It’s the Bad People finale. In this last ever episode, Julia and Sofie dig into the ethics of the media covering criminal cases. After a press “campaign of vilification”, all charges against Christopher Jefferies were dismissed. The tabloids had incorrectly painted him as Joanna Yeates’ killer. Mr Jefferies took the newspapers responsible to court - and won. He then gave evidence during the Leveson Inquiry, the UK’s landmark investigation into wrongdoing and alleged corruption within the media. In this episode of Bad People, criminal psychologist Dr Julia Shaw and comedian Sofie Hagen discuss why many of us think the media is biased against our own views because of “the hostile media effect”. They talk about the Leveson inquiry and what makes media coverage of crimes bad -- or good. At the end, they summarise what they learned from working on Bad People for the past three and a half years. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producers: Laura Northedge and Lauren Armstrong-Carter Assistant Producer: Hannah Ward Editors: Anna Lacey and Richard Collings Music: Matt Chandler Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Production Coordinator: Jonathan Harris #BadPeople_BBC

In December 2010, the UK media became fixated with the disappearance of 25 year-old Joanna Yeates. When her body was discovered, many tabloid newspapers felt certain they knew the identity of her murderer. Christopher Jefferies had been Joanna’s landlord and was considered by some to be “strange”. The claims against Christopher were unfounded. Being hounded by the press left lasting reputational and psychological scars. In this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen ask: is it possible to have a fair trial when the tabloids have decided you are guilty? They explore research on prejudicial pre-trial publicity as well as “media shock” effects after police issue warnings about a killer on the loose. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producers: Laura Northedge and Lauren Armstrong-Carter Assistant Producer: Hannah Ward Editors: Anna Lacey and Richard Collings Music: Matt Chandler Production Coordinator: Jonathan Harris Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC

Daniella Isaacs, the creator of the new BBC Sounds audio drama, People Who Knew Me, joins Dr Julia Shaw in a conversation about faking one’s own death and using the terrorist attacks in America on September 11th 2001 to do so. We ask, who fakes their own death and why? And how easy is it to pull it off? Warning: This episode contains references to the 9/11 attacks and also suicide and drowning. CREDITS Presenter: Dr Julia Shaw Producer: Simona Rata Assistant Producer: Hannah Ward Editors: Anna Lacey and Richard Collings Music: Matt Chandler Production Coordinator: Jonathan Harris Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC

Convicted child sex offender Mark Sutherland has arranged to meet a 13 year-old boy at a bus station, but when he arrives a team of adult “paedophile hunters” greet him with a video camera. In this episode of Bad People, hosts Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen explore vigilante justice. What right, if any, do these “hunters” have to track down sex offenders? When text messaging, do people have a right to privacy? And do sex offender registries make us safer or just more scared? CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Laura Northedge Assistant Producer: Hannah Ward Editors: Anna Lacey and Richard Collings Music: Matt Chandler Production Coordinator: Jonathan Harris Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC

In 2010 Pramila Krishnan, a journalist for the Deccan Chronicle, filed a story about a little-known practice called Thalaikoothal. The story was huge in India and lead to the filming of the 2020 Tamil-language film Baaram, which translates as The Burden. In this episode of Bad People, Sofie Hagen and Dr Julia Shaw discuss senicide, the killing of older adults. At what point is someone “old” and how does frailty fit into it? At what age, if any, should we want to die? And how prevalent is elder abuse? The audio in this episode is from the film Baaram, directed by Priya Krishnaswamy, a Reckless Roses production. Some audio is also from Satyameva Jayate, produced by Aamir Khan Productions. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Simona Rata Assistant Producer: Hannah Ward Editors: Anna Lacey and Richard Collings Music: Matt Chandler Production Coordinator: Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC

It’s 2001 and 14-year-old Anthony Haynes has died. He was one of some 50 kids who participated in a military-style, wilderness programme that was supposed to give troubled teens a new start. Hailed at the time as a local legend among parents struggling with their children, Anthony’s mother had enrolled him after a spell of behavioural problems. Yet, the wilderness therapy Anthony experienced consisted of drill instructions and desert isolation- the sort of ‘tough love’ rife within America’s Troubled Teen Industry. Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss the original ideas behind wilderness therapy, the experiences of survivors such as Paris Hilton, and the efficacy of the programmes of this unregulated industry. And, what are alternative interventions for reducing adolescent delinquency? CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Hannah Ward Editors: Anna Lacey and Martin Smith Music: Matt Chandler Production Coordinator: Jonathan Harris Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC

The Central Park Five confess on video to police and appear on every front page in America. But why did they confess if it’s not true? In this second episode of this two parter, Bad People hosts Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen explore how the police interview children. Should they be treated the same as adults? Or is there a better way to extract their testimony? CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Lauren Armstrong-Carter Assistant Producer: Hannah Ward Editors: Anna Lacey and Richard Collings Music: Matt Chandler Production Co-ordinator: Jonathan Harris Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC

It’s 9pm in New York City. More than thirty young men have gathered on the corner of 110th Street and 5th Avenue. They are attacking innocent people in Central Park. What they don’t know is that a woman will also be sexually assaulted, and that five of their friends will be convicted for a brutal crime they didn’t commit. The Central Park Five falsely confess on video to police. In this episode of Bad People, hosts Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen explore how well we know our right to silence, how much it is influenced by what we see on TV. They also ask: when does silence look like guilt? CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Lauren Armstrong-Carter Assistant Producer: Hannah Ward Editors: Anna Lacey and Richard Collings Music: Matt Chandler Production Co-ordinator: Jonathan Harris Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC

In 2015 a woman in Saskatoon was strangled by a belt. Did her friend do it? She has been strangled by a belt that lies next to her body - the same belt her best friend was wearing in a photograph of the two of them that was posted on Facebook earlier that evening. What can really be learned by what we choose to post online? And what might cause a friendship to take a violent turn? On this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen explore the psychology of “breaking up” with friends, the role of social media for teens’ mental health, and why people so rarely murder their friends. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Laura Northedge Assistant Producer: Hannah Ward Editor: Anna Lacey Music: Matt Chandler Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC Clip: The He Lab “About Lulu and Nana: Twin Girls Born Healthy After Gene Surgery As Single-Cell Embryos” Audio clips: CBS News and Saskatoon StarPhoenix

For her role in the Moors Murders, Myra Hindley was for many years described as ‘‘the most hated woman in Britain’’. So when her escape plot from HMP Holloway in late 1973 is part-aided by then prison guard Patricia Cairns, there is dismay at why anyone would go to such lengths for someone convicted of Hindley’s crimes. What was unearthed during the police investigation, however, was that Hindley and Cairns had established a relationship - not only through interactions within the prison, but through the deeper communication of letter writing that spanned some two years. In this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen explore how Hindley became an “unwitting architect” of whole-life sentences, and discuss the citizens who write to inmates. Why do people become prison pen pals and when is it unethical? CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Produced by Hannah Ward Editor: Anna Lacey Music: Matt Chandler Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC Bad People is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

In Winson Green, Birmingham a category B prison is fit to burst, and on the 9th of October 2018 it finally does. Armed with one syringe, three men set five hundred convicts free and over the next twelve hours the building is almost burnt to the ground. The Winson Green riot was one of the largest prison mutinies for twenty-five years and leaves the public wondering how this could have happened. In this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen explore when prison riots become inevitable? What factors make violence more likely? And can PRISM prevent it? CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Lauren Armstrong-Carter Editors: Anna Lacey Music: Matt Chandler Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC

In 2015, fifteen-year-old Shamima Begum left the UK with two of her friends on a flight bound for Turkey. But the East London schoolgirls were not going on holiday. They were going to join thousands of recruits from across the globe in the Syrian city of Raqqa. They were going to join the so-called Islamic State. Four years later Shamima Begum, now nineteen, was found in a refugee camp and the UK Government revoked her citizenship, something she’s been trying to get back ever since. But what would make a teenager want to join a group like Islamic State? What were the “push and pull factors” linked to ISIS radicalisation? On this episode of Bad People Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen are joined by Josh Baker, the journalist behind ‘The Shamima Begum Story’, where for the first time her account of what happened is investigated. This episode contains clips from the BBC Radio Five Live podcast ‘I’m Not A Monster: The Shamima Begum Story’ CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Lauren Armstrong-Carter Assistant Producer: Hannah Ward Editors: Anna Lacey Music: Matt Chandler Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC

In 1861 William Mumler claims to capture a spirit of dead on camera and offers grieving people the chance to sit with a lost loved one, one last time. These controversial photographs unleashed a debate about the nature of reality and truth and marked a cultural moment which questioned whether what we see can really be believed. But is this a new problem? Are deepfakes forcing us to examine the same questions today? On this episode of Bad People, Sofie Hagen and Dr Julia Shaw discuss dystopian futures, deep fake technology, the uncanny valley, false memories and ask whether the law can really keep up. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Kate White and Lauren Armstrong-Carter Assistant Producer: Hannah Ward Editors: Anna Lacey Music: Matt Chandler Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC

It’s 1992 and Barry Kingston, a man with admitted paedophilic tendencies, is accused of indecently assaulting a child. The police have photographs and audio-tape to prove his involvement - and yet Kingston still pleads not guilty. The boy in the case explains he’d been drugged without his consent. But so, it turns out, had Kingston. In this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss the relationship between violent crime, drugs and alcohol, and the moral minefield of involuntary intoxication and drugged intent. Can you be convicted of a crime you committed while unknowingly under the influence? CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Hannah Ward Editors: Anna Lacey Music: Matt Chandler Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC

It’s 2007 in Perugia Italy. A body has been found, but the American suspect maintains her innocence. Amanda Knox spent 7 years in prison for a crime she didn’t commit, but the long path from conviction to acquittal led to her fluency in Italian and defending herself in court. In this episode, can we ever defend ourselves when we don’t speak the language? And when does bad translation lead to bad justice? CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Produced by Kate White and Lauren Armstrong-Carter Editor: Anna Lacey Music: Matt Chandler Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC Bad People is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

In April 2018, a sealed plastic bag is found tossed next to a dumpster in Coachella, USA. In it, seven tiny, squeaking, new-born puppies. CCTV footage of the puppy dumping culprit, Deborah Sue Culwell, sparked outrage. On this episode of Bad People, we discuss animal welfare and cruelty, the new psychological categorisation Animal Hoarding Disorder (AHD), the link between animal cruelty and interpersonal violence, and why we often care so deeply about some animals (pets) while ignoring the suffering of others (livestock). CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Simona Rata Editors: Anna Lacey Music: Matt Chandler Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC

