can be a form of deep care (and how to keep the right kind coming).Quotables“I think people (critics), are a little bit more thoughtful in email than social media.”—JS“Just breathe. Walk away from the keyboard...”—RM“When somebody on my list sends me one of these sort of polite pushback kinds of things, they're usually right.”—JS“I have unfollowed and blocked (social media critics) for my mental health because I don't need somebody who's just gonna go around trolling.”—RM“Where do you get your canary in the coal mine when you actually are wrong, or you actually have too shallow of an understanding of something that's much deeper?”—JS“I can feel if they (critics) are coming for me or at me—and I take critical feedback really well from the people that I know are for me.”—RM“You have to consider the messenger. When someone on my list pushes back, I'm like ‘this feedback is totally valid because you are the person I made it for.’”  —JS“It's so valuable to have somebody tell you when you're doing something that they perceive differently than you do.”—RM

Just as we have each built our own systems to produce our desired outcomes, there is no one perfect model of working.Conscious experimenting—with your ultimate vision firmly in mind—will help you master how to best invest your business building time.Why when you find your sweet-spot, “work” doesn’t have to feel like work.How pivoting from serving clients day-to-day to high-level advisory or teaching (books, courses, speaking) shifts how you spend your time.LINKSRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | TwitterQuotables“I don't think about it consciously on a weekly basis. It's something I think about at the beginning of the year..what's going to be my strategy for the coming year?”—JS“What happens for a lot of people is we get caught in the weeds. Like how am I going to get through this week with client deliverable X?”—RM“Did you hear what my schedule looks like? I don't need a vacation.”—JS“I want work to be fun.”—RM“Slack is my social media…I know that it's not going to be a cesspool of doom scrolling.”—JS“When you're doing what you love, you can do it for as long as you want to.”—RM“Podcasting became much more important because it serves a similar purpose to speaking at conferences. They're not exactly the same of course, but bang for the buck wise, podcasting is a lot more my speed these days.”—JS“Who do you want to give pride of place in your head to…what is it that you want to write about and talk about and teach them?”—RM

Why the intersection of idle time, an outlet and a deadline is exactly what you need to build content for your expertise business (and authority for you).The importance of mindset and how to keep yours working FOR you as you go about growing your business.Giving yourself some guardrails to develop great content efficiently—without putting a damper on your creativity.How to get out of your own way so you can release your personal genius for other people to benefit from.Quotables“It's pretty common for non-business things to creep in to business coaching and become obstacles. And a lot of them have to do with internal monologue stories.”—JS“We all have our own internal hurdles to leap over. And you have to understand what those are.”—RM“I feel a lot worse after I've been exposed to a TV for 90 minutes.”—JS“When you have a deadline and some idle time or some free space in your brain, things happen.”—RM“If you want to be recognized as the go-to person, as the expert for your area of expertise, then you need to be producing content. It’s probably a great rule of thumb to be producing content regularly.”—JS“You're not just writing to write or have a podcast to hear yourself talk. It's about figuring out what you want to share. How are you going to get your audience to the transformations that you promise?”—RM“The best thing about daily writing is it makes you better. It makes you smarter. It makes your insights deeper. It differentiates you because you have new ideas or old ideas framed in radically new ways.“—
JS“The important thing is that we get out of our own way as much as we can and put that genius that each of us have out in the world for other people to benefit from.”—RM

The big money decisions you’ll want to make early and how to decide between setting up a sole proprietorship, an LLC or a Sub S.When does it make sense to build processes to handle things like paying yourself and funding and paying taxes?What to ask your CPA and why you don’t want to wait till year-end to get advice.When to look for longer-term, perhaps tax-advantaged opportunities for savings.How to think of and use your business profits now to build your desired legacy later on.Quotables“Usually the starting point is a sole proprietorship and you don't want to hang out there too long.”—EG“If you can't pay yourself what the IRS calls “reasonable compensation”…it's not time for you to be an S-corp yet.”—EG“I'm really big on paying yourself a consistent salary—not necessarily varying with your revenue stream—because with consultants, expertise businesses, coaching businesses, you get these roller coaster spikes of revenue.”—EG“Get a small refund or maybe owe a little bit…but we try to always avoid these four or five figure surprises that you're writing a check for in April.”—EG“There's a lot of relationships with CPAs where you're just sending them a packet of documents in February, and they're sending you back something in April, and you're either happy about it or sad about it.”—EG“My preference, especially for somebody in an expertise business where they're a soloist, would be to look at a solo 401k. You can only have a solo 401k if you and or your spouse are the only employees or owners of the business.”—EG“You say: ‘I can use this to change my trajectory or my lifestyle or my retirement plan. I could use this money I'm making in this business. And the more profit I make means that I could pay off my mortgage sooner.’”—EG“It's always good to have an out of tax season conversation with a CPA… And have somebody respond with ideas that you would have never thought of (or would have taken a lot of hours of research for you to get).”—EG“If you've noticed that you've acquired two more cars, a four Wheeler, three campers and a boat, it's probably time to start thinking about some tax advantageous ways that you can spend your money.”—EGLINKSErica Goode, CPA Erica’s Newsletter sign-up Rochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | Twitter

When you’re working like a dog (earning maybe $100-$250K billing hourly on a site like Upwork or from an agency or two) without real positioning—and you’re ready for a more livable alternative.When you’ve just left corporate life and are first hanging out your shingle as a freelancer or consultant.When you’re so new at your craft that you’re actually not that good yet.And even where we could make an edge case for hourly billing, we get hyper-specific on when/how to gracefully transition out.Quotables“They like the promise of not feeling like they're losing $200 an hour when they're on vacation.”—JS“Just go back to your source of leads…and significantly increase your hourly rate.”—RM “Why would anyone feel obligated to pay you some amount of money per hour because you decided to have a really expensive lifestyle?”—JS“It's a very rare person who comes right out of corporate and says ‘I'm going to do productized services. Here's what they are. Boom. Let's go’.”—RM“I don't think it never makes sense to think about how many hours something's going to take you to do, just don't base your prices on it.”—JS“Hourly rates just exacerbate that inner discussion about whether or not you're worth it.”—RM“Productized services make it easier for you to hit a home run, to deliver positive ROI, to get a great testimonial.”—JS“Offering productized services gets rid of a lot of extraneous BS because you are hyper-focused on delivering only the things that you are really good at delivering.”—RM

Why May is the perfect time to schedule a strategic tax planning call with your CPA.How to pay yourself and fund your tax liability, even when you have spikes in your income.Who you need on your team to get the right advice—and why it’s worth hiring experts (hint: peace of mind is priceless).Setting up tax-advantaged plans now instead of waiting until year-end.LINKSRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | TwitterQuotables“So I have these like quarterly spikes…that make it hard to have a set it and forget it payroll.”—JS“As long as you give your accountant a couple of weeks to breathe (after tax day), they're usually anxious…to think strategically vs. just plowing out a bunch of tax returns.”—RM“I'd rather have the IRS hold it (my tax withholding)…I just don't want to know about it. I don't want to ever see it.”—JS“I'm pretty sure my tax accruals are more than I'm going to need. And so after I pay the IRS next year, I'll pay myself a bonus with whatever's left.”—RM“When I started my solo consulting business, I got a financial planner, a bookkeeper and a lawyer.”—JS“People who have left consulting (to go solo), the first thing they do is incorporate because they're worried about liability. You're like, ‘ah, the first thing I'm going to do is protect myself and my assets’.”—RM“It still makes sense to check in with someone who has got a bigger picture, knows more detail about what's going on—we're fans of expertise over here.”—JS“You have a lot of options depending on your business structure to tuck some money away pre-tax…it's worth having that chat with your accountant.”—RM

Addressing the chicken/egg nature of developing an idea for your course with targeting the ideal audience for it.Why building cohorts will improve the effectiveness of your course (and your future sales).How to build your course materials with reasonable deadlines that match your comfort level with teaching the topic.Why we hate launch hype and what to do instead.Quotables“The majority of the time you probably are thinking of teaching something bigger than you need.”—JS“When we're trying to teach something that involves significant behavior change, that's when I really love building a cohort.”—RM “I found it (the cohort experience) drawing me back almost like a social media network might because I wanted to find out what happened with Jason's thing that he was working on.”—JS“When you have a cohort, you are actively engaging with them. And for people who are sort of natural teachers, that feels amazing.”—RM“You do want to figure out what you think is going to make the most sense for you—not drain you, keep you energized, keep you engaged teaching the thing that you want to teach.”—JS“I want to have a really clear direction (when prepping material). I want to know how many sections and what's going to go in each one so that it makes sense.”—RM“If we sound cynical (about launches), it's because we are.”—JS“If it's right for you, I want you to have it. That is the (launch) message.”—RM

Our tendency (especially in proposal situations) to acquiesce to client requests—and how to re-direct that for the good of all.The power and status dynamics surrounding consultants serving clients and what happens if we start treating clients as higher status.How overdelivering can seep into your firm’s practices and where to nip it in the bud.Developing a healthy mindset around service delivery, providing value and decoupling your fees from effort.LINKSRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | TwitterQuotables“Your clients are a choice, just like your boss is a choice, but people often forget that walking away is one of the options.”—JS“You could say: ‘Listen, if we take out this step, I can't guarantee the transformation, and therefore I can't do that for you.’”—RM“The way to provide value to your clients is not to be obedient—it's to deliver results.”—JS“The proposal is the dress rehearsal for the engagement.”—RM“If you let prospective clients push you around in the sales process, it should come as no surprise when they push you around during the project.”—JS“The more that you consider yourself low status relative to clients, the worse you're going to feel about it.”—RM “There's so much ‘the customer's always right’ psychology. "Wouldn't it be better to give them more than less?" No, it really wouldn't.”—JS“This is about leveraging what you have—not playing status games that have you overdelivering and creating relationships that don't work for you.”—RMLinksTara McMullin's Instagram piece on over-delivering  RESOURCESRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | Twitter

Why using perfect grammar in a sales pitch or conversation still won’t guarantee you the deal.How to use grammar and language to communicate and persuade vs. to impress (and the role of status games).Why simplicity makes it easier to get the result you want.The role of grammar in expressing your brand and setting client/audience expectations.Quotables“You could do a sales pitch or a sales interview and use perfect grammar throughout and still not land the deal.”—JS“You adjust your language to meet them where they are.”—RM“You're not looking for an A+ on a book report. You're trying to get someone to change.”—JS“This is really more about simplicity and getting the result that you want.”—RM“It's all about communicating it to them in a way that is going to be digestible and not activate status roles.”—JS“Who's your audience? 
How do they communicate? What kinds of words are too big and too much?”—RM“If what you want is for the listener or the reader or the viewer to do something, then the most important thing is producing that action.”—JS“Language is part of the toolkit of a consultant or anyone who's trying to make transformational change in an audience.”—RM

Getting yourself the endorphin rush from physically getting up and going outside or meeting a friend.How to keep pushing the envelope even as you’re doing the routine things that make your business run.Why that feeling of putting your “baby” out there can feel crazy-scary—and how to do it anyway.How to tell the difference between when you’re laying groundwork for your next thing or just burning daylight.LINKSRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | TwitterQuotables“It was so much fun…I noticed that I felt like this total endorphin rush, I was in the best mood.”—JS“I've so trained myself into this virtual be efficient work from zoom/have phone conversations mode that it was almost like upsetting the apple cart to go to an in-person meeting.”—RM“It's not too bad to have an idea and then, like roughly a quarter later, launch it.”—JS“It doesn't mean that we don't double down on the things we're good at, but we just keep pushing that envelope on some level.”—RM“Talk to people like: ‘Hey, I've got three ideas for my next workshop I'm going to launch. Which one seems the most exciting to you?’”—JS“I'm waiting for somebody to write and go ‘Yeah, this is a stupid idea. And I don't ever want to hear from you again.’”—RM“If you can introduce really smart, fun people into the process (of getting outside), that sounds like a really good routine to get into.”—JS“There's always going to be those periods (of laying groundwork), but the ideal is that they're moving you towards something else, even if you're pulling your hair out while you're going through them.”—RM

Why book as business card is not the book that will still be relevant and valuable in 20-30 years.How to introduce your book content to ideal readers so they can help you use the right language, examples and stories.Using your book idea to build a tribe of support for your eventual launch.Positioning your book so it has a built-in base of readers—and is attractive to potential publishers.The benefits from teaching your material before you ever start writing the actual book.Quotables“I think this is more reliable path to write a book that could theoretically be still getting read 20 years from now.”—JS“If you're going to pitch your book to a publisher, they want to know: how does this book position against these other (competitive) books?”—RM“What you want is feedback from people who are hearing your stuff for the first time.”—JS“You need a launch team—you need a bunch of people supporting your book to help make it successful.”—RM“They might tell me my baby's ugly, but that's what I want. I don't wanna write the book and then find out that my baby's ugly.”—JS“It (a webinar) gives you a lot of experience with talking about the book and getting comfortable, listening and synthesizing what they're saying.”—RM“If people do show up for your webinar, you're getting a head start on your marketing language for the book itself.”—JS“For the kind of book that we're talking about, you've gotta have some other people invested in its success—where they get excited about it, they want to share it.”—RM

How books have been a pivotal source of his authority (and a substantial slice of his overall revenue).The role of his communities in concepting and testing book ideas—and why members who aren’t super fans are especially valuable.Why incremental and real-life experiments are so critical to testing new ideas.The value of going for small wins—even when complexity is the “better” solution.Why being better is not enough.LINKSRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | TwitterQuotables“The stuff I put in my books is the same stuff I share on stage or on a podcast. But they're devalued when we hear the voice, it's eh, but once it's in a book, it becomes biblical for some reason.”—MM“Why I’ve written so many (books) is I am working on any number at any given time, usually three to four in the works.”—MM“The book is the starting point for lead flow, but it's the end point of the knowledge. It's the best of what I have accumulated.”—MM“I use my subscribers and say, “Hey, we're going to concept—who's willing to try this out?” But I will, to some degree, intentionally exclude people who’ve tried stuff out in the past, trying to always approach new people and learn from them.”—MM“What a lot of people do in their writings is they make it so it's not palatable and you lose the reader before you even get a chance to serve them.”—MM“All my books are based upon this concept of quick, easy deployment.”—MM“Being better is not enough. But many of us rely on that, we say we are better. Why don't we gain more business? We have to be noticeable.”—MM“The only experience people have with us before doing business with us is our marketing. And if our marketing is inconsistent with the actual brand experience, there's a mistrust that's going to happen.”—MM LINKShttps://mikemichalowicz.com/

When moving from freelancing to consulting, how should I approach building my website portfolio? What kinds of best practices do you suggest?How do I make sure I don’t lose my technical edge as I transition to more strategic consulting?I’m not comfortable traveling or mingling with people whose vaccination and cautiousness status I don’t know—and yet it feels like everyone in my industry is anxious to attend events again. Is it possible to grow my authority business 100% virtually?I’ve built a YouTube audience of 2,000 and an email list of about 1,000 by sharing a passion of mine. While I love doing it, it’s eating up more of my time and I’d like to monetize this—where should I start?Quotables“Encourage the client to share specific benefits—probably with numbers—some kind of absolute or relative numbers of the improvement that they attribute to your contribution.”—JS“Think of your website, not as static, but as a living breathing thing.”—RM“You can go into the lab and when there's something big—something game-changing—that enables new things for you that your clients care about.”—JS“It's a little bit like riding a bicycle. You can not have ridden one for 10 years, but when you get back on you remember how to steer, you remember where your feet go. You know what to do.”—RM“Think of someone who you perceive as an authority. Have you ever met them? Probably not. Have you even been to a conference where they were? Probably not.”—JS“You can become an authority pretty much entirely virtually IF you design your business model to match that.”—RM“It gets down to who needs, who stands to benefit the most from your superpower and how different do they perceive you to be in terms of the options for solving this problem.”—JS“When talking to people who are already engaged in your worldview, they've signed on. And they're going to tell you what they want, not just from anybody to solve the problem, but what they want from you.”—RM

Why relying on referrals is a passive strategy with few controls—and a dangerous hidden cost.The difference between referrals and word of mouth from your authority-building efforts.The one exception where a referral system can be exactly the right approach (and it applies to a VERY small slice of experts).Why investing in broader market moves (e.g. publishing and speaking) will bring you business faster and more reliably than courting referrals.LINKSRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | TwitterQuotables“I'm like a control freak. I don't want to depend on maybe somebody sends someone my way…”—JS“I always help people if I can, but there's a limit to what you can do for any one person before you have to turn the meter on.”—RM“Like the difference between a hunting model and a gardening model, the word of mouth authority marketing is a gardening model.”—JS“Referrals are a long-term play—and they’re so uncontrollable.”—RM“I cannot stand this feeling of just hoping the phone rings.”—JS“If you're operating on an old model (and you haven’t positioned yourself well), depending on referrals is going to get worse.”—RM“It's that word of mouth that I would rather have, and it is more predictable than referrals—it’s more like tomatoes coming out of the garden.”—JS“There's such a difference in somebody who comes to you because of the authority that you've built—they come to you basically pre-sold.”—RM

Aligning your appearance—how you dress and style yourself—with your brand of authority.Why what matters most is what makes you feel confident and strong.The dangers in making assumptions about your audience’s judgement (or listening too closely to critics).How to match your exteriors with who you are, how you feel confident and the audience that you want to attract.When—and how—to call in the experts.Quotables“If people don't like your vibe, then okay—they don't get the joke. Go find someone who does.”—JS“There's also a sense of privilege that comes with this. If you're a white male, it's easier to say, oh, it doesn't matter what I wear, but if you're female or you're a person of color, it's a lot more complex.”—RM“It's almost like a game. Can I be so good and deliver results that are so outstanding that no one cares what I'm wearing?”—JS“It's not that there is this one size fits all look that you need to have in order to be an authority. It's a combination of what you want for yourself—what makes you feel powerful—and what helps attract the audience that you most want to attract.”—RM“They weren't looking for a guy to come in jeans and blaze orange sneakers and a black t-shirt so it was just a bad fit.”—JS“Once I hit a certain level, I was like, I don't care…I'm going to do that. And I don't care if anybody likes it or not.”—RM“If you don't know what it is that would make you feel confident…just get an expert—just like you're an expert at something.”—JS“It's finding the match between who you are, how you feel confident and the audience that you want to attract.”—RMLinkshttps://yourcolorstyle.com/https://elsaisaac.com/https://alexandrastylist.com/https://loriannrobinson.com/

Getting over any residual guilt from not charging based on your effort (“I can’t charge them that much—it wouldn’t be fair/right/honorable”).Why the best clients don’t really care about how much time you spend serving them—and what they do care about instead.How to begin shifting your sales conversations toward high value outcomes and away from time.The relationship between the altitude you’re operating at and the time it takes you to provide value.Quotables“Through conversation with the people for whom you are making the thing…you can think of it like a gift. It's like here, I made this for you.”—JS“That's a whole mindset shift, that all of a sudden you're going to be paid for access…it can even feel like highway robbery at first.”—RM“You should buy the most expensive one (mastermind) you can afford so that you will be slotted in with other people who are at your level. ”—JS“Price telegraphs value.”—RM“The reason it's so difficult for freelancers to value price is because they've never had a conversation with their past clients about what value they added.”—JS“When you understand what your work is going to produce, you can work differently on the project. You can work at a higher level, you can be more effective, you can ask better questions.”—RM“You can increase your altitude, the level at which you engage with the client…and almost invariably it's less work.”—JS “Everything that we're talking about in this episode is moving you up that ladder so that you're selling your brains not your hands. “—RM 
RESOURCESRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | Twitter

Why, if you’re not feeling like an imposter, you’re not “working hard enough” (a Seth Godin quote from episode 100).Facing the fear—and the resistance—and moving beyond a self-limiting label.How working to become an expert can raise imposter feelings (and what to do).Shifting your mindset to treat your work as an experiment.The benefits of focusing on the people you’re serving vs. your own fears and resistance.Quotables“If we could deconstruct what people mean when they say imposter syndrome…it's like fake. I'm a fake, because I don't know if this is going to work or I don't know if this is the right way to do it. I don't know how to do this thing.”—JS“The thing is it's really tempting to say, ‘Oh, I have imposter syndrome. I just can't do that.’ And so I don't like the label.”—RM“If this sounds like tough love at all, it is because we don't want you in 10 years to be still stuck in the same place.”—JS“The signal you’re becoming an expert is when you realize that you couldn't possibly know everything: ‘How do I niche down in the area of expertise that’s most intriguing? How do I think about this?’”—RM“Imposter syndrome is probably that you don't know if it's going to work. You're doing an experiment. It's not like scientists are imposters because they don't know what's going to happen at the end of the experiment.”—JS“The second we turn our focus away from ourselves and onto the audience, everything's easier. Because you're focused on them and getting them the things that they want.”—RM“You're not here to be perfect or better than someone else—you're here to help. And if you focus on that, you don't have to be perfect. You just need to be good enough.”—JS“Maybe it's work it till you make it instead of fake it till you make it.”—RMLinksThe Imposter Cure The Imposter Syndrome The Middle Finger Project 

Why a big chunk of trusting your voice is being brave enough to let your “weirdness” out so you can find your tribe.The value in being authentically consistent and how to course correct as you go.Learning to keep playing your game, in your style, no matter where you are and what you’re doing.Why trusting your voice is an iterative process—and how to ensure you’re consistently reinforcing who you are.LINKSRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | TwitterQuotables“I definitely let my inner weirdo out.”—JS“Part of this is just learning to trust that your weirdness is compatible with other people's weirdness.”—RM“What's the best part of you that's going to show up and be really thoughtful and consistent?”—JS“You play your game, your style.”—RM“Sometimes your inner weirdo is gonna preclude you being involved in certain things, but it's much more common for the opposite to be true.”—JS“Somebody else can’t empower you. You empower yourself to put your voice out there.”—RM“You’ve gotta find and hone and refine your voice.”—JS“When you get to the point where it's almost like the opposite of imposter syndrome, you trust that you have something to say.”—RM

Why breaking the rules in a surprising way is so important.Reaping the benefits of surprise—and how to figure out which rules are made for breaking.Balancing your strengths and available time with the highest impact moves.How to think about your rule breaking so you’re not copying someone else, but building your unique brand.Quotables“Some of my favorite strategies really do have a surprising piece to them, which is that I break a rule.”—JS“‘I would never bother my audience with daily emails’—if you’re ‘bothering’ them, why send it at all?”—RM“If you're known by name it's because you probably broke new ground, you broke some rules, some style practices and came up with something new and different that connected with people.”—JS“One of the things that makes me crazy is automated content based on SEO. They look like they're written by robots.”—RM“If you need an extra five hours a week, delete all social media from your life.”—JS“There's no reason to feel like, oh, you must have music on your podcast. As we've proven.”—RM“The reason I decided against that (using email salutations) was because I don't send emails like that to my brothers. And that was the feeling I wanted people to have when they got an email from me.”—JS“You can get sucked into social media, commenting about things that aren’t building your brand.”—RM

Why you need to answer this question: how much profit is enough for you?How to work your way up the difficulty scale to find clients with bigger, more expensive problems so that you can work less.The myth behind doing hard work—and how to work less without guilt.Making an impact with your ideal audience that leaves a memorable footprint (and builds a sustainable business).LINKSRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | TwitterQuotables“Assuming you're comfortable with some profit, the question is how much?”—JS“What's that expensive problem that's inside your big idea, your revolution, that you can solve?”—RM“You can find people who are currently in a situation where they would write a big fat check to someone like you.”—JS“You're gradually working your way up the difficulty scale to find clients with bigger problems or more expensive problems so that you can work less.”—RM“If you only feel okay doing really hard work, then what does that look like in your future? You're dooming yourself to a life of toil.”—JS“The key is delivering huge value. You have to keep asking: are you moving the needle on your revolution by doing the work you're doing?”—RM“People do stuff all the time that is not in their best interest financially, for other reasons and one of them would be purpose.”—JS“It's not just about the money—it's about impact. It's about your footprint.”—RM

Why raising your price(s) doesn’t always bring you better clients—and how to keep pushing the envelope to find the right balance.How to raise—or lower—your prices without feeling manipulative or doing a bait and switch with your audience.The value of being vulnerable and asking for input (with the side benefit of getting you deeply wired into your audience).Joining high-end masterminds (or building your own) to solicit peer feedback and ideas. Getting in the regular habit of experimenting to grow your audience and your business faster.Quotables“We make an assumption that the higher price points we have, the better clients we're going to get and that’s not always true.”—RM “If you can't bring yourself to lower your prices back down (when a higher price isn’t working), cut the offer.”—JS“It's dangerous when we assume that the blocks we have in our own head are in the minds of our clients.”—RM“That's why the metaphor is a (product/service) ladder. Cause they can climb up it as you give them success on the lower rungs.”—JS“The only way to know that you’re wired into your audience is to ask them, because otherwise we put our own assumptions on our audience and we could be a hundred percent wrong.”—RM“One of the coolest things about running your own business and thinking of it like a business is that you can do this (experimenting) stuff.”—JS“Consider a mastermind that has other people who've experienced your kind of growth—getting peer comments is hugely helpful.”—RMLinksPickfu.com

Why the more you invest—time, money and processes—in any system the more it starts to limit your thinking.The value of choosing your apps/vendors wisely and then going all in for the future vs. frequent platform switching.Protecting yourself (and your business) if one of your systems goes bad.How to think about changing and communicating systems when you have clients and buyers using them regularly.LINKSRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | TwitterQuotables“The more code I build up, the more I've invested in any particular system, the more it limits my thinking.”—JS“When my VA of 10 years left…I started to relook at and rethink every single function. Had she not left, I would not have done that.”—RM“I am super choosy about which platforms I'm going to go all in on on them. But man, is it frustrating when something changes out from underneath you.”—JS“The thing that makes some of these apps so wonderful is how comprehensive they are. You just have to ensure that you're protected if something really bad happens.”—RM“When I pick a platform, I just suck it up. And I'm like, okay, the thing's going to evolve and I'm just going to deal with it as it evolves. But also it means that I really learn how to use it…so that I'm really getting my money out of it.”—JS“You can't over-communicate in those situations (where your clients experience your systems changes).”—RM“If we're talking about a gravitational pull of a system and you've got people in the system, there's no silver bullet to making changes.”—JS“If you've got five people in a group and you change your systems, it's probably not a big deal. If you have 500, it is a big deal. All the more reason to pick the systems you want to invest in at the very beginning.”—RM

The difference between objectives, strategy and tactics—and why the possibility of failure is essential when designing a workable strategy.How to give your tactics the optimal amount of time to assess whether they are working—or not.Making the decision on how you want to impact your ideal audience—and baking it into your plans.How to think about growth so that you’re building a business that plays to your genius zone. Quotables“The strategy should change the most slowly. Your strategy should…have some grit and sticktuitiveness about it, but the tactics are disposable.”—JS“Once you position yourself (then you know what revolution you're going to be leading, who's your ideal client and buyer), then you can start creating a strategy to develop the products and services to monetize what you're trying to do.”—RM“Strategy is a concise high-level approach to achieving the objective by pitting strengths against weaknesses, usually in a surprising way.”—JS“Sometimes we give up on tactics too soon. If we agree that strategy is a non-trivial amount of time, then when it comes to tactics, you have to give it enough time…to prove whether it works or not.”—RM “You are making a bet that this approach is going to work and if you're wrong, then you know it's not going to work.”—JS“Most of us feel actualized when we're helping other people. It's not really about, oh, I want to go to the spa every day…it's about how can I help the people I care most about?”—RM“Whatever the tactic is, you need to give it a reasonable amount of time for how long it's going to take for the tomatoes to start growing.”—JS“By designing the business so that it fits you, you can get to whatever income level it is that you decide you want to go for.”—RMAccidental Creative Episode with Michael Bungay Stanier 

What insights your current behaviors, systems and habits can give you into creating more time.The value of time boxing—limiting the period (and the amount of head space) you’ll devote to a particular thing.Using habit stacking to create efficient ways to complete “must do” tasks.How to use consistent habit tracking—aka streaks—to motivate you to stay on course.When to buy back time—and overcoming your mental blocks that keep you from doing it.Quotables“Checklists or SOPs lift a weight off of you. It's this cognitive weight where…if you just do it in an order—the stuff that's going to happen every day—it gives you more freedom.”—JS“It’s like Steve jobs wearing his black turtleneck and jeans every day. He didn't want to dedicate brain space to something that didn't matter.”—RM“Time boxing helps quite a bit with the good enough slash perfectionism thing. Like the more you work on it, the better it will feel like it's getting therefore it becomes infinite.”—JS“A little trick that I found that works really well—if morning is a good time for you to do detailed work—push your lunch as late as you can.”—RM“I'm all about streaks. It's in my DNA to not want to break a streak.”—JS“We can buy back time by hiring people to do things that we believe must be done. And it's not just about the business. It might be that you hire somebody to mow your lawn or buy your groceries.”—RM“One thing is just to get rid of the things you don't need to do.”—JS“There are people who will think nothing of spending a hundred thousand dollars in their business, but…can't have somebody mow their lawn. ‘I can't spend $10, but I can spend a hundred thousand.’ Sometimes the $10 will give you more value.”—RMRESOURCESRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | Twitter

How live events will change (think thoughtful curation vs. large scale impersonal gatherings).The wider presence and impact of women and people of color in the authority space.The trend of personality—how far can authorities go to express their views?How experts and authorities will differentiate their products and services—and more.Quotables“We would have these big live events…with a lot of wasted time, wasted energy and lost opportunities to connect with people. The trend will be that because we will have fewer live events, they matter more.”—RM“I could imagine an increase in these sorts of small, highly-focused off the grid fishing village retreats.”—JS“I believe that more of the new businesses that are growing in the authority space will not only be run by women, but people of color.”—RM“I think it's so much more fun to learn from people who aren't afraid to like make predictions that might not come true.”—JS“It's really about standing up for your values, your vision for where the world goes. You've got a code…a set of beliefs that tie into how you serve clients.”—RM“I think going around and being in people's ear buds on a regular basis creates this asymmetric intimacy.”—JS“We might have products and services at both ends (high touch/high price vs. low touch/low price), but we're not going to have much in the middle.”—RM“The low touch end of the spectrum is all about productizing and packaging up your expertise…it's just so much easier to sell. It's easier to attract leads. It's easier to close deals.”—JS

Why a focus on outcomes naturally changes your sales conversations and how you think about delivery.How becoming the client yourself helps crystallize the importance of outcomes vs. inputs.Changing your mental model away from valuing time spent to the outcomes your clients are seeking.Becoming the Mercedes option where your clients happily pay big premiums for your reliably transformative outcomes.How using an outcomes focus in the sales process also weeds out undesirable clients.LINKSRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | TwitterQuotables“You change the way that you talk to the client, so that you're finding out more about what is the transformation they want instead of how much work is this going to be for me to execute.”—JS“They (the billers of time) just have to invert their thinking. And it's funny because once you really see it from the other side, it's hard to unsee it.”—RM“I fundamentally believe deep down that the majority of software projects go 2x over the initial estimate because nobody talks at the beginning about what the success metric is.”—JS“It's just all in what you want, what you value and what the person is going to deliver (when you’re hiring a consultant).”—RM“You found someone who you considered to be a Mercedes option—like a premium luxury purchase—and you just believed that it would work and it did work and it didn't need to take a lot of time. In fact, the less time it takes the better.”—JS“There are some clients who really don't want to be challenged. They don't want to have those tough questions asked and those are not good clients.”—RM“It's like finding the mission for the project and then it's all about everybody's on the same mission—you've got something to align everybody around.”—JS“Going from time spent to outcomes is messing with somebody's mental model—it's really hard to imagine that someone will value the outcome only and not care about the inputs.”—RMRESOURCESRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website  | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | Twitter

Using this as a path out of hourly billing and/or simplifying your sales and marketing while juicing your revenue.Why offering productized services forces you to get really tight on your delivery, messaging and outcomes.How you can use a productized service offering to test drive a more laser-focused positioning for your entire business.We share a host of real life examples you can check out to see how it’s done.Quotables“Productized services are like a path out of hourly billing for people who are used to delivering services by the hour.”—JS“We need to not underestimate the power of making your marketing and selling simpler.”—RM“If you're scared of positioning your overall business in a laser-focused way, you could just have the one (productized service) offering.”—JS“Do not underestimate the power of using emotion to identify that final outcome to the client from your productized service.”—RM“II you're embarrassed by your website, how do you think that might be trickling into your behavior and your actions?”—JS“When you start experimenting with productized services, you might find that it gets you into a higher level problem than you'd been solving.”—RMLinkshttps://jonathanstark.com/examples-of-productized-serviceshttps://www.weekofthewebsite.com/https://worstofalldesign.com/how-it-workshttps://www.eleanormayrhofer.com/ https://sarahmoon.net/ https://www.emilyomier.com/ https://www.aprildunford.com/

The role of your mindset in breaking through set points and powering past income plateaus.Deciding when it’s time to change your revenue model to provide your business with greater leverage—and larger earnings potential.How to think about and reframe limiting beliefs that keep you from making big leaps in your business.When your past experiences are powering decisions today that don’t serve you or your business growth (and how to re-wire them).LINKSRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | TwitterQuotables“There's a certain point where you've found all the leverage you're going to find with this model and you need to find a bigger lever.”—JS“I'd like to be a best-selling author. But guess what? If I don't write a book, it's not going to happen.”—RM“One of the things that can be the moment of a huge breakthrough for people is the first time they say no to a client.”—JS“Maybe there's a voice in your head that says you don't deserve any better than this. That this is the best you get.”—RM“Lightning round of three limiting beliefs: I can never call myself an expert if I’m not the world’s greatest; Oh, these are all great ideas, but they won't work; I can't stop coding because then I wouldn't be able to consult.”—JS“There are all these different experiences that impact how we think about money and therefore what we allow ourselves to achieve in our business.”—RM“You can go back and find out what your particular contribution was worth to the client and then try and extrapolate into the future. So when you talk to someone who's similar, you can get better at guesstimating what your contribution might be worth to this kind of a client.”—
JS“Once you're past the bootstrap stage and your business is truly launched, then there are certain things that are going to move you faster. You have to believe your business is worth investing in them.”—RM 

The two main reasons to write a book for your expertise or authority business.The pros and cons of self-publishing vs. seeking out a traditional publisher.Positioning and pricing your self-published book—and whether to sell it on your website and/or amazon.How to find and vet the right editor(s) for your situation.The role of e-books vs. physical books and why you probably want both.Quotables“The two main reasons to write a book for business: there's the 300 page business card and there's the revenue stream… it really helps going into it to know which one you're writing.”—JS“You might make different strategic and tactical decisions depending on whether you want direct or indirect revenue from your book
.”—RM“If you want to reach a broader audience, then it does make sense to go through a more traditional publishing channel or at least something closer to that.”—JS“The irony (with traditional publishers) is when you want them, when you need them, they usually don't want you—because they want you to have enough name recognition that you're helping to drive the sales of the book.”—RM“When I published Hourly Billing Is Nuts, since it was so much about pricing, I was like, I want to price this right. And I don't want it to be next to a whole bunch of direct competitors that are cheaper. It'd be like putting myself on Upwork.”—JS “I wanted really good editors because all of my (client) book experiences up to now have been with really top-notch people at big publishing houses and I wanted somebody as good as that for my book.”—RM“I think everybody should write a book—the experience is fabulous. It's so good to have to think that hard about something and have a project that's that big.”—JS“How hard is it to create a physical book on Amazon? It is so freaking easy if you're already doing the e-book on amazon.”—RMRELATED LINKSTim Grahl's interview with Dan PinkThe Authority Code by Rochelle MoultonBlurbReedsy

How “selling” your work completely changes once you’ve positioned yourself and monetized your expertise.Building your business in “white space” and a new way to think about your big idea (hint: we’re talking revolution).Why your genius zone is a pivotal element of your authority positioning.Rethinking your business and revenue model to more closely match your positioning (and your genius zone).Getting comfortable with publishing—testing your point of view—until you’re ready to start playing on other people’s platforms.Quotables“If you like this show, you're going to love the book.”—JS“What thinking about your big idea as a revolution does for you is it allows you to think bigger than you would otherwise—as in who am I to think this big?”—RM“I just see it as we're fellow travelers, we're on the same mission. We're in the same revolution and I don't care who leads it, as long as someone's doing it.”—JS“It's so important that you discover your genius zone. We started our own businesses—we took a lot of risk. Why shouldn't we be doing what we really love to do?”—RM“Once you flip your mindset from I do rails or I do price consulting to I know how  to build rails apps—then you can start disconnecting your expertise from your labor.”—JS“You're going to start with an email list, but then the question becomes, what should you do first in terms of publishing? I like writing and podcasting because they feed each other and they've got long tails.”—RM“Sales conversations are always fun, ‘cause they’re very consultative—it’s like I’m getting to know them.”—JS“Selling authority is three things: it's publishing, it’s developing your authority circle and it's having sales conversations. It's selling without selling.” –RMLinks: The Authority Code  Rochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | Twitter

Why profit is the most important measure of how your business is doing—even when profits are not your purpose.The difference between relying on vanity metrics and your bottom line to show you how you’re doing.Measuring impact vs. measuring revenue and what you need to build so they grow in tandem.How to avoid short-term thinking while still keeping your eye on your profit line.The value of reliability in your profit generation—and what that buys you in your business and your ability to make an impact.Quotables“You can’t buy Cheerios with likes on Twitter.”—JS“My concern sometimes with these giant lists is that they don't have this commonality in the audience that is going to help you grow your business.”—RM“You can measure impact. And that's a great thing to measure, but you can't eat it for dinner.”—JS“Once you run the long-term profit numbers, then you can make a wise-for-you investment decision. This is a good idea, a bad idea, or I'm not sure. Maybe I need to test it more.”—RM“I always notice when businesses basically tank because some cost cutter becomes the CEO—like the COO or the CFO becomes the CEO—and they stop investing in innovation.”—JS“You can't cut your way to innovation. You can't cut your way to being the industry leader. It just doesn't work that way.”—RM“If you're going to call yourself a business, then you need to have profits. Even though profits aren't your purpose, they still need to be there.”—JS“Until there's some kind of reliability built into your revenue model, your business is really hard to sustain.”—RM

A new way to think about big projects based on how you work best—and the value of absolute clarity with your plan.What happens when you fall into flow on a big project that needs room to breathe.The unintended consequences of changing your environment.How to find the system(s) that will work for you—and why you don’t need to worry if they look entirely different than what works for someone else.Adopting the mindset of a creator—and aligning it with your daily habits.LINKSRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | TwitterQuotables“It's as if you're going into battle, but you're going to battle against yourself.”—RM“I felt like I was on this path that I had wanted to be on for so long and I was finally doing it. So it was its own energy source.”—RM“I left this environment where I had lots of uninterrupted time. Switched to an environment where I'm interrupted all the time and didn't recognize or take into consideration the effect that would have on things that I already had in motion.”—JS“I don't want to stop. I want to just keep it, once you get into the zone and get over that resistance, fear, and you're in the zone, it's like a drug.”—JS“Once you have the boundary, you can all work with and around the boundary. But if it's not set, we're not going to work around it.”—RM“The thing that does motivate me is streaks and being able to tick off a check box next to the thing I was supposed to do today.”—JS “We all deserve to be able to carve out a space to produce this kind of work. It goes with the authority space.”—RM“It's a big undertaking and it's not something that you can just imagine is going to work itself out.”—JS 