Bobbie was eight months pregnant and shared the good news with her online community. But because she met Lisa Montgomery, Bobbie would never have the future she hoped for. In one of the most horrific ways imaginable, Lisa steals her baby. Lisa was the first woman to be put to death by the US government in 67 years. But did she deserve capital punishment? Is the death penalty ever justified? On this episode of Bad People, Sofie Hagen and Dr Julia Shaw discuss botched executions, lethal injections, and the UN's call for the global abolition of capital punishment. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Simona Rata Editors: Anna Lacey and Martin Smith Music: Matt Chandler Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC

There was international outcry in 2011 when the celebrated Chinese artist Ai Weiwei was arrested at Beijing airport and imprisoned. The charges against him were vague. So what was Ai Weiwei really in prison for? To begin to answer this, we need to understand the historical background: the Chinese Cultural Revolution. Claiming to purge the country of 'impure' elements, students were encouraged to attack their teachers. Intellectuals were exiled. Books were burned. And the purge didn’t stop there. On this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen explore anti-intellectualism, and how politicians have exploited its appeal. What is the difference between intelligence and intellectualism? What can the anti-intellectualism scale teach us about the psychological origins of a lack of trust in experts? And, what does all of this have to do with art? CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Laura Northedge Assistant Producer: Hannah Ward Editor: Anna Lacey Music: Matt Chandler Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC

Presenter and journalist Sam Holder speaks to Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen about his new BBC podcast, Please Protect Abraham and whether we’re failing vulnerable witnesses. Sam tells Julia and Sofie the story of Abraham Badru, a young boy who rescues a teenage girl from a violent sexual attack. But witnessing this crime changes his life forever, because now he’s a target too. Together they examine what it means to be a witness when you need protection. What ‘special measures’ can be used to keep us safe? And are the measures even affective if you can get them in the first place? All ten episodes of ‘Please Protect Abraham’ can be found on BBC Sounds now. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Lauren Armstrong-Carter Editor: Anna Lacey Music: Matt Chandler Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC

The only murderer in the family? When serial killer Robert Spahalski admitted to murder in 2005, police not only discovered his decades long criminal past but also a fascinating family history that raises the possibility of a genetic tendency towards violence. Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen investigate the age-old concept of “bad families” and ask whether criminal behaviour is passed down through generations. And if so, is it through genes, our environment or our experiences? CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Dr Adam Rutherford Producer: Laura Northedge Assistant Producer: Hannah Ward Editor: Anna Lacey Music: Matt Chandler Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC

In November 2018 Chinese scientist Dr He Jiankui made a big announcement; he had illegally “edited” the DNA of Chinese twin girls Lulu and Nana in an attempt to prevent them from contracting HIV. The news made global headlines and the scientific community reacted with horror. But why is it so controversial to mess with our genes? Dr Julia Shaw is joined by geneticist Dr Adam Rutherford to discuss the dangers of gene editing and how it relates to Nazism and the dark history of trying to breed “better people”, the subject of Adam’s BBC Radio 4 series Bad Blood: The History of Eugenics. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Dr Adam Rutherford Producer: Laura Northedge Assistant Producer: Hannah Ward Editor: Anna Lacey Music: Matt Chandler Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC Clip: The He Lab “About Lulu and Nana: Twin Girls Born Healthy After Gene Surgery As Single-Cell Embryos”

On the 22nd of May 1987 Kenneth Parks killed his mother-in-law and almost killed her husband. He claims he was asleep with amnesia for most of the event. The burden of proof is now on the defence. How can he prove that he was asleep? And if he can, does it mean he will walk free? In this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen investigate how sleep scientists can examine our brainwaves to see whether we are conscious or awake. Can stress, anxiety, or sleep deprivation make us more likely to sleepwalk? What is the legal defence of “non-insane automatism”, and why is it so incredibly hard to argue in a courtroom? CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Lauren Armstrong-Carter Editor: Anna Lacey Music: Matt Chandler Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC

On the 22nd of May 1987 Kenneth Parks got into his car and drove 27 km up a three-lane highway to his beloved parents-in-law's home. He claims he was asleep through his horrific actions until he woke up with blood dripping from his hands. In this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen look into the science of sleepwalking, sleep terrors, and related parasomnias. What is REM sleep? What are we capable of while asleep? What kind of sleep disruptions are normal? And is there a link between “disorders of arousal” and violence? CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Lauren Armstrong-Carter Editor: Anna Lacey Music: Matt Chandler Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC

Dr Julia Shaw unwraps Bad People’s choice of true crime podcasts in 2022. She talks to Gabriel Gatehouse about his series The Coming Storm, which began as an investigation into the Q-Anon phenomenon and has evolved to explore major conspiracies that have engulfed politics in the US and beyond. Julia also meets Winifred Robinson, the acclaimed BBC journalist whose podcast The Boy in the Woods revisits the disturbing case of murdered six year-old Rikki Neave. And journalist Una Mullally discusses the extraordinary story behind Obscene, a BBC podcast that examines the political scandal that erupted following the discovery of a suspected killer in the home of the Irish Attorney General in 1982. CREDITS Presenter: Dr Julia Shaw Producer: Laura Northedge Assistant Producer: Hannah Ward Editor: Anna Lacey Music: Matt Chandler Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC

Dr Julia Shaw unwraps Bad People’s choice of true crime podcasts in 2022. She talks to BBC social media and disinformation correspondent Marianna Spring about her series Disaster Trolls, which investigates the trolling of victims of terror attacks by people who claim they never happened. Julia also meets Audrey Gillan, the acclaimed journalist who’s podcast Bible John: Creation of a Serial Killer reinvestigates horrific murders that shocked Glasgow over fifty years ago. We hear from Formula One expert Sarah Holt about the Spygate podcast which tells the story behind industrial espionage and bitter rivalries in motor racing. And Rachel Monroe discusses her story of lawlessness on the high-seas, BBC podcast Lost at Sea. CREDITS Presenter: Dr Julia Shaw Producer: Laura Northedge Assistant Producer: Hannah Ward Editor: Anna Lacey Music: Matt Chandler Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland

It’s the early hours of the morning in Merseyside. Peter Stubbs is thrown out of Cindy’s Nightclub, then brutally beaten in the street. Constable Dytham is standing nearby and watches it happen. The minutes tick on and the violence subsides, but it’s clear that Peter is dead. On this episode of Bad People, hosts Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen explore whether it should be a crime to do nothing. They ask why we don't step in when we know we should, and discover what happens when inaction leads to conviction. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Lauren Armstrong-Carter Editors: Anna Lacey Music: Matt Chandler Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC

In 2010 a serial robber was on the loose in Cincinnati, US. Surveillance footage shows a clear image of a black man, with a black hoodie and sunglasses on. When tips come in the police follow the trail to a woman’s house. When she opens the door she says, “I know why you're here. I just saw on television my son robbing a bank”. After arresting their prime suspect, it emerges that the police have the wrong man in custody. So if their suspect didn’t commit the crime, who has his face? On this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss the growing problem of hyperreal masks and examine the link between our faces and our identities. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Laura Northedge Assistant Producer: Hannah Ward Editor: Anna Lacey Music: Matt Chandler Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC

In 1895 a bronze statue of slave trader Edward Colston was erected on top of a stone plinth in the centre of Bristol. Colston had made large donations to charities, schools and hospitals in the city, and certain businessmen saw him as a philanthropist. A plaque beneath the statue described Colston as one of the “most virtuous and wise sons of the city”. But there was no mention anywhere that he made his fortune as a slave trader. 125 years later, in 2020, the statue was still there despite many petitions to Bristol City Council for it to be removed. Then, during a demonstration, the statue was toppled and thrown in the river. Four young protesters soon find themselves in court and at the centre of an intense political and legal debate. On this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss whether it is ever right to break the law and what the law itself has to say about this controversial case. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Assistant Producer: Kate White Editor: Anna Lacey Music: Matt Chandler Academic Consultants for The Open University: Dr James Munro Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC

On the 6th of March 1995 Scott Amedure reveals his growing sexual attraction to a friend in front of a large studio audience. Behind the scenes, Jonathan Schmitz is waiting to meet a secret admirer. Jonathan is led on stage of the Jenny Jones Show and each man is revealed to the other. Scott’s face lights up but Jonathan’s expression is inscrutable, and the crowd erupts with laughter around them. Just three days after filming, Jonathan Schmitz shot his friend Scott in the chest, killing him there and then. But was Schmitz fully culpable? What happens when shame becomes public? On this episode of Bad People Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen question the duty of care producers have to contestants, the line between entertainment and exploitation, and the consequences of public humiliation on a national scale. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Laura Northedge Assistant Producer: Hannah Ward Editor: Anna Lacey Music: Matt Chandler Academic Consultant for The Open University: Dr Sarah Laurence Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC

On this episode of Bad People, producer and journalist Georgia Catt speaks to Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen about her new BBC podcast, Burn Wild. Georgia tells Julia and Sofie the story of the Earth Liberation Front (ELF), a group of radical underground environmentalists known as ‘elves’ and together they examine how a movement that never killed anyone became the FBI’s number one domestic terror threat. Should we ditch the term ‘eco-terrorism’ and how far can we go to stop the planet from burning? CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Simona Rata Editors: Anna Lacey and Martin Smith Music: Matt Chandler Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC

A popular chef instructor at a culinary school in Oregon is found shot dead in the campus kitchen. Police think it’s a homicide but have trouble establishing a motive. There are intriguing similarities between the gun that killed Chef Brophy and one belonging to their prime suspect, but they are not the same weapon. On this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen ask what we really know about the increasing concern surrounding unregistered firearms or “ghost guns”. Can deadly weapons really be manufactured on 3D printers, who is supplying them and do they make it easier to get away with murder? CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Assistant Producer: Editor: Music: Matt Chandler Academic Consultants for The Open University: Dr James Munro Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC

In 2009 London taxi driver John Worboys was found guilty of raping one woman and sexually assaulting five, as well as twelve charges of drugging women while they were passengers in his cab. Following a high-profile trial he was given an indeterminate prison sentence as it emerged that there may have been more than 100 victims. However, there was a public outcry when it was announced in 2018 that Worboys was to be released from prison on parole after serving just ten years in custody. How does the parole system balance the rights of the individual prisoner against the responsibility to protect the public? And are they always right? On this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss the purpose of parole, whether every criminal can be rehabilitated and if it is ever acceptable to lock someone up for life. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Laura Northedge Editor: Anna Lacey Music: Matt Chandler The Open University: Dr Sarah Laurence and Dr Ailsa Strathie Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC

In 1989 Kiranjit Ahuwalia set fire to her sleeping husband who was found running around their front garden. It emerged that she had suffered years of abuse at his hands, but is it possible to defend yourself against a sleeping attacker? This case forced the courts to examine the way that years of abuse may cloud your judgement, and specifically; what constitutes “provocation”? On this episode of Bad People Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss whether provocation can ever be a “slow burn” and what this case tells us about how the courts, and society, view intimate partner abuse. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field, Kat Dunn and Laura Northedge Editor: Anna Lacey Music: Matt Chandler The Open University: Dr Sarah Laurence and Dr Ailsa Strathie Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC

In 2014 the ex-partner of video game maker Zoe Quinn released an online essay with intimate details of their relationship and breakup. The story takes on a life of its own when internet trolls start referencing it in misogynistic conspiracy theories posted on online forums. Soon Quinn is bombarded with serious threats of real world violence. When details of where she lives circulate, she flees her home. Quinn was only the beginning as the harassments spread to others who were advocating for an inclusive gaming industry. On this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen share their own experience of having an online presence and discuss what online harassment really is and who is behind it. Whose responsibility is it to make the online World safe? The episode contains audio from BBC News. Warning: This episode contains descriptions of terrorism, threats of sexual violence and online abuse. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Editor: Anna Lacey and Rami Tzabar Music: Matt Chandler The Open University: Dr Sarah Laurence and Dr Ailsa Strathie Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

During the German occupation of the Netherlands two shy teenagers, Truus and Freddie Oversteegen, were recruited into the Dutch Resistance. They quickly went from circulating illegal newspapers to seducing Nazis and German collaborators in bars before luring them into the woods… In this episode of Bad People, recorded live at the Edinburgh Fringe, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen tackle ethical questions: When should children be allowed to take part in war and under what circumstances? And is killing ever justified? This episode contains audio from BBC Reel. Warning: This episode contains descriptions of violence, genocide and murder. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field and Marnie Chesterton Assistant Producer: Kate White Editor: Erika Wright and Anna Lacey Music: Matt Chandler Academic Consultants for The Open University: Dr Sarah Laurence and Dr Ailsa Strathie. Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

In September 2015, Martin Shkreli quickly became ‘the most hated man in America’ after he raised the price of the life-saving drug, Daraprim, by more than 4,000% - almost overnight. Instead of apologising or hiding away, Shkreli decided to lean into his villain image, with even more media appearances and antagonising acts. In an interview with The Hustle magazine, Shkreli was quoted as saying: “People want a villain,” “If people derive some psychological benefit from that, then I don’t want to deprive them of it. I’ll be your villain.” Shkreli lied with regularity, harassed female journalists and even took on the Wu-Tang Clan. At his securities fraud trial almost 200 jurors were ‘excused’ during jury selection because as one juror said: “The only thing I’d be impartial about is what prison this guy goes to.” In part two, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss the latest research on ‘hate’. Why do we hate? Whom do we hate? And can one love to be hated? They also talk about jury selection and whether it is ever possible to have a completely unbiased jury. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Anna Lacey #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

In September 2015, Martin Shkreli’s name made headlines. He quickly became ‘the most hated man in America’ after he raised the price of the life-saving drug, Daraprim, by more than 4,000% - almost overnight. He was vilified by the press and the public alike and was often referred to as ‘pharma bro’, a representation of everything that was seemingly wrong with Big Pharma. Was Martin Shkreli unfairly singled out? How was any of it legal? And is ruthlessness in business justified? This is part one of two. On this episode of Bad People Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss greed and whether it’s inherently bad. This episode includes audio from the 2021 documentary ‘Pharma Bro’ by Blumhouse Productions, directed by Brent Hodge. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Anna Lacey #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

During an operation in 2013 a nurse sends the surgeon, Dr Simon Bramhall, a sharp look. He shrugs it off and tells her “this is what I do” and continues to burn his initials into the patient's newly transplanted liver. Later, Dr Bramhall argues that dark humour is a way to take the pressure off when working in a high-pressure hospital job. On this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss the nature of dark humour and how an unusual crime was eventually prosecuted. Where should we draw the line between “funny” and “harmful”? And was Dr Bramhall’s explanation plausible? CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Editor: Erika Wright Music: Matt Chandler The Open University: Dr Sarah Laurence and Dr Ailsa Strathie Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

If you‘ve already made millions and you know you’re being watched, why keep offending? Curtis Warren was one of Britain’s wealthiest drug barons, who had a remarkable journey from the streets of Liverpool to the summit of the international cocaine trade. He was the first person to trade directly with the notorious Cali Cartel in South America, and the courts eventually asked him to pay back an incredible £198 million. Yet Curtis Warren has spent the majority of his adult life behind bars, unable to enjoy his ill-gotten gains. So if you’ve already made a fortune from crime, and you know the authorities are on to you, what keeps you going back for more? Why wouldn’t you just lie low and enjoy spending your money? Is it a career, a habit, an addiction, or something else? On this episode of Bad People Dr Julia Shaw is joined by Livvy Haydock from the podcast ‘Gangster’, which tells the story of Curtis Warren from the streets of Toxteth in the 1980s to becoming Interpol’s ‘Target One’. This episode contains clips from the BBC Radio Five Live podcast Gangster: The Story of Curtis Warren. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Livvy Haydock Producer: Ben Motley Editor: Anna Lacey Music: Matt Chandler Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

Daniel Petric grabbed his father's 9mm handgun from a lockbox and while his siblings were away shot both of his parents. He had been planning his revenge for a week. Before he made his escape in the family minivan, Daniel grabbed the one thing this was all for: the Halo 3 video game his parents wouldn’t let him play. The Defense argued that Petric’s sense of reality was altered because of all the video games he played. Can his love of video games help explain why he attacked his parents? Or is that idea ridiculous? On this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss the hidden harm caused by child-to-parent-violence-and-abuse (CAPVA), and explore the latest research on whether violent video games can make us violent in real life. Warning: This episode includes graphic descriptions of violence and domestic abuse. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Martin Smith #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

In 1987 in the town of Royal Tunbridge Wells, a “peeping Tom” is spotted lurking by the windows of women. Soon after, Wendy Knell and Caroline Pierce are both found brutally murdered and sexually assaulted after their deaths. Thirty year later, a special task force dedicated to cold cases finally track down the man who became known as the “Bedsit Killer”. The case takes a nasty turn when the police make a horrifying discovery at the killer’s home. On this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen unearth the secret life of the UK’s most prolific necrophile and discuss what legal protection and rights a dead body has. Also - is calling someone a monster ever justified in the court room? Warning: This episode contains descriptions of violence, necrophilia and child abuse. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar, Anna Lacey and Martin Smith. #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

US politician, Katie Hill, is one of the first politicians to openly identify as bisexual while campaigning for office. However things quickly take a turn for the worse as she is entangled in a scandal, and the media share naked photos of her in a sexual relationship with a younger female member of staff. Would the fallout have been different if she had stayed in the closet? In celebration of Pride Month Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen explore the history, science and culture of bisexuality. In this episode, they discuss “revenge porn”, why fewer bisexual people are out at work (and in politics) than lesbian and gay people, and they review the science of threesomes. Warning: This episode includes mention of suicide, sexual refences and some swearing. The episode contains audio from Vice News CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Caroline Steel Assistant Producers: Simon Rata and Emily Bird Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC

Omar comes to the UK after falling in love with a British woman. After his relationship breaks down, he seeks asylum, claiming it is unsafe for him to return to The Gambia because he has been persecuted and assaulted for being bisexual. But can he prove his bisexuality in court? Can anyone? In celebration of Pride Month Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen explore the history, science and culture of bisexuality. In this episode, they discuss research on the difficulties faced by bisexual aslyum seekers, the consequences of coming out as bisexual in relationships, and instances where their own sexuality has been seen as performative. Warning: This episode includes some swearing, violent scenes and references to sex. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Caroline Steel Assistant Producers: Simon Rata and Emily Bird Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC

Police officers are locked in a pub in New York. People attempt to set the building on fire. And a riot begins. It spreads across the city and lasts for a full three days. But what triggered the riots? And how did it lead to the Pride marches we see all over the world today? In celebration of Pride Month Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen explore the history, science and culture of bisexuality. In this episode, Julia and Sofie discuss the origins of Pride marches, how they make their own sexual identities seen, and the history of bisexual symbols. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Caroline Steel Assistant Producers: Simon Rata and Emily Bird Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC

Running a bookshop might sound like the epitome of a quiet life. But for one man, the act of selling a very specific book resulted in his arrest - and led to the publisher of that book taking his own life. What made it so controversial? In celebration of Pride Month, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen explore the history, science and culture of bisexuality. In this first episode, they discuss the origins of sexuality research and their own sexual identities. Warning: This episode includes mention of suicide and some swearing. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Caroline Steel Assistant Producers: Simon Rata and Emily Bird Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC

In celebration of Pride Month Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen explore the history, science and culture of bisexuality. They discuss research on how we can measure sexuality, what REALLY happened during the Stonewall uprising, and the bi-acivists who fought to make pride happen. This is Bi People.

John McAvoy’s biological father passed away shortly before he was born, leaving him to be raised by a community of women. As a child, John loved history, was bright and ambitious and wanted to leave his mark on the world. He also happened to be Micky McAvoy’s nephew, a notorious criminal and the mastermind behind Brinks-Mat, the biggest gold heist in UK history. Soon what started as a childhood dream to own British Telecom turned into a career as an armed robber. But John turned it all around in prison where he found a love for sport. This is the inspiring and unlikely story of a man who went from spending one full year in solitary confinement, or 'segregation' as it’s called in the UK to being a Nike sponsored athlete. In this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss The Nelson Mandela Rules and the concept of ‘engineered segregation’. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultant for The Open University: James Munro #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

In 1983 Kieran Patrick Kelly, who was living on the streets of London at the time, was brought into Clapham Police Station for attacking and stealing an old man’s watch and wedding ring. Kelly murdered his cell-mate during his first night in custody for snoring too loudly. While under questioning he went on to willingly confess to multiple other murders the police didn’t know about nor suspect him of – essentially he willingly confessed to being a serial killer. In this episode of Bad People Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss risk perception, the limited research around spontaneous true confessions and why distinguishing fact from fiction is incredibly difficult in this case. Warning: This episode includes graphic descriptions of violence. This story was researched by RTÉ in Ireland and Third Ear in Denmark, the producers of the 2020 podcast, The Nobody Zone. All of the audio is from this podcast. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for The Open University: Lara Frumkin and James Munro #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

After six years of inactivity, the Unabomber is back. The FBI reinvigorate the investigation and the chase begins once more. When Ted Kaczynski’s brother, David, finds an earlier version of the Unabomber’s Manifesto among a series of letters from Ted to their mother, he calls the FBI. In this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and comedian Sofie Hagen discuss Kaczynski’s childhood, dubious psychological testing at Harvard University and challenge the media narrative that he was some sort of ‘criminal mastermind’. In court, Kaczynski’s lawyers wanted to plead insanity, but that proved difficult. Warning: This episode contains graphic descriptions of violence and terrorism. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultant for The Open University: Dr James Munro #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