What’s an Authority Circle and why you need one.The role of your rat pack, apostles and tribal leaders and how to enlist them in your cause.Earning apostles for your work and connecting with influential tribal leaders.How selling your authority becomes more focused and simple once you clearly identify your circle. How to think about your Authority Circle and enlist them in spreading your vision, even if you’ve always thought of them as competitors.Quotables“It's a wild process, writing a book. It's a marathon for sure.”—JS“The big problem that an authority circle solves is you have somebody else working on your behalf all the time.”—RM“A good friend will bail you out of jail. A great friend will be in jail with you.”—JS“Apostles are the people who are spreading the word on your vision, the revolution you're seeing for the world, because they believe.”—RM“The thing with the apostles that is different than super fans is apostles will occasionally challenge you in a good, polite, constructive way.”—JS“You're looking for a way to take what you know, and apply it to the tribal leader’s specific audience.”—RM“If you're really thinking about making a big cultural change, you better have these apostles and tribal leaders who - at least partially - agree with the mission.”—JS“When you have your authority circle, what you're doing in a very small but important way is that you're connecting; you’re building connective tissue with all these different people and they're going to help you.”—RM

How to set expectations and boundaries in the initial sales meeting (and why that’s critical to the progression of your project).Why the client isn’t always right or always wrong—and how to adopt a mindset that allows you to keep the outcomes front and center.Finding socially acceptable ways to push back when the client(s) starts leading down a path that doesn’t serve the outcome.Getting to the point where you believe you don’t need this client, this project—and why having a safety net is crucial.Why sales interviews are auditions for the client where you get to be the casting director.LINKSRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | TwitterQuotables“You've got two different kinds of expertise that are coming together in this sales interview to see if there's a good fit between where you want to go.”—JS“You're teaching them (in the sales meeting) how to think strategically about your area of expertise and how it applies to their business.”—RM“You want to open their eyes to the fact that there's a reason they're calling an expert and it could be that they made a fundamentally bad decision way up front.”—JS“Our job is to hold the vision for the project…When you do that, it gets a lot easier to deal with things that are really more of a personality conflict, or a power play.”—RM“It's about finding socially acceptable ways to say no—to push back. And it's all in their best interest…it's all about the success of the project.”—JS“You have to get to that point where you say okay, if this is not the right fit client, I'm not going to do this.”—RM“These sales interviews—you could think of them as an audition for the client. That's how I look at them, like an audition for the client, which frames it with me in the judge seat.”—JS“Everybody needs a safety net. I promise you the second you truly get to that headspace, your meetings start to change and you get better.”—RM

The definition of authority and the challenges in building it.How to think about and price different products and services based on how they contribute to your overall business model.The challenges of bringing new ideas to market and developing sustainable habits to keep growing your business.The role of trust in building authority (and your business).Why clients value outcomes above all else.Quotables“The McKinsey trap is you're getting paid X number of dollars at McKinsey, and you realize they're marking you up for X. So you quit McKinsey and go out on your own and you can't even get paid a quarter.”—Seth Godin“I don't worry so much about the revenue from the books. What I look at is how it supports the other things that I do. I'm being paid to do it (webinars) because I'm an expert in this field. And so I have an entire business model that is set on giving away stuff for free and making good money doing it”—Jill Konrath“I only want to release things that seem like they can gain traction quickly without putting a ton of work or doing like paid acquisition for them.”—Paul Jarvis“We do not rise to the level of our goals. 
We fall to the level of our systems.”—James Clear“You should see how picky I am about taking on a client. It's crazy…I was just doing the generic thing that all clients look like good clients. But now I do this really specialized thing. And I only take you on if you fit my target perfectly.”—April Dunford“The I, the last factor in the numerator (of the trust equation) stands for intimacy, which is an interesting and unusual word in the business context, but it goes to…do I feel safe and secure sharing things with you?”—Charles Green“You have to bring rigor to it (your passion business). You have to bring discipline. You have to work really hard. Honestly, a lot of it can be less easy because when you're doing something you really care about, it's going to be maybe even harder than doing a job that someone else told you to do.”—Adam Davidson“Having a small child, I said, I cannot take any more unpaid work. I have no more time left in my calendar. So I put a call out for sponsors (of my podcast). I asked, four people to sponsor the show, all four said, yes. And that's the moment when I looked at my husband and I said, so people are paying me money to do a thing.”—Sarah Peck“It really is the outcomes that people want. That's the way it is with all transformations. Inputs don't matter—only outcomes.”—Joe Pine

When outsourcing is freeing vs. when it simply adds more friction to your life.How to tell the difference between good friction and bad friction (hint: it’s not the same for everyone).Why it makes perfect sense to outsource critical functions that are not core to your business—think taxes, legal, payroll.The surprising benefits from documenting what you do and how you do it.The human side of heavy outsourcing—and how to decide if it’s for you. Quotables“I don't really care about search. I care about word of mouth. So if people aren't searching for my name, I'm doing something wrong.”—JS“After that first week (without my VA) I literally wanted to gouge my eyes out.”—RM“When it's literally done, it's different than knowing it's going to get done.”—JS“I'd like to not do it (the outsourced task), but I love the feeling that it's done and I don't have to worry anymore.”—RM“It would be silly to do your own books or legal…things that are just not core to your business.”—JS“I want to outsource the things that bring me comfort or bring me to a different level.”—RM“I can't stress enough how important it is to have the steps of any of your processes written down.”—JS“Having that checklist means not having to dedicate a space of your brain to anything routine.”—RM

The questions to ask yourself if you want to start or stop providing a particular service to a particular client.Breaking up with your client: when to do it, how to do it and what to watch out for.Why you always want to build a time constraint when transitioning clients—and how to think about the transition process.When retainer scope creep is your fault—think guilt around doing less for a bigger retainer—and what to do about it.Why the consultant’s job is to hold the vision for the project (and who is always THE client).Quotables“Here's the thing, it's your business. If you want to stop doing tactical work, you do more strategic work.”—JS“Breakups don't have to be ugly, but the other thing is that sometimes what we think might lead to a breakup doesn't at all.”—RM“Once you start doing that (extra pair of hands work), then it's a slippery slope. All of a sudden it's like the architect is cleaning the bathrooms.”—JS“The client asks because they don't think about our business model. They assume if they ask us for something that doesn't make sense, we'll say no
.”—RM“The perfect time to say no…is the first time, like when the first ask happens or when you first think you're going to do it of your own volition. The second best time to do it is right now.”—JS“It's really important to be clear about your timeline so that your clients understand that there's a limited timeframe and if they don't move, they're not going to get support.”—RM“But if you have one foot out the door, it totally changes the framing (of your message). And then they're like, wait, maybe there's something we can work out.”—JS“Holding the vision for the project, that's our job. And if I want to get dramatic, I would say it's a sacred obligation.”—RM  

How to move beyond magical thinking and get very specific about your dream clients and buyers.Why crystal clear positioning makes everything—including attracting your ideal clients—flow more easily.Improving your odds of successful matchmaking—allowing influential others to hook you up with “your people”. The relationship between taking calculated risks and achieving oversized outcomes (think drumming with the Foo Fighters).Matching your dream up to your business and revenue model—and why that’s so critical.Quotables“If you could just wave a magic wand and be working with your top 20 dream clients, what names would be on that list?”—JS“In most situations, success is hard work plus opportunity or as someone famously said, ‘The harder I work, the luckier I get.’”—RM“You can increase your luck surface area, meaning you can do things, you can do the work, put in the effort to make it much more likely that you're going to attract the right kind of opportunities.”—JS“We want to be a thoughtful matchmaker—it’s what we hope to receive from the people matchmaking us.”—RM“Books will have this tendency to give you a defacto positioning.”—JS“When we first start businesses, we're not always that clear about where we’re going—it’s like binoculars that you keep focusing.”—RM   
“There's this outbound thing where you can take control of fate and say, okay, that's my dream. Tesla marketing. That's all I care about. And you put all of your resources into that for a period of time.”—JS“We want to see you succeed when you are the underdog…I want to see you strap on the cape and fly off into the air.”—RM

How the newsletter started and why it was a well-kept secret for years.Tying the newsletter to the core business without making it salesy or deadly dull—and positioning it differently than anyone else in the space.How he sets the flow of the newsletter—and his fear that eventually he’ll run out of stories (sound familiar?).His #1 rule before releasing any “What We’re Seeing” emails.Why typical business assumptions about corporate titans are wrong—and how to engage them.Quotables“I wanted it to be the kind of thing they would want to read while drinking their coffee in the morning or laying next to their spouse in bed, on their phone. That's the vibe I was going for.”—JD“I was quite apprehensive initially about even doing something weekly. Cause I was like I once you're on the ride, it’s hard to get off.”—JD“It's gotten harder because I've used up most of my good stories by now, like funny stories I have from my dad or my college or whatever and like all my best material, I worry sometimes that I've used it up.”—JD“An insight is significantly more valuable the more relatable you can make it.”—JD“When you can make the insight…it doesn't just allow us to connect with that person as a reader, but it allows them to actually use that insight to drive a decision that they have to make.”—JD“I do think there are the people who read that and they see I'm not exactly sure what this company does, but I want to do business with people like this.”—JD“My Saturday email gets to be a little bit of a sacred place where that (sales) stuff doesn't happen.”—JD“I can tell you without ever naming any names, the most senior people and powerful people on that list are the ones who are most likely to answer those frivolous poll questions at the end of the newsletter.”—JDLinksCivic Science Twitter

What it takes to put your first product out for the world to see (even if you’re not painting zombies on skateboards).The fears you may experience the first time you go public and how to push through them.Why publishing your price(s) attracts the right buyers and repels the bad-fits.Worried about leaving money on the table by quoting a flat price? How to think about that whole transaction differently.Why your prices for products and productized services are all experimental and deserve to change regularly.Quotables“I was aware of a sales guy who would routinely send out proposals with an extra zero. And if the client gasps, he's ‘oh, it's a typo. Okay. Sorry. Sorry. It's $60,000, not $600,000.’”—JS“The buyer's time is valuable too. Who's going to want to sit through three conversations with three unknowns to figure out what they're going to do?”—RM“Just put a price on your website and you'll automatically attract the right kind of people for you. It would save everyone time. You wouldn't have to negotiate.”—JS“That first time that you actually put a price on your website…all sorts of things come up in your head, including imposter syndrome.”—RM“There's this fear of leaving money on the table, but guess what? If somebody jumps at it, then you just raise the price for the next person.”—JS“If you don't ever try raising your prices, you won't know the upper limits of what you can charge.”—RM“That indifference to whether or not the client buys—generally that comes from being in demand.”—JS“There's just something about putting a price on your website—you’re making a statement, oh, this is not a cheap WordPress guy I can hire for a thousand dollars…That’s level setting.”—RMLinksCarl Richards on Ditching HourlyAsk us a question

How most freelancers and independent consultants monetize their expertise in their first year or two—and the signs when your revenue model might need an overhaul.The link between your positioning and monetizing your business—and why you want to be open to new ways of packaging your expertise.A “typical” consulting/speaking/book revenue model and how it can become a trap (and some ideas to avoid it altogether or get out while you can).What to do when your revenue model isn’t working.Quotables“It's very common for people to just go out on their own and do their job, but for clients instead of a boss, and the obvious business model is to just rent your hands out by the hour. And that's fine. That'll get you going.”—JS“And then at some point (after you’ve positioned yourself) you come smack dab up to your business and revenue model and you say, oh, these don't fit anymore.”—RM“The competition is increasing and you start to realize that you need to, you might not call it positioning, but you start to realize that you need to appear different in a meaningful way.”—JS“The real money is coming from the other two revenue streams (consulting and speaking), so he is on what I would call a gilded hamster wheel.”—RM“The typical business model for a consultant is write books, speak at conferences and make your money on consulting…He couldn't sell that business—he is the business.”—JS“This idea that you're stuck with this business and revenue model that you created for something you no longer do is insanity.”—RM“I love posting prices on your website because it puts you into a slot in the prospect's mind. So when new clients come along, they already have the expectation, at least in a ballpark way, of what it would mean to work together.”—JS“Of course, there are things you're going to do for free. But when you're working in your genius zone, delivering to your ideal audience, most of those should be paid.”—RMLINKSInequity aversion

You’re spending considerable time thinking, writing, speaking, publishing and socializing your point of view.You discover the forms of publishing that fit with your talents and audience and produce regularly, no matter what.You’re building a niche that not only allows you to charge more for your specialty, but gives you the ideal audience to continually feed your curiosity and work from your genius zone.You’re positioning your business and expertise in white space—a target market that you don’t share with anyone else.You’re building a business model with seductive levels of flexibility: what and how you charge; how much and how often you work; and a suite of leveraged services and products that optimize how you spend your time.Quotables“If you are renting your hands out by the hour to do tasks for your clients, it can be difficult to carve out time (to build authority). That feels un-billable, it feels like you're losing money.”—JS“Authorities have a point of view: what is your belief system about how your expertise impacts your world?”—RM“Freelancers are basically selling their hands where authorities are selling their brains. It's all about the intellectual property."—JS“Obviously you can make a lot of money specializing, but in addition to that, you really can go where your curiosity takes you.”—RM“Since I've got a daily deadline to publish something…for a bunch of people who are waiting for it, my brain will gravitate to what I should consider for that vs. thinking about say what should I wear tomorrow.”—JS“If you're looking for ways to prime the (authority building) pump…read!”—RM“Writing is like the sort of cohesive, coherent long form. It’s the crucible almost that you go through to bake your idea into something.”—JS“A lot of us need to socialize things with other people to really get at all the things in the dusty corners of our brains.”—RM

Situations where designing an actual exit plan makes sense and how to think about it.The mindset required to move from trading time for money to creating assets with value independent of your presence.Client exit strategies and why they worked for their situations.Creating a business where the value isn’t 100% tied to your name—and when/how to start the shift.

Channeling that sense of dissatisfaction to make big, small and/or pivotal change in your business.Deciding which aspects of your work/life are ready for change and how to keep moving forward.Dealing with status and identity challenges as you evaluate what next steps will work best for you.Leaning into small changes that can have an outsized impact on your happiness.How to let those clients and employees you’re leaving behind go with integrity.Quotables“I like to think optimistically that the whole thing was a wake-up call for people—who are now feeling the malaise as a desire to have more of a purpose or impact.”—JS“Our elbows are rubbing up against the sides of our cage. And people are saying, what else is there? What can be next?”—RM“Everything's in motion. So any rut that you're stuck in, you're going to have a lot of helpful momentum to pop you out of it.”—JS“Don't worry about the process. Worry about where it is you want to go to get really excited about your work again.”—RM“If you could wave a magic wand and put whatever you wanted in your calendar, what would be in your calendar?”—JS“Change begets change.  We do one small thing and then it energizes us, it gives us confidence to make another change.”—RM“Look at your product and service mix and ask: am I getting bored with these? Am I getting better at these? Are they aligned with my mission?”—JS“We like the changes that we initiate far more than those that somebody else puts on us.”—RM

Evergreen expertise and content vs. those with an expiration date.How to distinguish yourself with evergreen content—and why your voice and point of view are clear difference makers.Avoiding the purist view that we absolutely have to invent something that's never been thought of before—and what to do instead.Side-stepping the eventual conversion of your hot market knowledge into a commodity—or worse (our sympathy to Flash developers).The magic of moving up to a higher level topic that is relevant to your current audience—and how to do it.Quotables“Maybe you localize a topic about marketing or sales into the technology landscape that didn't exist five years ago. If you’re careful about how you straddle that divide, you could still create very evergreen, but up to date content that stands the test of time.”—JS“It's really easy to say let's go do evergreen content, but to distinguish yourself, you've got to really slice and dice it in such a way that you've got something new to say, or it’s new to a different audience.”—RM“I've probably read 200 books on sales and marketing. It's stuff that software developers would rather eat glass than read. So if I can bring that to them in a funny way, or a way that resonates with them, or using language that doesn't repel them, then that's super valuable.”—JS“We can't come from this purist view that we absolutely have to get something that's never been thought of before.”—RM“Some of these more evergreen topics are going to be like fundamental truths of human nature, human behavior.”—JS“It's a lot easier to get attention when you've got the newest sexiest whistle—everybody wants to go hear it.”—RM “When you’re being cutting edge, you're co-opting the hype that some product or technology has built up and you're just strapped to that horse.—JS“When your consulting is based on a new technology, over time more people are going to know what you know, so the price of your expertise goes down and eventually becomes commoditized.”—RM

Tackling the mindset that says you must be constantly busy or you’re not worthy of success.Busyness as a form of procrastination—and what to do instead.Why defining a clear goal and strategy (with pre-planned tactics) can help you side step unfocused busyness.The joys of creating leverage—and what to do with the time you’ve freed up.How intentional, goal-based action will naturally identify the most high impact moves to grow your business.Quotables“When you actually get productive instead of just busy, you're producing better output with less input.”—JS“There is busyness that is not productive in some way or creative, but that is really designed to take up space—it keeps you from facing decisions you need to make.”—RM“Strategy is what helps you understand the difference between an opportunity and a distraction.”—JS“Not checking or responding to email constantly really changed my life.”—RM“How do you get productive instead of busy?”—JS“Putting some limits on what you do in a day helps to improve productivity and outcomes.”—RM“If you find that you can't eliminate the busyness, you have to ask yourself: what's going on here? Am I hooked on it? Is it some kind of worldview? Is it my identity? Do I believe deep down that if I'm not toiling all at all times, then I'm a bad person?” —JS“If you recognize that maybe there's a little addiction going on with your busyness, before you start to shift gears, just stop and breathe for a moment and just ask: is this the best thing for me to be doing next?”—RM

How confidence plays out in growing your business—and the role of daring and initiative in your success.Why you need a handful of marketing processes built around your expertise and your market position—and a few examples of those that work. How to think about and design your selling systems with both fixed and fluid components. Ensuring your delivery processes support your selling and marketing and deliver your promised outcomes.Why your behind-the-scenes operations need processes too—including project management, invoicing and client/team communications.Quotables“It's not confidence that allows me to launch (something new). It's that if it doesn't work, I'll try something else.”—JS“Well-placed confidence says, listen, I've been through this before. I don't know if it's going to be successful, but I'm confident that I'm going to do my best to make this work.”—RM“What is the market telling me…is this thing I created not selling at this price? What am I learning from that? And how do you build a system around it?”—JS“It's hysterical how those checklists save us time, but they engineer confidence. Because you can focus on what's important vs. the miscellaneous stuff that has to get done.”—RM“If you have to learn the lesson every time…you're not engineering any confidence in your process.”—JS“When it comes to selling, you want to absolutely systematize every possible thing.”—RM“You’ve already burned the creative energy to come up with a really good way to say this—why reinvent the wheel?”—JS“Process is absolutely a critical part of being a believable, repeatable, successful consultant.”—RM

Understanding how bad things could go—what’s the worst that could happen and how are you protected?Pricing your work based on the amount of risk you decide to shoulder.Saying no to high risk, low return client requests.The role and value of defining work processes to manage your risk exposure.Using peers and sounding boards when you’re doing strategic, high-impact consulting.Quotables“What's the right thing to do when you're engaged in client projects, where there are risks and project failure can cost lots of money?”—JS“How bad can things go and what's your role in that? That's a strategic business operational question that we all have to ask ourselves.”—RM“If you…take these hidden risks and make them visible, you can price based on that.”—JS“Most of us who go into our own businesses, we don't like the word discipline…but there's a certain amount of discipline in running a business.”—RM“E+O insurance, that was my net. Like I could walk the high wire with confidence, knowing that if things went as bad as possible, I wouldn't be in the street.  My family wouldn't be in this.”—JS“If what you're doing is more of a strategic thing, you really want to have a sounding board or two that you can use when you uncover an unusual client situation.”—RM“Knowing that a second pair of eyes will be reviewing your work is a very interesting little kind of safety valve.”—JS“We had peers excited about the work that we were doing, trying to figure out how to make it great for the client.”—RM

How to structure—and think about—advisory retainers, including the role/importance of a guarantee.Operating as a fractional CXO without committing to hours.Designing extra pair of hands retainers that focus on outcomes—including productized services sold monthly.The landmines to avoid when structuring your retainers.The mindset shifts you’ll need to make as you move along the retainer continuumQuotables“In this context you're selling insurance…that's what an advisory retainer is.  It's not about showing up and coding.”—JS“When you're used to being paid for using your hands, being paid to sit on them instead feels really weird.”—RM“The people who designed my Subaru Outback are different from the people who built my Subaru Outback and are different from the people who change the oil.”—JS“You're not going to be able to deliver a home run to somebody who can't figure out what that looks like.”—RM“If you're earlier in your career…and you do want some kind of stability or predictability in your income you could sell productized services on an ongoing monthly basis.”—JS“There's no shame in doing the work and creating some kind of a retainer where you can get stability, you can get some continuity and you can build your credentials in the course of working for those organizations.”—RM“What are you guaranteeing with an advisory retainer? The thing that I would guarantee is the response time. What they're buying is good answers fast.”—JS“The whole idea behind advisory retainers is they're buying access—to your brain and to good answers fast.”—RM

The role of trust—in you, in the process and their ability to carry out your recommendations—in choosing their course of action.How differing perceptions of risk and the fear of change can drive organizational decisions.Getting behind surface reactions and digging more deeply into the “why” behind client decisions.The relationship between time, value and urgency as the client perceives them. How the perhaps invisible—but still deeply entrenched—internal politics of your client’s situation may play out.Quotables“Straight up fear of change—where there's a perceived risk—it feels scary. Or distasteful. People just don't like change.”—JS“Forget what you think is the right decision—just try to get to the bottom of what the client’s fear is about. By asking them some of those deeper questions, you may be able to uncover something that isn't on the surface.”—RM“Sometimes it’s that they do trust you and they're not afraid of change, but they recognize that it (your recommendation) could fail.”—JS“If the person who's making the decision doesn't reap any of the benefits, they're just not interested in putting their head on the chopping block.”—RM“Maybe the person who's making the decision is new and hasn't got the political capital to do it.”—JS“The whole theme of this is don't rely on your logic.  Because your logic doesn't matter. It's how the client looks at it—it’s their perception of the situation that is going to drive the decision.”—RM“Money is only part of the investment. There's also a time investment for any project.”—JS“This is not about being manipulative. It's just really digging in to their situation and trying to understand what their life is like inside this organization.”—RMGot a question for us?Do you have a question that you'd like us to answer on the show? We'd love to hear from you! Email a voice recording to Jonathan at asktboa@jonathanstark.com and we'll add it to the queue. 

Writing a proposal that offers up non-price options that make for easy negotiation wins.Positioning yourself and your work to minimize—if not downright eliminate—discount requests.Anchoring your fees in value instead of time so you can focus potential discounting discussions on outcomes vs. inputs.Offering guarantees or warranties—and why these are a lot less risky than you think.Working around the perils of dealing with procurement.Dealing with potential scope changes, both up-front and as your work unfolds.Quotables“The thing about getting into price negotiations with clients is that if you…concede the first time, then it's almost like their moral obligation to negotiate every single time after that.”—JS“When you make that decision that you're not going to negotiate on price, it actually makes everything else easier.”—RM“I put one thing in the proposal that's so preposterous that it's the thing that people always want to negotiate.”—JS“You're positioning yourself and your work in their minds.”—RM“If someone was going to refer me to someone else, the thing I want them to say is he's expensive, but it's worth it.”—JS“You're anchoring your fees in the outcome versus what a lot of people do—anchor their fees in time.”—RM“Offering a written guarantee on your services is like a five year, 50,000 mile guarantee on a car.”—JS“This is all about really creating the relationship you want with your clients…the minute we start to negotiate on price, it changes the dynamic of the relationship.”—RM

Why even as an authority, you don’t need to know everything.The “rules” of improv and how to develop your own framework.Handling Q+A after a talk (hint: positioning your talk strategically almost guarantees you won’t get stumped by a technical question).Running sales calls with a three-step process that allows you to let go of the formalities and focus on your client’s desired outcomes. How to get the most out of exploratory meetings with potential partners and influencers. Quotables“In a sales interview…or a sales meeting, you're on the spot. You don't get a do over. You just have to look at it as practice for the next time.”—JS“It is almost impossible to be stumped if you're positioning the talk with a strategic intent. People probably aren't going to be asking you technical questions—they're going to be asking you the strategic or even visionary questions.”—RM“If you're doing Q + A and somebody hits you with a stumper of a question, you could turn it back to the audience…and say, 'Ah, interesting question. Does anybody else have the same issue?'”—JS“When in a sales meeting, I want to be the instrument to get them where they want to go.”—RM“If you're looking for an improv framework, look no further than The Why Conversation, where I talk about the three different why questions for running a sales interview.”—JS“If the conversation is a little too tactical, asking that next level up question, or even two levels up question is going to help make it strategic. And it's also going to frame how they see you.”—RM“In the sales meeting, there's this back and forth. It's like a volley of  tennis—you've just got to keep hitting the ball back over the net.”—JS“You don’t want to be the guy on the white horse coming in with all of the answers on what their transformation should look like. The answer is in the client and it's our job to ferret it out.”—RM

How to get feedback on a new offering you’re considering. The art of asking for—and securing—permission to ask almost anything you’d like (this may be the step you’ve been missing if you’ve been striking out).Getting yourself booked as a podcast guest, even if you’re just starting.The role of trust in how you approach the answerer and position your question.The optimal way to solicit feedback in an on-line community—and the sure way to never get the answers you really need.Quotables“The first piece of how to ask a really good question is picking the person you're going to ask.”—JS“If you want an answer to a question (in email), ask the question right up front and ideally give the answerer enough information that they can help you.”—RM“If you do the question up front, I don't consider that to be blunt. I would put the question up front and then have whatever context you think is necessary, the minimum amount of viable context.”—JS“The headline…give that some attention. And then what's the question and how are you asking it? If you hook us, we're going to read the rest.”—RM“I think the wrong way (to pitch yourself as a podcast guest) is to just sort of tout your credentials and say let me know if you'd like to set up a call.”—JS“You wouldn't believe how many people have pitched themselves to my clients who have a no guest podcast—you’ve got to do your homework.”—RM“If this sounds like a lot of work (pitching yourself), it is. And guess what? That's why it's not spam.”—JS“The more specific you can be, the more helpful feedback you're going to get.”—RM 

What we mean by finding your voice and why it’s worth doing.Why you need a point of view to dig into your (authority) voice—and how to build yours.How constantly refining and testing your voice helps you grow your audience and your business.The role of authenticity—and finding the right balance of being the real you with performing at your best.How to know when your voice is clicking with your audience (or not).Quotables“Your voice…is the most authentic connection that you have with your audience, but it's not just about you. It's about your ideas and how you translate those to the audience in a powerful way.”—RM“If you're blending in, no one can see you, right? It's like having camouflage on.”—JS“There are things you're for and there are things you're against, and that's all part of your point of view and how that gets reflected and integrated into your voice.”—RM“Look at Gary V versus Seth Godin. They're both saying very similar things…but could they be more different?.”—JS“A lot of it comes down to your point of view…it's not about you. It's about your audience. It's about how what you do transforms your ideal audience.”—RM“So you'll have this idea, you’ll see this problem…but no one cares yet because you haven't found a way to communicate it with people in a way that lights them up.”—JS“We're talking about voice, but it's more than just the physical voice. It's how are you going to translate that into formats that your audience can hear and emotionally respond to?”—RM“The potential reason for the disconnect (when your audience isn’t responding to you) could be that you're screaming into the wrong microphone.”—JS

Building confidence in yourself and others about something you’ve never done before.Hedging your bets so you don’t spend tons of hours creating a course that launches to crickets.Getting your first customers–and glowing testimonials–for a new productized service.Price points to start with on a 10X Product Ladder.A “3 coupon” approach to accelerating an eBook launch.Validating new positioning statements when you're starting out or planning to pivot.Quotable Quotes“How do you get your first customers, your first clients, or even the feedback that you need to create the thing in the right way?”—JS“I mean, for me, it’s really simple. It’s reaching out to the people on my list that I think this might fit, because generally speaking, I’m not sitting with a blank sheet of paper, dreaming something up.”—RM“When I notice someone struggling with something, and then I notice somebody else struggling with the same thing, I’ll think, ‘Huh, I wonder if there’s something there?’”—JS“When you do a launch, your list will get bigger. That’s how it works.”—RM“When is comes to pricing, people are atrocious at pulling a number out of a hat.”—JS“What’s interesting is they found errors in your book, but they engaged with it. This is why we need to get over this idea of perfectionism because people engage for different reasons.”—RM“If you’re going to get $245 for this course, then you can reverse engineer how many videos you want to make.”—JS“If you think this is a numbers game, you will never launch.”—RM“I’m not looking for data to prove to me that it’s going to work. What I’m doing is looking for an opening.”—JS“What this process does is it gives you that confidence that you're not going to lose your shirt, that you know how to speak to your ideal client, and that if a bad one sneaks in there, you're going to be done really fast and they'll be out.”—RM“I don’t dream stuff up, like, ‘Boy, it sure would be cool if the universe had this in it now!’ It’s always from some struggle I observed.”—JSSharing is caring!If you enjoyed this episode, please consider sharing it with a few friends who might find it useful. Thanks!Can you help?Has TBOA helped you in your journey to authority? If so, please rate and review the show in iTunes. Doing so helps folks like you find the show, and it helps us book more big name guests like Seth Godin, Jill Konrath, Joe Pine, and more.

What to do when the three “why” questions aren’t working—and what to do instead.How to get strategic insights into the niche of people you want to serve (we had a lot of fun using the craft beer industry as a jumping off point).The best way to build high value, low time commitment product and service options when your time is limited.How to think about commissions for referring work to decide whether they make sense for you.Quotables“There’s a hundred ways I can build this—I don’t want to build it in some way that’s oblivious to your larger goals. A good client will sit back and say, ‘yeah, let’s do it’. A bad client will say ‘Why do you need to know this?’”—JS“You’re giving them a preview of what it will be like to work with you.”—RM“If you’re in a conversation (with a potential client) and you can’t get them out of order giver mode, it’s not gonna work.”—JS“Working inside a business feels like a very labor-intensive way to get smart about a market niche…and you’re still only learning from one example.”—RM“Sometimes it’s helpful to have no knowledge because you can come in with completely fresh eyes and break new ground and change paradigms.”—JS“Going into courses and information products is the easiest way (to high revenue) in the sense of setting it up and forgetting about it—but in order to do this you really need an audience to sell it to.”—RM“Even if you’re the most ethical person on earth, people know that financial incentives affect behaviors.”—JS“It’s really hard to trust somebody who’s gonna get some money out of your recommendations, especially when it’s a lot of money.”—RMGot a question for us?Do you have a question that you'd like us to answer on the show? We'd love to hear from you! Email a voice recording to Jonathan at asktboa@jonathanstark.com and we'll add it to the queue.  

Transitioning from execution to strategy, including setting up the right boundaries (hint: it’s a process).Recognizing the warning signs that you’re sliding down the slope in the value chain—from strategy back into execution.Adopting the mindset required to fully make the shift from execution to strategy.Setting client expectations and managing boundaries.Positioning yourself in your client’s mind as the strategist. Quotables“A lot of the struggle is: how much strategy do I do, how much execution do I do and where do I find that balance for my own sanity?”—RM“Strategy can be very lucrative but you have to build that up—so how do you still keep putting Cheerios in the bowl between now and then?”—JS“In order to really steer clear of execution, we have to put some big ‘ole boundaries in place.”—RM“If you’re new to doing strategy it can feel like you’re not adding enough value because there’s so much profit.”—JS“Working as the architect (the strategist) is a different way of working—it’s a different mindset.”—RM“To shift out of (execution) and just deliver a strategy or an architecture or a migration plan and just leave is a hard shift for people and that can suck them back into implementation.”—JS“There are people out there who are loving doing the execution and you want to know those people. They’re not your competition—in fact they might be the ones that help you get out of having to do more execution...”—RM“Your positioning gives you a litmus test…it tells you what you should say yes to and what you should say no to.”—JS

How to attach rewards to your truly essential (but exceedingly distasteful) tasks to make them more likely to get done.The role of knowing—and accepting—the consequences of delaying action. Keeping the integrity of your list and why that powers your self-esteem and confidence.The tricks we use to convince ourselves that procrastination is working for us—and how to reprogram them.Discovering your danger zone—those things you genuinely can’t tolerate doing—and designing work-arounds so you can enjoy your life.Quotables“If stuff keeps staying on the (to do) list, it creates an anti-gravitational pull…the feeling of a death spiral.”—JS“You want to keep the integrity of your list—if you’re not tending to it, all of a sudden nothing on the list is important.”—RM“Get the stuff you’re never going to do off the list.”—JS“The way we end relationships is a really good indicator of how we begin the next one.”—RM“There’s a tendency to pour all of your time into the things (on your list) that you’re good at.”—JS“Sometimes we just don’t have clarity—we put the thing on our list but we haven’t bought into the idea that this needs to get done.”—RM“I know what my danger zone areas are, so I just make sure they’re covered.”—JS“If you’re the kind of person that likes to have a lot of balls in the air (and you want an excuse to procrastinate), you throw another ball in the air.”—RM

How to use empathy and consultative driven sales to fast-track growing your authority footprint and your revenue.Learning what your people care most about—including how they talk about it, act and buy—so you can meet them where they are.Why sales is mostly listening vs. talking—and why introverts can be natural masters of selling.Developing a sales mindset that not only tightly serves your target market, but also reflects who you are and how you work best.Why the need for connection and human relationships remains unchanged—and how “selling” fills that need. Quotables“There’s no shortage of bad examples of selling.”—JS“The core question we ask ourselves is: how do I (sell) in a way that uses my time in the right ways and is still giving value to my audience?”—RM“The key word is empathy. You need to have empathy with your ideal buyer.”—JS“The “game” isn’t to sell this thing, the game is to get the person’s wants and/or needs met and to have a meeting of the minds about what that outcome is going to be.”—RM“There’s a type of person I relate to better than other types of people I relate to, so it’s way easier to produce desirable outcomes for people I have a natural affinity for.”—JS“What you’re trying to do when you’re selling is you’re trying to make a connection.”—RM“Having conversations, building empathy (with your ideal buyer) and helping them achieve their goals—to me, that’s selling.”—JS“We want someone who gets us, who understands us—whether it’s a product, a service or a productized service, we want something that really speaks to us.”—RM “If you don’t like the idea of sales you’re probably thinking of it as talking, but really, it’s mostly listening.”—JS LinksThe Secret of Selling AnythingNever Split The Difference

How to pinpoint the intersection of your talents and passions with a demonstrated market of people ready to buy.Identifying your superpower talent (and why it’s sometimes challenging to see it for yourself).Why your goal is to create white space in your market—and how to use your talents and passions to carve it out.Engaging your target market in unique ways that tie to your brand, your positioning.The power of research and why we don’t do it nearly often enough (and how to change that).Quotables“A lot of times our greatest talent comes so easily to us that we don’t even think of it as a talent.”—RM “You could do an exercise with sticky notes where you write down a bunch of things you’re good at—not just business things, but every thing—and a bunch of things you really love doing. You look for the overlaps.”—JS“We don’t hire cardboard cutouts—we hire real people and real people have talents and passions.”—RM“Since we’re no longer limited to the accidental geography we find ourselves in…there’s no reason for you to be limited by your immediate vicinity. Your market is global, almost certainly.”—JS“You have to research who’s in your space: what are they saying, what are they doing, what are they selling—because you want to carve out white space that no one else owns.”—RM“If you’re putting yourself out there, being an entrepreneur, starting your own business, why not start one that makes you jump out of bed?”—JS“Building authority requires confidence.”—RM“Go “painstorming” in the watering holes of the people you want to help. Find a place where they hang out on-line—find places where they vent…to give you a crash course into this market.”—JSLinksHow To Work A Room: The Ultimate Guide to Making Lasting Connections 

Expanding your knowledge through books, podcasts, programs and even coaching from those in your market-adjacent space (or completely outside it).The connection between moving and feeding your body with your mindset (and sometimes your spirit).What to do when your ideal routine gets whacked sideways—by COVID, a change in work schedule or your home life.Wiring your habits—including your physical space—to support your goals and minimize relying on discipline (hint, hint: reduce friction). Understanding the relationship between spirituality, being of service, contentment and confidence. Quotables“It’s pretty reliable that you can read a book that has been a business best seller for 40 years, 50 years and be like ‘Wow, that is really good.’”—JS“Sometimes we just have to find the right combination of messages to get to us—and it doesn’t come with the first things you read or the first thing you buy.”—RM“It’s almost like you need a surrogate brain to figure stuff out.”—JS“There’s something about that flow of energy where everything is firing on all cylinders—that once you experience it, it’s really hard to go back to not having it.”—RM“You add a little bit of friction in front of the bad habits and take away a little of the friction in front of the good habits—put the apples on the counter and the Oreos in the cabinets.”—JS“If you don’t put the temptation in front of you, you don’t need discipline.”—RM“No one is in charge of you anymore—so you have to be in charge of you.”—JS“If your spirit or your spiritual practice is working for you, you’re going to be more comfortable putting yourself out there and putting your ideas out there.”—RM

The signs it’s time to systematize components of your business—and which to tackle first.How to find the right balance between building automations and developing manual tools like checklists and reminders.Using any friction in your business processes as a signpost to ask yourself: Is this necessary and if so, what’s the best way to deal with it? The role of triggers—business and personal—in deciding what needs systematizing.How to delegate to external partners and still sleep at night (hint: think mutual documentation pact).Quotables“I don’t rush to program stuff just because I can. My experience when I do that…is that it creates an inertia for me to not want to change the system.”—JS“I tend to err on the side of I wanting to know what is being done by any system…I want to know what it’s doing, how it works and how it interacts with anything else.”—RM“I collapsed an hour of stressful scrambling into 10 minutes of successful execution.”—JS“We only have so much attention…to think and interact at our highest level. So take all this “stuff” that you really don’t need to worry about and put it in a checklist or procedural outline so you don’t have to waste your brain space on it.”—RM “Structure is freeing. It allows you to focus your brain on stuff your brain is good at and not burn your brain out on stuff that’s a waste of time.”—JS“There is power in writing down every procedure that you outsource.”—RM“You can’t go on vacation if you’re the only one who knows how to do everything.”—JS“The time to hire a VA is when you decide your time is more valuable than money.”—RM