From 1978 to 1995, Ted Kaczynski, also known as the Unabomber, built and mailed a series of homemade bombs, killing three people and injuring many more. Kaczynski lived alone in a cabin in the woods, in Lincoln, Montana and documented his ‘failures’ and ‘successes’ in code, in a personal journal. His targets were university professors, technocrats and anyone seen to further, as he saw it, technological development. In this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and comedian Sofie Hagen unpick what motivated Kaczynski’s violent behaviour. It turns out that Kaczynski was inspired by French anarchist philosopher, Jacques Ellul, fears about technology. Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen reflect on their own “technophobia” and how it affects their lives. Warning: This episode contains graphic descriptions of violence and terrorism. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for The Open University: Lara Frumkin and James Munro #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

On the 20th of April 1934, eight-year-old Helen was sent to buy bread for her mother. She reached the bakery around 1.30 in the afternoon, spent exactly 4 dimes and was seen returning home by a few neighbors. But she never made it all the way and later that day her parents, friends and the police began a search that lasted through the night. What do Aberdeen, a half-loaf of bread, and the history of forensic science have in common? In this episode of Bad People, recorded live at the festival Granite Noir, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss the impact of bias on forensics, the use of bacteria in analysing crime scenes and the way in which fingerprints are actually compared – hint, it’s not like the movies. Warning: This episode contains strong language, descriptions of violence, child abuse and sexual violence. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field and Caroline Steel Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for The Open University: Lara Frumkin and James Munro #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

In 1998 Matthew Shepard, becomes the victim of radical homophobia in Wyoming. Two suspects, Aaron McKinney and Russell Henderson are almost immediately taken into custody and charged. The “gay panic” defense is used in court. But, does it work? Shepard becomes the poster boy for the horrific consequences of anti-gay hate, and his case helps to re-define hate crimes in the US. Celebrities get involved, marches are held, and a decade later, in 2009, the United States Congress passes the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act. In this episode Sofie Hagen and Dr Julia Shaw discuss research on the seven shades of homophobia, what defines a hate crime, and explain the flawed logic behind the “gay panic” defense, also called the LGBTQ+ panic defense. Warning: This episode contains graphic descriptions of violence and homophobia, including homophobic slurs. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Caroline Steel Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for The Open University: Lara Frumkin and James Munro #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

A Bad People special episode will be available shortly. Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen speak to Gordon Corera, the Security Consultant on Killing Eve. They discuss ‘dry cleaning’, secret recording devices and fake identities.

Klenice grew up in a village in rural Western Kenya. When both her parents passed away, she dropped out of school and started working to support herself. The father of her first child also died unexpectedly and by the age of 22 she was a single mother. What drives a mother to sell her own child? And who facilitates such a sale? In 2019, BBC Africa Eye launched an investigation into Kenya’s black market for babies. Presenter Njeri Mwangi worked on the yearlong undercover operation and joins Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen to discuss the result, the documentary ‘The Baby Stealers’. Who buys babies on the black market? And how much should a journalist intervene to stop a sale? Njeri talks about the individual stories that most affected her, the fallout once the documentary was published, her hopes for the future and even the feminist motorcycle club she’s part of, the Throttle Queens. The episode contains audio from the documentary by BBC Africa Eye, The Baby Stealers. Warning: This episode contains references to child trafficking, kidnap, and suicide. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultant, The Open University: James Munro #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

The Iceman, Richard Kuklinski, was a notorious contract killer. Over the course of his ‘career’ he, by his own admission, killed over 100 people. Some were contracted murders – hits - others were victims of revenge and a few were just at the wrong place, at the wrong time. Richard Kuklinski had links to the Gambino family, was efficient and killed in a myriad of ways. In the process, he made himself, and his family, rich. Who hires contract killers? What is the interview process like? And do you have to be stone cold to do well in this line of work? In this episode of Bad People Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss the different typologies of contract killers, how much a hit costs and why looking to hire a hitman off the dark web may just lead one to being scammed. Warning: This episode includes graphic descriptions of violence. All of the audio in this episode comes from two HBO documentaries: Clips 1, 3 and 5 are from The Iceman Tapes: Conversations with a Killer (1992) and clips 2 and 4, from The Iceman Confesses: Secrets of a Mafia Hitman (2001). CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for The Open University: Lara Frumkin and James Munro #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

In 1998, Christopher Alder spent the evening at the "student night" of a nightclub in Hull, England. The night escalated dramatically and eventually lead to a national conversation about racism and the police's treatment of Black people. A video released years after Alder's tragic death revealed audible "monkey noises", reviving the discussion about the case and the important issues it raises. In this episode of Bad People Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss the circumstances that led to Christopher Alder's death, and how the case relates to Stephen Lawrence and the MacPherson report. They discuss institutional racism and why white people need to identify and dismantle their own white fragility. Warning: This episode contains graphic descriptions of violence and racism. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for The Open University: Lara Frumkin and James Munro #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

When day-care employee, Kelly Michaels, is accused of playing the piano naked in front of children, she is speechless. The case escalates and soon Kelly Michaels is faced with charges of outlandish crimes. The trial changes her life forever. She spends years in prison before being exonerated. On this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen are joined by writer Jon Ronson, who interviewed Kelly Michaels for the podcast “Things Fell Apart”. They discuss how her case was part of a the Satanic Panic in the US, a wave of conspiracy theories that told tall tales of child-abusing Satanists. This episode contain clips from the New York Times and BBC Radio 4, Things Fell Apart. Warning: This episode includes descriptions of child abuse. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Editor: Rami Tzabar Music: Matt Chandler Academic Consultants from The Open University: Dr James Munro Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC Bad People is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

Three friends - Babs, Els and Marcel - jump out of a plane together. They are regular sky divers and as they approach the ground they activate their parachutes. Els' parachute fails, as does her reserve parachute. She falls the remaining 1000m to her death. Was it a tragic accident or was it murder? In this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen debate their differing views on monogamy. They discuss the psychology of jealousy: what makes someone jealous and does it serve any purpose? This episode contains audio from AP archive. Warning: This episode includes mention of suicide and some swearing. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Caroline Steel Assistant Producer: Simon Rata Researcher: Emily Bird Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC

When Clifford brokers a small drug deal he doesn’t know that the police are listening in. Clifford is arrested and when the case goes to trial, the recording of the deal is not allowed into evidence by the judge. But the testimony of the police officer is. This becomes the focal point of a courtroom drama that makes it all the way to the Supreme Court of Kentucky. On this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen are joined by our scientific advisor from the Open University, Dr Lara Frumkin. Her expertise on how the way you speak impacts verdicts, sparks a debate about how the Supreme Court Justices voted in Cliffords case. They examine how racism gets passed down through generations of court rulings and how aversive racism can go undetected. Warning: This episode includes discussion of racism and strong language This episode contain clips from ABCnews and CBS, The Late Late Show with James Corden. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Editor: Rami Tzabar Music: Matt Chandler Academic Consultants from The Open University: Dr Lara Frumkin and Dr James Munro Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC Bad People is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

Studies show that nearly half the UK population have experimented with bondage, discipline, sadism, masochism (BDSM). It is surprisingly common, so why did a group of men practicing BDSM end up in prison? Should we police what people do in the bedroom? On this episode of bad people Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss the “rough sex” defence. Is it an opportunity to get away with murder or a necessary part of the legal framework? This episode contains audio from BBC Radio 4’s Woman’s Hour and the documentary When Sex Games Go Wrong, produced by Caitlin Kelly. Warning: This episode includes graphic descriptions of violence and some swearing. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Caroline Steel Assistant Producer: Simon Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC

Mary Linnen, a woman in her late 20s, had just gotten engaged and she wanted to lose some weight for the wedding. Her doctor prescribed a combination of drugs called Fen-Phen. And it worked instantly. She lost weight but then she also started to lose her breath a lot. Other agonising symptoms soon followed including swelling of legs and stomach. Mary becomes one of the first Fen-Phen victims of which there are thousands. Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss the extreme lengths and risks that people are willing to take to be thin and the industry that profits from fatphobia. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Editor: Rami Tzabar Music: Matt Chandler Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC Bad People is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

On the 27th of August 2015, a chicken truck is abandoned in Austria when smugglers realise the worst has happened. The tragedy shook Europe and lead to changes in immigration policy. In this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss the difference between human trafficking and people smuggling, the risk-reward ratio for the criminal networks involved, their estimated financial turnover, and why many people smugglers are both victims and perpetrators. The episode also dissects the decisions the driver of the truck, his accomplice and their immediate superiors made that day, and the distorted rationale behind it. Warning: This episode includes graphic descriptions, and mention of death, including the death of children. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for The Open University: Lara Frumkin and James Munro #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

23rd April 2018 was the date selected by John Doe as the day he would kill as many residents of Toronto as possible. Witnesses describe seeing a white van mount the pavement on busy Yonge Street and run down pedestrians. Ten people sadly lost their lives. John Doe drew inspiration from the misogynistic online “incel” movement: groups of men who blame their lack of sexual activity on women and resent sexually “succesful” men. On this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and comedian Sofie Hagen discuss why people become incels. Are incels dangerous? And what can be done to stop people subscribing to this ideology in the first place. This episode contains audio from the documentary Inside the Secret World of Incels produced by BBC Three and audio from Ben Hurst’s TED talk. Warning: This episode contains descriptions of violence, specifically targeted violence towards women, murder, and mentions of suicide. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Caroline Steel Editor: Rami Tzabar Music: Matt Chandler Academic Consultants for The Open University: Dr Lara Frumkin and Dr James Munro Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

Bad People specials will be available on BBC Sounds. On December 28th, Dr Julia Shaw, Sofie Hagen and Sarah Phelps, the writer of the new BBC One drama A Very British Scandal, talk about slut-shaming in the 1960s and today. On January 2nd, Julia and Sofie speak with Danielle MacDonald about her character in the new BBC One drama The Tourist. They discuss fatphobia, emotional abuse and what it was like filming during a sandstorm in Australia’s outback.