The difference between “dumb” and smart risks.The two questions to ask yourself when evaluating any risk.The role of the lizard brain in how you react to risk and how to move beyond it.Why having a clear strategy allows you to quickly assess risk and separate real opportunity from distraction.How to recognize and deal with the emotions risk taking arouses in you.Quotables“If you’re not placing some bets that have a big pay-off, then you’re not taking risks or you’re taking dumb risks.”—JS“We ought to have a few sleepless nights or we’re not working hard enough on taking risks.”—RM“It’s very common for people to be scared to do something and they interpret that as the thing is risky, but... the impact is a mildly bruised ego and it’s even a private bruising.”—JS“Sometimes what we’re looking for (when evaluating risk) is an excuse not to do it.”—RM“You need to stand out from the crowd. You need to. And it feels risky.”—JS“We choose the vetting (of our partners) based on our perceived risk.”—RM“It’s important to know what failure and success look like.”—JS“If you’ve got a strategy it makes it easier to figure out who to say yes to.”—RM

How to think about your business as an experiment and failures as practice.The value of postmortems to understand—and rebound from—failure.How to put failure in service to your story, your audience and the change you want to make in the world. Reframing failures (after you’ve worked through the emotions around them) and the role of resilience.Why being willing to fail is part of the mindset of an authority.Quotables“My philosophy (on failure) for years has been that everything is practice for the next time.”—JS“When you have a big failure…you’ve got to go through that experience of feeling the pain, feeling the crap and then you come out the other side.”—RM“What’s the worst that could possibly happen—what’s really at risk?”—JS“Most of our failures are not nearly so public as they feel to us.”—RM“Have lots of little failures instead of betting the farm on one big thing.”—JS“It’s about getting comfortable that all those external things—your job, your bank account, what people think of you—if they all go away, you’ll still be OK.”—RM“If you have a catastrophic failure, you can’t come back and play again tomorrow—you’re more or less forced into a pivot.”—JS “You have to find the right support from the right people in the right places. We all know who NOT to go to.”—RM

The difference between sales and marketing—and why both are necessary to run a sustainable authority business.How aligning sales with your values allows you to sell in line with who you are (and avoid those slimy sales tactics we all hate).Why one part of successful consultative selling is reserving your right to say no—that this client, this work is not the right fit.When your prospective clients arrive with different mindsets about their presenting problem that have nothing to do with you.How successful consultative selling makes your ego disappear as you put yourself in service to the client’s vision of the future.Quotables“You don’t have a business if you don’t sell stuff.”—JS“Marketing is creating demand. Selling is closing the deal.”—RM“If you don’t like sales, then you’re gonna have a problem running your own business.”—JS“Are you reacting to what’s coming in or are you going out and killing what you eat?”—RM“Sales mode is not synonymous with trying to close the deal. We’re talking about a potential engagement here, but either one of us can walk away from it.”—JS“Know that they (people who enter your sales stream) come in with ideas and expectations that have nothing to do with you…along with what they think might be possible with what they’ve seen of you.”—RM“I’m the type of “shopkeeper” that is perfectly happy to send somebody to the shop across the street if I think they’ll find what they want over there.”—JS“In the best consultative selling, your ego goes away. Your client feels that you are there for them to succeed.”—RM

 Why providing services (vs. products) may be where you start your business, but not where you necessarily stay.The impact of turning services into products—leverage—on your business and revenue models.How to package your expertise in new ways so that the delivery is inexpensive—and morph your client/audience base to reflect the change.Dealing with the identity shift that happens as you morph your role away from 100% supplying services.Thinking about your business model when you’re starting “clean” with a brand new idea.Quotables“The fundamental proposition here is that services are really expensive to deliver…you’re forced as the seller to set your price high enough that it’s worth doing.”—JS“If you’re selling expensive services—maybe you have 3-5 clients in any given year. But to do something where you’re selling a $300 product or a $700 product, you’ve got to have a lot more people in your pipeline who can buy this, so it changes…who you reach out to and how you deliver.”—RM“You write your first book and…monthly or quarterly out of nowhere you get a check—it’s a completely different kind of money.”—JS“You might find you’re making trivial income from a book, but it’s powering non-trivial income from speaking—which makes you look at your revenue mix (how you’ll make money).”—RM“Package your expertise in a completely different way—it’s the same expertise—but you’re packaging it in such a way that the delivery is inexpensive.”—JS“As you as you do each “thing” you’re gonna learn who is your ideal audience for this thing. What do they have in common? What about this makes it really attractive to them?”—RM “Part of the benefit of doing these little experiments…is it gives you time for your identity to catch up with your brain.”—JS“Once you start to see leverage, it’s kind of hard to unsee it.”—RM

Why getting clear on the critical path your clients and buyers travel with you may be the single most important thing you do.Defining the singular purpose of your emails and automation.Not getting ahead of yourself with “fancy” automation and why keeping it simple will pay dividends.Making more sales through your email automation by meeting your buyers where they are and helping them solve their problems.Another way to think about your “cold” subscribers and when/how to let them go.Quotables“There are two trigger points in any purchase: one is the intent and the other is motivation.”—JR“The faster you can understand your audience base and who your customer is, the faster you can make a sale, the faster you can help them and the faster they become repeat customers.”—JR“Segmentation is understanding a group of people and who they are at the level where they’re all the same…and being able to tailor their experience according to that.”—JR“What’s your critical path? When somebody comes in, what do you want them to go to next, what do you want them to buy first, what do you want them to buy second, what do you want them to buy third…then figure out what those conversion points are.”—JR“That daily (or weekly) blast or broadcast or newsletter has a single purpose: and that’s to offshoot people into your next step…I always call it the “tell me more” campaign.”—JR“If you’re selling virtual workouts, don’t give recipes as your lead magnet.”—JR“It’s best to write all of these things (how you want the automation to flow) out in a document first and then apply them into the platform second.”—JRLinksNurtureKit Jason on Twitter 

 Why being the Pharmacist is a frequent first stop when you start a business (but needn’t be the last).When operating as the Nurse is the perfect fit—working on a standardish process with clients who want to understand what’s happening and participate in the outcomes.How combining high levels of creativity and innovation with very little client interaction makes for the unique marketing and branding challenges of the Brain Surgeon.Why operating as a Psychotherapist means balancing some Brain Surgeon wisdom with serious collaboration skills—and how to market to clients who want to be intimately involved in the problem solving process.How to decide which engagement style makes the most sense and whether switching your focus might be the right next move. Quotables“Compare the interaction you’ve had between a nurse and a pharmacist…the level of attention they bring to bear is noticeably different.”—JS“I don’t think there is any one profession that always falls into one of these buckets, it’s how the professional decides to position themselves and work.”—RMThe nurse will understand a whole bunch of lingo but hopefully they won’t deploy that on the patient and the patient can speak their normal sort of non-medical terms.”—JS“If you have the misfortune to need a pediatric neurosurgeon, you probably don’t care so much whether they talk to you in the way that you want—you probably care more that they’ve done the kind of surgery your child needs.”—RM“When you kind of just care about your craft—you’re consumed with your craft—then the positioning is to be recognized as the best in the world at this thing that somebody cares about but doesn’t want to do themselves.”—JS“Depending on where you fall (in this model), you’ll want to design everything else around that—your marketing, your branding, how you make money within your business model...”—RM“A brain surgeon is not going to send direct mail postcards and blanket a neighborhood or put flyers under your windshield wiper.”—JS“You want your voice—which is part of your brand and your marketing—to match your engagement model. You don’t want to sell someone on being a pharmacist and then oops—you’re acting like a brain surgeon.”—RMLinksThe Anatomy of a Consulting Firm Managing The Professional Service Firm True ProfessionalismThe Trusted Advisor

Getting hyper-clear on what you most value from each specific relationship.Considering the degree of collaboration you’re looking for (and how to avoid micro-managing).Choosing wisely when you have a high risk/high reward, bet the business situation.Ensuring the people on your team “get” your business and your vision while sharing your essential values. Quotables“The best way to see how nuts hourly billing is is to pay someone hourly for a little while.”—JS“Part of being the client is getting clear on how you want to work and how you’re going to measure your happiness.”—RM“The way to be the leader is to act like the leader…a leader would say no to way more customers than you’re taking on. A leader would be the most expensive—by 50% at least—that’s going to make you look like the leader.”—JS“When you are the client, you still have the responsibility to choose someone who’s going to work well with you. You’ve got to use your spidey sense.”—RM“The danger is when the risk is very high the person who is taking the risk can get very hands on at…the worst possible time.”—JS“It’s really important that you know that they (your providers) know what you want.”—RM“If you want someone to hit a home run for you, you need to define where the wall is so they can aim for it.” —JS“It’s relatively easy on the front end to decide if you could trust someone. You can look at their website, you can see how they talk, their testimonials…and you get that sense for how their values and their style connect with yours.”—RM 

Why getting to selling transformations is a process and the multiple ways to move yourself further along the curve.The elements of selling transformation—from positioning the outcomes you deliver, understanding your client’s definition of a home run and ensuring their buy-in to the process.Moving from being a master of your craft to fostering transformational outcomes in your ideal client base (including mustering up the courage to make the shift).Mapping what satisfies your clients to what satisfies you—and vice versa.Building transformations into your business model—how you work, what you deliver and how you get paid.Quotables“When you get to the phase where you’re focusing on  transformations, not coincidentally you’re also to the point where you can start value pricing for projects.”—JS“It’s really tough to get to transformations if the client is telling you what to do.”—RM“It’s a mindset shift…where all of a sudden you start to notice what’s happening in the other people involved and you aren’t just thinking ok, here’s my punch list of to-do’s for today.”—JS“We think ‘I’m gonna sell you on how smart I am’ but really what we’re selling is the transformation of the client—the outcome.”—RM“Saying ‘here are all the answers, see ya later, bye’ doesn’t work.”—JS“You start to say oh—so I did that, I did this great thing but that client put it on a shelf. But this client used it and then told me how great it was. What’s the difference between those two?”—RM “It’s more likely you’ll produce raving fans if you know what the outcome is that they’re looking for.”—JS“Helping a client think through all the strategic “stuff”—the picture of where they’re going and the why plus all the outcomes—is a gift you give the client. Even if they don’t hire you.”—RM

How to think about “good” marketing so that you naturally build it into running your business.Why your big idea—your mission—gives you everything you need to always be thinking with a marketing mindset.Thinking about marketing as helping other people with your brand of wisdom—in ways and on platforms that suit you, your audience and your message.Why sharing your biggest insights is a far better strategy than holding onto them for a select few.How to scale your marketing to serve both your audience and your business.Quotables“You don’t see good marketing and you do see bad marketing.”—JS“Marketing is fun! It’s sharing your expertise and your mission—the transformational change you want to make in your audience.”—RM“If the people whose condition you can improve don’t know you exist then you can’t help them.”—JS“What we want to do with good marketing is to get an emotional response in our audience.”—RM“Don’t keep anything back—share your biggest insights.”—JS “Identifying your mission and the outcomes you want is critical to making your marketing work...what’s the transformation you want to make in your audience?”—RM 

Getting started with an email list—how to write, what to write, where to write (and how to know when you’re ready to begin).Growing your list and deciding what moves to make if your list growth stagnates.The power of collaborating—appearing on other podcasts for example—to grow your audience.How to use launches—both free and paid—to grow your list.Top strategies and tactics to reliably grow your list—from using lead magnets to live digital events (and how to avoid the social media trap).Quotables“Email has got the best combination of features for someone who’s trying to grow an audience and be perceived as an authority.”—JS“People for the most part are thoughtful and kind and sometimes they’ll give you an atta boy or atta girl just when you need it. And other times they’ll give you a perspective you just hadn’t thought of.”—RM“There are two factors (about sharing other platforms): the size of their audience and their compatibility—how open they are to your particular message.”—JS“When you have a good editor (of a media site) they’re protecting the voice of the outlet. But make no mistake—you’re working for them for free.”—RM“The structure of a webinar—and the expectation when you sign up for a webinar—is that you’re gonna be giving your email address.”—JS “When you do these kinds of free challenges—whether they’re audio, video, writing, with or without a slack channel—they will increase your email subscribers.”—RM 

The role of your strategy in deciding whether something is a distraction or an opportunity.Why it’s worth your time to determine the motivation and mindset behind the people approaching you with ideas.Aligning your goals with the ongoing decisions you need to make to keep delivering and funding your mission.When saying yes to distractions becomes a form of procrastination (and how to kick the habit).Knowing what’s a good use of your time and convincing yourself to stick to your own rules.Quotables“At the end of the day, strategy is the litmus test that would separate…distraction and opportunity.”—JS“If you feel like someone is sweet-talking you..look to their materials—their website, social media handles—and get a sense of whether they’re me-focused or other-focused.”—RM“If it can’t fail, it’s not a strategy.”—JS“You have to decide what you’re going to get out of this so you’ll know if it’s a distraction or an opportunity.”—RM“You have a goal, you decide how you’re gonna get there—and if you change how you’re gonna get there, then you’re making a strategic change and that should be a big deal.”—JS “You have to allow yourself the ability to stick to your path.”—RM 

Pursue intimacy at scale.Only create value that can’t be easily copied.The price you charge should match the value you provide.Fewer passionate customers are better than a lot of indifferent ones.Passion is a story.Never be in the commodity business, even if you sell what other people consider a commodity.Quotables“In our world…authority and expertise businesses, when I hear intimacy at scale I immediately think podcasting.”—JS“Let’s agree that price has to be about value—value is external and our job is to find out what clients value so we know how to price what we’re offering.”—RM“If you find people you like and you find out what they want and you help them get it, there is value there. So then all you have to do is figure out how much they’ll pay.”—JS“The important thing is that there are enough people in that niche that you can make a living doing what you love.”—RM“Dry data is not what people need...data is not effective at generating action.”—JS“You have a set of beliefs (your point of view) and you’re imparting them to people in as many different ways as you can think of so they get what you’re trying to say and they stick with you.”—RMLinks:*The Passion Economy Podcast **The Passion Economy Book *

Why passion alone isn’t enough—we also need rigor and hard work to build a successful Passion Economy business.Rethinking your client base as a very tight, intimate group, because fewer passionate clients beat a lot of indifferent ones.How to get clear on the unique value you bring to your clients—and weave that into your business model (and marketing).When letting go of non-ideal clients is essential and how it changes the dynamics of your work.Why pricing should be a dialogue between you and your client vs. a static thing (and why a “shocking” price may be exactly what you need).Quotables“What do you want to be worried about at 3 in the morning—cause you’re gonna be worried at 3 in the morning if you’re an entrepreneur.”—AD“The passion word should convey: I’m going to put me and the wholeness of me into how I make a living. It’s a strong choice. It’s not a trivial choice.”—AD“The rest of us have to use the tools of scale, use the tools of digital communication…to find our intimate group, to find our tiny village even if they’re thinly spread all over the world.”—AD“You don’t want to be the same. You want to say I do this one thing and I do it really well and 99% of people have zero use for it, but there are people who will love it.”—AD“You want to become THE brand for your micro niche.”—AD“1/3 of your customers…are costing you money...if you actually add up the time and how much you’re making, you’d be way better off doing new customer development—or just sleeping.”—AD“It’s the stuff you’re thinking about when you’re doing the pitch that is often the most valuable. You’re looking at this company, you’re sizing them up, you’re taking in what they’re asking and then you’re really coming up with a big strategic vision…the value you’re adding is often front-loaded in that pitch.”—AD“Price really should reflect a dialogue between you and your customer. That customer is getting unique value from you. What is THAT value?”—AD“What if I doubled my prices tomorrow—what would happen? That probably for most people will provoke a crisis.”—ADLinks:The Passion EconomyTwitter

How “pop-up rules” can replace traditional etiquette and avoid social awkwardness.Hosting as a “generous authority” to protect, equalize and connect your guests (and the power of exclusion).The value of a cold open.How creating “good controversy” can lead to powerful experiences and decisions.The importance of preparing people vs. preparing things.Quotables“The pop-up rules are so important because they tell us how to behave—what’s acceptable behavior just for that gathering.”—RM“Having the rules of the road and being the host who calls party foul—that’s what allows people to get into the experience.”—JS“We have the power to design these gatherings…to make them really meaningful.”—RM“Exclusion is key to creating a good event…if the guest list isn’t really curated it creates a different dynamic.”—JS“As the host of a gathering, your job is to be a generous authority.”—RM“You give them something to stick around for, so that the end is a community experience.”—JSLinks + ResourcesThe Art of Gathering Priya’s Newsletter: Text GATHER to 66866Instagram Twitter 

Why there is no such thing as being “too busy” to give your attention to the most important things in your life.Discovering the energy that comes from completing essential work (and the thrill of eliminating the unnecessary).Defeat resistance before it starts.How to keep investing in yourself and your business, even with a heavy client load.Quotables“When I finish a bunch of my stuff—I have like 15 things on my daily list—all in the morning, the day feels very different…it feels like I have a free day.”—JS“When we leave an employer, we tend to take our habits with us…we work that many hours whether we need to or not.”—RM“I have my to-do list open everywhere.”—JS“Part of dealing with procrastination is re-wiring our brains.”—RM“It’s so much easier to create a habit that’s daily.”—JS“Once you make something a habit…you don’t have to think about it.”—RMLinksThe 4 Hour Workweek Atomic Habits Getting Things Done The War of Art Indistractable Outer Order, Inner Calm The Power of Habit 

The mindset—and preparation—you need to leave a corporate job and build a successful consulting business. Why consultants willing to develop an entrepreneurial skillset are more likely to create a sustainable business.The role of leverage in growing your revenue, while decoupling it with your time.How to build and run a highly successful business while traveling the world (or raising your family, practicing your art or any other personal ambition).Why deciding to ignore limiting beliefs is the first step to creating a sustainable business.Quotables“Develop content and get those ideas out there. Don’t wait, even if you are employed right now.”—MZ“Look at all the different people around you—colleagues, your boss, vendors, suppliers…and try to invest in those relationships now. ”—MZ“Productizing parts of your offer allows your clients to get great benefit and value without your direct involvement.”—MZ“Get very clear about the lifestyle you want…then figure out the right business model and the right strategy and the right approach to create the lifestyle you want.”—MZ“People making the transition from corporate to consulting have a limiting belief: that they have to do what they’ve seen others do.”—MZ“Complexity doesn’t scale.”—MZLinksConsulting Success Consulting Blueprint 

The role of early goal setting in propelling Carrie from mastering triple pirouettes to a world tour with Mariah Carey.Working through transitions to break into your next business level—and the signs when a transition is hovering.Taking the pressure off making money on your dream by keeping up other income streams.Carving out a niche for your business while also building a personal brand.Making Instagram work to grow your business without letting it take over your life (and how to use it to provide bona fides for your referral sources).The value of giving yourself grace while you’re chasing your big dreams.​Quotables“I always kept my side hustle…if I could take the energy and the power away from having to make money off my dream…then it left this creative space and it kept my mind clear.”—CL“Finding your niche is paying attention to what’s getting you hired. How is your brand being pushed out there—what is the thing that people hang onto?”—CL“If we’re showing our faces (on Instagram)…we’re showing that little clip of what we did this weekend, it makes us trustworthy, like someone can actually reach out and have a conversation with us.”—CL“It’s accepting that lane that you’re in (your niche) and then focusing on that lane and becoming the authority within that lane.”—CL“Early on, I was taught a few things and one of them was to always say yes when an opportunity comes your way in the area of what you want to do.”—CL“It’s keeping the faith in those middle moments (between transitions) where you feel like the floor is coming out from underneath of you—remembering back to why you started it.”—CL “Communication and building relationships within the areas of your expertise…is just as important as being an authority.”—CL LinksWebsiteInstagramTwitter 

Why the power of your expertise—arguably the key skill of a consultant—pales in comparison to the “softer” powers you’ll need to make sure your advice sticks.How to think about the types of power you hold as a consultant.Using your power to move client projects forward while building your business.When the power-forward, speed-based mode of consulting is more efficient—but less effective.Figuring out which person(s) on your project is the skeptic—and engaging them in the process so you win them over.The role of generosity and charisma in building relationship power.Quotables“The power of expertise doesn’t work if you don’t get your expertise used. Consulting skills are a form of power that you wield when you use them well.”—RM“People in the hierarchy have their own personal goals that may or may not align with the overall project goal.”—JS “Sometimes that person who’s really quiet is actually undermining every thing you’re doing.”—RM“If you don’t have buy-in, when you’re gone they’re just going to switch back to the old way.”—JS“When we start working collaboratively, our ego tends to get tamped down…we sublimate our ego in service to the project.”—RM “If the way the team wants to do it is going to get them to the goal and they’ll feel ownership over it, that’s probably more important than you jamming your beautiful design down their throat.”—JS LinksBuy In Impro 

How to create memorable digital content and leads that build a pipeline of future clients/customers.What role does social capital play on the road to authority?Positioning yourself to value price engagements when your projects don’t have an end date—and you’re currently charging hourly or by retainer.How to apply positioning in the context of music and musicians—is this process different when dealing with an “esoteric” specialty?What do you see ahead for The Business of Authority as you hit 250 episodes in 2022?Quotables“Show up with a posture of service and just help people. Turn strangers into friends and just genuinely care about helping—and do it as much as you can for free.”—JS“You build social capital with your audience, i.e. the people that you resonate with…it’s about figuring out who your people are and building social capital with those people.”—RM“The first thing you have to ask yourself is "am I going to be an artist or a business person?” because it will cause you to make different choices.”—JS“You’ve got the opportunity—because you really understand your audience and the struggles they go through—to render them a unique service.”—RMLinksHow To Make It In The New Music BusinessYour Music And PeopleKevin KellyGot a question for us?Do you have a question that you'd like us to answer on the show? We'd love to hear from you! Email a voice recording to Jonathan at asktboa@jonathanstark.com and we'll add it to the queue.

How to build a financial and emotional runway from your current job to freelancing.Using difficult or turbulent times to build a new business.Starting with a niche—and fine-tuning it after your first year of consulting.Getting clear on your best clients and the right conditions to deliver your best work.How to learn the two most important skill sets to run your consulting business (and neither one is your technical prowess). Quotables“The issue that people wrestle with here is risk mitigation…what can I do to decrease this perception of risk?”—JS “Everyone has a different risk tolerance for having money in the bank or not having money in the bank.”—RM “To get someone on a mailing list…there needs to be a value proposition.”—JS “Experimenting with a side hustle…gives you an opportunity to try out different audiences to see what space you play in best.”—RM LinksFlawless ConsultingThe Trusted Advisor E-Myth Revisited 

The birth of Startup Pregnant (which led to Startup Parent) via a book proposal that led to a podcast that led to a business.Turning a podcast into a money-making endeavor on your terms (hint: pitching people you know with a compelling story).The power of connecting one-to-one vs. one-to-many—and how to build it into your routine without interrupting your flow.The deep need for community among parents as the nature of work changes, society and parenting norms evolve and the pandemic creates new pressure on mothers especially.Getting paid to do research as a way to fund your mission.Quotables“The lessons we learn from parenting are so powerful and presence-inducing. It’s very humbling to realize that maybe you don’t have control.”—SKP “Friday is my marketing day. I have a project called Friday marketing, and one of my tasks is texting 20 people—because we just want to catch up…it’s really fun and all it takes is a tiny bit of instigation.”—SKP “Underneath it all, connection is one on one. So it doesn’t matter what platform you’re using. If you’re on Facebook, if you’re sending a message to one person, if you’re doing a common thread that’s kind and generous with one person, that’s connection. Everything else is consumption.”—SKP “We don’t have to do things the way they’ve always been done. We can create the future we want to see.”—SKP “Everyone thinks that information or a strategy or a process or a template is the thing they’re selling, but the true value for almost every program they’re selling is the connection.”—SKP “If you can’t do a big project, do a small project. Do what you can with the time you have.”—SKP LinksStartup Parent Sarah K. Peck 

The signs you’re ready to start pitching to media.Identifying the right media for you today—bloggers and podcasters, niche media and name brand digital and print outlets.How to think of and treat journalists to capture their attention and get your message heard.The role of media attention in building your authority and your business (hint: it is often NOT a straight line).Deciding which success criteria matter most and how to use them to guide your decisions and attention.   Quotables“One sign that you know you’ve got something is where you have a hook to a really hot story. There are times—and 2020 is one of them—where there are only two or three really hot stories.”—RM“You need to be measuring something—even if it’s intangible…know WHY you’re doing it (pitching media) or you’ll feel like you’re shouting into the void.”—JS“When it comes to authority…we want our name associated with our ideas, and that means media.”—RM“The “trick” is to look at media as a potential long-term relationship and you just start helping—you develop a posture of service.”—JS“Sometimes you have a favorite publication and you realize they don’t cover your topic at all or they do it in a way you think is insufficient. Pitch them!” —RM“If my strategy is to get a monthly column in a big publication then I’ll pick different outlets to reach out to than if my success metric was to increase the number of my email subscribers.”—JS

What kind of pricing model would you recommend to a consulting agency that has traditionally relied on a retainer model?How do you think international business and economics can and should impact pricing? I’ve seen agencies price certain fixed cost products lower in certain countries to make them more accessible.How should small businesses consider reorienting their offerings within the current economic situation? Is now the time to be moving toward industries that are profitable or focusing on industries with high value problems to solve?Do you have any specific tactics or strategies to get customers on the phone and ask them questions that will help you get insight into the problems they’re experiencing so you can better position and market yourself?What are your thoughts on vertical vs. horizontal positioning and what sort of marketing would you do with either one of them?Quotables“For a recurring model, I like to go with an advisory retainer where you’re not doing execution, but making yourself available at the drop of a hat to answer questions.”—JS“You want to make sure that you’re not giving away so much that you can’t stay with the mission.”—RM“Help people you like get what they want. I’m not a fan of chasing opportunity. I like opportunity to come to me.”—JS“Who do you want to help succeed, who do you want to transform…and what’s that particular transformation that you make in a way no one else does. There’s your power.”—RMLinksEmail RochelleEmail JonathanThe Introduction GameCeleste Headlee TEDx 10 Ways To Have A Better ConversationGot a question for us?Do you have a question that you'd like us to answer on the show? We'd love to hear from you! Email a voice recording to Jonathan at asktboa@jonathanstark.com and we'll add it to the queue.

When it makes sense to write a proposal and when to take a pass.The role of the sales interview in writing your proposal.How to capture the essence of the outcomes you’ll deliver in non-jargon (and avoid weasel words).Enticing your clients to actually read your proposal and learning to anchor high with the value you’re delivering.Adopting the posture of an expert and carrying it through in your proposal.Quotables“If you do a good job in the sales interview the proposal writes itself.”—JS“Every human being wants to be heard. So when you read a proposal and you go “Oh my God, they get it”…it’s huge.”—RM“Imagine that your contact is going to take your proposal and show it to their spouse or their CFO or their Board…it needs to be thoroughly 100% clear to a 10 year old.”—JS“Clients will tell you a low (budget) number and a newbie tries to hit that number. That’s the mistake.”—RM“Budget doesn’t matter…it’s is a made-up number that they (the client) based on a self diagnosis.”—JS“Consulting: you’re not an employee, they (the client) are not directing you. You are leading them to the promised land.”—RM

This week on TBOA, Rochelle and I talk about the importance of knowing how to get your clients to shout “Heck, yeah!”Talking PointsWhat your website is forWho your website is forWhat you want to happen in the first second a visitor lands on your pageThe importance of knowing the language of your ideal buyerWhat to do if niching down on an ideal buyer feels too riskyQuotable Quotes“If your site isn’t getting you leads, it’s broken. It might as well be down.”—JS“It’s really hard to decide what to say when you don’t know who you’re talking to.”—JS“It’s not about you. The client is the hero.”—RM“One attention grabbing headline can make all the difference.”—RM“Lots of people misuse Simon Sinek’s ‘Start With Why’ concept.”—JS“If you can articulate your client’s problem better than they can, they’ll assume you have the solution.”—JS“I know when people reach the right level of specificity because the words start flowing.”—JS“I’ve almost never encountered someone who was too niched down.”—JS“Before you give up on the niche, revisit your messaging.”—RM“There’s no way around it. You need to have conversations with your ideal buyers and REALLY listen to what they say.”—JS“To grow your business, listen to your ideal buyers and then speak their language.”—RMRelated linksSimon SinekAmy HoyPhilip MorganLaura ElizabethWe want you to be a part of our 150th episode!We’re planning a special episode for #150 and you can have a chance to participate! Just record your question and send it to me at jstark@jonathanstark.com and if it’s chosen, we will play your question and answer it on the show.Yours,—J

We're planning a special episode for #150 and you can have a chance to participate! Just record your question and send it to either of us and if it's chosen, we will play your question and answer it on the show. Evaluating the continuum from leading (like say thought leadership) to exploring in your space.How to know when to explore vs. when to lead.When “busy” feels productive, but is instead keeping you in exactly the same position—neither exploring nor leading.Deciding where on the exploring vs. leading continuum you want to be (for now).Making choices to give you quick wins while still playing the long game.Quotables“Exploring is about welcoming synchronicity, coincidence, luck and connection.”—JS “You might have phases where you explore…maybe your business model isn’t working so you decide to pivot and you open yourself up to ‘what other things could I do?’” —RM “You don’t have to have the map—you can make the map as you’re going. ”—JS “We naturally gravitate to different points on the spectrum. Even if right now you’re in an explore phase, that doesn’t mean that’s where you’re going to stay.” —RM

What is scope and when do you talk about it with your client?How to make it clear that you’re a consultant, not an order taker.Scoping with (and without) value pricing.The relationship between mastery, value and scoping.Shifting from doing full implementation to strategy and project oversight (hint: it starts in the scoping meeting).Quotables“Push it back to: what is the desired business outcome here or the transformation you’re looking for?”—JS “You can feel good about your services at a lot of different price points.” —RM “It’s super important to scope last and not go into the sales meeting assuming that you need to find a way to convince the client to pay you to do your thing.”—JS “We can all find a way to strip off the things that we really love and focus on just selling those.”—RM

Note: We're planning a special episode for #150 and you can have a chance to participate! Just record your question (QuickTime is great for this), send it to either of us and if it's chosen, we will play your question and answer it on the show.What to do when your audience growth stalls—or worse.How to shake things up when you’re out of content ideas—and discerning the difference between a dry spell and when you need to make real change.When someone keeps “beating” you—and you’re feeling like you’re in the shadow of a competitor. Hint: perception isn’t always reality.Dealing with a true revenue plateau—including how to decide which signs and metrics to pay attention to.What to do if your ideal prospects just don’t get what you’re selling or when they’re comparing you to the wrong options.Quotables“If you’re going on other podcasts or you’re doing livestreams with someone else and it’s just not moving the needle, then you have to start asking yourself: maybe my message needs to be refreshed or changed.”—JS “When you’re out of content ideas, you’ve to fill the well. And that isn’t fingers poised over your keyboard…you have to go do something else.” —RM“We all have our idols—the people we look up to. But that doesn’t mean our businesses and how we take our messages to market should look the same.”—RM“The way out of (prospects not getting it) is all about conversations—optimizing for conversations. Having as many conversations—virtual or otherwise—to see if people’s eyebrows go up or down.” —JS 

Note: We're planning a special episode for #150 and you can have a chance to participate! Just record your question (QuickTime is great for this), send it to us and if it's chosen, we will play your question and answer it on the show. What happens when you get so attached to a specific outcome that you become blind to other possibilities?How to get to those epiphany moments that will open you up to experience a break-through.Building resilience by looking to your past experiences and applying your existing learning.How to find the tools, resources and role models to create extraordinary outcomes, even when the deck is stacked against you.Using serendipity to push your agenda forward (and the plus side of a coffee addiction).The benefits of getting engaged in your various communities across geographies.Quotables“It’s never a full 180 (pivot)—there are always whispers, signs, intuition leading up to that. ”—KS “I’m fueled by being in service to the world. So that’s what I do when I’m in one of those pits.”—KS“I was going to take those boys by the hands and guide them to the greatness that I knew they were destined for.”—KS “I learned to develop relationships—not just asking for, but giving first.”—KS Related LinksWebsiteThe BookTwitterInstagramFacebook

How to think of innovation when we talk authority businesses.Warning signs it may be time for you to innovate.How to deal with and ride the wave of a sea change—in the world, technology, attitudes, your industry.Acting on the cues that it’s time to innovate.Incorporating innovation into your business model and routines.Quotables“Innovation is the opposite of resting on your laurels.”—JS“Part of innovation is you’re testing the premise you already have and you’re asking where could it be better—where could I improve this?”—RM“How does this create a new opportunity for my people that I could broadcast or share with them or some insight on what this makes possible for them?” —JS “It’s understanding what your value is and finding the market that will pay you for that.”—RM

How to know when you’re ripe for starting a new specialty.Overcoming the challenges of changing your identity—how you see yourself in your business.Questions to ask yourself for clues to defining a new specialty direction.Recognizing when clients are actually pointing the way to a new specialty.How to tell a connected story to your buyers as you enter a new specialty.Quotables“The people that make the transition successfully are the ones that don’t get too attached to their role.”—RM “The first trick is being open to the identity shift.”—JS “The second hard thing is just recognizing the opportunity—even if you’re looking for it, it can be hard to identify.” —JS “The key is to connect the new thing that you’re doing to the old thing you did—in your mind and most importantly your buyer’s mind.”—RM

How to get clear right now on your 20%. Decreasing the friction (time, process, money) of any actions that don’t fall into your critical 20%.A handful of ideas to leverage your time on activities that will deliver 80% of your results.Identifying the actions that are not fun, not easy and don’t contribute to your 80%—so you can stop doing them (or hand them off).Why freeing up headspace to focus on your 20% can make you not only more productive, but happier.Quotables“It’s clear to me that writing is the thing.”—JS “When we’re talking about building authority, it’s pretty hard to do it without writing.”—RM “For me, webinars are the thing that has been super productive…it’s fun, it’s easy, people love ‘em and they end up on my mailing list”—JS “Social media is a distribution system for your content. It’s a way to get a broader distribution of your content and entice people to sign up for your list.”—RM 

The value of starting small, including carefully curating the initial members you invite to your community.Growing your tribe organically by tapping into existing members and setting a consistent tone.How building an engaged community can build your authority quickly.How to position yourself (and your ideas) inside a community to increase your chances of being successful.How to think about the time you spend building community (hint: we’re talking business development).Where you’ll get your value as a member or community creator and why fostering more connections is good for everyone.Quotables“Growing a community…is not tons of work. It’s just a little bit of gardening-type work where you go out and weed the garden, water it a little bit and come back every day.”—JS “A community can be a warming plate—how you keep your people in motion or warming up until they’re ready to work with you.”—RM “If you’re looking for community and can’t find it, maybe you need to start it.”—JS “Part of building or engaging in a community is finding your people.”—RM 

When nurturing what you already have is more important than trying to reach a specific metric. How setting extreme goals can work provided they operate as motivation vs. a source of disappointment.The difference between progress metrics and success metrics—and how to use them to understand the trends in your business.Using social media metrics in meaningful ways.The relationship between business maturity and metrics.How the interrelationship of your services and products can impact how you measure both tangibles and intangibles.Quotables“When your estimate is kind of far off the actual, it can be extremely demoralizing.”—JS “Social media makes it so easy to measure someone by how many followers they have—but that’s not what matters. What matters is how does it move the needle on what you’re doing?” RM “You want to look for clients with more business maturity rather than less business maturity. Start-ups don’t have anything to measure—they have no numbers so there’s nothing to move.”—JS “Look behind the surface level of metrics so that you allow them to show you how you’re doing, but also to feed you in ways that are positive.” RM 

Why the extremes get stronger during massive change and why you don’t want to be in the middle.The real value of your brand and the experiences you deliver (vs. what you might think they are).How price aligns with value and the bargaining power of the market leader.Deciding which experiences and outcomes you want to promote.The value of being the head or the tail—and why as an authority the head is way more attractive.Quotables“When the internet comes for your industry…the middle gets destroyed.”—JS “The impact of the pandemic and people working from home is just going to accelerate the virtual nature of work.”—RM “Be Amazon or Apple.”—JS“As an authority, you want to be the head or the tail. The more you niche, the more opportunities you’ll have to be at the head.” RM 

How a mailing list can be your saving grace.What to do if your business stinks right now.Using the level of difficulty in your services and products to decide where/how to invest your resources.The role of data vs. gut instinct in making key decisions.Timing the launch of your business changes to when your audience is most receptive to your message.Mapping out your year (and linking it to your website and other marketing collateral).Refreshing your marketing with email sequences and podcast episodes.Quotables“It’s time to make an assessment. What happens if we keep doing what we’re doing?”—RM “lf I was gonna make a better future for myself, I’d ask: what are the things I’m doing now that exhaust me and what would really excite me? How can I move over to the exciting things and still fund the mission?”—JS “What is the experience I want to give somebody who goes through 100 days (of my email sequence)—and how can I give them the opportunity to go deep when they want to?”—RM “The way to have a good podcast is to start with an OK podcast and make it better over time.”—JS 

This week, Jonathan and I tackled a listener question: What’s the best way to set-up a supportive technical ecosystem—website, email, podcast, billing, etc.—for the first time?We addressed this question strategically and then offered some tactical feedback on various platforms and systems to support your authority business:Why email is the centerpiece of your ecosystem (hint: it’s your relationship-building device).Looking for perfection in your systems is a waste of time—find the ones that give you the functionality you need with a small amount of room to grow into it.Deciding what you want your website to do—and letting that guide you to the right messaging, platforms and technology. Why SEO rarely moves the needle when you’re selling expertise—and what to use instead.The systems and software that support building trust and intimacy with podcasts and video.Quotables“Of this list of things, I don’t think the website is the most important...in a heartbeat, I’d delete my website before I’d delete my email list.”—JS “Your website is the strategic representation of you out in the world—so what do you want that to look like?”—RM “Invent your own keywords instead of buying keywords people are already searching for.”—JS “You don’t have to automate everything—you can start small and then move up…don’t let perfection be the enemy”—RM LinksLater.com for Instagram

The idea for this week’s episode of TBOA came from none other than Mister Rogers (as in Mister Rogers’ Neighborhood) who articulated his big idea perfectly to journalist Tom Junod. How Mr. Rogers’ big idea changed the worldview of a cynical journalist—and how to apply the same framework to yours.A formula to start pinpointing your big idea (with a live example to see how it works in real life).Weaving the elements of a big idea into your marketing and branding.The psychic rewards from having your own business and the role your mindset plays in naming your big idea. Making your big idea crackle with emotion for your target audience.Quotables“A great big idea is really concise, really clear and really big.”—JS “Your big idea is focused not on you and what you do but on the result—the outcome, the transformation you deliver.”—RM “You know you’re onto something when you find the germ of an emotional reaction in your wording. You start thinking: that’s what I do—it makes me really happy and clients love these outcomes.”—RM “The less clear your big idea, the more drag there will be, the more waste there will be…if you can streamline your big idea, you can start zooming.”—JS 

Getting clear on the experiences and stories that have defined your life and your work (including an exercise to try on your own).Why you want to suspend judgment around your experiences and instead look for the connecting threads that your clients will value.Turning your experiences into powerful stories that align with your brand.Specific actions that allow you to go deeper with clients and prospects and (not coincidentally) sell more great-fit work.Using strategic graphic design to help translate your brand strategy into visuals (and how to choose a designer that is a good fit for you).Creating alignment between the experience of working with you and your stories, actions and visuals.Choosing powerful images that support your message.Quotables“Tactics work when they’re attached to strategy.”—RM“A lot of people—when they hear the word “brand”—think about the visual: a logo, colors, font…but that’s only a third of what we really mean when we talk brand.”—RM “It’s not a pitch. You’re not trying to impress anyone—you’re trying to find out if the client is a good fit for you.”—JS “Copying someone else’s visuals makes no sense—it doesn’t pass the sniff test.”—JS 

NOTE: Rochelle and I recorded this episode before the terrible news about George Floyd hit. We both support the #blacklivesmatter movement and hope everyone will take action to support much needed change. Here’s a good place to start if you’re not sure how to help: https://blacklivesmatters.carrd.co/How to make selling the invisible—your services—tangible in the mind of your ideal buyer.Why once you reach a certain level of technical mastery, your most impactful investment won’t be in more technical knowledge. What will drive sales far more than the technical aspects of what you do.Using stories, actions and visuals to give your ideal clients a taste of what it’s like to work with you.Fixing any disconnects between your marketing/sales collateral and the actual experience of working with you.The advantages of podcasting in selling services.Quotables“We’re taking something that’s not tangible and trying to make it feel tangible to someone who’s not an expert at what you do. “—JS “Once you reach a certain level of technical mastery, increasing it won’t change how much you sell or how well you serve your clients.”—RM “Your client’s experience of how good you are is…going to boil down to your treatment of them and your relationship, not the actual nuts and bolts of what you do.”—JS “All of the small…decisions you make on your website telegraph who you are to your potential clients.“—RM

Learning to recognize (and redirect) the shiny ball syndrome.Is this an opportunity or a distraction: how to tell the difference.Getting comfortable experimenting with strategy-based tactics (knowing there’s no guarantee which ones will work).Why tactics used by others are data points, not a personal prescription.How focus—even boundary limits and some structure—can actually multiply your creativity and body of work vs. limit them.An example from Apple…Quotables“Decide where you’re driving and how you’re going to get there. Because otherwise you’re going one inch in every direction all year.”—JS “The more you focus on one strategy, the more serendipity occurs.” —RM “If it’s an activity that is…incongruent with your strategy, I’m gonna yell at you.“—JS “You can get lucky, but you won’t get consistently lucky until you have a strategy.”—RM 

1:15—Leveraging your expertise into an unconventional (short!) self-published e-book.11:16—Developing a “set it and forget it” course: how to price it and target your audience.14:06—Building (and pricing) high engagement virtual workshops.24:13—On-line seminars (think a workshop/self-paced course hybrid) and the rewards of building a peer group cohort.30:24—Starting membership communities and paid subscriptions, including how to leverage your time to increase membership value.34:50—How to deliver virtual advisory and coaching options at various price points and engagement levels. 38:50—Evaluating the difficulty of selling vs. delivering each model to help you decide what to do first. Quotables“ Having three options is a really powerful way to increase the money you’re making, but also to deliver more value to people who want to engage with you at a higher level.”—JS “When you align the way you like to deliver with what your audience prefers...that’s magic.” —RM “Different packages of expertise create different expectations in the minds of your buyer.“—JS “If your expertise is around something that really needs time to bake, then a seminar is a great solution.”—RM 

 2:16—How you can look at the world right now and start thinking about (and even betting on) what’s coming.11:20—The impact of potential fundamental shifts on how you work.14:20—Why this can be a time to increase the “altitude” of what you discuss with your clients (and how to do it).17:12—A strategic way to look at the future and how it meshes with your talents and passions.24:15—Adopting a mindset that works even when bad things are happening around you.31:11—Identifying your ideal sweet-spot—where your target market overlaps with your talents and passions.33:45—Contingency plans to deal with the fear that comes with change.37:30—The industry doing inspirational re-invention we can all learn from.Quotables“In this one year it feels like we’ll get 10 years of movement on this thing (working remotely).”—JS“Being there for your clients as a sounding board is where you as a professional advisor can be helpful, valuable and rare.”—RM “Maybe this is a time to be moving up—increasing your altitude in involvement with your clients—talking about bigger picture things.“—JS “There’s an opportunity here to zig while everyone else is zagging.“—RM 

 2:36—What’s happening right now with social media and how to reflect that back in your interactions.9:38—How to choose the right platforms for you and your message.14:09—Why Instagram is so engaging right now (and how to explore whether/how it will work for you).18:34—Joining the conversation that’s already happening in people’s heads.23:18—The core question to answer to be successful on social media, no matter what else is going on.27:09—How to create engagement in social media.36:00—How to put together a social media playbook to keep you focused and on target.QUOTABLES“If that’s where the people are…then I’m going to go flap my jaw there.”—JS “It’s about empathy—putting yourself in the heads of your clients right now…and then adopting that tone out on social media”—RM “Every single thing I post…I always think: what’s in it for the reader? How am I going to not waste their time?”—JS “People are going to remember this time. They might not remember exactly what we did, but they’ll remember if we were there or just slithered away.”—RM LINKSSocial Media Playbook  

Are you ready to let go?Talking PointsThe feeling of letting goRe-evaluating your choices amid the pandemicSpring cleaning different aspects of your lifeQuestioning whether you need all of the things you haveEmotional and mental letting goReframing your ideas and routinesCutting little anchors while bigger roots help to ground youGiving yourself an alternative dialogueDoing the things that you’ve been thinking aboutRelated Links:Your Money or Your LifeQuotable Quotes“When it really came down to it and I’m staring at four 7-foot trophies—do I really want these in the house?” –JS“How much better is it to do it not when your money changes, but when you change?” –RM“I generally prefer when I’m less anchored down.” –JS“It’s the idea that you can do things differently and that is good.” –RM 

Are you ready to construct your new normal?Talking PointsHow to prepare yourself for the recovery from this phaseTaking your own new normal and your clients’ new normal into accountRe-evaluating decisions and expensesGiving yourself permission for things to changeFinding new niches and opportunities through being helpfulQuestioning assumptionsMake time to really listen to what people are sayingAdapting to a catalystUsing your extra timeNot holding on too tightlyThe difference between worry and stressBeing more communicative during the quarantineSmoothing out the transition between your old normal and your new normalQuotable Quotes“I think it would be no surprise to hear that I think doing nothing right now is the absolute worst thing you could do.” –JS“I think there’s a part of this where you have to give yourself permission that things are going to change.” –RM“There’s a strong percentage of people who are taking this time to evolve.” –JS“The catalyst can get you started, but you have to adapt as you go, or the catalytic event doesn’t do you much good.” –RM

How are your habits changing?Talking PointsHow a change in routine can end up having an effect on your habitsHabits are about long-term goalsAnchor habitsTaking an inventory of daily habitsMaintaining a sense of control with self-controlHow personal routines can pay off in your businessHow bad habits emerge during uncertain timesBeing more conscious of bad habitsHabits that lead to a healthier businessThe difference between a routine and a rutOvercoming fearLook for opportunities to develop new creative habitsQuotable Quotes“The funny thing about habits is, it’s really easy to start bad ones, and it’s really hard to start good ones and stick with them.” –JS“If you’ve got an anchor habit that’s been interrupted by what’s been going on now, or something else that’s going on in your life, you have to find a way to get back the core pieces of that anchor habit.” –RM“We need to be emotionally healthy for our clients and for the people who depend on us.” –JS“I’ve actually found it relatively easy to stay on point because I already had those routines to begin with.” –RM 

What can you do right now to build trust with your clients, buyers and audience?The Trust Equation to measure your trustworthinessHow to become more trustworthyWhy we and our clients are more emotional right nowWhat to do when you feel the desire to put your head in the sandHow to increase your intimacy with your clientsMaking generous offers (including risky gifts)What’s the “right” way to sell right now?Finding someone to helpDoing the next right thingMaking memories with your clientsLeading from our highest selvesQuotable Quotes“You need to pay attention to the fact that our emotional lives are front and center—raw edges, band aids ripped off—that needs to be acknowledged in our interactions with our clients.” –CG“This is a fantastic time to reach out and have a deep discussion with your clients—not only to give advice…but to connect.” –CG“Get over your damned self and pay attention to others’ freak out.” –CG“The way you generate short-term revenue is with long-term behavior.” –CGThe Trusted Advisor 

What you need to hear before you cut your fees.Talking PointsWhy you might be considering cutting your fees right nowWhy you should avoid making assumptions about your clients’ needs and financial standingHaving the conversation with your clientsAvoid making decisions out of fearChange is going to happen regardlessGetting clear about your valueProducts with the least personal investmentWhy free is better than cheapGroup coaching pricesAdding more value for your existing audienceGiving away video or audio vs. booksLive eventsSending out invoicesQuotable Quotes“If you have – especially for clients where you’ve got this tight one-on-one relationship – just have the conversation.” –JS“Blanket anything is pretty much not going to work.” –RM“Things change, and they keep moving forward. The pace of change is through the roof right now, but it’s normal, it’s just compressed.” –JS“If nothing else, this whole mess is an opportunity to get really clear about what you’re contributing to your clients' bottom line.” –RM

What’s your implied promise to your market?Talking PointsA listener question from episode 100 (the Seth Godin episode)What your buyer is paying forLess tangible value-addsHow brand relates to trustThe “one-firm” firmMaintaining consistencyYour implied promiseMeeting client expectationsQuotable Quotes“The premium piece, the over and above part of the fee, is the part that they’re not paying for the advice. They’re paying for something else.” –JS “Trust is really key here, because that’s what brand really does—it’s building trust.” –RM“Standing apart from the crowd – there needs to be something different about you.” –JS“Everything you do—your actions, your stories, your visuals—should align with this implied promise you’ve made to your market.” –RM

How positioning plus pricing equals profits.Talking PointsThe concept of value pricingPrice vs. hourly rateSetting acceptable pricesPaul Newman’s RolexHow to differentiate yourself from the competition so that price isn’t the only distinctionHow big corporations choose between different pricesHow positioning affects your leverageWays to set pricesHow your prices can rise over timeHaving the courage to keep charging moreA fixed price can be a meaningful differentiationHow hourly billing punishes experienceSelling access to expertiseOwning your spaceImpact and influenceQuotable Quotes“If you’re renting yourself out by the hour, then you’re not pricing anything. That’s not a price.” –JS“When you lead with your hourly rate, it gives clients a point of reference that isn’t valid.” –RM“If your audience are big corporates, a lot of times they have to choose the lowest price.” --RM“If you are the obvious choice, then those other “competitors” are just not on the table anymore.” –JS 

 What to do when your business is unsellable at the momentStaying client focused while so much remains in fluxHow to apply your skills to the new reality your clients are in nowAvoiding a hoarder, everyone-for-themselves mentalityWhy helping clients and your audience is your best path forwardAvoiding sounding “tone deaf” in your communicationsStepping up and being a leader for those you serveLetting go of how you’ve done your business if it’s no longer workingThings you can work on nowDoing the next right thingAdapting to our new realityDiscovering new talents and superpowersUsing any newly quiet space to develop your ideasQuotable Quotes“The most effective thing you can do is focus on who you can help.” –JS“You do want to come up with ways that are client-focused for you to meet them where they are now…their new pains, their new anxieties, their new concerns or nightmares.” –JS“Even if you’re a soloist…if you’re out there, talking about your big idea, trying to make a group of people better in some way, you are a leader. It’s our responsibility at times like this to step up and lead.” –RM“There’s a hidden surprise in all this—when you start serving clients in a way you hadn’t expected, you might discover some new talents and even a new superpower.” –RM

How can you prove your authority?Talking PointsWhat evidence of authority looks likeClient testimonialsClients talking you upSocial media followingRegular speaking gigsGetting big guests on your podcastHaving a published bookFocusing on interviewees that your target audience will recognizeThird-party validation from a trusted brandBuilding relationships with major players in your field of authorityBeing the biggest fish in your pondQuotable Quotes“These signposts need to be difficult or everyone would have them and it wouldn’t be proof of anything.” –JS“I like the idea of clients talking you up.” –RM“It’s definitely a big deal to get big guests on your podcast.” –JS“It’s not about vanity, it’s about literally these building blocks in your authority.” –RM

When does prospecting build authority?Talking PointsWhat prospecting means for an authority3 different pivotsWhen prospecting is the perfect playShifting to a different audienceTechniques for getting your message outBeing a good listenerBeing interested in order to be interestingGetting feedback that starts conversationsHow to ask for feedbackHow reciprocity helps build a networkPracticing reaching out even when you’re not at a pivot pointQuotable Quotes“Prospecting is a natural part of what you expect to do, typically, when you start your own business.” –RM“The skills that you use to prospect are the same no matter what the pivot point.”“Another word for this that I hear used regularly instead of “prospecting” is “outreach”. –JS “I think everyone’s interesting if you ask the right questions.” –JS

What’s the V-word?Talking PointsVision shameWhere the confusion around vision comes fromImagining the way the world could be if your big idea comes to fruitionHow your mission relates to your visionThe big V and the little VYour valuesHow vision helps you filter out distraction and keep moving forwardChanging outcomes for the futureHow to articulate a visionFinding the vision in the storiesWorking as if you have a vision before you have oneWhat to do to uncover your visionQuotable Quotes“There’s shame around not having a clearly articulated vision.” –RM“It’s your vision for the future. It’s the way the world could be if your big idea comes to fruition.” –JS“Values is the kind of stuff that no matter what business you’re in, they’re not going to change.” –JS“Your vision is the story you tell about where you’re going.” –RM

What three questions should you ask yourself during the sales process?Talking PointsWhy you need to answer some questions yourself during the sales processWhat resources you need to serve the clientCalculating how your time and costs are incurred on behalf of a clientWhether the job allows you to work from your genius zoneKnowing when to say “no” to working in a different wayKnowing how to say “no”Burning out and checking outHow a particular project or client advances your authorityLearning and advancing your skillsetCreating momentum for your businessBeing intentional about broadening your target marketTreating other aspects of your business the same way that you would a clientTricking yourself into getting things doneGetting your business into alignmentQuotable Quotes“These are the kinds of questions that are going to help advance you, your business, and your authority, and I think we get into trouble when we don’t ask these kinds of questions.” –RM “If you’ve recognized in the past that clients tend to lead to more clients that are similar, then you’re really going down a rabbit hole.” –JS“Everybody’s genius zone is different. That’s the glory of it.” –RM“By definition, it feels like you have a smaller pool of potential opportunities. But the reality is that the exact opposite ends up happening.”

Do you know the difference between branding and positioning?Talking PointsUnderstanding brandingStories, actions, and visualsNarrow or broad focusPositioning as a first stepNot being limited by your existing skillsLearning new skillsWhen branding becomes criticalBeing intentional about your brandingTelling your story your own wayPersonal brandsFiguring out which stories and visuals will advance your brand with your audienceConsistency in brandingThe importance of the markDefining what makes your projects great or terribleThe value of storiesQuotable Quotes“To me the brand is what people say about you behind your back.” –JS“Literally everything that you do telegraphs a message to the people who are watching.” –RM“You can build authority without having had 25 years doing one thing.” –RM“If you keep at it, they get imbued with meaning, and it becomes meaningful to other people too, and before you know it, you’re leading a movement.” –JS

Are you making time to write?Talking PointsJonathan’s plans for 2020Doing more work without being a workaholicWhy Jonathan created a Slack channelMaking the time to writeWriter’s blockDeveloping and sharing your point of viewHoning your ideas and your audienceFocusing on the transformation of your ideal audienceMaking a commitment to writeThinking of writing as givingThe importance of editingStriving for excellenceGetting into the habit of daily writingQuotable Quotes“I started to feel myself going back to letting my brain stop. Like, check out.” –JS“I know that in order to write ten books that don’t completely stink in one year, I’m going to need a lot of help.” –JS“We need to have a challenge in our own mind about what we’re going to do.” –RM“You can’t say, “Oh, I’m blocked.” Just write. Just write something. Write anything.” –RMRelated Links10 in 2020 Slack

Can you be an introverted authority?Talking PointsAdam Grant’s bookGiver and taker personalities in salesWhy givers make more salesWhen people want someone to be dominant and when they want authorities to connect as humansAuthenticityPutting ego asideMethods of giving things awayThe evolution of business practicesOtherishFinding a way to give while also getting your own needs metQuotable Quotes“The power is all with the givers in the sense that you can create what you want by helping other people.” –RM “If you’re an authority and you’re leading people to this new vision, you need to sell them on the idea, if nothing else.” –JS“We’re looking for cues that the people that we really respect as authorities or experts, authorities in the making, that they’re real people.” –RM“Another way to put it is you’re giving in a way that’s going to energize you immediately.” –JSRelated LinksGive and Take: Why Helping Others Drives Our Success by Adam Grant

Are you in the best position as a soloist?Talking PointsThe definition of positioningApril Dunford’s components of effective positioningPositioning people vs. productsFocusing on the clients that already love youHow a soloist can think about forming a positioning teamPositioning vocabularyCharting your point of viewAlternatives and competitorsListing your true competitive alternativesTaking inventory of major life experiencesPositioning exercisesMapping attributes to value themesFinding a market frame of referenceChanging your positioning in every place where you exist publiclyGetting your sound bites down on a single documentQuotable Quotes“I think what happens a lot of time when soloists struggle with this is that there hasn’t been a deliberate defining of that market.” –RM“People either get you energized, or they suck it out of you.” –RM“You want to take financial advice from Warren Buffet, not your buddy who blows his whole paycheck on Keno.” –JS“If you’ve got some feature or attribute that is unique between you and the alternatives that someone might choose, you still need to translate it for your buyer, who is not your peer.” –JS

Do you know how to position your product or service?Talking PointsApril’s backgroundWhy positioning is importantWhat positioning isEmail for lawyersProblems caused by weak positioningHow solos can identify positioning problemsChoosing criteria that ensures clients will be happy in the endPositioning the business itself versus individual offeringsHow publishing a book affected April’s inbound leadsBooks as part of the overall businessQuotable Quotes“There’s branding and there’s positioning. Those two things are totally separate, and in fact, you need to have your positioning sorted out first, before you decide what your branding should be.” –AD“Now I think there’s more of an awareness around positioning.” –AD“Now, I’m booked up 3-4 months in advance, my rates are way higher, I work way less, and my clients are way happier, because I only promise to do this one very narrow thing, but it’s a super valuable thing, and if you’ve got this problem, who else you gonna call?” –AD“If you’re going to make that investment in doing marketing, there should be a call to action in there.” --AD

Do you know how to sell confidence?Talking PointsWhen clients are buying confidenceThe availability of ideasThe link between trust and confidenceChoosing who is going to be a good fitWhen clients don’t have confidence in themselvesHow trust factors inBuilding your authority so that they know who you areCorporate coachingParachute consultingBuilding trust without face-to-face meetingsUnderstanding the points that inspire confidence in your ideal audienceQuotable Quotes“What I realized was that the people who bought me and my services for this were really buying confidence.” –RM“Every thought that comes out of my brain, you can get for free on my mailing list.” –JS“You’re not going to share things or be vulnerable with someone you don’t trust.” –RM“If somebody needs that in-person experience to feel like they’re getting their money’s worth, they’re not a good fit.” –JS 

Listen to Joe Jacobi, winner of our five in five challenge, talk about the art of a good start!Talking PointsJoe’s backgroundWhitewater canoeingThe progress from winning a gold medal to performance coachingHow lingo can obstruct a good dialogueTranslating your belief system to client transformationsWhen Joe started writing and coachingWhat Joe liked about the five in five challengeWhether Joe will continue writing going forwardFinding value in the process of creatingThe feedback Joe got from LinkedInJoe’s advocacyGetting out of your comfort zoneDetermining what you want out of lifeJoe’s feedback for people who didn’t take the challengeQuotable Quotes“I’m not scared of slow growth. In fact, I’m a big advocate of it.” –JJ“What I liked about five in five the most, even more than connecting with people and seeing the content do well, is what you guys are advocating for in the daily communication: it helps you find your voice.” –JJ“I think people enjoy when I find ways to take them into Catalonia or share Catalan values.” –JJ“I want to be one of those people that really squeeze the orange dry.” –JJRelated Links:Joe JacobiTwitter List of Participants

How well do you know your audience?Talking PointsTranslating what you do into the language of your audienceKnowing your goalPicking an audienceLearning what your audience is talking aboutSpeaking to your audience in a way that gets your message acrossWhere to find audiences who are talking about the problems you want to solveLocally focusingConversations in service of a missionUsing the vocabulary that your audience understandsThinking about clients as an audienceQuotable Quotes“A lot of people just think about their skills, they think about what their capabilities are, they’re very much thinking about themselves in sort of an employee/resume type mindset and not what they can do for their clients. And when I say do, I mean transform.” –JS“You want to start with this idea, this picture in your head of who your audience is.” –RM“If you want to know what your clients are thinking or you’re trying to pick a niche or whatever, go online and find where they’re talking.” –JS“It may strike fear in your heart, but you have to do it anyway. If you can’t bring yourself to do it anyway, yeah, rethink leaving the salaried job.” –RM

Is selling subscriptions for you?Talking PointsHow subscription services became mainstreamApplying the subscription model to a services firmThe Porsche passportConsider what the buyer is actually buying with a subscription serviceBuying an experience instead of a productThe types of clients who would be interested in a subscription serviceThe safest type of service to sell by subscriptionSelling accessLooking at the big picture when it comes to profitabilityThinking about which services you’d like to pay by subscriptionGetting a sense of what your clients value about your work and whether they’d be interested in a subscription version of thatQuotable Quotes“I think it’s pretty clear that the idea of subscribing to things that we used to own has become fairly mainstream.” –JS “I think that our audience has an advantage because most of the people in our audience are solos. If you were trying to do this as part of a firm, it’s a lot more complex.” –RM“The amount of money I would have paid to not have to go to the DMV was in the low four figures.” –JS“If you created this subscription service in a certain way, you might find that it’s not your current clients that are interested in it. It’s a different kind of client.” –RM Related Links:Implementing Value Pricing by Ron BakerThe Soul of Enterprise

Are you ready to move from execution to strategy?Talking PointsHow to get out of execution when you get stuck3 layers of strategyWhat would cause someone to want to move from execution to strategyWhen the client suggests features that won’t workHow to sell and price strategyOpportunity costSeparating clients who are interested in strategy from those who aren’tWhy people in the strategy space are neededDeveloping the language to get more strategy clientsIf you’re an authority, you’re likely to attract a lot of people who want your advice, opinions, and plansIt’s more difficult to be an authority if you’re all about executionWhether or not you have to keep consultingWhy you don’t need to know 100%Quotable Quotes“There is an execution piece and there is a strategy piece, and you can think about any place along that curve, you can set your business.” –RM“Strategy is probably one of the most misused words that I get questions about.” –JS“Don’t pretend you’re doing strategy when that’s not what you were hired for.” –JS“I’m going to argue that we have a real need right now for people in the strategy space.” –RM 

Get ready to specialize!Talking PointsFocusing on a smaller market may seem counterintuitive, but establishing a niche worksHorizontal specializationIt’s easy to think of horizontal specialization firstPitfalls of thinking too much about yourselfConsider trainingPlatform specializationHow platform specialization differs from horizontal specializationPiggybacking off of a platform’s marketingVertical specializationNiches that you can ownClients are more concerned about competence than whether you work for competitorsDemographic specializationPower of demographic specialization if done correctlyHow demographic specialization can creep up on youPsychographic specializationWhat psychographic specialization meansAttributes of your ideal clientsQuotable Quotes“Trying to sell anything to everyone is like selling nothing to nobody.” –JS“You can be excited about a trucking company. You might have a story to tell about why you’re excited about that.” –RM“The better the website, the better the leads.” –RM“I think it’s pretty clear that in the beginning, you’re thinking way more about yourself, and then as you get to the end you’re thinking way more about the other person.” –JS

Who do you need on your team?Talking PointsThe different categories of assistants you needThe right handHow many of the things an assistant could be doing are you doing yourself?Your cheerleadersYour drill sargeantsCoachesPeer groupsA few sagesGrowing through reading books, listening to podcasts, and finding personalities that communicate in a way you understandBinging on contentCrossover between sages and brandingChanneling people you admireTaking inspiration from someone vs. copying or impersonatingRecognizing the ways in which you are differentCharging for the things that come easily to youQuotable Quotes“I think it all boils down to what you feel you need to push you, or to keep the momentum going if you’ve already got it started—you just want to keep feeding the fire.” –RM“When you’re at an inflection point of some kind, it can be paralyzing.” –JS“When you get right down to the content, the core content, there’s not that much different between Gary V. and Seth Godin. But there’s a huge difference between them.” –JS“Who do you really admire in terms of the content that you absorb? Because that tells me a lot.” –RMRelated LinksCompany of One by Paul JarvisSeth Godin

What can you do when your niche turns into a rut?Talking PointsAre ruts always bad?What to do when you feel stuckNarrowing your niche may help you get out of a rutImportance of picking the right nicheHow to identify the group that you’re trying to serveLooking beyond the edges of your rutYour unique twist on your specializationThinking more broadly about your skillsBeing adamant about both your audience and your service might get you stuckConsider your systems and habits and whether they’re working for youThe ten-day systems challengeWhen you need to fire a clientWorking with clients you likeExperimenting with new tacticsQuotable Quotes“It may be that your niche is still too broad.” –RM“The niche isn’t just who you’re serving and what industry it’s in. It’s all those other things that are how you uniquely bring yourself to market with your audience.” –RM“I’m against time sheets. I’m not against time tracking.” –JS“The engagement will not last forever. You don’t want it to. That means you’re not growing.” –JS

Are you wrestling with imposter syndrome?Talking PointsWhy you feel imposter syndromeUsing your fears like a compassThe authority mindsetTaking feedbackRecognizing when something is a learning experienceDeciding what’s best for your audience and how to have the maximum impactFeeling uncomfortable is a sign that you’re going in the right directionThe confidence that comes with overcoming imposter syndromeForming habits that force you to put yourself out thereThe difference when your ego isn’t on the lineGetting nervous about a pitchQuotable Quotes“If you want things to be better you have to change something.” –JS“It’s harder to break through with your ideas and your content if you’re holding back.” –RM“If nothing you’re doing is scary, that makes me nervous.” –JS“Who wants to work with a know-it-all anyways? We love to work with people who ask us questions.” –RM

Are you ready for the publishing challenge?Talking PointsThe 5 in 5 publishing challengeHow writer’s block relates to your audienceDeveloping the discipline to create habitsWhat to write aboutBeginner’s mindFiguring out what pain your expertise can solveExperimenting with different marketsPassing on your knowledgeDifferent ways to leverage what you doScheduling interviewsAudience preferences for different mediumsHow long published work should beNarrowing it to one ideaQuotable Quotes“If you feel like you have writer’s block, double-check that you really have a clear idea of who you’re writing for.” –JS“I would say, go with where your passion and your heart is, related to your area of expertise.” –RM“Find pains, find questions, and just answer them.” –JS“I think the key is to just put it out there and to have the feeling that we all have when you hit that publish button.”–RM

How can you get better clients?Talking PointsGetting clients who will trust you more and pay you moreWhat can happen when you take on a bad clientImproving your client base as you goNarrowing your nicheHow taking on clients outside of your niche may affect your businessHow your point of view and messaging informs which clients you attractBeing responsive to how your target reacts to your messageMake a list of dream clientsDraw boundaries of who you won’t work forFigure out the best way to get your message outImposter syndromeAsking business outcome questionsDefining better clientsNot playing small ballStrategizingKnowing what to say no toLooking at what people you admire are doingKnowing what it is that you do bestQuotable Quotes“Every client you take on, you want it to be better than the last one.” –JS“Each one will teach you something that you didn’t know before about how to attract that client.” –RM“Courage is acting even though you feel the fear.” –JS“We have to have this headspace that says we’re not going to play small ball. This is the major leagues.” –RM