When Robert Shafran arrives for his first day of college he is overwhelmed by the friendliness and familiarity of the other students. Dazed and confused, he soon discovers that he is identical to another boy who just left the college. Both are adopted. Robert and his brother, Eddy, are thrilled to find each other and it doesn’t take long before – in an unbelievable twist – a third identical brother comes forward. Their feel-good story brings fame and huge media interests. But the story of long-lost brothers reunited soon turns sour when they discover that “those people” who checked in on them throughout their childhood might have had other motives than their wellbeing. On this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and comedian Sofie Hagen discuss how far is too far when it comes to psychological research. This episode contains audio from the documentary Three Identical Strangers produced by CNN Films and RAW TV, directed by Tim Wardle. Warning: This episode includes some descriptions of a sexual nature and some distressful scenes including a mention of suicide. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field and Simona Rata Editor: Rami Tzabar Music: Matt Chandler Academic Consultants for The Open University: Dr Lara Frumkin and Dr James Munro Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

In 2009, Belle Gibson shared on her blog that she was diagnosed with terminal brain cancer and had only four months to live. She then began documenting her journey of healing via clean eating. When Instagram launched a year later, she quickly amassed a following of 200,000 people, becoming one of the very first wellness influencers. But was she just taking advantage of people's wishful thinking? In this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss how “wellness” has been conceptualized as a concept that remains forever out of reach, why the veneer of credibility can be so hard to break through, and the famous sceptic Barry Beyerstein’s advice on how to identify pseudo-scientific health claims. Warning: This episode includes descriptions of cancer treatment, and mentions a threat of suicide. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for The Open University: Lara Frumkin and James Munro #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

Earlier this year, hundreds of unmarked graves were discovered at Canadian residential schools. What is the truth behind what really happened at these schools? On this episode, hosts Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss how trauma can be passed from generation to generation and what can be done to heal the wounds caused by such poor treatment of Indigenous Canadians. They debate whether or not intergenerational trauma should be taken into account in sentencing decisions. In Canada, sentencing judges officially have a “role in remedying injustice against Aboriginal peoples in Canada”, should other countries be following Canada’s lead? This episode contains audio from: DW, Wion, CBS and CBC News' Stolen Children Warning: This episode contains strong language and descriptions of violence CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Caroline Steel Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for The Open University: Dr Lara Frumkin and Dr James Munro #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

When 80-year old Kathleen is called up by a nice man from her computer company she does not suspect foul play. And when he tells her that she is owed a refund, she follows his instructions. Scams costs victims millions every year and the problem is only growing. “Scam-baiter” Jim Browning has had enough of scam-calls and has decided to use their own tricks against them. It is illegal and dangerous work. What Jim discovers is chilling. Scams are a huge industry that involves large call centres and thousands of “employees” that are evaluated and promoted based on their ability to scam unsuspecting victims out of their life savings. On this episode, hosts Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss what might motivate someone to earn their living from scams; and what motivates others, like Jim Browning, to take the law into their own hands. We discover the chilling fact that even the most tech-savvy and internet literate can become the victim of a scam. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for The Open University: Dr Lara Frumkin and Dr James Munro #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

The UK’s most prolific rapist only targeted men, but the case is largely unknown. He would wait outside clubs in Manchester and offer men who looked vulnerable a place to charge their phone or call a taxi. Then he would slip the men a drug and rape them while they were unconscious, meaning that the majority of his victims had no idea what had happened to them until they were contacted by the police. On this episode of Bad People, hosts Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen debate whether or not the police should have told the victims. And they discuss male rape myths and what can be done to make it easier for men to speak up about sexual abuse. Warning: This episode contains strong language and descriptions of violence CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Caroline Steel Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for The Open University: Dr Lara Frumkin and Dr James Munro #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds. This episode contains audio from: Minnow Films and BBC Radio 4

When a young man claiming to be an heir to the Rockefeller estate turns up in a silver Ferrari in The Hamptons in the US, the rich and the famous invite him into their lives. Many are dazzled by his expensive lifestyle so when he offers extraordinary returns on investments, the money pours in. But Christophe is not a Rockefeller and he has no intention of investing the money. He pockets it and goes on the run from the FBI. On this episode of Bad People, hosts Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen track his unsavoury behaviour that eventually lands him in prison for “abuse of weakness” under French law. They dissect what research has to say about con-artistry and what part lying has in the schemes. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for The Open University: Dr Lara Frumkin and Dr James Munro #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

In the late 1970s, a charismatic cult leader, Jim Jones, promised his followers that they would create a utopian community based on Christian values and racial equality. In the jungle in Guyana, South America, Jones started the project and named it after himself: Jonestown. On this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss why so many people joined and later stayed in Peoples Temple. Once isolated in the jungle, it became hard for the inhabitants to escape and Jim Jones' abuse escalated. The cult ended abruptly after a visit from a concerned US congressman. Warning: This episode includes descriptions of murder, suicide, graphic violence, drug abuse and possibly strong language. This episode contains audio collected by The Jonestown Institute and from The Jonestown Massacre: Paradise Lost by Real Stories produced by Cineflix, Galaxie Production, Film Afrika and NextFilm. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for The Open University: Dr Lara Frumkin and Dr James Munro #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

Matt Falder is the UK’s worst “sextorter”. A convicted serial sex offender, he used online accounts to blackmail over 40 victims into sending him naked photos, perform sexual acts and even getting one person commit rape. He was also at the time, a Cambridge University student and one of the Bad People team shares their story of coming face to face with him. Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss how the online world has created a new type of crime that targets and exploits young people in the most horrific way possible. This episode contains audio from: Sky News, CBSN and National Crime Agency Warning: This episode contains strong language and descriptions of violence CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Caroline Steel Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Editor: Rami Tzabar Music: Matt Chandler Academic Consultants for The Open University: Dr Lara Frumkin and Dr James Munro Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

In 1983 Diane Downs carries her three small children into a hospital in Oregon, all suffering from gunshot wounds. The mother explains that she had been the victim of an attempted carjacking, but managed to trick her attacker and escape. However, not long after, the police’s attention turns towards her as a potential suspect. What could lead a mother to harm her own children? In this episode of Bad People, presenters Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss the topic of familicide and Julia shares her own family’s close encounter. Warning: This episode includes descriptions of murder and possibly some strong language. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for The Open University: Lara Frumkin and James Munro #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

Comedian Sofie Hagen takes us back to her childhood where she unexpectedly received a laptop and free holiday from the municipality. The former tax minister, Peter Brixtofte, was the mayor of Sofie’s town and his “generosity” meant that the citizens loved him. But soon people started to ask: where does the money come from for all these gifts? And why are Peter Brixtofte’s restaurant receipts so enormous? And why are big companies suddenly donating huge sums to the small local football club? On this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss whether Peter Brixtofte was a modern-day Robin Hood or a crook. Why do we love anti-heroes? This episode was recorded at the London Podcast Festival in front of a live audience. This episode contains audio from: Danish Broadcasting Corporation (DR) and DK4 CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Caroline Steel Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Editor: Rami Tzabar Music: Matt Chandler Academic Consultants for The Open University: Dr Lara Frumkin and Dr James Munro Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

Peter Sutcliffe, better known as the Yorkshire Ripper murdered 13 women and attacked many others. The case involved 5 million hours of mostly futile police work and sparked angst and fury among women. Could he have been stopped sooner? On this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen explore how the police were sidetracked in their investigation by confirmation bias and sexism and how women responded with “Reclaim the Night” marches across the country. Warning: This episode includes descriptions of sexual violence, murder and possibly some strong language. This episode contains audio from: The Yorkshire Ripper Files: A Very British Crime Story produced by Wall to Wall, BBC Archive, BBC AUDIO – BRASSTACKS, BBC News, John Humble and ITV. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for The Open University: Dr. Zoe Walkington & Dr. Camilla Elphick #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

Con-artists. Corruption. Cult leaders. Murders. Rapists. Extortionists. Dr Julia Shaw and comedian Sofie Hagen are back soon with stories of the worst among us and the research that can help us understand how and why someone might turn bad. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar The Open University: Dr Lara Frumkin and Dr James Munro #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

25 years ago, a man walked into Dunblane Primary School and opened fire on a gymnasium full of school children. The horror of this event led to a change in gun legislation - did it work? The US has more school shootings than any other country in the world, should the US adopt the UK’s gun legislation? On this episode of Bad People, Dr. Julia Shaw and comedian Sofie Hagen discuss who is to blame for school shootings and what can be done to prevent them. This episode includes audio from the documentary Dunblane: Our Story, produced by STV Productions Ltd & Berrif McGinty Films Ltd. Warning: This episode contains strong language, discussion of violence towards children and suicide. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Caroline Steel Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for The Open University: Lara Frumkin and James Munro #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

We continue the story of the notorious Nazi officer and organiser of the Holocaust, Adolf Eichmann, as he goes on trial in Israel. Political theorist Hannah Arendt covers the case, and like so many others, expects to see a monster in a glass cage. Instead she arrives at the chilling conclusion that Eichmann is not a criminal mastermind nor a “monster”, but a dim-witted bureaucrat. Her description upset many people, because how can something so terrible as the holocaust happen? Surely the devil himself must be behind it? “Despite all the efforts of the prosecution, everybody could see that this man was not a “monster,” but it was difficult indeed not to suspect that he was a clown”, Hannah Arendt wrote in her famous article for The New Yorker. The experience led her to coin the phrase “The Banality of Evil”. Humans, she explains, do terrible things for ordinary reasons, such as turning up for work every day. In Eichmann’s case, this included making sure that trains full of Jewish people arrived at the death camps on time. On this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and comedian Sofie Hagen examines Hannah Arendt’s work and what it means for how we understand great acts of violence and antisemitism. “Evil comes from a failure to think. It defies thought for as soon as thought tries to engage itself with evil and examine the premises and principles from which it originates, it is frustrated because it finds nothing there. That is the banality of evil”, Hannah Arendt, The New Yorker, 1963. This episode includes audio from the short series of educational films, The Eichmann Show, created for the BBC, produced and directed by David Barrie. Warning: This episode contains strong language and descriptions of violence CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for The Open University: Lara Frumkin and James Munro Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds. #BadPeople_BBC

Our story starts in Argentina in 1960. A middle-age man is on his way home. As he gets off the bus, hooded men grab him and shuffle him into a van. The man is Adolf Eichmann and the hooded men are Israeli intelligence officers. They smuggle him to Israel to stand trial for his role in the Holocaust. As a prominent Nazi in Hitler’s Third Reich, Eichmann organised the deportations of millions of Jewish people to death camps. He gets the chilling nickname “The Architect of the Holocaust”. The trial was broadcast globally and onlookers watched on in horror and disbelief as the crimes of a seemingly normal man were lay bare. On this episode of Bad People, Dr. Julia Shaw and comedian Sofie Hagen dissect Eichmann’s morally dubious defence that he was “just following orders” and was acting within Nazi law. And they unpick the controversial research that led scientists to question whether all humans are capable of great harm under the right circumstances. This episode includes audio from the short series of educational films, The Eichmann Show, created for the BBC Warning: This episode contains strong language and descriptions of violence CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for The Open University: Lara Frumkin and James Munro Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds. #BadPeople_BBC