Seth Godin joins us to explain the generosity of authority.Talking PointsWhat “authority” means to SethThe first things that Seth thinks of when it comes to funding a missionTwo different gamesWriting every dayLevels of freelancingImposter syndromePodcastingAkimbo workshopsComfort zone vs. safety zonePublishingWord of mouthWriting a bookFinding your alignmentMaking a decisionQuotable Quotes“The more they charge, the more authority they actually get.” –SG“If you win the game to be the most generous, then you earn the privilege in the area where you seek to have authority, to exchange status.” –SG“If you’re not feeling like an imposter, I would argue, you’re not working hard enough.” –SG“If you think your secret is what people are paying for, you’re crazy.” –SGRelated LinksSeth GodinAkimbo WorkshopsTranscriptJonathan StarkHello and welcome to the Business of Authority. I'm Jonathan Stark.Rochelle MoultonAnd I'm Rochelle Moulton.Jonathan StarkAnd today we are joined by legendary marketer Seth Godin. Seth, welcome to the show.Seth GodinThank you for having me.Jonathan StarkThank you so much for joining us. I'm very excited about this conversation. I've been thinking about it for two years, so I'll try not to pummel you with random questions that are too weird but the first we want to start with, given the show title, it's the Business of Authority, what does the word authority mean to you in the context of a business?Seth GodinThat's a great place to start. I don't think it means what most people use the word authority to mean. Authority usually means what a manager has, which is power, which is the ability to get other people to do what want even if they don't want to do it. I would say that in your case what we're actually talking about is reputation. What we're talking about is a variation of trust, which is trust to the power of provability, meaning not only do I trust you but I can go to my partners, my bosses and my employees and insist that they trust you as well because you have earned that through your reputation.Jonathan StarkYes, I love the distinction. It's not the boss kind of authority. You will "respect my authorita", fabulous. Okay, so what are first things that come to mind when someone is starting to establish authority? I think it happens over time, has a lot to do with, like you said, trust and that trust has to exist in something and that something is the audience. So, you're on a mission and authority is on a mission. They're moving toward a vision that they see in the future. They're trying to lead people to that goal. What are the first things that come to mind when you think about funding that mission by building a business around it so that you can keep doing it?Seth GodinThere was a pre-question which I'll do first. Yes, as you pointed out it is in the eye of the beholder. There's a funny joke, being headed executive gets bumped off a flight on Delta and marches up to the counter and says, "Do you know who I am?", and the person behind the counter gets on the PA system and says, "Medical alert, we have someone with amnesia at the front desk. He doesn't know who he is." If she doesn't know who you are then it doesn't matter who you are and this is the McKinsey Trap. The McKinsey Trap is you're getting paid X number of dollars at McKinsey and you realize they're marking you up 4X, so you quit McKinsey and go out on your own and you can't even get paid a quarter of what you used to get paid. Well, it's the same consultant giving the same advice, so why is there a 16X difference in the comp. The reason is because when you hire McKinsey you are not buying advice. You are buying the privilege of telling the board what McKinsey said and that's what they sell. That is my current definition of useful authority in this case. It has nothing to do with proving you are right and everything to do with the mantel that you have earned in the eye of the consumer.Seth GodinNow, what that gets us is to is this whole riff about status roles because status roles are everything in our culture. Who's up? Who's down? Who gets to eat first? Why is someone dating a supermodel? Why did you buy that car? What neighborhood do you live in? All of these are status exchanges where we are trying to buy safety, or leverage or authority by acquisition of something that gives us a sense of status, so McKinsey maintains their status by acting like a diva, by not making sales calls, by charging extra. The more they charge the more authority they actually get and so while we may be tempted to hustle to get our authority, to somehow prove that we are right we are actually giving up authority when you do that because in our culture the signals that come with authority are not the same as the signals that come from the desperate chase of proving you're right.Jonathan StarkYeah and that's something we talk about all the time. I think the tricky part for people who are listening who probably agree with that, it's like, "But you can't start off by acting like a diva", right? I mean, that doesn't seem to track. There has to be this sort of progression where there's trust built and then later when you're IDEO and you've got every Fortune 500 logo on your homepage and they're all amazing brands, at a certain point it feels like you reach a critical mass and you can maintain that authority position with these status games that you just referred to. Is that the way you start though? You just go out on your own and you play hard to get with your clients. That doesn't seem like it would work.Seth GodinCorrect, another great insight. In fact, there's two games and I just described the second game. The first game is a completely different game. It is not a junior version of the other game. It is the game of who can be the most generous, that if you win the game to be the most generous then you earn the privilege in the area where you seek to have authority to exchange status.Seth GodinSo, I'll use my example. Not because I have an enormous amount of authority because I haven't sought to do that but you blog every day for a thousand days in a row. That's free. You make YouTube videos. That's free but then someone calls you up to give a speech. That's not free. That's expensive and what that means is you don't give speeches for a while because you're not willing to give a $500.00 speech because people who have something to say don't give $500.00 speeches. You will give a free speech at Ted. You will organize your own conference. Organizing a conference is generous but if you want me to get on a plane and come give a speech to your organization, that's expensive and I'm fine if you don't want to buy it because I got other things I can do that are generous instead.Jonathan StarkWell, that tracks with our normal story here, that's for sure. You may or may not know this but both Rochelle and I are daily emailers inspired by you and a friend of mine, Philip Morgan. It's transformative on your business. It's not just in the sense of you're "giving away the farm" so to speak in a particular format and being generous and sharing the ideas, honestly I think of it every day as "who can I help today," how am I going to help them, what can I write today that's going to help the kind of person who's on my list. That's great and it leads to all the things we're talking about, the expensive speeches for example, but the thing about it that it is not obvious from the outside is that it makes the writer better, not just communicating but just like a deeper thinking because you get... After the first three months of writing every day you've burned through all of the trite, obvious stuff and you need to start really digging deep looking for-Seth GodinExactly.Jonathan StarkYeah, it's amazing. It is absolutely amazing. It sounds terrifying to people when we suggest that they write every day about a particular, with a particular worldview let's say, not necessarily particular focus but like a worldview and around an idea but it terrifies people. They think like, "Oh no, I'll never be able to keep up with it. I'll run out of things to write." Is there anything you can say to inspire people to perhaps take that leap, take that... It feels risky to people that are scared of it.Seth GodinFor sure, I have a riff about the Boston Marathon, which is if you hire a running coach you will not say to her, "Teach me how to run the Boston Marathon without getting tired." In fact, everyone who runs the Boston Marathon is tired. The question is where do you put the tired. If you want to run a marathon you have to be prepared to put the tired somewhere. Well, if you want to be an independent voice with authority you're going to have to do things that feel risky. If you're not prepared to do things that feel risky you should go get a job.Rochelle MoultonPerfect.Jonathan StarkYes, correct. I want to shift gears a little bit and talk about something I heard you say. I think it was in the marketing seminar. I went through the marketing seminar. It's fabulous. I highly recommend it. I think it was in there that you described yourself as a freelancer at one point.Seth GodinAnd today as well. I'm back at it, yeah.Jonathan StarkOkay, so I want to talk about that because you're not really like any freelancer I know and I know a lot of freelancers. So, we have this mental framework here on the show about the progression from zero to authority if that's the path that you want to go down. Not everyone does but if it is the path you want to go down with the folks we work with it starts off as a technician who has this skill that they apply on a time basis for it's like a mercenary type of thing, like, "Hey, do you need some code? I'll write some code. It took me 10 hours. Give me a thousand bucks." Then it moves to an area where they're more advisory, consultative, where they're an expert at writing code, or copywriting or photography and they can teach it, or guide people or decrease risk for clients who have a big project that involves that thing. They're sort of moving up the food chain in terms of applying their expertise but they're not applying it directly. They're advising about their expertise.Jonathan StarkThen there's this level above that which we would call an authority where it's more of a thought leadership place where there's an audience that's following you to a destination and there are business models that seem to line up with those three levels. The first one is what I would normally call freelancer where you're a mercenary. You're a "free lance" who is available for hire and it's not really... They take any comer who's like, "Oh, someone wants to hire me to write code or write copy. Great, let's do it." Then this middle level, the expert, aligns up with consultant a lot of times or trainer and then the top tier authority a lot of times lines up with speaker, talking head on TV, author. Author's right in the word, so when I heard you say that you saw yourself as a freelancer rather than an entrepreneur, that didn't really track with me-Seth GodinWell, we have a semantic difference here, so I think your three levels are very smart but they are three levels of freelancing and let me make the distinction because of all the single sentences I have uttered on stage more people have told me this has changed their life than just about anything. Freelancers and entrepreneurs are different. Freelancers get paid when they work. Entrepreneurs build something bigger than themselves, so Larry Ellison is an entrepreneur. He does not write code. He does not make sales calls. In fact, Larry Ellison's only job at Oracle is to hire people to do jobs he invents. That's his only job and if he finds himself doing any work whatsoever he's doing something to harm the shareholders.Seth GodinNow, I have been an entrepreneur. I have built companies that changed parts of the world and I didn't like it. I was good at it but I didn't like it because I like doing things with my own two hands. If you read a blog post, I wrote it. If I was an entrepreneur that would be wrong. I should hire someone to write my blog post. If you take a workshop with Akimbo, I created it with my own two hands and then there are people who I think I work for, they don't work for me, who run Akimbo. That's not my job. That's their job and so I'm finding joy by doing the work. Entrepreneurs shouldn't do the work. Jack Dorsey should not be touching code, et cetera.Seth GodinAll right, so how do you move up as a freelancer? Well, the way I describe your three tiers is this. You cannot move up as a freelancer by working more hours. The only way to move up is to get better clients. What does it mean to have better clients? Clients who trust you more. Clients who challenge you. Clients who give you more leverage. Clients who pay you better. Better clients will get you better clients because your book will look better. Your work will look better and so the quest, if you are on the authority track, can be defined as what work do I need to do today to get better clients a month from now.Seth GodinIf you're just working for hire for anybody, JUUL, some cigarette company, it's not going to help you get better clients, so turn them down. Partly because it would be a moral failing to do the work but mostly because it's going to get in the way of you getting better clients and what I find, and we run a freelancers workshop so I've talked to hundreds and hundreds of freelancers about this, is the fear kicks in and this is the other riff which is imposter syndrome. People say, "What do I do with imposter syndrome?" The women who tell me this think only women have it. The men who tell me this think everyone has it but imposter syndrome is this idea that you feel like a fraud and what should I do with this. I don't deserve better clients. I feel like a fraud. Well, and a quick little aside, I used to have a record label and I did it as an experiment. I gave all the money to the artists and one of the artists, a married couple who lived in a van, and they would drive from town to town. They would play at the easily booked coffee shop. Then after they'd been there for two nights they'd drive to the next town.Seth GodinI took them aside and I said, "Guys, you got to stay in town. Stay in a town and work your way up because it's a better audience. They pay better. The mics work better. Everything is better" but I could see from the look in their eyes. They didn't think they deserved to play at Passim because they felt like imposters. My answer is, "Of course you feel like an imposter. If you are doing work that matters you are an imposter. You can't certify that you've done this exact thing before and it's guaranteed to work. You can't, so because you're a good person and an honest person inside you feel like a fraud because you're acting as if, because you're describing a future that isn't here yet and if you're not feeling like an imposter I would argue you are not working hard enough."Rochelle MoultonWow.Jonathan StarkYeah and by the way, nice shout out to Cambridge. I like that. So, there's a thing in the pricing world, my focus is pricing, and there's a thing in the pricing world called "selling to your own wallet" which this reminds me of, where it's not the same thing but it's similar where someone who can't imagine that they would pay X dollars for a watch or whatever. They imagine that no one would. I think that's fairly common. I don't think that's a shocking revelation, like "Wow, I can't believe somebody would pay a million dollars for Paul Newman's Rolex, that's just insanity" but someone paid it. Is it insane? Is it not insane? It doesn't really matter. The problem is when you start to apply that to your own business and you think, "I can't imagine anybody paying me $10,000.00 a month to maybe pick up the phone once in a while." Well, you better start imagining it if that's where you want to go and you can't just expect people to start writing you $10,000.00 checks every month if you're not delivering value, so you do have to figure out that puzzle. How can I deliver more than $10,000.00 of value every month to someone by just picking up the phone when they call?Jonathan StarkThe paralysis comes from not believing that they're worthy of that, that their expertise is not actually that valuable to anyone because they don't value it as much as they should themselves.Seth GodinYeah, that's a great point and you know the thing is most of the people you and I, the three of us talk to, don't make their own clothes. If someone came to you and said, "You must make your own clothes." It is not allowed anymore. It's immoral to make your own clothes. We would be annoyed and offended. How dare you? If you stood out front of the fancy watch store, and this is probably a worthwhile exercise and told people on their way in they're not allowed to go in to buy a watch. They're not allowed to buy a wedding ring. Go to a wedding that costs $50,000.00 and start heckling the bride and groom. You're not allowed. No, have some empathy, right? Have some empathy to realize that different people will make different choices about how they're going to spend their money. Your job is once they've made that choice how can you satisfy that need and so when I go out for my anniversary dinner I am not hoping the restaurant will charge me less. I'm hoping that we will have a better time, so that's the restaurateur's job is not to lower the price but to increase what I came for.Seth GodinSo, I think it's a little bit of a trap to say, "I hope I'll get paid a lot of money just to answer the phone." I think the right question is how can I create an environment where the people who hire me on retainer see their career's turbocharged because their bosses are so impressed that they're able to call me whenever they want. What would I have to do to make those conditions possible?Jonathan StarkI want to shift gears yet again and talk about podcasting for a second. We mentioned earlier sharing your expertise freely in particular ways and then charging a premium in other formats, say podcasting versus speaking in person. Geez, it's been like five seasons now of the Akimbo podcast I think and I think you've been on a million, maybe a thousand, thousands of podcasts but the only one I was aware of that you publishing was like a recording of a course of some kind or a workshop that you did years ago. Why that change? What made you... Is it something about podcasting? To me, it feels like it might be competing with books as a primary source of authority and then there's this question of self-publish versus traditionally published books. How do you see podcasts fitting into the authority landscape?Seth GodinIt's important to note that in addition to being a hypocrite I'm not a very good role model. The reason is because this is my hobby, that this work that I am doing every day... I'm 59 years old. I was born on the right day to the right parents. I won the internet lottery. This is my hobby and so people who try to do what I'm doing because they think I've thought through it, how to maximize something, are going to make a big mistake. Do as I say, not as I do because when I say it I'm describing what I wish I had heard when I was 30. But, I could do all sorts of things to make more money than I make now. Podcasting was an interesting problem five years ago. I'm a new media scholar. That's what I focus on. This is a form of new media. It's disruptive. It's interesting. It's personal so I came up with a podcast but I didn't want to do it because it's too much work and because there are all sorts of other personal things I had about it. Then some podcasting people called me up and called my bluff. They said, "We have a hunch you've figured out how to do a podcast but we'll pay you" and I could do a lot of good with that money, so I'm thinking...Seth GodinWell, now I'm stealing money from poor children if I don't do this podcast. I can't keep whining about it. I either got to do it or never speak of it again and so I like these people and I said, "Sure, this sounds like something to add to my hobby list." I will say though, as the person who founded the podcasting fellowship, that in fact, surprise, surprise, it gets you more speaking gigs and I make more from speaking gigs than I make from writing books, that in fact the 100,000 plus people who listen to the podcast prefer my voice to my blog posts and that means that they're likely to want to engage with other changes I'm trying to make in the world but that's not why I made it. I made it because I'm a little bit of an egomaniac. I thought I had something to say and I like the sound of my own voice.Jonathan StarkWell, I love it. I highly recommend people listen to Akimbo and it's not overly produced, maybe like an NPR is super, super heavily produced but you definitely have a lot of sound editing. There's a lot going on there. I applaud you because that is a lot of work. We try and keep things simple here over at the Business of Authority. No music, we've got a no music rule.Jonathan StarkYou mentioned the podcast fellowship and then there's the marketing seminar. I think you're up to the eighth one. Tell us a bit about how the Akimbo workshops fit into your master plan. I know you seem like an educator. To me, you've got that great talk about what are schools for. As someone who homeschools their kids I completely resonate with that. For you, is the workshop approach the way to have the biggest impact or is just a hobby and it's just something you like to do?Seth GodinNo, this is not a hobby. This is too much work to be a hobby. I do the workshops because I'm a teacher and this is the single, most effective form of teaching I have ever done by a lot. A book can sell a quarter of a million or a million copies and I will change X number of lives where X is a number less than a hundred, maybe it's a thousand. Whereas, when a thousand people take one of our workshops we will change the lives of 500 of them and not all completely but really deeply because doing the work, doing the work together, doing the work in public, is so different than listening to a podcast or an audio book, so I'm still doing the other stuff drip by drip, day by day but when I saw what the altMBA was able to do for people I knew that it would be malpractice to not try to push it forward and then I encourage lots of other people to copy what we're doing because if enough people copy it then I don't have to do it anymore.Jonathan StarkYeah, me included. I don't know if you even remember but I emailed you after I went through TMS and I was like, "This format that you've come up with is genius. The combination of the cohort with the lessons dripped out over time and sort of people working through it together, more like study groups and online", yeah, it's great. You're welcome. That's where the pricing seminar came from because my focus is pricing.Jonathan StarkSo, your riff on education is like what's education for. Are we trying to make kids into factory workers? It seems like that's kind of how it's set up, at least how it was setup and there's still a lot of hangover from that. That ties into a concept in the Icarus Deception which absolutely blew my mind about the comfort zone versus the safety zone. I don't need to tell it. Could you riff on the comfort zone versus safety zone and how that fits with education?Seth GodinAnytime you riff on a book that I wrote eight years ago you do need to remind me but in this case I remember.Jonathan StarkGood.Seth GodinSo, why are there so many victims of massive change in our world? Why is it that when the world changes people who are supposed to be alert, whether it's Western Union, or the old version of Microsoft... I mean, Steven Ballmer is supposed to know what's going to happen next. That's his job and the same thing's true when we think about people going through school or graduating in enormous amounts of debt. Didn't they see it? Why is there so much pain? Well, the answer is because we have a narrative about where we would be safe. Let's call that our comfort zone. The comfortable thing is to go to a famous college and go into debt to get a piece of paper that will guarantee us a safe job going forward but that is not actually a safe place. It just feels safe. It is simply comfortable and this idea that safe is risky and vice versa is only present when the world changes. When the world is the way the world is then those two are aligned. Safety and comfort among rational people is the same but when the world is changing that's when we make mistakes.Seth GodinSo, how will we use our discomfort as a compass to point us to where we will ultimately be safe? I believe that every good person in the book publishing world is going to be out of a job in 20 years and that's because they are doing things that are comfortable right now, not things that are safe. What would be safe is for them to connect directly with readers. What would be safe is for them to explore. They should be in my business, right? They should be running live events. They should be running these interactions, on, and on and on, because that's the safe thing to do. It's just not comfortable and as a result good, hardworking people are going to slam into a wall because one day the backlist isn't going to pay all the bills. The end.Seth GodinTo come back to the listeners of this august podcast. There are all sorts of things you conventional do as a freelancer, as a consultant, that are comfortable but I got to tell you in a world where everyone is a click away and where Zoom is a click away they're not safe anymore.Jonathan StarkRight, I get it all the time from students where I'll make some suggestion that, "Here's a tactic that you could try. It fits with our strategy. We've defined an objective for you. We see where you want to go." Tactics, they come and go. You change them. You experiment with them. You see what's going to work different for different people and you can get so much pushback, like change the headline on your site a little bit. Oh, that seems too risky. It's like, "Well, it's not like it's a lion." What's going to happen? Lightening bolts are going to shoot out of the keyword? Risky, how? It's 100% the comfort versus risk thing, so when I read that my head exploded. I was like, "Oh, right, that's exactly what it is."Jonathan StarkIn my consulting business I saw the same thing. When I was doing mobile consulting 2010, '11, '12, these big corporations... I wrote a book and corporations were like, "Yeah, we need this guy. Come in and tell us what to do." I would come in and say, "Well, here's the situation. This is the way it's going to be in five years for sure. Mobile phones are going to be the computing platform. That's it. So, get there. It's going to take a while. You're a huge organization. You need to do these things to get there" and they wouldn't. It was one of the big reasons I left consulting was because it was like one time where I felt like I was like, "Wow, I really know what to do here, like this" and their competitors did it and now they're suffering, the whole thing. They were so, like for a big organization they were so fearful of doing anything that wasn't the norm in a context where everything was changing and you end up with Blockbuster, and Tower Records and all of these companies just disappearing overnight. Things like Airbnb, and Uber and Netflix seemingly out of nowhere but they were enabled by this mobile platform. It's unbelievable.Seth GodinI agree with everything you just said except for the last sentence.Jonathan StarkOkay.Seth GodinIt's totally believable! It would be stunning if it wasn't true.Jonathan StarkSure.Rochelle MoultonActually I'd like to get Seth's view on this. Comfortable versus safe, if you're an authority or you're on the authority track, you're consulting, you're freelancing and you've got a big idea and you think it's a book. What's the comfortable versus safe approach for publishing or producing a book now?Seth GodinOkay, so we're going to go as quick as we can through this book thing. First thing, a book is a Proustian souvenir that for many people of many ages but all of us over 30 means something. To some people it means school and it is to be avoided. To some people it means status. To some people it means wisdom, a level of achievement. Just the presence of the thing is different than saying, "I took all of these ideas and tweeted them", that the object itself has a value.Seth GodinNow, publishing is not the same as printing. Anyone can print. It is cheap. Publishing is about taking financial risk to get people who are unaware of an idea to become aware of it and pay money for it. That's what publishers do. The number of actual publishers in the US is very small and the imprimatur that they provide certainly has value but less than it used to because if you can print a document that looks just like what they would do to the uninitiated it is the same thing. Now, this leads to one of many pitfalls.Seth GodinPitfall number one is you do the comfortable thing, which is you cut little, tiny corners that you don't think anyone will notice and your self-published book is obviously self-published and then not only haven't you succeeded, you've failed because you're so desperate you're self-publishing your book in a pretend effort at authority. So, it would have been better if you had done nothing.Seth GodinWe did a book for charity last year and it took my creative director and I, between us, 400 hours to make it look like a real book. It's not something you just upload to CreateSpace and you're done.Seth GodinNow, when you get a book then you've come to the conclusion that now you need to make it a bestseller because that's where the status really lies. Well, what's obvious to anyone in the industry is you can buy your slot on the New York Times Bestseller list now, so it's now worth nothing. Don't even bother because everyone's doing it. They're all buying their way. It doesn't mean nearly as much as you think and so it's just this huge distraction where we believe we are about to be judged so we spend an unreasonable amount of time and money for this signifier that's not actually much of a signifier at all.Seth GodinThe real signifier is did someone other than you tell me about your book. That is the signifier because now the book is serving its true function which is it is a permanent container for the ideas of a single person. If someone tells me about your book, your book has just increased your authority. What we have to begin with is you have to write a book that other people will choose to talk about in a way that gives you authority. That is really hard to do. Do that first. Don't worry about the tactics of how can I get Adrian Zackheim to publish my book at Penguin in a thinly veiled attempt to become seen as some sort of authority.Seth GodinSo, when I published Purple Cow I was on the outs. My previous publisher, Simon and Schuster, had fired me because my book before that they didn't understand and it did very poorly and so I self-published Purple Cow years before self-publishing was easy and I put it in a milk carton-Jonathan StarkJust to make it easier on yourself.Seth GodinI could tell you an hour's worth of stories about that but the punchline was if you bought the 10 pack or the 12 pack of the milk carton you gave it away and the act of you giving it away is where I got my authority from and it became the bestselling marketing book of the decade because people talked about it, not because my publisher which I ended up acquiring, did a good job of publishing it. That's silly. They don't do a good job of publishing anything.Seth GodinI guess what my rant is about is you're already in one business. Don't try to get yourself into another business of being a publisher. You're probably going to be terrible at it. If you're going to make a printed artifact open your wallet, blow out the dust and spend the money to make it magnificent and the way you do that is by going to the bookstore, finding a book that already has authority, handing it to your printer/designer and saying, "It has to look exactly like this", same paperweight, same paper stock, same typeface, same trim size, same embossing. Copy this. All your ideas, all your words, no one cares about that. It's got to look and feel right.Seth GodinOkay, so then you say, not how do I get everyone in America to read this. Everyone in America isn't going to read it. You say, "Who are the 250 people who if they read this and told someone else I would be on my way and then you, or even better a more prestigious colleague of yours, send the book free to those 250 people. If those 250 people after getting the book don't talk about you didn't right a good enough book. The end.Rochelle MoultonWow.Jonathan StarkYes, thank you for that.Rochelle MoultonLove it.Jonathan StarkMy takeaway from that is what's important is word of mouth, not a book. Is that fair?Seth GodinYeah, the book is simply a way to create an artifact that works harder for you every day than you could do without it.Jonathan StarkOkay, so where my brain is going is, is the word of mouth of, "Hey, you should listen to Akimbo" or "Hey, you should listen to the Business of Authority", is that kind of word of mouth... Do you think that carries the same kind of weight because I'm starting to think it does?Seth GodinIt might carry even more. It depends on whether your book can enjoy word of mouth without people reading it.Jonathan StarkWow.Rochelle MoultonThat's the challenge.Seth GodinThomas Piketty has benefited from this. His book, Capital, is the most unread book published that year. We know this for a fact. If we multiply the number of people who purchased it times the percentage in the Kindle that was indicated that they read, it had more unread pages than any other book of the year but-Jonathan StarkThat's brutal.Seth GodinYeah but it's true and after reading 10 pages you knew everything you needed to know to talk about the book and so the book served its purpose. The book was not a ripoff. You got your $30.00's worth which is after reading 10 pages you knew enough to be able to talk with some confidence about the inequity in our society and recommend that people who disagreed with you read the whole book.Jonathan StarkYeah, it's painful actually but it makes sense. I feel like it gets back to the status a little bit, like you want to say you read it or you want to be on your bookshelf. You want to be the kind of person who you think agrees with it. You're more buying it as an artifact or a conversation piece than an educational type of thing.Seth GodinRight, so one thing you could do if you were in the pricing business and you wanted to be the most expensive pricing consultant is you could take everything you know, put it into a loose leaf binder, only make 400 of them, hand number each one and give them to your best clients with extracting a promise that they will not make copies and share with other people. Then they will and once people start getting this priceless notebook which is handed from person to person they will realize it's too much work for them to go through all of it. They'll call you and hire you.Jonathan StarkI 100% agree with that. That would totally work. That is so funny. I don't know. I feel like we're bashing books a little bit here.Seth GodinNot at all, books have been very, very good to me. Just use them for the right reason. That's all I'm saying.Jonathan StarkYeah and we talked about that in the past where it's like if you're going to write a book, both of us, our general advice is first decide who it's for. Not just like, "I want to write a book with this title." It's like who's this for. Who's going to be transformed by this? Then start working out, okay, now that I know who it's for here's the way I need to deliver this information. It seems obvious to me because I've got the curse of knowledge. How am I going to deliver it to this particular person in the most effective way that is going to turn that light bulb on for them?Jonathan StarkOkay, so that's how I would approach writing any book. It needs to be good for the reader but then we also categorize into where do you see this book fitting into your business. Is this going to be a 300 page business card that you use to get consulting clients or is this going to be like a revenue stream that you want to actually be bringing in money every month from selling this directly?Seth GodinI think it's the third one.Jonathan StarkOkay.Seth GodinYou only said two. The third one is I would like to change my pocket of the culture to create an environment that helps the people I seek to serve and that also allows me to be a participant in how it moves forward.Jonathan StarkOkay, that's fair. I wouldn't use a book for that though.Seth GodinWell, it depends. If you're Bruce Schneier and you're the leading computer security expert then your book on that, or if you're Don Norman and you're the leading expert on user-centric design, or you're the guys at... I can go down the list of the people you've heard of who have actually changed a culture by earning the privilege to change the culture by having the chops to put it in writing and say this. They gave away everything they knew because you have to give away everything you know because if you think your secret is what people are paying for you're crazy.Rochelle MoultonI was just thinking. It made me think of something I heard you say, Seth, that writing a book is a generous act.Seth GodinYeah.Rochelle MoultonDo you feel it was generous in some of those examples? Can you talk more about that generosity?Seth GodinThe generous act to write a good book and what that means is that the reader cannot tell what your incentive is other than you're trying to make things better. In the business world we can sniff it out immediately, when you are... I'm not going to mention this super agent because that's why they write the book, so I would mention them but if it's just one, self-aggrandizing anecdote after another, well yeah, now we know why you wrote the book but we got nothing out of it. But, the magic of a book is... I wrote the Icarus Deception however many years ago and it's still doing things for people with no incremental effort on my part. Another reader costs me nothing. The fact that I make it huller, maybe the advanced learn or not. I have no idea. I don't keep track but that's not why a good author talks about her book. A good author talks about her book because she knows she's probably never going to get another royalty check but if another person would read the book things would be better.Rochelle MoultonYeah, it's that transformation that you're trying to make with the idea inside your book.Seth GodinLet's get back to I have no idea how many people are listening to this but my guess is that 92% of them act in selfish, short-term ways because they're afraid, because they're afraid they don't have anything really important to say because they're afraid if they blow up their industry by giving away the secrets they will be ostracized because they don't want to be on the spot because they don't actually want be the leader.Seth GodinAnd so what they do is they think small. They play small ball. They try to transact and that's why they're still frustrated. It's interesting. My son gets Dental Town magazine and Dental Town magazine, if you have any fear of the dentist you should not read Dental Town magazine because there are articles about basically how to under serve your patients so they'll pay you more.Jonathan StarkOh man.Rochelle MoultonOuch.Seth GodinAnd, you don't want dentists doing that. You want a dentist who decides that the best way to be a successful dentist is to get better dental patients and to make it so that they don't have to come very often because if you do those two things they will talk about you, there'll be a waiting list, and on, and on and on. On the other hand if you're trying to churn the file, get people to get a cleaning every four weeks instead of every 50 weeks and you're justifying it because there's one little footnote that says more cleanings equals better healthcare, yeah. Well, would you do it for free because if you wouldn't do it for free don't tell me you're doing it out of kindness. Whereas, I feel very confident in saying I would write books for free and I do because I am not writing them to get clients. I don't have any clients. I am doing it because I want to change the culture.Jonathan StarkYeah and that's a core premise of this podcast. We've done a bunch of episodes on what's your big idea, why do you get out of bed in the morning, what is your purpose here, why bother. If it's just this self-promotional act then that's not interesting and it probably won't work anyway. But the book thing, it's more like, "Okay, I've got this mission that I'm on. I need to fund it somehow and maybe a book is the way to do it. Maybe it's not. Maybe the book is going to get me consulting gigs and I'll do the book for free or I'll give it away."Jonathan StarkI get this pushback a lot of times where people are exactly like you're saying, where they're like, "Yeah, I'd love to change the world but the people who I want to help can't afford me" or "My spouse won't let me do this because he or she's afraid that we will lose our standard of living because I've got this great job with Google, or Facebook or something and I like this idea of going out and helping people do whatever the thing is that they're passionate about." It could be spouse. It could be parents. It could be friends. Everybody's kind of like, "Well, that won't work" or "How are you going to keep making $300,000.00 a year? How are you going to keep making even $50,000.00 a year by doing X, Y and Z" and maybe it's imagined or maybe it's real but I get tons of people who have that fear. I don't think that's completely a comfort thing. Being willing to throw away your standard of living seems a little... That's a pretty tall order.Seth GodinI'm going to interrupt on the last point. I have worked with and know people who's standard of living is $3.00 a day and those people were making three, or five or $10.00 a day. I will not change places with them but on a good day they are happier than you or me and everyone on a good day is happier than someone else. The question is always going to be compared to what. If you're willing to turn off cable TV, eat rice and beans, move to a small little rental on the outskirts of town and ride a bicycle because it will give you the freedom to change your part of the world for the better then go do it. But if you're not, then stop pretending you want to change your corner of the world for the better and just go back to work.Seth GodinThe problem is when we're out of alignment between the two, where we want to leave McKinsey, get paid what we got paid at McKinsey, only work with non-profits, only work with clients we're proud of and have the privilege of walking out anytime someone disagrees with us, that's out of alignment, can't happen.Jonathan StarkPerfect, yes, absolutely and you're talking to a guy who did used to be a musician and live in his van, so I totally, totally get it.Rochelle MoultonWhat if we gave Seth an opportunity to talk about what he'd like to talk about at the very end. You know who our audience is, Seth, people on this road to authority, most have independent businesses. They're trying to make a difference in the world. They want to get paid at the same time. What else would you have to say to them?Seth GodinThis is what I came to say. You don't need more time. You just need to decide. You need to decide whether you actually want to change your corner of the culture and if you do you have to find the bravery and the boldness to do it in a way that others will choose to talk about. If you want to just have a job with no boss, you already have that and then you can go find slightly better clients and that's your progression. There's nothing wrong with it but if you're taking the time to listen to two leaders as we have here my guess is you have an itch and what we know is the culture needs you to go scratch it by doing this work. That's my mission and it might be yours.Jonathan StarkWhere's the best place for people to go to find out all things Seth?Seth GodinThe workshops are all at Akimbo.com, A-K-I-M-B-O, and if you type my name into Google I'm sure you'll find more than you need.Jonathan StarkYeah, absolutely, folks, definitely check out the blog/daily mailing list. It's fabulous. Seth is the Confucius of marketing.Rochelle MoultonAnd the books, the books live forever. 10 years old, 20 years old, they're still relevant, highly readable.Seth GodinWell, thank you. That means a lot. I'm going to sign off. Go make a ruckus and thank you both for your time. I appreciate it.Jonathan StarkThanks so much, Seth.Rochelle MoultonThank you, Seth.

Talking PointsThe importance of marketing yourselfHaving a strategy for your marketing tacticsWhy you have feast and famine cyclesTarget marketsBeing specific in your marketingDistributionBuilding marketing into your routinePicking a marketing method that has the least friction for your personality and skillsAmplifying your message with social mediaUsing social media in a way that fits your brand and styleAvoiding getting sucked in by social mediaWhy a rut is a good signHow your body of work can add upHow you can leverage content that you’ve already createdMarketing as a form of teachingHow to form a marketing habitQuotable Quotes“If you’re running a business, you need to be marketing, full stop.” –JS“Until you get really specific, those doors are closed.” –RM“You may spend – especially when you first start something – as much time distributing, or even more, as you do creating the content.” –RM“I really want everyone to have a daily habit around marketing their business.” –JS

Start by answering "What's in it for me?"Talking PointsIs it lead or lede?What does it mean to bury the lead?Burying the lead in conversationUsing the pain point as your headlineKnowing when to ask the questionLetting the audience know what’s in it for themConversational emails that aren’t about contentBurying the lead means you’re not exhibiting authority and confidenceMaking sure that you’re being clear for your audienceChoosing the right audienceQuotable Quotes“Burying the lead in a conversation is just as bad an idea when you’re having a sales conversation as it is on your website.” –RM“If you know what your ideal buyer's pain is, and you can just say ‘hey, do you have this pain?’ That’s the headline.” –JS“If you do nothing else before a conversation, an email, a point on the website, the way you’re restructuring your website, you just ask from your viewer’s perspective, “what’s in it for me?” What do they get from this page?” –RM”You want to find the perfect language that will resonate with the people who you’re trying to reach, right? Well then you’re going to have to decide exactly who you're trying to reach.” –JS

Is staying solo the right choice for you?Talking PointsThe difference between “small” and “not a lot of employees”The advantages of staying soloBeing able to be very specificBuilding alliancesWays to address David and Goliath matchupsWhen you’re a solo act, your clients always get to deal with the number one personWhat soloists need to watch out forWhale clientsWhy you need to always be marketingLearning how to say a really firm noQuotable Quotes“One of the advantages of staying small is that you can compete with those big players by going super, super specific.” –JS“Big firms are made up of individual people, and those individual people may refer you!” –RM“Big firms bill by the hour, so… they like slow computers.” —JS“Some would say ABS, always be selling, as opposed to always be closing, but I think you have to always be marketing.” –RM

Talking PointsHow do you know if you’re limiting yourself?What are skills which aren’t risky and are easily priced?The difference between someone who does something or someone who knows somethingAddiction to “saving the day”Gouging versus getting money for your servicesHow the “hero’s journey” works with our clients’ storiesThe importance of delegationGuide versus “Doing It for Them”Why do when you can teach?How to keep your skills sharp when you are teachingLetting go of what’s not strategicWriting a bookCharging services for “knitting”The problems with hourly billingDeveloping your IP (intellectual property)Quotable Quotes“If you really care about your craft, and you want to spread it, you’re not going to be able to do that if you’re always a fireman putting out fires.” – JS“You don’t really want to be Luke [Skywalker] in your marketing, you want to be Obi-Wan.” – JS“There’s that shift in your mind where you don’t just have to ‘do’, you can teach, you can coach, you can show the way, you can be the guide.” – RM“If you approach your consulting as a technician, you’re never going to solve the bigger problems of the organization.” – RMLinks and ResourcesThe E-Myth Revisited by Michael GerberBuilding a StoryBrand by Donald MillerFlawless Consulting by Peter Block

Do you know how to pivot? Talking Points Taking a new direction while keeping your core business running well Taking a half-pivot Tying a new idea with a different message into your core business Getting people on your side Helping people Having confidence in your idea Marketing your new idea without losing current clients What clients do notice and what they don’t notice Quotable Quotes “You don’t want to be locked into your own success. You want to be able to go out and do something different.” –RM “All you need is like a magnifying glass, focus your energy, and boom! It’s on fire.” –JS “If you’re helping people, you will make money. It’s like a law, almost.” –JS “If you’re worried about changing your website without confusing your current clients, remember that unless you’ve got a membership site, your clients aren’t visiting your website.” –RM

The authority marketing roundup. Talking Points Speaking and writing as an authority Who your content is for What promises you’re making What’s good about starting a podcast Picking something from the speaking category that you’re comfortable with How you can make your audience feel The power of webinars Running a workshop Livestreaming Email lists Video compared to audio Writing for other publications How speaking and writing inform each other Continuous practice Social media activity Answer bombs Quotable Quotes “Whenever I’m creating something, the first thing I want to know is who’s it for?” –JS “Your opinion of yourself may be completely warped.” –RM “Just remember that people learn in different ways, and there are some people who would so much rather watch a video than read anything you’re going to write. And vice versa.” –RM “When you’re watching video, you’re watching it. You’re probably sitting down, you might be at your computer or in a chair or whatever. When you’re listening to this show, you’re probably in your life.” –JS

Are you making enough time for marketing? Talking Points How many hours a week to spend marketing How marketing can be devalued because it’s not billable Making the time for marketing How to block out marketing time Thinking of marketing as a deadline Reaching the point where marketing becomes an automatic thing Making public commitments How daily marketing can add up Farming vs. hunting Being honest about what isn’t working Quotable Quotes “It doesn’t happen if you don’t make time for it. Even when you’re not billing by the hour, it can be hard to create – I would call the marketing habit.” –JS “Marketing should always be on your mind if you have a business. That’s part of the mindset, you never let it go.” –RM “I think when you enjoy something, it’s sustainable. And if it feels like horrible, dragging work, you’re not going to do it.” –RM “If I’m scared of it, it’s probably a good idea.” –JS

Are you on the path to authority? Talking Points How pricing relates to where you are on the path to authority Different types of specialization The line between freelancer and consultant Consultant, or expert? Creating and selling a process Saying no and asking why more often Identifying the client Clarifying the end goal Moving from expert or consultant to authority Consulting as an authority Differences in authorities in different industries Behavioral habits of authorities Socializing a point of view Getting off the hamster wheel Quotable Quotes “If most of the time, you’re in your basement coding and you only talk to the client once a week, you’re not a consultant.” –JS “On this particular line of the matrix, I think it’s about a really deep knowledge.” –RM “It feels to me like the one-on-one consulting engagements that an authority would engage in would be less and less as their authority grew, because they could have a bigger impact doing something like a keynote presentation to 10,000 people.” –JS “If you’re an authority with big corporates, you need to be seen.” –RM

Why would you want to become an authority? Talking Points Main reasons to become an authority Making more money Choice of opportunities Clearly defined thought leadership Building a business model that suits the way you think and work Shorter sales cycle Simplified selling Power to influence More effectiveness The difference between an expert and a thought leader Energizing others to further the mission Momentum over the course of a career Stages along the way to being an authority Quotable Quotes “The way that an authority is in the market is automatically going to be seen as a luxury purchase.” –JS “Really, most of us didn’t get into this business to sell, and what we like about the selling process is that we’re solving a problem.” –RM “An authority to me, has an imperative to teach other people, and to keep thinking about what’s the next thing in their area of expertise.” –RM “My way or the highway, to me, is not a leader.” –JS

How can you align client experience with your brand? Talking Points How client experience relates to brand How appealing to potential clients differs from the actual client experience Disconnects in marketing What bad client experiences feel like Aligning experience with intent How technology contributes to your customers’ experiences and your brand Your responsibility to clients Customer satisfaction as a product Being professional without being fake What being a pro looks like How the clothing you choose speaks to your brand Finding clients for whom you’re a good fit Client feedback Quotable Quotes “Marketing and branding should not be about pretty pictures and telling a story that is not real.” –RM “I can feel the difference when I onboard people now, I can feel them sit back and relax.” –JS “In an ideal world we use technology in a way that makes our brands stronger, that ties people more closely to us.” –RM “My actual product is customer satisfaction.” –JS

Thinking through the ramifications of the experience economy. Talking Points How the economy has changed over time The journey from providing services to providing experiences and then transformations Customization Clients or customers as guests or aspirants How language can change the way you think about your work Creating memorable experiences Work as theater The backstage part of the theater Avoiding dissonance Quotable Quotes “If you’re like me and you want to charge for outcomes and not hours, then it’s incumbent...to try to be climbing up that progression.” –JS “Even transformation experiences, there should be some parts of those that are fun.” –RM “We’ve been taught we have to take ourselves very seriously because we’re an expert and we’re becoming an authority on whatever it is so we must be formal and we have to do all those things. But really, it is theater.” –RM “When you’re on stage it doesn’t matter if you’re in the performance or in pre or post. It all counts.” –JS

Are you in the transformation business? Talking Points Applying the concepts in The Experience Economy to small authority businesses Moving from economies to experiences and transformations How better experiences can lead to worse service How acting factors into your business model Why acting isn’t equivalent to being fake or phony Pricing transformations The stages of transformation Choosing who you work for When to reject clients Guiding transformation Quotable Quotes “We only ever change through the experiences that we have.” –JP “Understand that embracing theater as a model requires zero capital or equipment. It just requires understanding that you’re onstage.” –JP “Acting is simply being intentional about everything that you do.” –JP “With transformations, the customer is the product. The inputs you do, the activities you do, the functional things that you do, the whats – don’t matter unless the customer achieves the aspiration that they want.” –JP Joe’s Bio Co-author of The Experience Economy, Joseph Pine II is an internationally acclaimed author, speaker, and management advisor to Fortune 500 companies and entrepreneurial start-ups alike. In 1999, Joe and his partner James H. Gilmore wrote the best-selling book The Experience Economy: Work is a Theatre & Every Business a Stage, which demonstrates how goods and services are no longer enough; what companies must offer today are experiences – memorable events that engage each customer in an inherently personal way. Related Links Joe Pine The Experience Economy Strategic Horizons Joe on Twitter

How do you keep your network in motion? Talking Points What it means to keep your network moving How to keep reaching out on your radar Scheduling Sensitivity to organic opportunities to reach out Maintaining relationships Keeping tabs on what’s happening in your industry and who needs to know about it Working with people you like Helping people Making introductions Quotable Quotes “We’re in the relationship business at the end of the day.” –JS “There will be things that trigger your thinking of someone.” –RM “It is about helping. That’s really what this is all about. It’s about helping people.” –RM “Almost always, at least with the folks I work with, the thing that the other person needs to help you is more specificity.” –JS

Is It Marketing BS Or Genius? Talking Points The $36 jump rope Sometimes you pay a premium for things outside of the thing you’re actually buying, like an experience or a lifetime guarantee Why it’s important to understand why people are willing to pay more money for a thing or a service Understanding how your audience likes to get information Getting past the demographics Being clear about your values Best is subjective Noticing the story that you tell when you recommend something or give a gift Picking your battles Connecting a desire to a product Quotable Quotes “When it’s real, it’s not BS.” –RM “It’s not just the information transfer. If it were just information transfer, then everything would probably be a book or an audio file. You’d do everything in one medium. But you don’t.” –JS “You’re not making it up, it’s your story but you pick the points you want to tell and how to tell them based on what the pull is between you and your audience.” –RM “If you’re trying to help people who are into renewable energy, it’s going to be pretty hard to sell to climate deniers. Pick your battles.” –JS

What is the best home for your content? Talking Points Controlling your content Are you building someone else’s platform with your content? How search engine and social media platforms get in between creators and their audience Putting the same content in more than one place Knowing how much traffic you’re getting when you post on a platform Guesting on someone else’s podcast Sharing audiences Yelp as an example of not being able to control your content Platforms that can help you build an audience can also take you down Hedging your bets Breaking through the gatekeeper to get to an audience Working with editors Custom domains Controlling your links Quotable Quotes “Google being between me and the people I want to help – I don’t like it.” –JS “You do have to have control, at the end of the day, of your content.” –RM “If I’m going to be chipping away at something every day, you’d better believe I want those chips to fall in my basket, not someone else’s basket.” –JS “Own your content. Let it live with you.” –RM

How can you keep producing killer content? Talking Points How to measure engagement What’s repeatable about going viral Knowing your audience Understanding your audience’s baseline knowledge Terminology How often you should put out content Why you should write every day How often podcasts and videos should come out Separating what you have to do from what adds value but isn’t strictly necessary People trust videos more if they’re more natural Quotable Quotes “Killer content is content that engages your ideal audience.” –RM “If you know who you’re talking to, it dramatically increases the odds of being able to help them.” –JS “If you go from publishing weekly to every weekday, that’s five times more chances at bat.” –JS “There’s something about being accountable every single day that makes you literally look around you to find that inspiration.” –RM

Are you ready to take your summer back? Talking Points How client work downshifts in the summer What you can do instead of client work during the slow season Planning marketing for the fall Taking care of things that you’ve been putting off or that weren’t high enough priority to get done at other times of the year What energizes you during the summer months Using the block of time to get yourself ready for the next thing or set yourself up for a new phase in your business Diversifying your income streams Ranking clients Rethinking your technology choices Cleaning up broken links and stale language Avoiding the hamster wheel Quotable Quotes “There’s all these little things that you can do that don’t usually make it up to the top of your priority list.” –JS “Take your summer back. Don’t just sit there at the whim of the client” –RM “There’s something about having a great idea to work on in the summer that’s energizing.” –RM “So when things slow down it does, for me at least, give me that headspace to be like “let’s sit back for a second and think about what’s working, what’s not working as well and what I could do to do more of the stuff that’s working.” –JS

Do you have an unconventional niche? Talking Points How to choose a specialization What you can find out when you go deep into a specific area Picking a niche that’s intriguing to you How much choice people really want The Why Conversation Focusing your limited resources onto a specific point Why you should do a search to see what clients will see when they search for businesses like yours Incorporating your interests or passions into your branding Why money-based decisions don’t help you find your niche Who you want your message to resonate with and who you don’t want it to resonate with Making changes for the better Experimenting with a change in order to test the market Quotable Quotes “Best practices only get you so far.” –JS “The easiest way to solve problems is to focus on some aspect of who you’re serving and figure out how your expertise can tackle that problem.” –RM “It’s like hope is not a strategy—luck is not a strategy either.” –RM “If you want things to be better, well, better is a change. You have to change something if you want things to be better.” –JS Sharing is caring! If you enjoyed this episode, please consider sharing it with a few friends who might find it useful. Thanks!