Back in 2016 the pizza restaurant owner James Alefantis began to receive a large number of abusive messages on social media. Confused and afraid, he goes online and to his horror discovers dozens of bogus articles describing how the basement of his pizza joint is being used to traffic and molest children. The architect of this so-called “child sex ring”, the fake articles conclude, is presidential candidate Hillary Clinton and her inner circle. Later that year, Edgar Welch burts into the restaurant armed with guns. He fires several shots into a cabinet where he believes the children are being kept. In this episode of Bad People, criminal psychologist Dr Julia Shaw and comedian Sofie Hagen discuss the mental gymnastics required to believe in conspiracy theories and how such beliefs can lead to violence. Welsch committed a crime that landed him in prison and left the community traumatised, but he thought he was saving children, so does that make him a bad person? We discover that Welsch is not a special case, on the contrary, conspiracy beliefs are very common and we are all vulnerable to their potentially harmful influence. This episode includes audio from an interview with Hillary Clinton at the Politics and Prose Bookstore in Washington, CBS Evening News, Fresh Air with Dave Davies from NPR, CNN and BBC World Service. Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for The Open University: Lara Frumkin and James Munro Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds. #BadPeople_BBC

A group of American soldiers sought out and murdered three civilians in Afghanistan. How did this happen? Was it the work of a rogue platoon or is it part of a larger issue? On this episode of Bad People, Dr. Julia Shaw and comedian Sofie Hagen discuss how soldiers are trained to kill and what counts as murder at war. How do we distinguish between a successful battlefield kill and an unlawful murder? This episode includes audio from a documentary made by F/8 filmworks, and directed by Dan Krauss, called The Kill team. Warning: This episode contains strong language and descriptions of violence CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for The Open University: Lara Frumkin and James Munro Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskin Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds. #BadPeople_BBC

This episode of Bad People features the writer of the new BBC One hit drama, Time, Jimmy McGovern. There will be spoilers. Mark Cobden is drunk. Again. But this time he gets into his car and drives off. Moments later he hits and kills a cyclist. Criminal psychologist Dr Julia Shaw, comedian Sofie Hagen and the Bafta and Emmy-winning writer Jimmy McGovern discuss what makes dangerous driving a relatable crime. Mark did not mean to hurt anyone, so does he belong in prison? And if so, what sort of prison? McGovern shares details about the production and follows up on how he understands the motivations of his characters, the stories that lead them to crime and their guilt and atonement. And, McGovern speaks about how his own life and harsh childhood growing up in Liverpool, informs his writing. Warning: This episode contains strong language and descriptions of violence CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for The Open University: Lara Frumkin and James Munro Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskin Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds. #BadPeople_BBC

This is part two of the shocking story of abuse and torture which marked the small German town of Höxter. Angelika was called the ‘torture witch’, a psychopath, and a sadist.The truth about Angelika is more interesting. Her relationship with Wilfried took her down a dark path that made her testimony in court so hard to listen to that the judge called a break so everyone could get some air. But it’s not just the details that shocked people, her ice cold presentation was seen by many as proof that she was a Monster. But, should she have been judged so harshly for her cold appearance in court? And what led her to willingly and enthusiastically describe every detail of her crimes? In this episode of Bad People Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss assumptions about psychopathy, whether autism can increase the risk of being the victim or perpetrator of violence, and how escalating and absurd rules are often a component of domestic violence that makes it hard to leave an abuser. Warning: This episode contains descriptions of extreme violence. Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for The Open University: Lara Frumkin and James Munro Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds. #BadPeople_BBC

In the middle of a snowstorm in April 2016 a car broke down on the outskirts of a sleepy German town. Angelika, a middle-aged woman, stepped out and knocked on a neighbour’s door asking for help. Wilfried, her partner, stayed behind. But, why did the woman in the back of their car have so many injuries? What had happened to her? In this episode of Bad People, presenters Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss a famous German case of abuse and torture which shocked the country. They talk about the link between domestic violence and torture, and whether you need to be a sadist to inflict such pain onto others. This is part one of two. Warning: This episode contains descriptions of extreme violence, including sexual violence. Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Simona Rata Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for The Open University: Lara Frumkin and James Munro Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds #BadPeople_BBC

In the 1930s in Tuskegee, Alabama, hundreds of men signed up to a medical study which offered free transportation to and from hospitals, free hot lunches and free medicine for most diseases. But the men were not informed of their diagnosis or treated for the disease that was killing them - syphilis. This study went on for 40 years and 128 men died from syphilis and related conditions. On this episode of Bad People, Dr. Julia Shaw and comedian Sofie Hagen discuss whether or not the Tuskegee syphilis study is impacting the uptake of the COVID vaccine in America today, how racism impacts medical research, and the importance of tackling everyday racism. This episode includes audio from NBC news, ABC news, and White House Television. Warning: This episode contains strong language and discussion of racism. CREDITS Presenters: Dr. Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Caroline Steel Artwork: Kingsley Nebechi Music: Matt Chandler Series Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for The Open University: Dr. Zoe Walkington Dr. Camilla Elphick Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Editor: Jason Phipps Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds #BadPeople_BBC

In 1997 Lyle May murdered a young mother and her son, allegedly after being annoyed by them at a dinner party. He was later convicted of two counts of first-degree murder and is now on North Carolina’s Death Row. Should he be allowed to get a prison education? In this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss the link between prison education and violence and overcoming the self-stigmatisation of inmates. They also speak with Stephen Akpabio-Klementowski, who went to prison in 2002 and is now an Associate Lecturer in Criminology at The Open University. He tells us about life behind bars, the challenges of learning in the noisy environment of a prison and whether rehabilitation and punishment can coexist. Warning: This episode contains strong language and references to murder and suicide. This episode contains archive from BBC Storyville College Behind Bars. Presenters: Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Simona Rata Editor: Rami Tzabar Music: Matt Chandler Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds #BadPeople_BBC

American film producer Harvey Weinstein has been sentenced to 23 years in prison for two separate cases of sexual assault. Women have made allegations of Weinstein committing sexual assault over decades. Are people who witnessed his crimes but didn’t speak up partly to blame for his long history of misconduct? And, what is it about some workplaces that make them particularly likely to lead to people not speaking up when things go wrong? On this episode of Bad People, Dr. Julia Shaw and comedian Sofie Hagen discuss why people don’t speak out about sexual assault and harassment in the work place. They are joined by Dr. Camilla Elphick from the Open University, who shares her research on why so many witnesses choose not to speak up, and how we can mobilise witnesses to help alleviate the burden of reporting from victims of harassment and discrimination. This episode includes audio from Untouchable: The Rise and Fall of Harvey Weinstein produced by Lightbox Media Limited. Warning: This episode contains strong language and discussion of sexual assault. CREDITS Presenters: Dr. Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Caroline Steel Artwork: Kingsley Nebechi Music: Matt Chandler Series Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for The Open University: Dr. Zoe Walkington and Dr. Camilla Elphick Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Editor: Jason Phipps Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds #BadPeople_BBC

Children are playing on the grounds of a former Irish Mother and Baby Home in Tuam when they find 20 tiny skeletons under a concrete slab. Stories follow that shock the world, of over 800 babies found in a septic tank. But who is to blame? Years later, an investigation into the Bon Secours Home establishes that 978 babies and children died on the grounds while it was run by Catholic nuns. The 2021 report of the Commission of Investigation into Mother and Baby Homes draws attention to the horrific treatment of unmarried mothers in Ireland throughout the 20th century, who often had nowhere to go but to these mismanaged and abusive homes. The leader of Ireland, the Taoiseach, apologised for the profound and generational wrong which was the result of stifling, oppressive and brutally misogynistic culture. But, how did it get so far? And, what can we do to make sure such a situation doesn’t happen again? In this episode of Bad People, criminal psychologist Dr Julia Shaw and comedian Sofie Hagen try to understand why society still judges young mums, examine the concept of coercive confinement, and explore research on religion-related child maltreatment. This episode includes audio from a Video dramatization of individuals' stories produced by the Commission of Investigation into Mother and Baby Homes and Certain Related Matters. Warning: This episode contains strong language and descriptions of violence CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Paula McGrath Artwork: Kingsley Nebechi Music: Matt Chandler Series Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for The Open University: Dr. Zoe Walkington Dr. Camilla Elphick Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Editor: Jason Phipps Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds. #BadPeople_BBC

William Melchert-Dinkle posed as a female nurse online and encouraged people with suicidal thoughts to hang themselves. He even watched some of them carry it out via webcam. He was convicted of assisting suicide and given a prison sentence. But, this is an unusual case. Does criminalising assisted dying protect vulnerable people or take the power away from people to choose when and how they die? Geoff Whaley suffered from motor neurone disease and campaigned for assisted suicide to be legalised so his wife could legally help him travel to Switzerland to end his life at Dignitas. He advocated for the right to die with dignity and physician-assisted suicide, where doctors prescribe drugs for eligible patients to self-administer to end their own life. Tony Nicklinson suffered from locked in syndrome and campaigned for voluntary euthanasia to be legal. Do laws against assisted dying discriminate against people with disabilities? On this episode of Bad People Dr Julia Shaw and comedian Sofie Hagen discuss whether we can strike a balance between protecting vulnerable people while also empowering people to have autonomy over their own death. This episode includes audio form Dateline NBC and Channel 4’s Dispatches. Warning: This episode contains strong language and discussion of suicide. CREDITS Presenters: Dr. Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Caroline Steel Artwork: Kingsley Nebechi Music: Matt Chandler Series Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for The Open University: Dr. Zoe Walkington Dr. Camilla Elphick Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Editor: Jason Phipps Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds #BadPeople_BBC

On the 19th February 2008, nine-year-old Shannon Matthews went missing in Dewsbury in West Yorkshire. She had just been dropped off by a coach at her school which was just half a mile from her home. Shannon’s best friend said her brother was supposed to be collecting her but he never turned up. Shannon’s mum Karen reported her missing later that evening. The Police moved quickly for fear that she had been abducted. Emotional TV appeals by her mother, Karen, soon followed. At one stage, up to 250 officers and 60 detectives and half the UK’s Police sniffer dogs were involved in the search – making it at one time, one of the largest investigations since the Yorkshire Ripper case 30 years earlier. As the search grew more frantic, suspicion started to fall on her family. First on Karen’s boyfriend and then on Karen herself. In this episode, Julia and Sofie talk about the disappearance of Shannon Matthews, the issue of social class and victimhood and research by Dr Leanne ten Brinke on analysing videos of pleaders to see if it is possible to detect high-stakes lies. Warning: This episode contains strong language and references to murder, child abduction and suicide. Presenters: Dr. Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Paula McGrath Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Artwork: Kingsley Nebechi Music: Matt Chandler Series Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for The Open University: Dr. Zoe Walkington Dr. Camilla Elphick Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Editor: Jason Phipps Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds #BadPeople_BBC

On the 22nd of April 1972, the police in the southeast London borough of Lewisham were alerted to a house fire on Doggett Road. On the second floor of the building, they discovered the body of 26-year-old Maxwell Confait. Three boys later confessed to the murder. In this episode of Bad People, Dr. Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen examine what went wrong in the police interviewing process, the major legal reforms that followed and their implications for police practices in the UK today. We also hear from Dr. Zoe Walkington of The Open University on what it’s like to train detectives and does the ‘good cop, bad cop’ style of interviewing ever work? Warning: This episode contains strong language and references to murder and suicide. Presenters: Dr. Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Simona Rata Artwork: Kingsley Nebechi Music: Matt Chandler Series Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for The Open University: Dr. Zoe Walkington Dr. Camilla Elphick Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Editor: Jason Phipps Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds #BadPeople_BBC

The former President of Iraq, Saddam Hussein, was implicated in the killing of between 50,000 and 100,000 people. In 2006, he was sentenced to death by hanging for committing crimes against humanity. But do his crimes justify his death? Should we be writing him off as evil or is it worth trying to empathise with him? And does revenge actually make us feel good in the long run? Warning: This episode contains strong language and descriptions of violence Presenters: Dr. Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producers: Louisa Field & Caroline Steel Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Artwork: Kingsley Nebechi Music: Matt Chandler Series Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for The Open University: Dr. Zoe Walkington Dr. Camilla Elphick Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Editor: Jason Phipps Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds #BadPeople_BBC

Popstar Nadja Benaissa was convicted of recklessly transmitting HIV. She was blackmailed and attacked by the press. Did she deserve the hatred she received? On this episode of Bad People, presenters Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss whether knowingly spreading an infectious disease should be criminalised and what that means for COVID-19 rule breakers. Is consenting to getting HIV legally possible? What are the ethical problems raised by putting someone with HIV or AIDS in prison? And why are we obsessed with hunting down ‘patient 0’? Find out how all of these questions and more, apply to our psychology and behaviour during the COVID-19 pandemic. This episode includes citations from The Guardian Interview with Nadja Benaissa, ‘I knew I was HIV positive’. Warning: This episode contains strong language and references to HIV/AIDS, COVID-19, and drugs and addiction. Presenters: Dr. Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producers: Louisa Field & Caroline Steel Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Artwork: Kingsley Nebechi Music: Matt Chandler Series Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for The Open University: Dr. Zoe Walkington Dr. Camilla Elphick Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Editor: Jason Phipps Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds #BadPeople_BBC

Murderers. Dictators. Sex offenders. Why do people do bad things? Bad People is back for another series. Archive credits: This episode contains audio from House of Saddam, a BBC Television and HBO Films production, and Shannon: The Mother of All Lies, a BBC Panorama production. Presenters: Dr. Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producers: Louisa Field & Caroline Steel Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Series Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for Open University: Dr. Zoe Walkington Dr. Camilla Elphick Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Editor: Jason Phipps The new series of Bad People is produced in partnership with the Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds #BadPeople_BBC

Charles Sobhraj is a convicted killer and the inspiration for the new BBC One drama, The Serpent. Julia and Sofie speak with producer Paul Testar about the unlikely history of Interpol, missing persons, and Sobhraj’s many escapes. We also hear audio clips from Herman Knippenberg, who played a crucial role in Sobhraj’s capture. Find out how he once tunnelled a hole through the ceiling of a jewellery shop, faked the symptoms of appendicitis, and threw a birthday party for the Tihar Jail’s prison guards – and even why there is a statue of him in a restaurant in Goa, India. Warning: This episode contains strong language and references to violence and murder. Presenters: Dr. Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Series Editor: Rami Tzabar Commissioning Producer: Hannah Rose Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Editor: Jason Phipps Bad People is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds #BadPeople_BBC

Charles Sobhraj is a convicted killer and the inspiration for the new BBC One drama, The Serpent. Julia and Sofie speak with Julie Clark, journalist and author of On the Trail of the Serpent: The Life and Crimes of Charles Sobhraj. Julie and her late husband Richard Neville met Sobhraj. What is he really like? And we hear from Sobhraj himself as Julie shares a secret recording from his cell. Spending so much time with Sobhraj landed Julie and Richard in a tricky situation, Sobhraj told them he had plans to break out of jail. Did they tell the police? What should journalists do when they find themselves in similar moral dilemmas? And do Julie’s observations suggest that Sobhraj is a psychopath? Warning: This episode contains strong language and references to violence and murder. Presenters: Dr. Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producers: Paula McGrath and Caroline Steel Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Series Editor: Rami Tzabar Commissioning Producer: Hannah Rose Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Editor: Jason Phipps Bad People is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds #BadPeople_BBC

What happens when a man serving multiple life sentences keeps killing in prison? In July 1996, while in solitary confinement, Craig Bjork wrote to the warden of Stillwater prison in Minnesota threatening to commit mass murder against his fellow inmates. One year later he kills his first victim. Bjork who was already serving three consecutive life terms for killing his entire family reportedly asked ‘what can they do? Give me more time?’ On this episode of Bad People presenters Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss and a phenomenon called ‘prisonisation, violence and sexual assault in prison, and the importance of keeping inmates safe. Warning: This episode contains references to violence in prisons, sexual assault, extreme violence against children and executions. Archive credits: This episode includes audio from The Star Tribune newspaper. Presenters: Dr. Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Series Editor: Rami Tzabar Commissioning Producer: Hannah Rose Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Editor: Jason Phipps Bad People is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds #BadPeople_BBC

Early one morning in July 2019, Brandon Clark used his online platform to share graphic photos with his followers, including a photo that appeared to show a woman’s bloodied torso, captioned “I’m sorry Bianca”. Not long after this, police found Brandon lying on top of a green tarp. He had spray-painted the words “May you never forget me” on the ground. He had killed 17-year-old ‘micro-influencer’ Bianca Devins. Why did he choose to broadcast her murder? Sofie Hagen and Dr Julia Shaw discuss ‘e-girls’, research on jealousy and male proprietariness, and what we need to consider to avoid similar horrific acts happening in the future. Warning: Contains strong language and references to violence and murder. Archive credits: This episode contains audio from WIBX's Keeler Show and eyewitness news Utica Presenters: Dr. Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Caroline Steel Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Series Editor: Rami Tzabar Commissioning Producer: Hannah Rose Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Editor: Jason Phipps Bad People is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds #BadPeople_BBC

Charles Sobhraj is a convicted killer and the inspiration for the new BBC One drama, The Serpent. Julia and Sofie speak with producer Paul Testar to learn what it was about Sobhraj that inspired this show. Was it the nature of his crimes? His charm? Or something else? Julia and Sofie discuss Maslow’s hierarchy of needs and how this famous construct was partly inspired by hippie culture. Perhaps Maslow can help us better understand how Sobhraj appealed to so many people travelling abroad? Warning: This episode contains strong language and references to violence and murder. Presenters: Dr. Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producers: Caroline Steel Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Series Editor: Rami Tzabar Commissioning Producer: Hannah Rose Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Editor: Jason Phipps Bad People is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds #BadPeople_BBC

When far-right terrorist Anders Breivik murdered 77 people, many of whom were children, court-appointed psychiatrists declared him insane. Many Norwegian members of the public were angry that a diagnosis of a psychotic disorder would mean he would not be held accountable for his crimes and might even be freed early. He told doctors that he was the leader of a military group at war with Norway, committed to racist, anti-Muslim ideas. Breivik himself rejected the "insanity defence", insistent that he committed the mass murders with the aim of achieving high-profile media coverage at his trial. This episode of Bad People wrestles with the problem of giving media platforms to terrorists, radicalised by the internet A second evaluation found him to be sane. This time psychiatrists said that his symptoms were due to a severe narcissistic personality disorder combined with pathological lying and therefore he was accountable for his actions. 22 July 2011 forever changed Norway's relationship with homegrown extremism and it's hoped that the knowledge gained by psychiatrists about such terrorists will help to prevent future attacks. Warning: This episode contains descriptions terrorism, extreme violence and death, including the death of children. Archive credits: This episode includes audio from the United Nations, TEDx Talks and BBC News Presenters: Dr. Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Paula McGrath Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Series Editor: Rami Tzabar Commissioning Producer: Hannah Rose Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Editor: Jason Phipps Bad People is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds #BadPeople_BBC

On February 7th 2009, Australia experienced its worst natural disaster. The weeks-long intense heat and gale force winds culminated in 400 separate wildfires which ended up taking 173 lives. In the town of Churchill, detectives began an investigation which led them to believe that one man, driving a sky-blue sedan, may be responsible for 10 of those deaths. After the arrest, detectives quickly realised that the man in their custody was not who they thought they'd be dealing with. On this episode of Bad People, presenters Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss wildfire arson, the dubious origin of the link between sex and fire and how we can tell when someone is malingering. Archive credits: This episode includes audio from ABC, Inside The Mind of An Arsonist. Presenters: Dr. Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Series Editor: Rami Tzabar Commissioning Producer: Hannah Rose Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Editor: Jason Phipps Bad People is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds #BadPeople_BBC

If a killer refuses to reveal where they’ve hidden a body – should they have to stay in prison? Helen McCourt’s family campaigned for the UK to adopt an Australian-style “no body, no parole” law – but would it be adopted in time to stop the release of her killer? In 1989 pub landlord Ian Simms was one of the first people in the UK to be convicted on DNA evidence without the victim's body having been found. Sentenced to at least 16 years in jail for Helen's murder, Simms still claims he's innocent. The jury were convinced by forensic evidence such as traces of Helen's blood which were found in Simms' flat and car. An opal and pearl earring identical to one Helen was wearing when she went missing was also found in the boot of his car. Although "no body, no parole" might act as a deterrent to some offenders who choose not to reveal where their victim's body is, we also hear hear about concerns that it might interfere with the goals of rehabilitating offenders and reducing re-offending. The 750,000 signatories to a petition supporting Helen's Law believe that the needs of families whose pain continues as long as they have no body to bury should be prioritised. Helen's mum Marie McCourt hopes that one day she will be able to take flowers to Helen's grave. Presenters: Dr. Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producers: Paula McGrath and Caroline Steel Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Series Editor: Rami Tzabar Commissioning Producer: Hannah Rose Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Editor: Jason Phipps Bad People is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds #BadPeople_BBC

There were signs that the former polo player Alexander Lewis Ranwell was unravelling in early 2019. He’d lost his job and his girlfriend, was living in a caravan and was no longer taking medication to treat his delusions or hallucinations. He’d been diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia and had a history of substance abuse. He was arrested after letting loose animals and attacking a farmer and later released by the police, despite his bizarre behaviour. A short walk from the train he took to Exeter he came across a house where the elderly resident had a note on his door: he was looking for accommodation for himself and his cat. Suffering from delusions, Lewis Ranwell believed himself to be a policeman, hunting down paedophiles, and that a missing girl was being held prisoner in homes he randomly selected. In the two houses he visited three elderly men were found dead. No one at Exeter Crown Court could remember the defence of insanity being used in a case before – so how difficult is it to prove? In this episode of Bad People, presenters Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen explore the reality of paranoid schizophrenia, exposing some of the myths which exist in popular culture and stigmatise mental illness. Warning: This episode contains strong language and references to murder and violence. Presenters: Dr. Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Paula McGrath Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Series Editor: Rami Tzabar Commissioning Producer: Hannah Rose Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Editor: Jason Phipps Bad People is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds #BadPeople_BBC