How do you handle the twilight zone between when a client buys your stuff and you actually start delivering it? Why the time between purchase and delivery is the twilight zone Different twilight zones for different products Explaining the onboarding process Giving buyers something to do while they wait for what they ordered Setting expectations Helping clients trust the process Envisioning what you want the client experience to be What happens in more high-touch sales scenarios How much contact you need when you’re billing by the hour Keeping clients engaged Quotable Quotes “You’re treating that book like a product, like a service, like part of your business. It’s not something that’s separate.” –RM “Even though I’m not winging it, I want it to feel like I’m not winging it.” –JS “For somebody to see that you’ve laid some breadcrumbs… it’s reinforcing. It builds confidence.” –RM “In a coaching situation, the person who’s being coached really does have to do all the heavy lifting.” –JS

What to do when you screw up. Talking Points How you can turn a screw-up situation around Thinking about how the story is going to be told How empathy can help you understand how the story will be told and how you can turn it around Asking clients to trust you after screwing up Avoiding defensiveness Helping clients dealing with difficult situations Responding to unsolicited criticism Remaining respectful in the face of aggressive criticism or complaints Quotable Quotes “We ask our clients to tell us what’s wrong, what isn’t working, to be vulnerable that they’re not perfect.” –RM “Step one for me when it happens is don’t get defensive.” –JS “Sometimes maybe it’s not about you.” –RM “Take a breath, think about the other person, try and be empathetic to their situation, try to see it through their eyes.” –JS Related Links: Getting More by Stuart Diamond Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss

What do you need to do to build trust as an authority? Talking Points Charlie Green’s mathematical equation for determining trustworthiness Getting feedback about what you need to work on How your website or marketing materials could reveal gaps in credibility Seeing your credibility indicators through the eyes of your ideal client Demeanor as a credibility factor Making and keeping promises Consistency Being on time Intimacy Making yourself vulnerable Building intimacy by asking questions Taking the low-status role How to look for self-orientation on your website Quotable Quotes “The easy box to draw is what the world sees as credibility.” –RM “I’ve had people tell me a bunch of times that my demeanor is what convinced them.” –JS “In a service business there’s a whole lot of collaboration with your clients.” –JS “One way to build intimacy is to ask questions – about them. And listen to the answers.” –RM

Charles Green, legendary author of The Trusted Advisor, shares years of wisdom on building trust with clients. Talking Points What a trusted advisor is Why people in the authority space want/need to be trusted advisors The trust equation How people view women and men in terms of trust Most trusted profession How taking risks builds trust Strength of ego The trust-building process Cues clients give that show they feel heard Trust mindset Social media and trust building What Charles would change now if he could How the book fits with Charles’s business model The evolution of the products and services Charles created around the book Quotable Quotes “A trusted advisor is someone you feel comfortable telling your innermost as well as your outermost thoughts.” –CG “The truth is trust doesn’t just aggregate naturally over time. It accrues in little step functions, moments when you say the right thing and somebody opens up to you.” –CG “If you aspire to be a trusted advisor to your clients, the wrong strategy would be sitting around aggressively waiting for the phone to ring.” –CG “We said it’s really not a data book, it’s more kind of a wisdom book.” –CG Related Links Charles Green Trusted Advisor Associates The Trusted Advisor - the book

How do you define your competition? Talking Points Why you need to define your competition Brand neighborhoods Communicating with competitors Being choosy about who you work with Empathizing with potential clients An authority versus_ the_ authority What you can learn from sales interviews Defining yourself as well as the competition Researching the competition Quotable Quotes “I think it’s important for authorities to understand who around you you should pay attention to.” –RM “I find that a lot of people who I work with have a really hard time defining their unique difference.” –JS “I don’t want to take somebody on that really should be with someone else, because it’s not going to go well.” –JS “You’ve gotta get really clear on your special sauce.” –RM

The benefits of packaging up your expertise in novel ways. Talking Points The Lambda School Changes in Schwab’s financial planning model Value pricing Packaging your expertise Making your knowledge affordable to the people who you want to help Prioritizing money Connecting the dots for clients Diversifying your income stream Starting smaller at the beginning Knowing how your product can transform a business How past client testimonials can help you box your expertise Getting feedback before you’re ready to sell Quotable Quotes “You want the price of whatever you’re creating to reflect its value to your ideal user.” –RM “Sometimes money is more of a priority than a resource.” –JS “You can create a business model out of almost anything if you approach it as a business.” –RM “If you want to come at it from an expertise standpoint, the less me-focused it is, the easier it is for other people to connect the dots for you.” –JS Links The Lambda School Charles Schwab - new pricing model

Do you know how to build trust? Talking Points Defining trust Pre-sale trust and post-sale trust Domain-specific trust How to project an image that elicits trust from the right kind of audience How consistency builds trust Why clarity is important Who should extend their trust first Building trust during sales calls Making an impression that inspires trust Designing a website that builds trust Making yourself easier to contact Creating a page on your website that answers some of the questions you get asked most frequently Writing the way that you talk Quotable Quotes “I feel like trust is just an implicit part of that relationship, and the more we can make it explicit, I think it’s easier.” –RM “If we trust first, then the other person has the opportunity to trust back.” –RM “I don’t even call it a sales call. I call it a sales interview, and it’s just like a job interview. It goes both ways.” –JS “Tell me if you have a customer service person and I’ll tell you whether or not you should have a chatbot.” –JS

Do you know when to say yes – or no? Talking Points Mile markers for when you want to say yes or no Knowing the difference between opportunity and distraction Creating a strategy for choosing yes or no Conscious yes How saying yes to the wrong things can spiral Outsourcing when you need to say no Recognizing the kinds of people you want to say yes to Recognizing what is and isn’t a good fit The effect of maximizing productive yeses Quotable Quotes Without a strategy for your business, there’s no way to distinguish an opportunity from a distraction.” –JS “A 'Yes' can spiral into a whole bunch of unexpected work and distractions.” –JS “You don’t want a client nitpicking everything you’re doing.” –RM “It’s always easier to say yes to somebody who’s got a track record.” –RM Related Links Start With No by Jim Camp

Do you want to switch your niche? Talking Points Pivoting from one niche to another Avoiding customer confusion Building credibility with a new audience Getting recognized in the new niche How to handle audiences that don’t mix Handling social media during a pivot How to manage your website during a pivot Whether you can leverage your existing audience Opportunities to leverage the old business Quotable Quotes “Looking back on it, it really didn’t take that long, but it (switching my niche) felt like it took a long time.” –JS “The more you are recognized for the first niche, the harder it is to transition to the second.” –RM “You have to find that way, not just for your own confidence but to build your future clients’ confidence in you.” –RM “You’re going to spin down the old business one way or the other. You’re either going to sell it or you’re going to let it peter out.” –JS

Can you state your positioning in five words? Talking Points The single client need A minimum viable positioning statement Choosing a target market or ideal buyer that is specific enough Choosing the right language when describing what you do Describing outcomes that you know your clients will want Brand neighborhoods Getting new clients by focusing on a smaller segment Quotable Quotes “Basically, love and fear are the two main motivators with people.” –JS “I believe that the way you pick your specialty is you start with what you really love to do and for whom you love to do it.” –RM “The feeling is more important than the words to get you motivated and started and talking to people about what you do.” –RM “One thing you’ll always see is a huge list of really impressive clients that they’ve worked with. And that, to me, becomes the thing that attracts new clients.” –JS Related Links Todd Tresidder Financial Mentor

What are some practical examples of leverage? Talking Points Using your time in a way that it’s most valuable Paying to have work done so that you can focus on more important things Not giving up the things you like doing that are beneficial Setting up a standard operating procedure How to leverage getting on more podcasts Knowing what to delegate Billable hours Writing down your operating procedures Quotable Quotes “Once you find someone that’s good – I don’t forget about it, but so many things happen now by magic.” –JS “When you’re working with another professional, you’re not saying “do this, do this, do this, do this, ” which is a little, kind of rote to me.” –RM “So, what are you doing that drives you insane? Chances are it’s not going to be the thing you’re really good at.” –RM “Even if you just write it down for yourself and then use it each time, you’re already ahead of the game.” –JS Related Links: Todd Tresidder Financial Mentor The Leverage Equation

Guest Todd Tresidder joins us to talk about generating wealth by creating leverage in your business. Talking Points How Todd came to start Financial Mentor Understanding compounding wealth 3 Primary asset classes How entrepreneurs and freelancers can use leverage Leveraging knowledge and experience Delegating tasks The freedom of having a structure The time leverage angle 10X exercises Scalability Managing risk by starting with just your time 6 types of leverage that are solutions to obstacles How people can get started with leverage Quotable Quotes “Through coaching I really learned how much there was that I still had to learn.” –TT “The beauty of this is you can literally separate your equity growth from your earnings capacity or your time.” –TT “The whole idea is that you look at everything you spend your time on as a failure of your business systems.” –TT “Leverage is how you build the scalable large win, and risk management is how you control the losses.” –TT Related Links: Todd Tresidder Financial Mentor The Leverage Equation Prefer to read? Here's an interactive audio transcript of the raw audio of the episode.

Relationships are key to being in an authority business. Talking Points How relationships manifest between clients and consultants Different ways of connecting with people The network effect You may be surprised by how willing people are to talk if you approach them the right way How connecting with one type of person can potentially open up a whole new branch of connections Helping other people connect can help you build new relationships as well How to set up systems that help you connect with other people Quotable Quotes “I’m pretty promiscuous on LinkedIn.” –JS “Part of your relationship-building process has to fit with what you like, what you love to do.” –RM “With social media, you can just explode your results 100 times over. You create the equivalent on Twitter especially, of these virtual rooms, these virtual cocktail parties.” –RM “The more interesting people you’re connected with, I think, I just keep coming back to magic. It’s like magic. Magic happens.” —JS

How do you decide whose voice to listen to? Talking Points How to develop filters that help decide who to listen to Figuring out where someone is coming from when they give feedback Responding to unwanted feedback When you should be open to new opinions Avoiding echo chambers When asking for feedback, make sure that you ask specific questions Giving graceful feedback The role of your spouse Quotable Quotes
 
“Just because it’s something that we don’t want to hear doesn’t mean we can’t still be grateful that somebody felt the need to tell us.” –RM “Being able to communicate a complex idea to a whole bunch of different types of peoples from different cultures and different languages – it’s brutal.” –JS “It’s all in who you ask, how you ask, how likely you are to get the response that you want.” –RM “In my intake form for private coaching, I have two questions on there. Are you single, what’s your marital situation, and do you have any business partners. Because both of those things need special handling.” –JS Related Links Seth Godin

Should you build a course? How do you get started? Talking Points Once you create a course, it’s really hard to change it later Formulate a big idea and know your audience for the project Writing or speaking can help you get feedback on your ideas and help you get them into shape before creating a course Look into your options for where to develop the course Shorter courses are easier to sell You probably don’t need to communicate everything you know about a subject in one course in order for it to be useful to others An outline can be a good way to get started on your course Optimize for ease of recording Live takes Keep editing to a minimum Transcripts and video players that allow people to listen at their own speeds are helpful for students Self-host or use a hosting service Quotable Quotes “I kind of go back to this all the time and it might be just my personal bias, but I feel like writing a lot is almost a necessary precursor.” –JS “I think maybe one of your questions should be, “where do I want to develop this course?”” –RM “Any whiff of perfectionism can spiral out of control very quickly.” –JS “If you’re at all a person who gets into detail, you may decide you really love doing the editing, and that may not be the highest, best use of your time.” –RM Related Links How to Kick off a Successful Launch

Do you know how to develop an authority mindset? Talking Points An authority mindset includes wanting to help others who need your expertise The difference between an abundance mentality and a scarcity mentality Knowing when to say no Listening more than you speak Pricing mindset Courage and confidence The courage to specialize in a specific niche Putting yourself out there Having a thick skin Everything is content Quotable Quotes “I think the first rule is you want to help kindred spirits whenever you can.” –RM “Lighting somebody else’s candle from yours – you’re not losing anything.” –JS “I want to make it clear that adopting a service mentality does not mean that you become a doormat. To use the restaurant mentality – I’ve kicked plenty of people out of restaurants.” –JS “I think as you get out more and more and your name becomes known and you build a thriving business there actually can be an uptick in your fear, because now you’re not just starting out wondering where the next dollar is coming from. Now it’s coming in nicely, and you don’t want to rock that boat.” –RM Related Links Seth Godin

Why “selling” shouldn’t be a dirty word. Talking Points Despite the pushy salesperson stereotype, most things are not sold to consumers in pushy way You can sell without acting like a pushy salesperson Words like marketing or negotiating are often more palatable than selling Selling is necessary, because people won’t just show up to buy unless you put in the effort Reframing the concept of selling can help You can think of selling something that somebody needs as a mutual profit – both parties get something they want It’s important to involve the client in the process along the way Chemistry with a person matters in some types of sales Importance of having the right mindset Quotable Quotes “What that means to me, I think, if you think about it, is that 90% of the things that are sold to you are not done in this gross way.” –JS “What difference does it make, really, what you call it? It’s the activities that you do that are going to get the result that you want. –RM “If you don’t want to talk about marketing, if you don’t want to think about it like that, just go into the world and help as many people as you can.” –JS “When a consultant figures that out, it’s like a bell rings and you can’t unring it anymore. You can’t go back and work with somebody who doesn’t fit in your parameter of genius.” –RM Related Links Book Yourself Solid The Secret of Selling Anything

Where are you on the spectrum? Talking Points It’s important to clarify for yourself why you’re offering speaking services The difference between a speaker and a consultant who speaks How speaking provides challenges for the speaker The differences between subject matter expert speaking and inspirational speaking The overlap between speaking skills and consulting skills How to know which things to say yes to and what to say no to How speaking fits into your business model Finding a balance between performance and content Knowing what the audience needs to know and filtering out extraneous details Keeping track of your stories, findings, and observations 
Quotable Quotes
 
 “The expertise that I gained from doing client work is what I would base my talks on.” –JS “I like the give and take of an audience, because it tests you in really good ways.” –RM “Knowing where you fall – it’s a strategic decision. It’s going to decide what things you say no to, and it’s going to be saying no to a lot of things, and then you’re left over with the things you actually have time to do well.” –JS “It’s helpful to understand where you are right now, because that will tell you what you need to do, and most importantly, which things to say yes to and which things to run screaming from.” –RM Related Links David A. Fields Steal the Show by Michael Port Flawless Consulting by Peter Block

Does your location matter? Talking Points Building trust online Competing online means competing globally Translating the skills needed to work locally to the skills needed to work remotely Going to meet-ups and conferences The best platforms for approximating in-person interactions online Content marketing Using video and audio Quotable Quotes “Going from virtual to in-person or vice versa – I think those are skillsets and the translation to that is a process. You have to do it a little bit at a time.” –RM “Once you make the shift to operating on the internet, operating remotely, now all of a sudden, not only do you feel like you’ve got one hand tied behind your back, but also you’ve got way more competition.” –JS “Pick that platform, and then try to make it – when I say conversational, I mean experiential. So it feels like they’re working with you, however that is.” –RM “I would suggest, if you are the kind of person who is good in person, then maybe video is a good fit for you, or at least audio.” –JS

You have to know when to hold ‘em and know when to fold ‘em. Talking Points Signs that it’s time to kill off a product or service that you’re offering Differentiating between second-guessing yourself in the middle of a project and actually being ready to end the project Recognizing when a product or service that you’re offering is no longer making you happy Acting thoughtfully When changing things and trying new approaches doesn’t create new business or solve any problems, it may be time to quit Recognizing when you are or aren’t getting traction Changing your website Avoidance is not a good strategy Quotable Quotes “The first thing that occurred to me (because this is what happens to me), is I start to clench my teeth when I’m working on it or even when I’m thinking about it.” –RM “It’s usually client work where I just get exhausted by the thought of a particular thing, whatever it might be.” –JS “So, I’m sitting there saying to myself, oh my god. I have to invest more money to do more of what I don’t like. I mean, that’s just – that’s insane.” –RM “The first time it happened to me was in 2011, when I had like viral traction for an idea. And it like picks you up like a tornado and throws you.” –JS

Are you ready to raise your rates? Talking Points Price points It can be easier for service providers to raise prices than for people who produce products to raise prices Hourly rates vs. price for a project Talking to clients about your rates How to raise rates with long-term clients How to quote per-project prices Pricing products instead of projects Pricing based on the benefits that you’re providing Why you should tinker with your prices Quotable Quotes 
“But for folks like us, it’s actually not that complicated because by and large, we’re not getting bulk discounts on anything, we don’t have, like, a supply chain or anything like that.” –JS “There’s all sorts of reasons why hourly rates are bad, there’s a couple situations where they can really work, but the thing that I find really difficult with them is you’re inviting your client to speculate about how you spend your time.” –RM “Folks who bill by the hour usually in their marketing don’t project themselves in a way that’s clear to their buyers exactly what the heck they do.” –JS “It doesn’t make them a bad client or you a bad consultant, but there are times when you just need to go out and get new clients, new people, experiment with different approaches and learn.” –RM 


Meet David A. Fields, author, speaker, and consulting firm expert. Talking Points How David got into the consulting space David’s website redesign David’s books, and the difference between the first and second books David’s writing process How books work as a marketing vehicle How David pictured his book fitting into his business model The difference between traditional publishing and self-publishing Advice for people who are considering writing a book What happens when you are the brand David’s story about speaking Speaking as a marketing tactic Quotable Quotes “What do you consider part of the writing process? Because there’s writing, then there’s rewriting, there’s having the beta readers give feedback and tweaking based on that.” –DF “If you want something fast, you get up on stage and you speak. If you want something enduring, you write.” –DF “It’s not worth holding back your book because you can’t get a publisher. If you’ve got a book to write, write the book.” –DF “I don’t consider myself a professional speaker. I’m a consultant who speaks.” –DF David's Bio David A. Fields is a true consultants' consultant who works with boutique consulting firms worldwide. He's a best selling author, speaker, consultant, and mentor. David also heads the Ascendant Consortium whose clients are who's who of the business world. Related Links David A. Fields

There are lots of ways to measure growth. Talking Points Not all growth is good Growth is often measured by the number of employees, but that may not be the best measurement Q Scores The difference between strategy and tactics Other ways to measure growth Progress vs. growth The importance of valuing yourself and your services Measuring growth by the number of clients Measuring growth by social media followers or subscribers Vanity metrics Different businesses will have different measures of growth that are right for them 
 Quotable Quotes
 
“This may be a uniquely American phenomenon--I think we define how many employees we have as almost a bragging right.” –RM “I don’t think it’s automatic that people think of profits as the money number counts as growth.” –JS “Just don't let what the external world sees drive you if it’s not what’s good for you.” –RM “For me, growth is all about funding the mission.” –JS 
 Related Links A Company of One

Is it a good idea to use tweets for testing? Talking Points Paul Jarvis’s experience testing with tweets Why you need to identify an audience before running with a project What to do if you don’t already have a large email list or Twitter following Why you need to be able to describe your idea in a sentence or tweet What the market is good at Why it can be helpful when your followers shut down your ideas When you’re pitching a new idea, you need constructive feedback, not unconditional encouragement Make sure that you’re pitching to your target market Quotable Quotes “When I have an idea for something, I’ll just ask my list.” –JS “What that means for us is that we have no excuse not to test.” –RM “I’m not saying Facebook ads and Google ads don’t work, but they don’t work that great.” –JS “I also like when they just shut you down.” --RM Related Links Paul Jarvis Twitter Github

Today’s Guest is Paul Jarvis, designer, consultant, and author. Talking Points Paul’s background in tech and what he does now How Paul handles picking new projects and working with several different projects Paul’s testing process How to do things at scale without taking more time What Paul does with projects he no longer has time for How Paul attracts an audience for his projects Why Paul chose Sundays for his newsletter What “growth” really means The Company of One mindset Paul’s long game What success means to the individual Quotable Quotes 
“I know what questions you’re going to ask, and I’m going to answer them before you have to email me to ask them.” –PJ

 “I’ve killed off software products, courses, podcasts… so many things.” –PJ 

“Others are really good at managing; I’m really good at making stuff.” –PJ

 “I’d rather hire the top of market people to do what I need done, and I’d rather pay the premium of the top of market, A-list players, because I don’t need to manage those people.” –PJ
 Paul's Bio Paul Jarvis is a veteran of the online tech world, and over the years has had such corporate clients as Microsoft, Yahoo, Mercedes-Benz, Warner Music and even Shaquille O’Neal. Today, he teaches online courses, runs several software businesses and hosts a handful of podcasts from his home on an island off the West Coast of Canada. Paul's new book is called "Company of One: Why Staying Small is the Next Big Thing for Business", and is available for pre-order now.

Bestsellers don’t just happen on their own. What do you have to do to create one? Talking Points Big ideas Why you need to be entranced with your big idea A distinct point of view Delivering content that serves your ideal audience Build your email list Start building an email list a year before you launch Write the book that your audience wants or needs, but in your voice Approach where they are, not where you think they should be Repeat with new books Quotable Quotes “It’s not just about your topic, it’s about who you’re serving.” –RM “Delivering the content in advance – there’s so many advantages to that.” --JS “It’s not like there’s one way to success. There’s certainly a formula, but the formula needs to have your essence in it.” –RM “You kind of need to meet people where their awareness is. –JS Related Links James Clear Jill Konrath

How to find a marketing style that you feel good about. Talking Points A lot of people have a false impression of marketing and sales and dislike marketing and sales because of that. Marketing is a way of making a change in the culture It’s easier to notice bad marketing models because good marketing doesn’t feel like marketing Marketing should help people as much as possible for free Pushy hard-sell tactics can turn people off If you believe you have valuable information that people should know about, you should share it People won’t magically find you. You have to let them know you’re there Know your audience, connect with them, and have empathy with them Find a way to deliver value with your marketing If you’re in a service business, you already help people. Incorporate that into your marketing Say no to get to yes Quotable Quotes “Marketers are people who make change happen – in particular changes in the culture, which are very hard to make.” –JS “In my mind, marketing is everything from how you position yourself in the market, to your overall messages, to how you reach out to a swath of your public.” –RM “Our clients have a lot of choices, and it can be hard to find you amongst everybody else that’s in your niche.” –RM “The more empathy you have for your audience, the more natural you’re going to be at it.” –JS Related Links Seth Godin The Secret of Selling Anything

Meet Chris Do, founder and CEO of Blind and The Futur. Talking Points Chris’s background The vision for The Futur Chris’s plan for funding his projects Growing from $17K to $1.6M in annual revenue in 4 years The benefits of using YouTube Whether content can stand on its own without design Motivation and intent When to work with other people and when to go solo What things can and can’t be outsourced Which big ideas Chris presents to his audience When to change your rates Quotable Quotes “I think it’s important that we have more creative people, especially to solve some of the most perplexing problems facing humankind.” –CD “The worst that you fear never materializes, and if you have the courage to create content, it will be OK as long as you don’t go out of your way to hurt people. I think that’s the key.” –CD “Here’s the way I approach it: I’d rather not do it than do a mediocre job.” –JS “The business tools – they’re pretty straightforward. The miracle is when you’re going to use those tools.” –CD Related Links Chris Do Blind The Futur

What is the key difference between freelancers and business owners? Talking Points Freelancers are business owners, they just don’t always know it Freelancers end up spending their time working in their business instead of on their business The difference is a difference in mindset. To be a business owner, you will need to think like a business owner Freelancers who want to grow have to start thinking about business like a business – including marketing, finances, vision, and strategy If clients can’t tell the difference between you and a cheaper freelancer, they will go with the person who is cheaper To build a successful business, it’s important to understand what really adds value to your business You need to have a strong story in order to reach clients You have to be able to say no when asked to do something that’s outside of your expertise or the scope of your business Your authority needs to be part of your branding and marketing Putting the time into building the business The three personality types that every business needs The entrepreneur personality is the one that can’t be hired out Working for a small agency before going solo can help you understand more of how the business end works People who want to start an authority business need consulting skills When you own a business, you set aside time to work on your business no matter how busy you are with client work The time commitment involved in building a business Quotable Quotes “As soon as you hang your shingle out there, you started a business, whether you know it or not or like it or not.” –JS “I think of a woodworker, for example, who makes beautiful furniture, but if you don’t have a way to sell it, if you don’t have a way to market it, if you don’t have a way to leverage the time that you put into it, if you don’t have a way to price it properly, then you don’t have a business. You have a craft.” –RM “If you’re not making some enemies, you’re not making any allies.” –JS “Freelancers, in particular, need to be reminded that it took a lot of courage to do that (leave their job). But the way to not have to go back and become an employee is to create a business around what you’re doing.” –RM Related Links The Freelancer’s Roadmap Built to Sell

More systems that can help you build an authority business. Talking Points Content is an important aspect of marketing A detailed checklist can be a helpful system Speaking can be a marketing activity It’s helpful to have a system that allows you to schedule promotions of your content Creating a playbook can be helpful for busy people who need guidance in promoting content Admin tasks are necessary, but can often be delegated to experts Determine which tasks are integral and necessary to your mission. You may be able to eliminate those that aren’t Keeping yourself healthy is necessary in order to keep performing at your best Exercise that you enjoy is good for both physical and mental health Set boundaries for yourself Creative pursuits can help you relax after a tough day Quotable Quotes “With an authority business, your content is critical.” –RM “Your strategy should follow the medium too. You have to be respectful of the medium that you’re on.” –RM “I’m not anti-ads, but if it feels like torture, do something else. There are other things to do.” –JS “There are very very few things in my calendar that are immovable objects.” –JS Related Links Meet Edgar ConvertKit When by Daniel Pink

What systems do you need to build an authority business? Talking Points An overview of the systems that authority businesses need Writing regularly is essential for building an authority business Rituals or routines can help establish a writing routine Schedule writing for a time when you’re at your best and you can be most creative Reading regularly can help spark ideas Be observant for examples of your subject Get input from others who do more in-depth research on your subject Schedule client work Have a plan for how to communicate with clients Sales is a one-to-one touchpoint with your clients Clear steps in the sales process help both you and your clients The speed element to sales Quotable Quotes “For me, writing is absolutely the most important thing I do for my business.” –JS “That’s the takeaway, find that right time – and that right system – so you can be at your best.” –RM “I’m always looking for great real-world examples that will snap people out of the way they think about how they –air-quotes price – their work in an hourly billing way.” –JS “We create the systems that we need to get our businesses and our lives in order. –RM Related Links Wordpress Drip Gmail How to Measure Anything Calendly Twist Slack

Author James Clear on getting remarkable results from making tiny changes to your habits. Guest Bio James Clear is an author, speaker, and entrepreneur. More than 400k people subscribe to James' newsletter on habits and performance. His work has been used by teams in the NFL, NBA, and MLB, as well as leaders of Fortune 500 companies. His new book "Atomic Habits, Tiny Changes, Remarkable Results" is available now. Quotable Quotes "Big goals make you feel bad about yourself."—JC "When you focus on the practice instead of the performance, you can enjoy the present moment and improve at the same time."—JC "I've found that goals are good for planning your progress and systems are good for actually making progress."—JC "What you do now is a mirror image of the type of person you believe that you are (either consciously or subconsciously)."—JC "You can't rely on being motivated. You have to become the type of person you want to be, and that starts with proving your new identity to yourself."—JC "Amateurs are the victims of their habits."—JC Related Links Atomic Habits: Tiny Changes, Remarkable Results James on CBS This Morning JamesClear.com This Coach Improved Every Tiny Thing by 1 Percent and Here’s What Happened Forget About Setting Goals. Focus on This Instead. Identity-Based Habits: How to Actually Stick to Your Goals This Year

Why should you specialize? Talking Points Nobody wants a unisex haircut People are often looking for a unique style, not a one-size-fits-all approach It may be best not to put your portfolio on your website Generalizing locks you into lower prices and more competition Specializing minimizes your competition Specializing leads to higher prices Even if you only appeal to a small subset of the market, you can charge a lot if you offer something that subset can’t get anywhere else You may gravitate toward a specialty over time depending on what is most profitable or what you enjoy doing the most Specializing can allow you to close on a higher percentage of sales because your clients are specifically seeking out your unique service Having a specialty means sometimes saying no to work that doesn’t fit within that specialty Quotable Quotes “When you don’t market to someone in particular, you’re marketing to everyone, and when you’re marketing to everyone you’re not marketing to anyone.” –JS “If I knew that I could get high-quality vision and feedback, I would spend a lot more.” –RM “You don’t really want options. You just want exactly what you want.” –JS “The fact that you have your own special sauce is fabulous. You’ve got to own that. You don’t want to look like anybody else, much less everybody else.” –RM Related Links Dribbble

Top 10 Tools for Building an Authority Business Which tools do you need to build an authority business? Talking Points Most authority businesses benefit from email marketing Email automation platforms have multiple useful features A contact system can help you keep track of leads, contacts, and clients Making physical notes with pen and paper is an alternative for people who don’t like digital to-do lists Communication tools for both client communications and team communications Payment platforms Accounting and bookkeeping Accepting credit cards is important for building trust Calendar management The sanity bucket Importance of setting boundaries Managing your email inbox Starting and ending calls on time Remember to move during the day Quotable Quotes “People do not mind getting good emails. They mind bad emails.” –JS “You really have to match this to how you work.” –RM “We’re professionals, we serve clients, we have this big idea we’re trying to spread and connect with people, we have to stay sane in the process.” –RM “Getting out of my email inbox solves a million problems.” --JS Related Links MailChimp Drip ConvertKit Salesforce Google Keep Evernote Remember the Milk Streak Pipedrive Zoom Skype Twist Slack Crowdcast Braintree Stripe FreshBooks PayPal SendOwl MoonClerk Calendly ScheduleOnce Sanebox

There are a lot of things going on behind the scenes of a successful launch. What do you need to do to make sure launch day goes smoothly? Talking Points A launch is an integrated process that can be considered part of the product development Figure out how to structure the product Learn how to talk about the product in a way that will attract the interest of people who need it Keep potential clients and buyers updated and get their feedback Have a test group Focus on the mission, the goal, and the impact that you want to have Having a mailing list is an enormous asset Focusing on a central point helps you pick up momentum There’s an emotional investment in a launch. It’s about more than just the production of a product Quotable Quotes “Part of my mission here is to spread this concept of ditching hourly billing for something better.” –JS “That’s the problem with social media – it’s that at any time, Twitter or Facebook could ban you.” –RM “The more that you can focus, in a very real way, on your mission and your audience, the more likely it is that you’re going to have this kind of success with a launch.” –RM “If I tried to change what I was doing tomorrow, it would be impossible. I couldn’t.” –JS Related Links The Pricing Seminar The Marketing Seminar by Seth Godin

Are you asking for testimonials as often as you should be? Learn how to make it easier. Talking Points Asking for feedback should be part of your process Ask clients what their biggest concern was before hiring you Testimonial feedback can help you learn how to serve clients better Even if you don’t use it as a testimonial, feedback can be used to update your website, service offerings, or FAQs When you ask for feedback frequently, you’ll start to notice patterns, and gain a better idea of what your clients value Ask clients what surprised them about working with you Ask clients what they would have wanted to be different about their experience The last question to ask clients is “would you recommend me? Why?” If you edit client testimonials, make sure to leave the client’s voice intact Asking for testimonials can be an antidote to imposter syndrome Clients are more likely to provide testimonials if you can ask questions that guide them through the process easily When you get compliments from clients in the normal course of your work, you can ask to use those phrases as testimonials Quotable Quotes “Even if you don’t ultimately publish the feedback that you get, it’s really important to get it.” –JS “The more you know, the better you’re going to be able to serve your next clients.” –RM “I hesitate to say always – I want to say always, though. It always surprises you.” –JS “The more you reflect what people really value about you, the more of those people you’re going to attract into your orbit.” –RM Related Links Building the Perfect Testimonial The Right Way to Ask for Testimonials Making Time for Creativity – The Four Essentials

How can you keep in touch with your creative process? Talking Points Focus on the objective, mission, or message Have a daily practice Avoid perfectionism Set a schedule Practice being creative Work on something that’s bigger than yourself Have a big idea or specialty to focus on Feedback from other people can help you generate ideas It’s OK to ignore certain kinds of feedback Have accountability outside of yourself If you get a streak going, you won’t want to break it Having a coach can help Quotable Quotes “It’s shocking how much more output you’ll get from a daily habit than even a weekly habit.” –JS “I help myself with my work as much as I help anybody else.” –RM “Creativity is not a solo act.” –RM “Not everybody’s on the same journey with you.” –JS Related Links Leonardo da Vinci by Walter Isaacson

Is podcasting the right path for you? Talking Points It helps to have a focus and a clear audience How podcasting and writing a book can go together How the interview format can be helpful for podcasters Podcasting as an income stream Complications of ads and sponsorships Podcasting as a way to build a network Things you need to get started in podcasting How to record voices on separate tracks Podcast editing tips and strategies Podcast hosting options Three phases of podcasting The importance of promoting your podcast How social media can help with podcast promotion Podcasting analytics Quotable Quotes “You don’t get speaker’s block when you’re talking to someone.” –JS “Really what you’re doing is listening to your guest – you’ve got your standard set of questions and you’re listening to where your guest goes with it. And you follow them.” –RM “Just as a listener...that sponsorship feel can be really negative.” –RM “I love having something to invite people to.” –JS Related Links Jill Konrath This American Life Rode Microphones MXL Microphones Quicktime Call recorder for Skype Zencastr Zoom Audacity Adobe Audition Reaper Podcast Motor Simplecast Castos Wordpress

It's the most wonderful time of the year to initiate conversations with your network Talking Points How to revive dead deals The best communication channel for making connections Why outreach is both predictable and unpredictable The importance of genuine curiosity Networking for introverts Related Links Closing The Loop by Blair Enns

##Talking Points One of the critical growth points consultants and authorities-in-the-making grapple with is when to hire outside help with your business. This week we discuss how to decide if you’re ready for a Virtual Assistant—and then dive into how to make it work. We cover how to decide what to offload, what kind of VA you need, how much to pay them and where to find them. ##Quotable Quotes -“If you’re beyond the start-up phase—or you’re in the start-up phase with money and a vision—chances are you can use the help of a savvy VA.”—RM -“You’re ready for a VA if you’re spending time on things you’re not good at or you don’t like to do and you could use that time PROFITABLY to grow your business.”—RM -“What things could you do…if you added another person to take it the next step?”—JS -“You want to hire someone who has experience and can take things off you. You want to feel relief, not annoyance.”—RM -“What could you have someone do—not just recurring tasks—but what could they do to add value to your clients?”—JS -“You have to get really clear about what you want to get done AND how you want to work.”—RM -“A good, experienced, savvy VA is going to look at your business—and they will see things you could do better.”—RM -“If you can find a way in your business to take the stressful pieces off you—and put them on somebody else who enjoys doing that (it’s their oyster), then do it.”—RM

If you don't give yourself a break, who will? Talking Points Setting boundaries Examples of small, medium, and large breaks Identifying your "anchor habits/tasks" Reusing content to give yourself a break How our phones make taking a break difficult Quotable Quotes “I’m not a big fan of vacations.”—JS “We need a break from sitting on our butts using our brains.”—RM “Boredom is basically gone.”—JS “Both the mind and the body need breaks.”—RM “I’m not anti technology. I’m pro breaks.”—RM “It’s about exercising a different mental muscle, or emotional muscle, or muscle muscle.”—JS “If you don’t know what to do to recharge your batteries, experiment.”—RM “You have to give yourself breaks, because nobody is going to do it for you.”—RM “If you don’t do it, who’s going to?”—RM Related Links Three Month Vacation by Sean D’Souza Anchor Tasks by James Clear Inbox Pause Sanebox Why You Need A Content Inventory Ready Player One Why You Should Take A Social Media Sabbatical by Paul Jarvis

There's probably a difference between what YOU think you do and what YOUR CLIENTS think you do. Talking Points How to find meaningful metrics Why your craft doesn't matter as much as you think Quotable Quotes “Are you taking your clients on the scenic route to nowhere?”—JS “Measure what your client values.”—RM “How can you hit a home run if you don’t know where the wall is?”—JS “There’s always something to measure. Otherwise, your clients wouldn’t know anything was wrong.”—JS “If you don’t think you can have a positive impact, you shouldn’t be proposing.”—RM “Consultants push back. Freelancers don’t.”—JS “Billing by the hour sets the expectation that you’re interchangeable.”—JS Related Links Jonathan’s Daily List

Talking Points You might have a positioning problem if ...your clients can't tell the difference between you and everybody else ...you're not getting any word of mouth ...you can't explain what you do in five words or less ...you're not leading how your target audience sees you ...you don't know who your target audience is ...you don't know--or you don't talk about--how you transform your clients Quotable Quotes "You want to give your clients the tools to spread the word about you" -JS "What is the change--the transformation--you create for your people? That's where you want to focus." -JS "The HOW we get clients "there" is less important than that we're focused on the same outcome." -RM "Positioning is an organized effort to differentiate yourself or your firm to influence how your target audience perceives you." -RM "A strategy is a litmus test for deciding what not to do. What's a good opportunity and a bad opportunity?" -JS "If you're in the authority business, the single most important thing you'll do is position yourself or your firm." -RM Related Links Do You Have A Positioning Problem?

How and why to use stories with prospective clients. Talking Points How to remember your war stories The value of sharing stories in the sales process Where to look for story triggers How to use your values to test your stories Credentials vs stories How to prepare stories for client meetings Why you shouldn't memorize your stories (and when you should) ##Quotables: -“If someone wanted an arrogant cowboy, that would be the perfect story to tell.”—RM -“It’s going to push away people who would create a disastrous project anyway.”—JS -“Really good stories are sticky.”—JS -“Lists of credentials can help narrow the field. Your story takes you to the next level.”—RM

A strategy for getting paid well even if your audience has small pockets. Talking Points The power of starting with the problem Big pockets vs small pockets Examples of paid marketing opportunities What to do before you have an audience How to craft a great pitch How to create interest in a cold email What to do on a pitch call Quotable Quotes “To increase the monetary value of your speaking gigs, have product available.”—JS -“It may look really simple—an e-book or a guide—but how that gets marketed, whose hands it goes into, how your name is used, matters. They’re all part of your brand.”—RM -“Ask yourself: how does this opportunity align with my message? How does it work for my people?”—RM -“If you get people to sell out, you’re in trouble”—JS -“Answer the question: what do you write about that serves their audience’s needs?”—RM -“You’ve got to do your homework or you’re a spammer. And people smell spammers a mile away” —JS -“If it makes you feel gross, you’re doing it wrong”—RM Related Links The TBOA Jill Konrath episode The Secret of Selling Anything The show Jonathan hosted for Intel

How to give away expertise for free and make good money doing it Talking Points Selling more in less time without pushing How having a mission can help you strategically The roles that writing a book can play in a business How to give away expertise for free and make good money The importance of a good mailing list One way to constantly be in creation mode Quotable Quotes "I didn't sit down one day and decide I wanted to be well-known."—JK "How can I help these people and not go broke?"—JK "People in the consulting business fundamentally think about sales in the wrong way."—JK "Sales is a skill. If you don't learn it, you can't create a sustainable career."—JK "Sales is not pushy. It's consultative."—JK "Your clients don't want what you have to offer. They want outcomes."—JK "I'm well aware that my books are the lifeblood of my business, but that's not why I write them."—JK "About 15 years ago, I asked myself 'How can I give my expertise away for free and make good money doing it?'"—JK "I have passed up a significant number of revenue generating opportunities."—JK "It's all about creating a conversation with someone you want to reach."—JK Guest Bio After an award-winning sales career in the technology and services sector, Jill is now an internationally recognized speaker and sales strategist. She’s a bestselling author of four books—Selling to Big Companies, SNAP Selling, Agile Selling, and More Sales Less Time. Recently, LinkedIn named Jill as their #1 Business-to-Business Sales Expert citing her 1/3 million followers. Salesforce selected her as one of Top 7 Sales Influencers of the 21st century. Plus, she’s featured in the just-released “Story of Sales” documentary. As a consultant, Jill has worked with companies like IBM, GE, and Staples as well as many mid-market firms. Her expertise has appeared in Forbes, Fortune, New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Inc, Entrepreneur, Bloomberg, ABC and Fox News. To sum up her career, Jill is constantly searching for fresh strategies to enable sales success n an ever-changing business environment. Related Links Jill's Website Jill's LinkedIn Selling to Big Companies Transcript Jonathan S: 00:00 Hello, and welcome to the Business of Authority. I'm Jonathan Stark. Rochelle M: 00:04 And I'm Rochelle Moulton. Jonathan S: 00:05 Today, we're joined by Jill Konrath. After an award-winning sales career in the technology and services sector, Jill is now an internationally-recognized speaker and sales strategist. She's the best-selling author of four business books, most recently More Sales, Less Time. LinkedIn has named her their number one B2B expert, and Salesforce selected her as one of the top seven sales influencers of the 21st century. As a consultant, Jill's worked with companies like IBM, GE, and Staples, as well as many mid-market firms. Her expertise has appeared in Forbes, Fortune, New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Inc, Entrepreneur. The list goes on. We're super happy to have Jill with us today. Jill, welcome to the show. Jill K: 00:46 Hey, thanks for having me. I'm glad to be here. Rochelle M: 00:49 Jill, I just have to comment on your big idea on your website, which kind of sums up everything Jonathan just said about you. Sales Accelerated. Yeah! Love it! Jill K: 01:00 I do, too. In the niche that I'm in, it's about how do we make more sales and do it in less time. How can we make it faster? To me, it's not just faster, it's really about how do we have a better conversation that's more focused on the customer. That's what makes it faster, not just push. Rochelle M: 01:21 Love it! Before we get into all this, maybe for some of the members of our audience who might be experiencing you for the first time, will you tell us a little bit more about who you are, how you work, what you do? Jill K: 01:35 Who I am. I am a sales consultant. I have been in the sales field pretty much my entire career. I never wanted to be in sales. I wanted to be an entrepreneur, but they told me when I brought my business plan into SCORE, Service Corps of Retired Executives, that it was a really good idea, and then they said, "How are you going to sell this?" I looked at them. I thought, "I thought you said it was a good idea." They said, "It is, Jill, but somebody has to sell it," so I said, "All right. I'll go into sales for one year. I'll learn everything there is to know and then I will get out of it." Anyway, I never left. Jill K: 02:14 I found it to be fascinating and totally different than I thought it was. I assumed most salespeople were slimy, manipulative con artists like you see on TV or the movies. I found out that, in the business-to-business field, salespeople are intelligent, creative, concerned about their customers, focused on their customers, trying to help them make good business decisions that enhance the quality of their work, and it was fun. I sold directly for a few years, like eight years, and then I actually started my own company, working as a consultant and did that for a long time, specializing in a very specific area of new products. Jill K: 03:01 Then, my business crashed. I got totally wiped out because my two biggest clients came under pressure from Wall Street at the same time, and it took me a few years to get going again. I had to reinvent myself, and in the new iteration, I became me that people see on my website, which is not what I was doing before. Rochelle M: 03:20 One of the things that's so fascinating to me, Jill, is that it feels like from the outside looking in that you've made some interesting pivots in your career. What made you start your own business? Leaving Xerox had to be a big deal. Jill K: 03:36 I actually went into technology sales after Xerox. What caused me to start my own business was really, I have an extraordinarily low boredom threshold, and I'm a really rapid learner. I would throw myself into every new sales position, quickly learn it and, as soon as I learned it, I was no longer interested in it, which is not a good career choice then if you're constantly leaving as soon as you get good at something. Jill K: 04:08 What I discovered was that I had the ability from a consulting perspective to go into massively complex situations, challenging business environments, and assimilate a whole lot of information about the buyer, the product, the sales process, the marketplace. I was so good at rapid learning, I could assimilate that all quickly and put it into a structure that would help my clients be more effective faster. I became a consultant, really to satisfy my need for continual interesting and challenging projects to work on. Rochelle M: 04:48 I get you. I was thinking as you started to say that, "Well, gee! That's the definition of consultant." We keep creating our new assignments. Jill K: 04:58 Yes, it's all about creating your new assignment. To me, to find a niche and to go off to the niche and to build it out and to get good at it and then to continually have new projects feeding me all the time, it was like, oh, I was in heaven as a consultant! Rochelle M: 05:14 That sounds familiar. There's a description you have on your website, and I'm not sure why I hadn't seen it before, where you describe yourself as going from a quiet, unknown consultant, which I think some of our listeners might relate to, to this recognized international authority. Jill K: 05:36 Yeah, I know. Rochelle M: 05:38 I'd love to hear more about how you did that. Jill K: 05:43 Let me just say, it was step by step and it wasn't part of the game plan. It was never my intention to be where I'm at today. I didn't sit down one day and say, "I want to be well known, and I want to have four best-selling books." I thought I wanted to write a book, and all I had to say in the whole wide world could be encapsulated in 60,000 words. Then, I wouldn't have another thing to say in my whole life. What happened to me is, I sort of got caught in a couple mission type of things in my mind that I was on a mission to do things. Jill K: 06:18 There was, at one point when I very vividly remember one year where all these conferences had all these bald white guys speaking. It was like all these male sales reps that are older and bald. I was like, "Where are the women? Where are the women? There's 20-30% of the sales force is women. They need women sales models." This is my, my quiet person out in White Bear Lake was doing good work. I said, "Ann wrote a book. Why doesn't she become more visible. Susan wrote a book. Why isn't she more visible." They didn't want to be more visible. They just wanted to write a book and disappear and do their work again. Jill K: 06:57 I finally went, "Oh, crap! It looks like if the women need a visible person to look up to, that it's going to have to be me because it seems to be that I'm the only one on this bandwagon. It's like, where are the women? Where are the women?" That became a responsibility of mine. I actually felt a very strong responsibility to be a role model for other women in sales because I had so desperately wanted to see women when I was growing up in my career, so that was one thing that happened. Jill K: 07:31 I sort of got hooked into another idea, too. I did a pro bono project. It was to help a magazine that served the small and medium business community, and I discovered through that what was happening with entrepreneurs and other consultants and people in small businesses and how they were trying to grow. It seemed like there was always a bottleneck that they were running into that they didn't know how to sell. I mean, they reach a point where their business can only grow so far, and they're just working so darn hard for the amount of money that they're getting that they go back to the corporate environment. Jill K: 08:06 I just thought, "That's terrible! This is a sales issue. How can I solve this? These people don't have a pot to pee in. They can't afford me. I'm used to the corporate rates, and they can't afford me, so what can I do to serve these people and not go bankrupt," which was a driving force of mine. This was back 10, 15 years ago. For months, I spent 80 hours researching things, and I couldn't find an answer. I kept saying, "How can I? How can I? How can I help these people and not go broke? How can I help these people and make some money." Jill K: 08:41 One morning, I literally woke up at 4 o'clock in the morning, and a voice in my head spoke to me and said, "Thou shalt create a website called Selling to Big Companies, and your tagline will be Helping Small Companies Win Big Contracts." I saw the whole thing. It was just like it came to me in just a bundle. I created just in time content for people, and I just created this really nice website, put the website up and I'm so excited about it! I put the website up, and it's got this great content for consultants and people like me who I know how to help. The day the website went up, I went, "Oh, my God! I have just created a wonderful website and not a person in the whole world knows it exists except me." Jill K: 09:28 I devoted six months entirely to creating the website and writing content and putting stuff up. I mean, literally shut down my business to do the website. At that point, I went, "Well, I better figure out how to become known because this is a website to help these people and they don't know, so I have to become more visible." That was the other impetus to become visible out there in the world. One thing led to another and, I guess, once I dumped everything out of my brain in my first book, a few later, new ideas started creeping in. Jill K: 09:59 Because I saw another problem that wasn't being solved out there, I had to tackle that problem because it was challenging to me, and I like messes. It's messy, so I had to tackle that problem. Once I figured out what would work, then I thought, "Well, I have to write a second book," so I wrote SNAP Selling, which is all about how do you sell to busy buyers who are too busy to talk to you on the phone or talk to you about going ahead with the project, and then they never get back to you because everything else is going on in their company. Then, I thought I'd said everything I needed to say. Jill K: 10:35 After I wrote SNAP Selling, that book, people said to me, "Jill, this is really good. It's really helping me get in to see these people. It's helping me keeping the conversation going, and now we're closing deals, more projects." Then, they'd go, "But," and it was like this 'but' was a huge 'but'. It was, "But, I'm crazy busy, too. What do you have for me?" I looked at them in horror, and I'd say, " Oh, I haven't a clue! I'm going nuts just like you are!" Jill K: 11:05 You know, you keep hearing that long enough, and then that might create a brain starts working in the background, so I think, "I know one thing that can help with this. I know one thing. I know how to do rapid learning. I know how to get into a sales job and get up to speed fast because that was what I did with all my consulting work, quick emersion, pick out the salient points, and how to align them so you can figure out what to do," so I wrote a book on that called Agile Selling, which is how to get up to speed fast in a new sales position. I thought I was done, that I'd said everything I needed to say. Then, I was still crazy busy myself and miserable. Jill K: 11:44 Finally, one day I woke up and said, "Well, this is no way to live." Maybe I should study that and how I can change my life so I'm not going nuts all the time. I studied that and, of course, every time I figured something out, I'd feel this compelling need to share it with the world, so that's what I did. Rochelle M: 12:05 Are you working on number five? Jill K: 12:07 I am not right now, no. Rochelle M: 12:10 I can't wait to hear what it's going to wind up being. Jill K: 12:13 I have no idea. I have to wait for the problem to emerge. I don't have a problem screaming at me right now. The biggest problem and challenge I have right now is I'm selling my house and downsizing, and I have three weeks to get out. Rochelle M: 12:28 Cool. Jill K: 12:33 That's all I'm thinking about right now. Rochelle M: 12:34 That's huge. Thank you for making the time to talk to us in between. Jonathan S: 12:39 Your story, sort of the way you punctuated there at the end with you're waiting for the problem to reveal itself, that really speaks to sort of dogfooding your own material. I'm a huge fan of the Selling to Big Companies book. I recommend it to students all the time, and it's all about that. It's starting with what's the benefit, what's the value proposition, what is the ... Don't talk about your competitors and how you're different from your competitors. Talk about the status quo and how you're different from that. Give it to them in tangible terms that define business outcomes if you're selling to businesses. Jonathan S: 13:21 It's one of those sort of slap yourself in the forehead types of things when you read it. It's like, "Well, obviously!" I believe that it stems from that, like what's the problem? Hopefully, it's an expensive problem. People have this big expensive problem, the kind of thing they're losing sleep over, and then when you stumble ... Obviously, your radar is finely attuned looking for that kind of thing, so I think a lot of people just sort of zoom right by them and don't pick up the signal. Rochelle M: 13:57 I'm not sure. Yes, my radar's really tuned because I've been in the sales field a long time but, what I think is really going on for a lot of people who are in the consulting business is they think about sales the wrong way. I mean, they fundamentally think about sales the wrong way, which is the used car. I got to talk about myself and tell them about how unique I am and my wonderful services, and then they feel like frauds because they don't feel unique, and they don't think that their services are really all that different, and they hate blathering on and on about how wonderful they are, so they don't feel good about that. Then, they don't want to sell. They'd just as soon just keep doing projects, but the reality of it is, if you don't learn, and sales is a skill, if you don't learn and tackle it as a skill, you cannot create a sustainable career. You have to look at it directly and say, "It's a skill. I can learn it. Other idiots are learning it, too, and they're no better than me. They just figured out how to get work and, if I can focus on that, I'll do fine." Rochelle M: 14:58 You have to realize that it's not pushy. The best salespeople are consultants. I mean, they're consultative in their nature, and they've learned how to take a consultative process that they use with their clients and move it into a sales methodology about understanding the business issue. Anybody's who's doing consulting is working on an issue. That's why they're there, so the challenge is to stop talking about, "Oh, we have this really unique methodology that we just love" or, "We're so creative." Rochelle M: 15:28 It's really talking about the issue and what they can't do, what they want to do, and what they're going to have trouble doing because of how they're currently set up as an organization, the methodologies that they use, everything that you could look at that could be a problem. If somebody would realize that selling is really consulting and get off that, "I hate selling! I hate selling" bandwagon and just say, "Look, I am really good at this, and I want to be able to do this with my life. I want to have a sustainable income. I need to learn the skill, and I need to approach it as a disciplina- ..." Jill K: 16:00 I need to learn the skill and I need to approach it as a discipline that just is part of running a business. Rochelle M: 16:06 Yeah, I think a lot of consultants get kinda tossed around with this idea of their process, because as a soloist you typically have to have some expertise and you have to have a process on some level that you follow, and so the typical consultant things, "Well, I've gotta tell the client about my process and there's 17 steps and it looks like this." Jill K: 16:24 Oh God, let's complicate things, 17 steps and a busy buyer will go, "OH my God, 17 steps." You know, and then they'll be intimidated and bored. Rochelle M: 16:36 Exactly. It's focusing on outcomes and Jonathan and I both, you know we preach that to the heavens. It really is as simple as that, when you think every consultant and I grew up in a big consulting firm, so I learned the selling piece, consultative selling in relationships early, and once it becomes a natural part of who you are, you can't turn it off. Jill K: 17:03 You can't, right. Rochelle M: 17:04 And that's a good thing. Jill K: 17:05 Yes, it is a good thing, because being consultative it's a wonderful skill to be able to ask questions and figure out where the issues are and then to be able to step back and think, "How can I help it?" You know, that's what sales is too, and if you can take and just reapply those same skills that you have that make you a good consultant, you can get business, but you gotta get over yourself, you know and that you hate it. Rochelle M: 17:30 Yes, and the 17 step process. Jill K: 17:33 Oh, God no, nobody wants your 17 steps. All you need to talk about is how do you get started. Let me suggest this as the starting point, you know, we have other things we can go on, but here's basic starting point what we have to do to get going on this project. Rochelle M: 17:46 I hear you. So what I'm wondering is, could we talk about your business model for a minute, Jill? Jill K: 17:52 Yes, we could. I mean I have an evolving business model, cause my business has changed dramatically over the years. Rochelle M: 18:00 Oh, I'd be amazed if it hadn't. I mean, one of the things we talk a lot about on this show is different, creating digital products and books and obviously books are a key part of your business strategy, I mean you've got four best selling books in 12 years, so we all know that's a huge investment in time. I'm wondering if you can walk us through the role that books play in your business model. So just as an example, some people think of books as really a standalone revenue stream and they look at books as, you know I need to make money from this book and this is my plan and it's a revenue stream, and others say, "Listen, the book is really more about feeding my speaking business or my consulting business, it's a calling card. And I don't worry so much about the revenue from the books, what I look at is how it supports the other things that I do." Jill K: 18:56 Yes, so that's what you wanna know about my books, how I look at my books mostly? Rochelle M: 19:00 How do you think about them, I'm curious? Jill K: 19:04 Okay, how I think about it is different from both ways that you described it. Rochelle M: 19:08 Good. Jonathan S: 19:08 Perfect. Jill K: 19:09 So we have plan C over here and plan C is, I like puzzles and problems, and I like to figure them out. And every time I figure them out I have a compulsive need to share the answers with people, so I write books. Because what good does it do if I know the answers and have ideas that can make a difference to a whole lot of people, so to me it's a mission driven thing to write the books, I'm compelled to write the books. However, let me say the big however. However, I am very well aware that they are the lifeblood of my business. But I don't write them for the money and I don't write them exactly for getting the business, I write them because they need to be written. Jill K: 19:55 Because I have tackled an issue that people are facing and that I know that they're facing and that they can help people. So that's why I write them, but because I'm a salesperson at heart, you know, I truly do understand that there will be great payback, but it's not my driving force. I mean, I've written some books that ... I mean I actually wrote a book in 2008 for people on how to use selling skills to get jobs when the stock market crashed, or not stock market, but the whole economy crashed, I put a book out there for free. Why? Because people needed to know that you couldn't just go onto Monster.com, you know and put your resume out. They needed to know that they could target companies they wanted to work for and go after them and create job opportunities on their own. Jill K: 20:40 So I wrote a book and just gave it away. Jonathan S: 20:43 Yeah and that's sort of a good segue into the absolute wealth of information and variety of formats that you have organized on your website. I mean it's almost overwhelming, you have it organized very nicely so it's not overwhelming but it's just a massive amount of information. Jill K: 21:02 Yes, okay so here's some of the things that you need to know. I have said before that I'm on a mission type thing, and I feel compelled to do this, you know write the selling to big companies book, put stuff out there. 10 years ago, 15 years ago, I can't remember exactly in the time frame, I said to myself, "How can I give my expertise away for free and make good money doing it?" Which is an interesting question to pose. Cause it's doesn't sound like there's an answer. How can I give stuff away for free and make good money doing that? Jill K: 21:40 And at that point I didn't know the answer, but one of the things I've always done is I've posed the question to myself, you know, like I said, how can I help these small businesses who don't know how to sell and don't have any money, how can I serve them? And you know, my brain works on it for three to four months and suddenly one day the answer miraculously appears. So anyway, I did I posed the question, How can I give away my expertise for free and make good money doing it? And a few months later a company contacted me about writing an e-book and they said, "We will market it to the VP of sales." Which is my target demographic and I knew that their technology, you know, it was good for them to bless my work and for me to create an e-book for them. Jill K: 22:29 SO I wrote an e-book for them, put it out there and three months later D and B called, Dun and Bradstreet called and said, "We saw this book that you wrote for this company and we would really like you to write an e-book for us and we'll share it with our readers." And you know, for Dun and Bradstreet to say that it was pretty cool, right? I mean, again, they had a division that was going after VP's of sales, my target readers. And so we talked and kinda focused on what the e-book would be like and I'm talking an e-book probably of two to three thousand words, just for context for people. And they would do the design of the e-book and I would simply do the words. Jill K: 23:05 So we got done talking, had honed in on the topic and then the lady from D and B said to me, "How much do you charge for this?" And now I thought I was doing an e-book from a pure marketing perspective and when she said that I stopped and I said to myself, "Oh my God, people pay for this kinda stuff." And so I said, "3,000 dollars." And she said, "Oh, we can afford that." Okay, that's interesting. Jill K: 23:41 So I wrote a nice e-book sharing my expertise, Dun and Bradstreet gave it away for free and I made 3,000 dollars. And it was a one week project, not bad. Cause that's also becoming a marketing piece for me out there, do you know what I'm saying? Jonathan S: 23:57 Sure. Jill K: 23:58 Now I'm giving away my expertise for free to people who need it and I'm getting paid for it. So then the first company that asked me to write the e-book called back said, "That e-book was the best thing we've ever had, we've had more downloads from a lead generation standpoint, it has been tremendous, we would like you to write another one." And I said, "I would love to do that, but you know I'm really busy right now, and I'm gonna have to charge you to do it, cause it would take away from my work time." And they said, "Oh, how much?" And I said, "4,000 dollars." And they said, "Yeah, we can afford that." Jill K: 24:36 So I took another week and wrote another e-book, you know didn't write the whole time but just kinda thought about it, gave it some structure and then filled in the meat. Again, two to three thousand words, and then I realized that my expertise was a revenue source, and it didn't hit me til that point. So what most consultants don't understand is that there are companies, first of all they serve a certain demographic, like I serve and am an expert for sales people and somebody else might be an expert in pricing, somebody else might be an HR consultant on laws of some sort. There are people out there who sell things to the people we're trying to do work with, you know, like there's a whole bunch of technology people that sell things to my clients, you know, the kinda people I work with, the kinda people I write for. Jill K: 25:27 And so I literally created a business model where I did a couple things, number one I created content and I still do, I create content for companies who are trying to reach salespeople, and I get paid really good money to create e-books. My daughter when she was out of college, in her 20's went to work for a company that was an agency and she actually wrote articles and blog posts for Linkedin and e-books for Linkedin and her agency was paid 20,000 dollars to write an e-book, so now I raised my fee. Rochelle M: 26:02 Yeah. Jill K: 26:04 And get paid 20,000 dollars to write an e-book. Because kids that were right out of college were writing these e-books from agencies and they were getting expert opinions and putting it together where I who am the expert can sit down, you know and write e-books and then they have the authority of my expertise as opposed to just Linkedin e-books. So they can market it better. So lead generation is crucial for a lot of companies today, they're desperately searching for content, content can be delivered in multiple formats, I have written e-books, now I'm doing interviews with people as part of my content, I've done video segments from a content perspective. I've done podcasts, you know, I do webinars, I get paid to do webinars, which they use, "Oh we're having a webinar with Jill Konrath and you know sign up, it's free." Jill K: 26:53 But it's free for the people who sign up, but it's not free, I'm not giving away my time, I'm being paid to do it cause I'm an expert in this field. And so I have an entire business model that is set on giving away stuff for free and making good money doing it. Rochelle M: 27:08 Wow. I love that explanation, Jonathan I'm picturing our listeners going, "really? I can do that?" Jill K: 27:16 Oh my God, you guys there's so much money in lead generation, people are paying 10 or 20 thousand dollars to have an e-book and you don't even have to be an expert, you know like a well known expert, you could easily charge like I said, I started at 4,000 dollars to have an e-book that was marketed to my target market. So other companies are blessing me by saying, "here's an expert" they're putting me in front of my targeted client who's getting free advice and I'm making good money. And word comes from that, that's what you've gotta realize, it does come back to me in a different way. Jill K: 27:52 The other thing I've found and a lot of people don't realize this too is the importance of having a good database as a consultant, a database, a newsletter list. Because and here's what I can tell you I discovered, again I reach a certain demographic and a few years back after I asked that question, "How can I give away my expertise for free and make good money doing that?" You know, I write this newsletter and somebody approached me and said we have a client who would like to know if you would write about this e-book in your newsletter, or if you'd promote this e-book in your newsletter. And I said, "I don't promote other people's stuff in my newsletter, you know, I just write my stuff." Jill K: 28:35 And they said, "Could we pay you to do that?" And I said, "Why don't you send me the e-book and I'll take a look at it?" And they sent me this e-book that was written and it was perfect for my audience, I mean they would love it, it was well written, it wasn't promotional at all, it was really excellent content and they paid me 4,000 dollars to do that, you know it's like, oh my God, all I had to do was send a newsletter to my database, all I had to do, "Here's a really good e-book on this. When you read it you'll discover ..." And I had three bullet points and then at the bottom I'd write complements of my vendor, and I'd have a link, you know. Jill K: 29:15 And I'd be paid to do that. So once I discovered that my database was an asset, I started building my database so I could charge more. I know, but it allows me to give away good stuff for free and to get paid doing it, which allows me to stop and create more new content. It's the creation stuff that's fun for me, so how can I constantly be in a creation mode and give my stuff away for free so I can create new stuff. Rochelle M: 29:43 Well and this sense of mission that you have just kind of bleeds into everything which I love, I feel like that's your fuel. Jill K: 29:51 Yeah, it is my fuel, I mean you know money used to be my fuel and since I discovered, I mean when I got hooked on helping small businesses, which ultimately I did this selling to big companies stuff, suddenly everything changed and my business kind of exploded on me when I was really trying to be more generous with the world, does that make sense? And so something and it really did explode on me and everything changed and I became the internationally recognized person, but that was never ever my goal. But I became that. Rochelle M: 30:27 Wow. Jonathan S: 30:29 How do speaking engagements figure into the mix? Jill K: 30:32 Well I don't do consulting anymore, okay, I literally had to make a choice a few years ago, probably seven years ago now. Much as I love doing consulting work, what I discovered was that doing consulting work was ... my whole brain got wrapped up in my client, you know what I mean? You get so immersed in the work and every creative thought I had was, "Oh God how am I gonna solve that? Or what am I gonna do? How do I fix that?" And it took up all my creative energy and I had made a decision then that I could either serve one client really well or I could serve a variety of people out there. And so I made a choice to serve a variety of people and to serve the world as opposed to my one client, which meant I had to walk away from consulting entirely and move into speaking, which is not something I'd done too much of, you know. Jill K: 31:27 So then I had to become a speaker, which is something I never wanted to do, but I became one because I wanted to share what I learned. I feel like I'm a real oddball here talking, but it's like if you're sort of on this mission and you've learned this stuff about you know how to sell to these companies, or how to be more successful or how to, you know how to get your life back in order, those are important things. I want people to know then so they don't have to go through the same learning curve that I had to go through. Jill K: 32:01 So how does speaking fit in? Speaking fits Jill K: 32:00 ... curve that I had to go through. How does speaking feed in? Speaking feeds in because I get paid well to do it and it gives me a chance to be in front of more people, and to have a broader impact. But it pays really, really well. Rochelle M: 32:16 You've got an international footprint, yes? Jill K: 32:18 Yes. Last month I was in Milan, Italy. Wrapped a nice vacation around it so it was a lot of fun. Jonathan S: 32:27 Nice. Rochelle M: 32:28 That sounds perfect. Jill K: 32:29 It was perfect. Jonathan S: 32:36 It feels like each of these different sorts of packaging of your expertise, each of these different offerings if you will even if they're free, blogposts and e-books and worksheets and videos and speeches and books. They all ... sort of like what people refer to as a flywheel effect where you've got this very, very clear focus at the hub, in the center. And everything just revolves around it. It's adding a little bit. And once it's going, adding more energy to that motion just keeps it in motion, keeps it accelerating. Jill K: 33:15 Yeah. It does. Jonathan S: 33:16 I'm curious if there were any spikes or anything in particular that you noticed really noticed upped the ante for you? Was very successful for you and got you to a new level? I don't know, one of the books perhaps being super successful. Or was it ... Was there anything in particular that you could share with the listeners that you look back and say, "That ..." Maybe you didn't know it at the time but, "Man. That was smart. That really worked out for me." Jill K: 33:45 Oh man. A lot of things have worked out for me. Jonathan S: 33:53 It seems that way. And that was a perfectly good answer. I'm kind of hoping you say, "No," because- Jill K: 33:58 There's no magic here. Jonathan S: 33:59 Right. Jill K: 33:59 I mean like I said, this wasn't my goal. My goal was to do the work and to get paid a living wage. Have a good enough income that I felt decent about the work that I was doing. Jill K: 34:09 I have passed up a significant number of revenue opportunities that have come my way. And I have chosen not to do certain things because of lifestyle choices. You know, I do speak but man, I'm not promoting myself as somebody who's on the road 250 days a year. That's like crazy for me. I don't want to do that. Speaking 20 times a year is sufficient. You can tell I'm not totally driven by money but I'm making really good money, you know? I have been approached numerous times to do online training courses and I have not done them. I've not done them. Jonathan S: 34:46 What's the thinking there? Jill K: 34:48 Well because I have seen a lot of people do them and I am very aware that it's not about the training program. A lot of people have created really good training programs. They've invested a ton of money in these things. And then in order to be profitable, they have to go into marketing mode and they have to have a large enough footprint out there from a database perspective or they have to be constantly marketing. And I don't want to do that. I want to give away my stuff for free and make good money doing it. Jill K: 35:21 It's more fun for me to give it away. So I found another way so I don't have to keep selling programs. I just keep giving away stuff. And I go to companies and say, "I have an idea for something on how I can help you," and I pitch my ideas to companies about how I can create content. How I can create content that they can leverage. And what people don't realize is the lead generation machines of companies are desperate for content. If you have a niche and an expertise in a certain area, there are somebody who's trying to reach the person that you work with. I don't care if it's auditors or warehouse foremen. Somebody's trying to reach them. Jill K: 36:08 And who are these companies who are selling to these people and how can you create some good content that they can give away for free to attract these people into their database because they need to talk to them. They want something that is good. We're experts and we don't value our content. But they're paying kids out of college big bucks to write articles or to write e-books or to do things that we, who are experts, could do and do it so much better than. Jill K: 36:39 I mean to me that's an opportunity that virtually every consultant is totally blind to. I went to speak at National Speakers Association at one of their events a few years back. And I was explaining this to people. And again, most people look at me like, "I couldn't do that. That's really weird." But one guy came up to me afterwards. He said, "I am an expert in aging population and how to take care of aging parents." That's his expertise. And he said, "I have a 30000 word document right now that I was thinking of putting out as a book." He said, "What you've done is you've given me an idea." And he went to New York Life Insurance company with his idea because they had a product on elderly care product. And he sold them, his first time out contacting New York Life, going after the lead generation or demand generation department in their marketing arena and talk with them about creating an e-book on how to take care of your elderly parents or how do you decide on which senior place is the best for your elderly parents. And $30000 you know? On his first time out. And he already had the content. Rochelle M: 37:51 Not bad. Jill K: 37:52 You don't make that much from writing a book usually, you know what I mean? Jonathan S: 37:56 Not your first one. Jill K: 37:56 Not your first one. No. Rochelle M: 37:56 Exactly. Jonathan S: 37:59 I'm having my own light bulb moment here because I've actually been hired to do things like you're describing. And it never occurred to me that they were anything other than random one off edge cases where I've written a bunch of books. The target market is always software developers, specifically web developers, and have been hired by big companies to essentially do exactly to the letter what you're describing here. Jill K: 37:59 And? Jonathan S: 38:26 And it was great. It's great money. It's exactly what you're saying. It's great money. It's great exposure. You get to share ideas for free. You get the third party endorsement of whoever, Nokia or Cisco or whoever else, Intel. Jill K: 38:44 Yeah. Right. Jonathan S: 38:46 But the shoe that never dropped for me, was that you could actually go after that kind of work specifically. It just seemed to me so random and so ... I mean now that you're saying it, it's obvious that it's not. But it never even occurred to me to think like, "Oh. That could be my whole business." It surely could have. Jill K: 39:08 I mean the two things about leveraging my database and sharing information about good webinars that are coming up or good e-books that other companies have written and the combination of doing my own content creation for companies was 50% of my revenue last year. And it was fun work. Jonathan S: 39:25 Right. It is fun. Jill K: 39:26 And you know some of the projects, some of the e-books that I wrote in the last couple years and talking with people, I interview some of their best clients. And I write up like ... One e-book I did was for a company called Velocify that does software for inside sales, inside sales people that call on the phone. And they had me interview five VPs of Sales that are running high performance teams, sales teams. Jill K: 39:55 And I wrote an e-book. It was fast, it was fun to do because I got to talk to all these five people and get inside their brain. And these are, again, people like my customers, you know. I got to interview them and then I got to write up seven things I learned from them in an e-book. The 7 Characteristics of Top Performing Sales Leaders. You know it was like, "Oh that was fun. It gave me more recent connectivity with my base. I got to ask insightful questions. They were delighted to be included in the project. It's like, "Man. This is cool work." Rochelle M: 40:30 Win, win, win. Jill K: 40:31 Win, win, win. Win, win, win. Yeah. Jonathan S: 40:33 So if someone was going to ... I know specific individuals who are more ... I think they would refer to themselves as copywriters or data analysts and they don't see themselves as maybe as big of an expert at their area of expertise than I would consider them to be. Who I imagine will listen to this and not perhaps be skeptical or clueless about what next steps to take if maybe they are interested in experimenting with these ideas. As a sales expert, what would somebody in a situation like that do as a first step? Jill K: 41:12 First. So if you wanted to do this to make money doing? Like what I was just describing? Jonathan S: 41:19 Right. You know you said that companies are desperate for lead generation. Jill K: 41:23 They really are. Jonathan S: 41:23 College kids to do it. I know for sure that there are tons of listeners of this show and also another show that I do that are just ... They say all the time, "People don't value what I do. What I do is a commodity." They're trying to sell themselves by the hour on Upwork. They're competing with people in the Philippines who are charging $3 an hour. They feel like giving up frankly. And this is a very, very interesting approach that has never occurred to me consciously before but I wouldn't know where to recommend that they start. Jill K: 42:01 Right. Most people don't because they don't understand sales. They don't understand lead generation either. They just don't think that people are doing that. But if they understood, first of all, that companies are desperately trying to get people in to their database so that they can initiate conversations with them about potentially buying a product or service. Jill K: 42:25 The first place you have to start is saying, "Well who are the people that I'm continually working with? Is it Purchasing? Is it Marketing? CMOs? Where am I working?" And you have to say then, "Who is trying to sell these people things?" And honestly, if you're working in Marketing and selling with CMOs, you could talk to the CMO and say, "You know, what kind of things do you make decisions about?" And they might say, "Well, we make decisions about technology. There's a lot of marketing technology right now. Or we make decisions about this or that." Jill K: 43:01 Whatever they tell you, then you have to find out what companies are in that business. But if you're selling to the CMO, which technologies are trying to reach the CMO? Or if you're selling to an attorney or law firm, which companies are trying to reach law firms to sell them what? What products and services? And you have to just start thinking about it and start researching the companies. And there's no shortcut to do that. Jill K: 43:26 But once you start researching the companies and you say, "Oh this company sounds like ... It's kind of aligned with what I do. And we're kind of talking the same thing. I'm just helping on the edges of it." Then you have to look and you have to go to LinkedIn and you have to look and google things like demand generation or lead generation and find out who's in their Marketing department. And take a look if they have any -- I go to their website and I'd take a look -- are they offering any e-books? Do they have webinars? Do they have infographics. I've been paid a lot of money for one page cheat sheets too. Little one page cheat sheets. Blah, blah, blah. I can't talk. A little one page cheat sheet that I've written. I got $3000 for writing something that I already knew and that didn't take very long. Jill K: 44:21 But just going to the website and seeing are they doing lead generation on their website. And you can tell they're doing it if you have to fill out your name for something and give them an email address. Then you know they're doing lead generation, right? Jonathan S: 44:35 Sure. It's obvious. Jill K: 44:36 It's obvious. So once you know, yes they are leveraging lead generation and you don't want to talk somebody into it because they don't get it. You want to always work somebody who gets it. And see what they have. And see if you can think of an idea to add something else. Jill K: 44:55 Like the one I was talking about before with Velocify. I went to them with an idea because I checked out their website and they didn't have anything on onboarding sales people. Nothing. Nothing. And so I suggested that they might want to consider that and let's talk. You can send out an email to the head of lead gen. By the way not just one because if you look at any of my books, you'll find out it takes eight to ten touches, contacts in order for this person to get back to you. But you initiate contact and you suggest an idea, then you state that you've been on their website, it looks like their doing lead generation. You have some ideas on how to create an e-book or do a webinar, whatever it is that you want to create yourself. And just suggest that you set up a time to talk. It's not pitching them on your writing skills. It's suggesting that you have an idea that might help them generate more leads. Jonathan S: 45:54 And generating more leads, as we all know, is a very desirable business outcome for certain people. Jill K: 45:59 Oh my God. Yes. It's what they want. And if it's in your area of expertise, you know this stuff and you can write an e-book and being paid $10000 or whatever to sit down and write an e-book in one week, that's 2000 to 3000 words. Jonathan S: 46:14 Mm-hmm (affirmative). Right. Jill K: 46:15 That's not a lot of writing. My first two books are 60000 words and my second two are about 40000 to 45000, so. Jonathan S: 46:26 Yeah it's super doable. It's just great. This is great. Rochelle M: 46:29 I just want to point out to our audience that the key is knowing who you're serving. Knowing who your sweet spot is. Being crystal clear is going to help you. You can't start this without knowing that. Jill K: 46:42 You can't. Jonathan S: 46:48 Yeah, it's critical. The whole idea falls apart if you don't have that. Jill K: 46:48 It sort of goes back to ... You talked about selling to big companies at the onset. I mean selling to big companies is about really knowing who your target market is. Who am I going after? Who is this company? Who is the specific buyer? What value do I bring? It's about focusing and creating a conversation with somebody you want to reach. It all goes full circle. Jonathan S: 47:12 Well that's a perfect segue into a wrap-up. Rochelle M: 47:16 That's where I was going. [inaudible 00:47:18] better myself. Perfect. Jonathan S: 47:20 Well thanks so much for joining us Jill. This has been solid gold, just really, really great. Where should people go to find out more about you and your books and all the other wonderful things that you have available? Jill K: 47:31 JillKonrath.com. That's it. JillKonrath.com. Jonathan S: 47:35 Perfect. Jill K: 47:35 Konrath with a K. Jonathan S: 47:37 Yes. We will absolutely link all of this up in the show notes. Jill with a J. Konrath with a K. Jill K: 47:44 Yeah. Jonathan S: 47:47 Alright great. Well thanks again for joining us. Rochelle M: 47:49 Thank you so much. Jonathan S: 47:51 That'll do it for the Business of Authority. Thank you so much for joining us and we'll talk to you again next week. Bye. Rochelle M: 47:57 Bye bye.

You’ve probably got at least a half-dozen bios (or maybe wish that’s ALL you had): your website ABOUT page, article bios/bylines, industry association profiles, speaking bio, media bio, LinkedIn profile, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, even your email signature… What constitutes a truly kick-ass bio? How far should you go in adding personality and sizzle to yours? And the big question: first person or third? This week we dig down into what makes your bio(s) compelling and irresistible to the right audience. Talking Points What types of bios do I need? How personal should my bio be? What is the difference between a press page and an about page? Should my bio be written in the first person or third? What should my social media bios include? How can I experiment with different versions of my bio? Links Your Bio Needs A Makeover If... When Your Bio Needs A Makeover Quotable Quotes "Write your bio like you talk.” JS "When you talk in the first person, you have to own every single thing you say."—RM "First person is not only good because it helps you relate to people more quickly, but it also forces you to be authentic."—RM "You can’t beat on your chest saying how wonderful you are, you have to lead them to it with breadcrumbs."—RM "You can experiment with email signatures easily—you can change it depending on who you’re sending it to and no one else can really see it."—JS "Another great place to experiment is an in-person networking event where you can just tweak the language to see what clicks with people."—JS "Your bio is the connective tissue to your audience.” RM "Getting your headline really punchy is worth putting some effort into.” JS

What does it take to become a true thought leader? On this week's episode, we separate building thought leadership from building authority and show you how to decide if becoming a thought leader is the right direction for you.

What's your vision for your business? Talking Points What's the point of having a vision for your business? What's the difference between vision and mission or purpose or big idea? What skills do you need to be developing (or discarding)? How do financial goals fit into your vision? How far out should you think with your business vision? What about me-focused vs you-focused vision statements? How do values play into your vision? Quotable Quotes "If you want to make forward progress, you need to know which way forward is."—JS "A vision isn't something you change like your socks."—RM "Get clear on the big picture first, and then you can tinker with tactics for the rest of your life."—RM "Decide where to point the car before you mash on the gas."—JS "Tactics are attractive because they represent a small commitment. Strategy is a big commitment and therefore it feels scary."—RM "There is a 'unified theory of you' in there somewhere."—JS

Are you being a perfectionist... or just procrastinating? Talking Points How do you know when something is done? Are you being a perfectionist or just procrastinating? What things bring out the perfectionist in you? Quotable Quotes "If you want things to get better, you have to change something."—JS "People aren't really looking at your website that much."—RM "Your current clients don't go to your website."—JS "Social media has made things both better and worse for perfectionists."—RM "You have to start."—RM "Press publish."—JS "If your thing will make your audience better today than they were yesterday, you owe it to them to release it."—RM "There's only one way to learn how to screw up like a pro."—JS "If your ideas don't get aired, they can't take flight."—RM "If you want to be an authority, you have to put yourself out there."—JS "Perfect is in the eye of the beholder."—RM "You have to put your work out there if you want it to get better."—JS Links We Mentioned The Fear by Phiip Morgan The Resistance by Steven Pressfield Just F***ing Ship by Amy Hoy Noah Kagan YouTube Marcus Blankenship YouTube Anthony English LinkedIn Jonathan's Reading List Jonathan's book The Freelancer's Roadmap Seth Godin Interview - How to Dance with Fear

A few ways to think about how speaking might fit into your business strategy. Talking Points Three different types of speaking strategies What business models make the most sense for speaking The three stages of building a speaking practice Should you ever speak for free? How a product/service ladder comes into play when speaking The importance of knowing what you're selling and to whom Links We Mentioned Million Dollar Speaking by Alan Weiss Steal The Show by Michael Port

Diversify your revenue streams by packaging your expertise in a variety of different ways.

Talking Points What's the one thing that you want to be known for? How do figure out what you're ridiculously reliable at? What do people expect from or get from you? Who should you interview to become more self-aware? What should you do once you uncover what others rely on you for? Quotable Quotes "Ask yourself, 'What do people get when they get me?'"—RM "It's hard to read the label from inside the bottle."—JS (quoting unknown person) "Double down on what makes you unique."—RM "Sometimes people value qualities in you that you think are negatives."—RM Links We Mentioned The Brain Audit by Sean D'Souza

The pros and cons of working solo vs building a firm. Are you thinking about building a firm? Rochelle and I explore the pros and cons from every angle on this week's show. Talking Points What's the difference between a building a firm and hiring support staff? Can you grow a business without hiring junior employees? How to decide which approach is right for you. Are there ways to experiment with building a firm without betting the business on it? What are the differences between hiring contractors and employees? Don't let the market turn you into something you hate. Quotable Quotes "When you're playing with other people's lives, small leaps are better."—RM "If you're not ready to fire someone, you're not ready to hire someone."—JS "To build a firm, you need cash, patience, and humility."—RM

Some thoughts on how to attract your true fans. True Fans On this week's TBOA, Rochelle and I share some tips on how to attract your true fans. Talking Points You have to share your expertise freely and often enough to keep the audience warm. Sharing provocative ideas will attract good clients and drive away bad clients. If you're not creating any haters, you're not doing it right. Choose a medium that you're comfortable with and is popular with your audience. Quotable Quotes "A true fan is someone who will buy anything and everything that you produce." —Kevin Kelly "A daily writing practice builds true fans very quickly" —JS "If your work is mostly about executing then it's harder to find the time to invest in the kinds of things that are going to attract true fans." —RM "The problem with implementation work it is too easy to get sucked in to what the client wants you to do." —RM "Any stage you can be on where you can build intimacy with people is going to build true fans." —RM Links 1000 True Fans Pricing Creativity with guest Blair Enns

The pros, cons, ins, and outs of writing for your audience every day. Daily Writing Practice - Brilliant or Insane? Talking Points The difference between daily and weekly habits How an email list is different from a blog Why it’s important to respect privacy concerns in a community Why journaling doesn’t count How to write about the same thing every day without boring everyone How often should you reply to your list When to keep a rigid schedule and when not to Links Jonathan’s article about writing daily Jonathan’s daily list archive Jonathan’s student glossary Jonathan’s daily list sign-up Philip Morgan’s daily list Seth Godin’s daily list Bob Lefsetz’s daily list Building Community with guest Madalyn Sklar The #ASKGARYVEE Show Ulysses App Quotable Quotes "Writing daily is actually easier than writing weekly" —JS "I wake up, I put on my pants, I brush my teeth, and I write. It’s just something I do every day." —JS "Thinking harder doesn’t solve everything." —JS "Someone who's used to billing by the hour can start to feel like a supplicant. That is not where you want to be as an independent." —RM "Your idea gets better when more people share it and play with it and give you feedback." —RM "An email list is a closed community." —RM "When you write every day, your bs falls away." —JS "Text is where I play with my ideas." —RM

The more you know about your ideal clients, the easier it will be to attract them. On this week's TBOA, Rochelle and I talk about client avatars: what is it, how to create one, and why you should care. Talking Points What exactly is a client avatar? Questions to ask yourself to uncover your client avatar Deciding how many client avatars you should have How to make ideal clients more receptive to your message The value of sharing stories of transformation Links The Brain Audit by Sean D'Souza Book Yourself Solid by Michael Port Value-Based Fees by Alan Weiss Enjoy! —JS & RM

Just how easy (or hard) do you make it for you customers to work with you? On this week's TBOA, Rochelle and I talk about just how easy you should make it for clients to work with you. Talking Points Putting up hurdles for clients can be a good idea, but only if they're intentional The types of product sales that should be frictionless, and the ones that shouldn't When to require that clients jump through hoops How to know when your marketing and sales processes are attracting the wrong kind of people What to do when money and trust are not enough to get a client to make a change What if your clients have a problem that they're embarrassed to ask for help with? Quotes "I'd rather put needles in my eyes than learn Asana."—RM "The teacher tells you what to do, and you do it or you can leave."—JS "If you let clients push you around in the sales process, don't be surprised when the push you around during the project."—JS "You don't get 'speakers block' when you're talking to someone you know well."—JS "Once it's on your website, you tend to forget about it."—RM Enjoy! —JS & RM

Finding the threads in your own material.

How to package your expertise in ways that will increase your impact and revenue.

How and why to establish a POV for your brand. Links Elon Musk's First Principles Thinking Amazon's Flywheel Concept Blair Enns' Manifesto

Publicity advice (and war stories) from PR strategist Ramona Russell. Links Ramona's website Keep California Safe

Who can you help today?

Using your marketing to filter out bad fit clients and customers.

Are you being frugal or are you afraid?

What you need to do BEFORE you start writing a book.

Which ideas you should validate, which you shouldn't, and how to do it if you're going to.

Twitter expert Madalyn Sklar explains how to build a community around your big idea. Madalyn Sklar is a social media power influencer, blogger, podcaster, and #TwitterSmarter chat host. She joins us on this episode to share decades of experience building online communities. Links Madalyn's website Madalyn's twitter

Having "clients for life" isn't always a good idea.

Is the notion of retirement dead? Links A mission with no exit

How to stop trading time for money. Links Ditching Hourly Hourly Billing Is Nuts

Different ways to think about monetizing your expertise.

Guest Blair Enns gives us a look behind the scenes of creating his new book Pricing Creativity. Blair's Bio Blair Enns is a 25-year veteran of the business side of the creative professions. In 2002, he launched Win Without Pitching, which has worked with thousands of creative professionals in numerous countries through direct engagements, seminars, workshops & webcasts. Blair is the author of "The Win Without Pitching Manifesto" and the forthcoming "Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour" Links Pricing Creativity Win Without Pitching 2Bobs Podcast Blair on Twitter Blair on LinkedIn Implementing Value Pricing: A Radical Business Model for Professional Firms The Curtis Creek Manifesto Transcript Jonathan: Hello and welcome to The Business of Authority. I'm Jonathan Stark. Rochelle: And I'm Rochelle Moulton. Jonathan: And today, we're very excited to be joined by guest Blair Enns. Blair is the founder and CEO of Win Without Pitching and the author of the Win Without Pitching Manifesto, and the forthcoming Pricing Creativity: Guide To Profit Beyond the Billable Hour. Did I get that right Blair? Blair: You got it right Jonathan thank you. Jonathan: Stressful :-) I am very excited and I [00:00:30] know Rochelle's very excited to have you on the show. We have just a lot in common, I've been following your work for years, we've read a lot of the same authors and we're super excited to talk about how you've taken this big idea, which to me started with the Manifesto, perhaps it had its roots before that, and turned it into a consulting business and then later a training business, and now hopefully, fingers crossed, a bestselling author. So, could we start off by just [00:01:00] giving folks a little bit of background about who you are and what you do now and then we can sort of delve into the history? Blair: Yeah, sure. And thank you to both of you for having me on the podcast. I'm really looking forward to this and happy to be here. My name is Blair Ends, the company is Win Without Pitching and I founded it back in 2002, early 2002. At the time, it was a consulting practice, a new business development, sales or new business development consulting to creative [00:01:30] firms, typically independent creative firms, and I had come out of about a dozen years of working in advertising agencies and design firms and thought I'd launch this consulting practice. So that was the first iteration of Win Without Pitching. And then over the years, beginning in late 2012, and I'm sure we'll get into this, I decided to shift the structure of the company from a solo consulting practice to a training company. So that's where we are now in late 2017, [00:02:00] early 2018. Win Without Pitching is about five years into its current incarnation as a training company. And for a few years; 2013, 14, it was both as I kind of played with training and had to make a decision about going one way or the other. So we've been a pure training company for about three years. It really feels like this business is about three years old, but really it's more like 16. Jonathan: Wow. And [00:02:30] before that, you were from the agency world, you were inside the agency world, yes? Blair: Yeah, I worked for some of the world's largest advertising agencies and some of its smallest design firms. I was a suit, I don't own a suit anymore. Although my latest social media profile pic has me in a suit. I had a borrow a tie from my 18 year old son for that photo and I own one jacket. But I was a suit for many years and then I moved to this little mountain [00:03:00] village in the middle of nowhere where we live now when I started the consulting practice. So there's this kind of shift in the personal life that was the impetus for the business change. And I had a Hugo Boss bonfire when I moved out here, got rid of all the suits. But I was a suit doing account services and new business at a very young age in the first ad agency I ever worked. When at I was 22, I was handed responsibility for new business. I wasn't great at it but I did have some natural skills at [00:03:30] it. So yeah, I came out of the account management and new business side of both advertising and design. Jonathan: Okay. So, how do you go from there to writing the Manifesto? Blair: Well, the Manifesto I wrote I think in late 2005, early 2006 so I had been running the consulting business for three or four years at that time. And the name, I think the of the business is kind of a fluke and I've been [00:04:00] told by some of my closest professional friends that, "Yeah, Win Without Pitching is a stupid name, you need to change the name." On some level, I think it is maybe not an appropriate, maybe not the appropriate ... There's something about the name that can sound a little bit schlocky maybe, like some sort of false promise, but on the other hand, that name has driven me to ... It's really a great label for how I've always thought about new business, [00:04:30] and it's forced me to come at the subject matter from that perspective that is really true to me. And I think that's really been the difference, whether it's been a consulting practice or a training company or a book that I've written, i's always coming from that win without pitching perspective. So the name came first, the business came first. And then in, I think it was, yeah, it was late 2005, I think early 2006, where I [00:05:00] was writing a piece. I've published an article, a blog post for years, for 16 years, either somewhere between weekly and monthly. And at the time, I think I was publishing closer to monthly. And I wanted something for the end of the year. So I tried on, I had this idea of like just wrapping up all of my philosophy into a few short pithy statements. And I was also trying on tone of voice. I'm a huge fan of Manifestos, [00:05:30] and I kind of collect them and I've read most of the big ones. I think the biggest, most important book ever written and religious people will be horrified at this, I think the most important book ever written might be the Curtis Creek Manifesto. And I won't say anything more about that, people can go look at it and think, "Huh? What are you talking abut?" Order it, give it to every 12 year old you know and you'll change the world. I was writing a blog post and it was trying on [00:06:00] a new voice, I was trying on a Manifesto voice. And at the time, and even for a few years after, it was the riskiest thing I'd ever written, just because the tone was so different. And I thought it was going to be taken as too over the top. Like it's almost the biblical [inaudible 00:06:14] We shall, etc. It's 12 proclamations, it's not chapters I imagine Martin Luther nailing something like this to the church door. So I was quite nervous when I hit publish. And then the response was really gratifying and inspiring, [00:06:30] because people were telling me that they had ... some designers that actually typeset it and put it on a poster and actually put it on their wall. And I kept getting feedback like that for a long time. So when it came time to write a book, and if you want to be seen as the expert in your space, then you probably should write a book. And I was feeling the pressure to write a book. But it didn't have a format, it didn't have kind of a narrative structure or I didn't [00:07:00] know ... Otherwise, it would just been a book of lists. And then I thought based on the success of that post, maybe I'm going to frame a book based on this. And I'm so glad I did. I'm really happy with this book, seven and a half years later. I'm surprised to say that I'm still really happy with this book. Jonathan: That's great. To have a shelf life it's that long, there's no reason it couldn't continue to grow. Nothing in it is really dated, it's completely ... Rochelle: [00:07:30] It's evergreen. Blair: Yeah. I set out to write a timeless book. And my intention for the book was I would create something that would outlive me. And so, there is nothing in it, as both of you point out, it's kind of evergreen content, there's nothing in there that will be dated. There's nothing about the design, the design looks like it was like dug up from a lock box and it could be from any time. In fact, one of the first things I did with this book, once I decided on the fact that it would be a Manifesto, is I [00:08:00] had to decide what size would it be. So I took a bunch of different books that I owned and ... I just had a sense of how the size of the book, so I took something that was the right thickness, but it was too large a format, and I cut it down. And I said, "I want the book to be this size." And this isn't the way books ... So I wrote to the size because I wanted a designer, somebody who maybe doesn't do a lot of in-depth reading, I wanted them to be able to read it on a typical plane ride; like on a two hour plane ride. I wanted [00:08:30] it to fit into a purse, into a laptop bag, on a toilet tank. And then so once I got the physical, I had the structure, this 12 proclamations Manifesto structure. And then I had the size, and then I hired a designer who when he's not doing his day job, he designs typefaces for Bibles. Jonathan: Nice. Blair: Yeah. I thought, "Well, for a creative audience, it either has to be really well designed or it has [00:09:00] to just be all about the words," and I wanted it to be all about the words. And I wanted it to be somebody who is fanatic fanatical about type. So I hired Brian Soy. His firm is called Aspire and it's not book design isn't their day job, but they do. In fact, they're just finishing up my next book, Pricing Creativity. But he's a nut about type. And I remember he came to a seminar I did in Miami Beach years ago, I remember walking down the main drag, is Ocean Drive, I forget, in Miami [00:09:30] Beach. And him just like pointing out all the art deco fonts and thinking ... in all of the hotels and buildings that we were going past. So the rest of us are in this conversation about something else and he's just going crazy over typefaces. Jonathan: Yeah. It's awesome down there for that. And it was a big success. It's how I heard about you. In fact, I know who told me about you, no, I take it back. So this is weird and this is, I think, perhaps [00:10:00] a source of some like infusion earlier, which is that I came across this as a blog post first. A friend of mine was, "Blair Enns, Blair Enns, Blair Enns." And he sent me a link to one of the, I don't remember which one it was, but it was one of the proclamations. And I was like, "Yes, yes, this is good. This guy knows what he's talking about." I didn't even realize for a long time that it was bound in any form. I was like, "Oh, this is just this free online thing," which I believe is still true. I believe people can still read [00:10:30] it online. Blair: You can read the entire book for free at WinWithoutPitching.com. Jonathan: Well, now I want the physical one. I want to feel it, put it on my toilet tank. Blair: Where it Belongs. Yes. Jonathan: So, you launched the book, and people are printing it out on their walls, I would count that as a big success. And I've seen a number of videos of you sort of giving [00:11:00] presentations, which I know came after that time because you reference the Manifesto in the talks. What was that, period? Do you do that anymore? Sounds like you're in a remote area now, so you probably don't. Blair: Yeah. No I do a lot of speaking. In fact, when my next book comes out on January 10th, I've set aside all of 2018 to just travel the world and speak in support of that book. And I didn't have, now that I'm the CEO of a training company and I don't coach or train in our program [00:11:30] anymore. I create curriculum, I work with my team, I take us into the future, I'm in charge of future value creation. I speak and I write. When I was a consultant, I wrote the book and it got me lots of invitations to speak already did pretty good on the speaking front. But it got me a lot of invitations to speak so I did a lot of lectures on the Manifesto around the world. But I was still running a consulting business. And if I'm not consulting then I'm not [00:12:00] sending invoices, and I'm not earning money. I've been fortunate in that I've always been paid well to speak. And what I get paid has increased over the years. I could probably earn a decent living just speaking if I wanted to. But the real money was in consulting. Now we're a training company and I'm not encumbered with that day to day training or operations of the business, I'm free to basically just go and speak, so that's that's a big part of it. And anybody who writes a book, what follows behind [00:12:30] that are a lot of speeches and nowadays a lot of podcasts interviews like this. Jonathan: I imagine it was tough. Well, was it a tough decision to switch from consulting to training or was it, you said you had sort of a shift in where you were living and the bonfire and whatnot. Were you excited to do that or was it scary, was it obvious? Blair: That was the scariest. I look the scariest things that you ever do, at some point soon after you look back on them and think, "Well, that was ... Why was [00:13:00] I so afraid by that?" But picking up our young family and moving to this little village in the middle of nowhere not, not really knowing how we were going to earn a living, that's how Win Without Pitching came to be, it was a necessity. I knew I wanted to kind of get out of the rat race of the city and the advertising profession at the time. Before I left, I was in a horrible job with a difficult boss, I'll say it politely, [00:13:30] and I was ruined for the advertising profession. And then, I was fired from that job, like I engineered my own dismissal, and that's another long story. I thought I would ... And I saw it all building towards a lawsuit. But as I was being relieved of my duties and handed my severance check, I thought, "I'm not going to sue you. I'm never going to see you again." After that I went to work for a really great boss and I was asked to build a satellite office. It had existed [00:14:00] but all the clients had left, to build the satellite office for another creative firm. And that was a great experience that that allowed me to fall in love with the profession again. But I had already decided we were moving to this village in the middle of nowhere, so I told the guy I was working for that I would do it for a year, a year turned into 20 months then I said I had to go. So we moved to this little village in the middle of nowhere and we had a bunch of little kids, we have four children. We had three at the time and the youngest was 6 months old. We had a fourth [00:14:30] a couple of years after moving here. So we were raising a young family and in the early days, Win Without Pitching, it was a lifestyle business. In the summers, it's a beautiful little village we live in on the shore of a 92 mile long lake, home to the largest strain of rainbow trout in the world. It's idyllic, it's as you imagine it. For years, I shared an office with a grizzly bear biologist and a bat biologist. So we really are in this beautiful little mountain village in the mile [00:15:00] of nowhere and it really was a lifestyle business in the early days. And then around 2012, my kids were at a certain age, they no longer really needed dad to be around a lot more and I was working more and more as a consultant. And in November of 2012, I found myself flat on my back with pneumonia in bed for two weeks and it was the fourth time that year that I had gotten some sort of sickness, just run down somewhere. And on three continents. So four times on three continents in one year, I just kind of run myself down as [00:15:30] I was trying to maximize this consulting model. And I had an epiphany while I was kind of recovering, I realized that my business model was trying to kill me, so I'd better kill it first. And that's what I decided to make the shift to. I decided to launch a training program. I recovered and I put together a 13 week training program, sent it out to my market, immediately sold it out. Then did another one, sold that out, did another one sold [00:16:00] that out. So that took me through to 2013. And then for 2014, I strung three programs together into an annual commitment, sold that out. And then I think by 2015 I decided that I couldn't do both. Now, I didn't come to the conclusion that a training business is better than a consulting business. Part of my journey was, I discovered value-based pricing and I realized that the way I was pricing my consulting engagements [00:16:30] and running my consulting engagements was contributing to kind of the stress on my health. I had productized my consulting services. You could do a two day session with me, which would cost X or could be like one day plus a bunch of remote consulting work. I'd package created three or four different packages and I'd put these prices on those packages. And everything I just described violates some of like my new rules of pricing. And I realized as I learned more [00:17:00] about value based pricing, I thought, "Okay. I either need to become a properly value based pricing consultant." By that I mean, I would look at every consulting engagement as a completely blank slate and dive deep into what it is that the client really wanted and how much value I could create, and then craft a really unique engagement that was specific to the client and the value in their situation and the value they were trying to create. So that every engagement would truly [00:17:30] be different and would be priced differently. If I wanted to earn the most money from those engagements, I felt like I needed to be able to say to my clients, "You know what, I'll get on a plane and I'll see the day after tomorrow." Because of where I live, it takes me a day to get anywhere. It sometimes takes me a day to get to an airport. I just couldn't do that. So I felt like if I couldn't properly value price my consulting engagements, then I really needed to go the other way and fully productize [00:18:00] my business. So that's the decision I made. I made the decision to go to a more scalable, productized service business and productized consulting business is a training company. So that's where we are today and it was really driven by the fact that I had kind of maxed out the consulting model the way I was doing it and I was a little bit limited by where I lived. And I felt strongly that I needed to go one way or the other and the easiest way for me to go [00:18:30] would be to go to scale up training company. I was talking to somebody in Austin, Texas about this the other day, somebody who is a consultant, and he was kind of trying on the idea that, well, maybe the evolution of all consulting practices is training companies. And I said, "Man, if I lived in Austin, Texas, I would be a consultant. I would not own a training company. If I had ready access to lots of different creative firms, where I could go in deep and help them more, I'm pretty sure in the short term, in the first five to six years for sure, [00:19:00] I would make way more money and have a bigger impact on a smaller number of clients." But I don't live in Austin, Texas. I live in Kaslo, British Columbia and it makes sense to build a training company. Jonathan: It sounds like, I don't know if this is just because of the compression of time, that we're compressing the timeline, but it sounds like there was a fairly high degree of certainty there based on a series of decisions that you made, particularly about moving, but it seemed like you were pretty clear on what to do, even though there was some fear. Blair: [00:19:30] Yeah I think so. I was doing a live podcast with my podcast cohost. I do a podcast called 2 Bobs. The number 2 Bobs with my friend and colleague David C. Baker, and we doing it live in London two weeks ago and in the Q&A afterwards, we were talking about how different we are from each other. He's very scientific in his approach and he said to me, he said, "You're not afraid of anything." And I thought, "Well, that's not true." But I get these ideas and I just will not be stopped. And I [00:20:00] think I've learned to lean into the fear. And if you know anything as you do about my selling approach, if there's anything uncomfortable in the sale, we teach well, lean into it, go into the dark places, embrace the awkward silence, say the things that the client won't say, the things that most people in that situation would not bring up. It's your job to bring it up. So I think I've learned that when you get these crazy ideas, lean [00:20:30] into them. As an example, I was a couple of years into both offering a training program and I was still consulting. And I was on a plane I was flying to Dallas and I, for whatever reason I decided, "This is my last. I need to pick one one or the other." I knew it was going to be training and I knew at some point it had to no longer consult. So I decided on the plane, "This is my last client." I walked into my client's office the next morning and one of the first things I said is, "I want [00:21:00] you to know this is my last client." And then I went on the plane on the way home I wrote a lengthy blog post called, I think it's called I'm Out. And I said to the world and nobody reads my blog because they want to know what I'm up to, they read it for the guidance. But every once in a while ... So I just published it for me. I wanted to make a proclamation to the world that that's it, I'm out of the consulting business. I'm not doing this anymore. Because I knew if I didn't say [00:21:30] it publicly, then I would probably start doing consulting again. So that's kind of the way I tend to operate, I come up with this idea and then I make this public declaration about what I'm going to do and then I think, "Oh crap, well, I guess I have to do it." Jonathan: Absolutely. You mentioned a couple of times Pricing Creativity, the new book. I have that thing highlighted to death. And I'm very much looking forward to talking to you about the pricing [00:22:00] details or the tools and the techniques that you talked about in there on my pricing podcast; Ditching Hourly. What appears about, in this context is what was your whole thought process about why to do this book, what your plans are for it, is this for you a 150, 200 page business card or is this something you actually want to see on bestseller lists as like an income stream. What are you thinking about there? Blair: Yeah. That's [00:22:30] a great question and I've found myself into some really great conversations about this. The Manifesto is the oversized business card. I refer to it as the Yes You Can book. I want people to read it, put it down. And as an early reader said in a review or somewhere online, he said, "I finished that book and it just makes me want to go wrestle a bear." So I use that line a lot. I want you to go feel like you can go wrestle a bear after that book. There's not a lot of how to end it. It meets a Manifesto, it's not meant to be a how to. [00:23:00] And the pricing book is a 50 ... so the Manifesto is just under 24,000 words, the pricing book is a 57,000 word manual. I wrote it as a manual, it's published as a three ring binder. There are different formats, you can get the ebook, you can get the ebook in the binder, you can get the ebook binder and four hours of video support. But I really wrote it to be like a desk reference, where you would read it once through, I hope it's enjoyable enough, that you can read [00:23:30] most of it through. And then, after that, when it comes time to put together your next proposal, price out your next proposal. I want people to reach out onto the shelf, pull it out, remind themselves of some of the rules and some of the tips, and then flip to the tool section at the back, and use those tools to actually craft their proposal. My vision is, this book will be on the desk or shelf of every creative professional in the world, who is charged with setting or negotiating [00:24:00] price. That is my vision. And I could have published it through a few different mainstream publishers. The Manifesto has generated a lot of interest for me from mainstream publishers, I could have published it that way. But it occurred to me, I'm looking at a bookshelf filled with about 25 books on pricing, and then probably another 25 on economics, most of them behavioral economics. I own all the books on pricing, and some of them have been so [00:24:30] transformative. Ron Baker has been such an positive influence on me on pricing. And the impact he's had on the professional world through his two books on pricing has been phenomenal. But I look at Ron's books and I think, "He should have made millions of dollars with these books." I know he's built a really lucrative career as a speaker, and I don't know if he does consulting or not, but as an author and a speaker, he has built a really good career. So it's not like he's not well rewarded, but I kind of value [00:25:00] conversation with the Global Creative Community without them knowing it, about the impact and value of this book. And I did some quick math and I thought, "I think I can sell between six and 10,000 copies of this book, which is a really big number given the audience and given what I'm charging for it. But I think over seven or eight years I kind of see ... Because I think it'll be bought in bulk and multiple copies from larger firms. I can see it [00:25:30] affecting the bottom line of 2,000 firms, I did the math. Okay, 2,000 firms, let's say, an average size of a million dollars, that's two billion dollars in revenue. I think and I know from anecdotal experience, that this is conservative. I think that the average firm that reads and implements this, can add at least 5% to their bottom line. If you're a million dollar firm, I fully expect that there's no reason why you can't add an extra $50,000 [00:26:00] in profit. And I've talked to Creative Principles to whom I have given pricing advice through our program, and where we just touch on it tangentially in our training program. The profit increase stories just from some of these pricing principles, are just, tenfold increase in profit, I've heard that a lot, doubled profit, tripled profit. I think adding a 5% increase that essentially represents [00:26:30] a 50% increase in most firms. Anyway, that adds up to like 100 million dollars per year, in additional profit for 2,000 smallish creative firms. If I were working as a consultant and these 2,000 firms were just one business, and I said to that business owner, "Listen, I'm pretty confident that I can add $100 million a year to your bottom line." What do you think fair compensation for me as a consultant [00:27:00] would be? The answer would be in the millions of dollars, right? Jonathan: Absolutely. Blair: But there's something about the package that is a book that says, "Well, it doesn't matter if you add hundreds of millions of dollars to the bottom line, if you sell it the traditional way, books should cost between 20 and $40, then you're only going to make so much money." Well, that's ridiculous. So, this book is not sold, it's not available on Amazon, it's only available on our website, Winwithoutpitching.com, go to Pricingcreativity.com, and you'll be redirected. [00:27:30] And it's the first pricing book in the world that is priced based on the principles in the book. When there are three different options, I'm not going to give away too much here, but it starts at $320 a copy. And then there's a $199 version. There's a $100 version. Each of those is fully guaranteed, if you buy at any level. And if it doesn't work for you for whatever reason, sent it back to us, we'll send your money back, no questions asked. So, it's fully guaranteed. [00:28:00] And I want people after they buy the book, I want them to go back to the pricing page on our website. And I want them to see after they read the book. I want them to see, how many of the pricing principles in the book that I've talked about that we actually used in the pricing of this book. I expect, based on the math that I laid out to you, I expect to earn a million dollars in this book. And I think that's fair for me as an author. If I were a consultant, I would view it as an [00:28:30] unfair price. Jonathan: Too low. Rochelle: So the million dollars, you see that coming directly from the book not from doing speeches around the book, not from doing training around the book, totally from the book? Blair: Yeah. Rochelle: That's incredible. Blair: And I had an author say to me when I was in London, he said, "You know, you don't write a book for the money." Well, sometimes you do. Jonathan: I think sometimes you do, I agree. I've written five or six books now depending on how you count it. And I've done through traditional publishers and [00:29:00] self published. And it's different. I think it's important to decide which way you're going to go before you write it. "What's this book for? Is this a business card? Am I staking out a claim to a particular aspect of authority in the world? Or is this a revenue move?" And I think there can be some overlap. There's certainly overlap in the results, but I think knowing which one you're shooting for before you start the project is pretty important. Blair: I [00:29:30] agree and I think probably too many business authors don't actually spend enough time thinking about what the goal of the book is, and therefore what the right way to publish it is or to market it. Like the purpose of this book is value creation, to create value for others, that's the purpose of it. I'm very happy with The Win Without Pitching manifest. I'm happy with the impact it has had on the global creative profession. And I can extrapolate into the future and imagine the impact that it will have with [00:30:00] the long term, and I'm very proud of that. And I have the same expectations, but in different avenue, same expectations for Pricing Creativity book. I really expect this to be the standard in the global creative firm community for many years. I don't think it's going to be timeless, as timeless as the Manifesto, but I expect it to be the standard, to be on people's shelves, and more than the Manifesto, which gets people inspired and gets them believing that there [00:30:30] is another way. This is really the here's how to take those principles and the Manifesto and turn them into real income, real profit for you and your firm. So, yeah, the oversized business card is out there, this is the thing meant to follow up on that, to drive more value creation and obviously, create value for me the author. Jonathan: I totally agree with that. I think the Manifesto was a rallying cry and Pricing Creativity is more of a [00:31:00] playbook, or it's funny that you chose the physical format that you did, because it does remind me of old time software manuals or cookbooks, or it earn and I think it also breaks the way you pointed out earlier as a sort of preconceived notion of how much a book costs. And it's like "Well, this one's a little different." You don't even have to believe the value proposition of the book necessarily, you just look at it and you're like, "Okay, this is different. This is not your regular business book." Blair: If you think of [00:31:30] the training that we sell, so we sell a term of training for anywhere between 2,000 and $15,000, depending on how it's delivered, but the content is essentially the same. And when I started writing this book, for the longest time I thought there was going to be a training program version of it. If you buy the ebook, the manual, which has the added tool section in it, and an advance review copy that you've read Jonathan, doesn't have that tool section in it, but the manual [00:32:00] has it. And then four hours of supporting video around it, you're essentially buying training, so it looks like an expensive book, but it's actually cheap training. And so, we've decided we're not at least for the next year or so, we're not building training around them, around pricing. Our training continues to be around selling, selling The Win Without Pitching Way. We also have some stuff on positioning and regeneration, but we're really a sales training organization. So, this is really deeply discounted training on pricing. [00:32:30] If you look at it that way, it's cheap. If you look at it as a book, and some people will look at it as a book and be outraged at the price, it's expensive. Rochelle: But it's this wonderful integration of the idea of a book in an online course. A lot of people are complaining about online courses now, because you're not getting enough deep content. And I like how you put both of them together here. Blair: Thank you. Even our training program we go out of the way to say it's not an online course. This is [00:33:00] coach led training in classrooms, our coaches have more than 10 years of experience of selling The Win Without Pitching Way, because they were clients of mine more than 10 years ago and have 10 years ... So, and I have nothing against online courses, they are just a lot of them out there, and if you put something into the package of an online course, the price drops. It's like an online courses now, it's now encumbered by the same kind of the limitations of the package as a book is, if you buy [00:33:30] a book on Amazon. So, we're trying to break that paradigm too. Jonathan: It's fascinating, I could talk about pricing all day of course. I think you mentioned the 25 pricing books on your bookshelf, I think I have the same because ... In Pricing Creativity, the first section, I'm not sure, I think you had a different name for it, but the first sort of region of the book is, for people who are maybe considering buying it, it is like a crash course [00:34:00] in the best books on pricing that are out there. And you sort of skim across the service and pull up things that are important to this specific kind of reader, which I think is critical because I can't think of any of the pricing books, even implementing value pricing. None of them really speak down to a tactical level to a particular kind of profession. I find when teaching people some of these, let's be honest, these are pretty abstract concepts, [00:34:30] very, very intangible and tough to believe. There are like an optical illusions almost. And when people are new to these ideas, they need someone, the first couple of times at least, they need someone to be like, "No, no, go like this." And that, go like this, whatever it is, is different from vertical to vertical or it can be. This is why, I think for the right kind of reader, someone running an ad agency for example, or creative or design [00:35:00] agency, it's very, very actionable, which I think is going to earn a place on the desk of ... Like you said, I wouldn't be surprised if this was on the desk of every creative owner across the world. Blair: Certainly, we're not going to hit everyone, but that is my intent. And again, I'm traveling in support of that and I appreciate your point of view on the book, because you've identified what I've really tried to do in that first section, which [00:35:30] is called Principles. I really I'm trying to bubble up like the best of pricing theory from most of the books. And a lot of the best pricing books are heavy in theory and a little bit difficult on the application. Ron Baker's Implementing Value Pricing, I'm much a fan of his. Not only the knowledge, I've never met Ron, but we've corresponded. He just absorbs, his capacity to absorb and synthesize information is awesome, [00:36:00] and he's also an excellent writer. I would read anything that he's written, but when I read Implementing Value Pricing, which is his second book after Pricing On Purpose or Pricing and Purpose is the theory, Implementing Value Pricing basically builds on that. You can just read his second book and skip the first one, because he does kind of a recap of all the principles. And he gets into some great stuff, even some level of detail on implementation that I don't. But it is as I read those, a friend of mine said and I talk about this in the book, he [00:36:30] said, "You should write a book on pricing." and I said, "Oh man, there are some great books on pricing, the world doesn't need another one." He said, "Well, your clients aren't going to read those books." He's right. The owners of the typical creative firms, especially people who see themselves as creative first, and kind of price or sales people, business people second, they're not going to read those books. I needed to deliver the principles in a very interesting way, not go too deep into it, and then get right to [00:37:00] do this. So, the next section is, rules, six different rules, six things you always do when you're pricing. And then the section after that is the lengthier section, it's the tips and that's meant to be specific situation, specific guidance for a specific situation. Crafting your high priced options, crafting your low price options, making the margin in the middle. Dealing with retainers, final negotiations with procurement etc, etc. I imagine people read the first two sections and then when it comes time to craft their proposal, they'll go to the back, [00:37:30] the tools section has a quick review of the rules, and then they'll flip to the section in the tools, to get the specific nugget for the thing that they're building for that one client. So, yeah, that's how I've tried to write the book, and also I come from the world of sales. The reason, I talk about this in the book, the reason value based pricing fails in most creative firms, in fact most professional firms, it breaks down at the value conversation. And that's where the theory [00:38:00] of pricing meets the actual reality of selling. I know from my own experience, you cannot become an effective pricer, if you do not at the same time work on your skills as a salesperson. The third one would be negotiating, so selling, pricing and negotiating, it's really hard to be good at pricing if you do not also tackle selling and negotiating. And that's one of the perspectives [00:38:30] that I tried to bring to the book. Jonathan: Definitely, definitely it comes through. So, we're going to hug it out here. I think it's a great book, I think people who are in this space, it's going to be worth every penny. We're running a little long on time, so what I'd like to do is, ask you what might be kind of a hard question, I know this is really big on your radar right now, but I'm wondering, what do you see beyond this? And the reason I ask is [00:39:00] because you have an amazing post, I think it's called No Exit or No Exit is in the title about, never retiring. And how that changes your focus about the business and all of that. So, I'm wondering have you had that sort of head space to even think beyond this at all, Does this still fit into that public declaration? Blair: Yeah. So the post is called A Mission With No Exit, and that's when I realized from a couple of different sources that, and just seeing in my own clients [00:39:30] what the pattern that I saw is, when you get to a certain age like 55-ish, in some principles, maybe a little earlier, maybe a little bit later, but certainly, by the time somebody is nearing 60, they quit making brave decisions in their business. And it's because they have one eye on the exit, and I realized there are few things that damage a business more than the principle of starting to kind of slowly extricate herself from the business. And I just saw this pattern over and over again, and then this is an [00:40:00] idea I first heard from Dan Sullivan, the founder of Strategic Coach, a coaching organization. I have been in for my own professional development and will be in again, I'm not currently in it right now. But early on in their program, they just disabuse you of this idea, that you're ever going to retire, and the rallying cry is effectively die with your boots on. So, I bought into that early on, and also the idea that you'd never sell. Like you come from the software space, and where in the design world, the design world [00:40:30] is changing so fast these days, because the worlds of design, business consulting and software engineering are all coming together. And look, we don't even have agreed on what the names for this is right, now but it's a really exciting time. But one of the things that's going on, is the design is taking a lot of its cues from tech these days, and in Silicon Valley and the tech world, you see a lot of like spinning up and exiting businesses. I' not going to try to make a moral judgment on that other than to say, [00:41:00] that does not appeal to me. But I think that I see some owners of design businesses think that the proper thing to do is like, build this business, spin it up and exit it. And a lot of sales people like to open a sales conversation with the principle of the business that they're trying to sell to, with the question, what's your exit. I think it's such an insulting question, the implication that you should have an exit. Because I think if I could take away from our listeners, those who own businesses. [00:41:30] If I could take away from you, your right to retire and your right to sell your business, I guarantee you the implications are, that you would start doing today all of the things that you've been putting off. Including things in your personal life, you would arrive at a work life balance now. You would start taking vacations now, you would make the difficult decisions around positioning your firm, about the clients that you work with, about the people that you work with, about having a strong number two in place so that you can free yourself up to do [00:42:00] the more meaningful things, both in the business and in the life. You would structure your day to day so that you're doing things that you love and you're energized by, rather than kind of wading through these undesirable things, with this crazy idea that there's some sort of payoff for all your sacrifice, that all your sacrifice now will lead to a payoff in the future. That's a dangerous idea, and I would just love to disabuse everybody of that notion. So, I talk about that in the post A Mission With No Exit. I do this talk around it's called the [00:42:30] Five Constraints. That's the first constraint, I'd say, if I could impose this on you I would. So in terms of my business, I've got visibility into years of my business, and my plan is, I have no plans to retire, I have no plans to sell, I plan to die with my boots on. I do recognize I'm 51, I do recognize that once you're 70, I don't know where the age is, where the line is, but at some point, people, the way, the advice that they're likely to [00:43:00] take from you is different. Your role needs to change as you age, I know that. But I have lots after this, so much is after this. I'm so excited about what's after launching and pushing Pricing Creativity out into the world. I could live three lives and I would never be finished with the things that I want to do in this business. Rochelle: Hear, hear. Jonathan: Amen. Well, that's a fabulous place to wrap up, I think. Where can people, where's [00:43:30] the best place for people to find out more about you online, Blair? Blair: I'm at Winwithoutpitching.com, if you go to Priceandcreativity.com, that will take you to a page on the Win Without Pitching website. I'm Blair Enns on Twitter and also LinkedIn. I don't use other social media. For years I've been saying, I'm not convinced I'm going to stay on twitter much longer. But I am on Twitter now and I'm on LinkedIn now. And you can find me at Winwithoutpitching.com, where you can learn more [00:44:00] about the books and the training program. And if you want to reach out, you can do that through the website. Rochelle: Awesome. Jonathan: Very good. Well, dear listener, that is our show for this week. We hope you join us again next week for the Business of Authority. Bye. Rochelle: Bye. Bye.

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