An excavation reveals horrific truths about Robert Pickton. The bodies of dozens of women are unearthed on a pig farm, many of whom are sex workers and indigenous. Pickton’s defence team argues that he has a low IQ and was used as a pawn. On this episode of Bad People, presenters Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss how Canadian police failed indigenous women and talk to Professor Stephen Hart who worked with the prosecution in the Pickton case to discover what we can really know about one of Canada’s most notorious serial killers. This case is broken into two episodes. This is part two. We highly recommend you listen to part one before tuning into this episode. Warning: This episode contains strong language and references to sexual violence and murder. Archive credits: This episode includes audio from East Van Production’s documentary, The Pig Farm. Reference: Sentencing decision: R v Robert William Pickton [2007] BCSC 2039 Presenters: Dr. Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Caroline Steel Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Series Editor: Rami Tzabar Commissioning Producer: Hannah Rose Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Editor: Jason Phipps Bad People is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds #BadPeople_BBC

Over 60 sex workers go missing in Vancouver. Robert Pickton is a pig farmer. There are stories of bloodied women's clothes on his farm and even a dead body hanging in a barn. But this isn’t enough for the police to search his property. Could he be to blame? On this episode of Bad People, presenters Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss research on why people don’t always tell the truth and often retract police statements. This case is broken into two episodes. This is part one. Warning: This episode contains strong language and references to sexual violence and murder. Presenters: Dr. Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producers: Paula McGrath and Caroline Steel Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Series Editor: Rami Tzabar Commissioning Producer: Hannah Rose Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Editor: Jason Phipps Bad People is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds #BadPeople_BBC

Hospitals are places of safety, where staff help people to get better. So the parents of four children left in the care of Beverley Allitt never imagined that she’d harm them. The 22 year old nurse was convicted of their murders and harming 9 others on Ward Four at the Grantham and Kesteven hospital in Lincolnshire in 1991. Police worked out that Allitt was the only person present for all of the unexplained collapses and that she had reported the key to the insulin fridge missing. Childhood friends and nurses she trained with later told of her self-harm and bizarre behaviour including finding faeces in the fridge. In this episode of Bad People, presenters Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss the self-harming seen in Munchausen Syndrome - and how it can develop into Munchausen by Proxy - where a caregiver induces or fabricates a child’s illness. They ask: could Allitt have been stopped earlier? Warning: This episode contains strong language and references to violence against children. Archive credits: This episode contains audio from Real Stories, Sky, ITV. Presenters: Dr. Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Paula McGrath Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Series Editor: Rami Tzabar Commissioning Producer: Hannah Rose Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Editor: Jason Phipps Bad People is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds #BadPeople_BBC

People have been going missing from Toronto’s Gay Village since the 70s. The gay community claims that the police are not taking the disappearances seriously enough. The pieces start to fall into place when one man goes missing and leaves a diary entry for that day saying “Bruce”. Police survey a Bruce McArther, a gardener and mall Santa. When they see him enter his flat with another man, they break the door down only to find a man handcuffed to his bed. On this episode of Bad People, presenters Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen uncover why there are very few serial killers over the age of 40, and why people from vulnerable populations are less likely to be reported missing. Warning: This episode contains strong language and references to sexual violence, and murder. Archive credits: This episode includes audio from CBC, Global News and W5. Presenters: Dr. Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Caroline Steel Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Series Editor: Rami Tzabar Commissioning Producer: Hannah Rose Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Editor: Jason Phipps Bad People is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds #BadPeople_BBC

Murderers. Psychopaths. Sex offenders. Why do people do bad things? Bad People is back. Warning: Contains strong language and references to sexual violence and murder. Archive credits: This episode contains audio from CTV Television network and Global News. Presenters: Dr. Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producers: Paula McGrath and Caroline Steel Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Series Editor: Rami Tzabar Commissioning Producer: Hannah Rose Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Editor: Jason Phipps Bad People is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds #BadPeople_BBC

Elizabeth Holmes is the world’s youngest self made female billionaire. But her nine billion dollar startup disintegrated when the truth came out. On this episode of Bad People, presenters Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss how to tell if someone is trustworthy or not. Also, why we are so easily fooled by a pretty face and false promises. Warning: This episode contains strong language and references to sexual violence and child abuse. Presenters: Dr. Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Caroline Steel Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Series Editor: Rami Tzabar Commissioning Producer: Hannah Rose Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Editor: Jason Phipps Bad People is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds #BadPeople_BBC

In the small Danish town Tønder, a man is talking to a friend when the conversation takes a dark turn. His friend asks him whether he wants to have sex with an 11-year-old girl. He immediately alerts the police. On this episode of Bad People, presenters Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss how violence is - and isn’t - passed down through generations. Also on the show, the psychology of child sexual abuse and exploitation, and why it’s so important to have difficult conversations about paedophilia. Warning: This episode contains strong language and references to sexual violence and child abuse. Presenters: Dr. Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producers: Louisa Field and Caroline Steel Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Series Editor: Rami Tzabar Commissioning Producer: Hannah Rose Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Editor: Jason Phipps Bad People is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds #BadPeople_BBC

Some 10 million tonnes of industrial waste has reportedly been dumped in a small Italian town over the past 30 years. The local mafia is suspected of securing lucrative contracts to dispose of waste and then dumping it illegally. Three decades ago doctors noticed that incidences of cancer in towns around the dumping site were on the rise. But the dumping is still happening. How can large scale crime like this take place right underneath our noses? What is it about green crime that makes us “ethically blind”? Warning: This episode contains strong language. Presenters: Dr. Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producers: Louisa Field and Caroline Steel Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Series Editor: Rami Tzabar Commissioning Producer: Hannah Rose Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Editor: Jason Phipps Bad People is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds #BadPeople_BBC

Two friends knock on Angie Dodge’s door and find her lying on the floor. She had been raped, stabbed and her throat cut. The police arrive, take DNA samples from the scene and start rounding up suspects. Chris Tapp was 20 years old at the time and though his DNA did not match the crime scene samples, he was called in. A few questions turned into over 100 hours of interrogations and seven polygraph tests. By the end of it, Chris confesses to killing Angie – a crime he had no recollection of committing. On this episode of Bad People, presenters Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss how you might end up confessing to a crime you didn’t commit. Warning: This episode contains strong language and references to sexual violence and murder. Archive credits: This episode contains audio from police tapes. Presenters: Dr. Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producers: Louisa Field and Caroline Steel Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Series Editor: Rami Tzabar Commissioning Producer: Hannah Rose Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Editor: Jason Phipps Bad People is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds #BadPeople_BBC

NOTE – Discussion of this case was correct at the time of broadcast. An update – which includes the exoneration of the three boys – is outlined below. Two six-year-old boys and a 5-year-old girl, Silje, are on a playground in the Norwegian town Trondheim. The next day Silje is found dead. The boys had punched and kicked the five-year-old girl before stripping off her clothes and leaving her to die. How does this Norwegian case, and it’s response, compare to the famous case of James Bulger in the UK? At what age should we be held responsible for our actions? Nations struggle to decide how to answer this question, and some community responses shatter our expectations - for better or for worse. In this episode of Bad People, presenters Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss the age-old debate of nature versus nurture. Warning: This episode contains strong language and references to murder and child abuse. Update: This case was reopened after Norwegian broadcaster NRK released a documentary series called ‘Murder in the Sledge’. It in, the investigation revealed that the boys were never formally questioned, and thus they were never interviewed by police while being fully informed of their rights. The resulting criticism led to the public prosecutor ordering a resumption of the case. On February 17th 2023, the public prosecutor stated that “on the basis of the investigation that has been carried out, we have not been able to conclude who inflicted violence on Silje.” The state concluded that the three boys who were blamed for the death of a five-year-old girl in Trondheim in 1994 are “to be considered innocent.” Presenters: Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Assistant producer: Simona Rata Editor: Rami Tzabar Music: Matt Chandler #BadPeople_BBC Archive credits: This episode contains audio from police tapes.

A man breaks into Jennifer Thompson’s apartment, severs her phone wires and rapes her. Jennifer studies his face, hoping to remember enough details so that she can identify him later. In a police line-up, Jennifer is able to point out Ronald Cotton as her rapist and in two separate trials he is convicted of rape and burglary. He is sentenced to life in prison plus fifty-four years. It seems like the case is resolved. There’s only one problem: Cotton is innocent. On this episode of Bad People, presenters Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss why we should all be weary of our memory when identifying a person of a different race. Warning: This episode contains strong language and references to sexual violence. Archive credits: This episode contains audio from CBS News and CDI (La Ciudad de Ias Ideas) International Festival. CREDITS: Presenters: Dr. Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Series Editor: Rami Tzabar Commissioning Producer: Hannah Rose Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Editor: Jason Phipps Bad People is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds #BadPeople_BBC

Police officer Gilberto Valle opens the door to find his house surrounded by the FBI. His wife had discovered gruesome stories of kidnap and cannibalism that Valle had written about more than 100 women in an online forum. Among the stories, the wife found a detailed description of how Valle wanted to cook her alive and eat her. Valle argued that he never intended to hurt anyone and that it was all fantasy. He was sentenced to life in prison but was later released. He became known as the “cannibal cop”. On this episode of Bad People, hosts Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss whether we should police people’s thoughts, and ask whether we should fear our own dark fantasies. What is the line between fiction and reality? Warning: This episode contains strong language and references to murder, cannibalism and sexual violence. Archive credits: This episode contains audio from Crime Watch Daily and HBO Documentary Films. CREDITS: Presenters: Dr. Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Series Editor: Rami Tzabar Commissioning Producer: Hannah Rose Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Editor: Jason Phipps Bad People is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds #BadPeople_BBC

John was home alone with his father when he suddenly remembers being abused as a child. In a fit of rage he strangles his father to death. In 2017 John wrote to Julia from prison. He had an unnerving inkling – maybe he hadn't been abused by his father, maybe everything he thought he knew about why he killed his dad was wrong. On this episode of Bad People, hosts Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss whether we can trust our own memories and the consequences of ‘false memories’. They discuss the work of professor Elizabeth Loftus who pioneered the work on false memories, as well as the research Julia has conducted on implanting false memories of committing crime. Warning: This episode contains strong language and references to murder and child abuse. CREDITS: Presenters: Dr. Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Series Editor: Rami Tzabar Commissioning Producer: Hannah Rose Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Editor: Jason Phipps Bad People is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds #BadPeople_BBC

A high school house party is in full swing in the quiet town of Peachland, Canada. Suddenly, hysterical screams are heard. 16-year-old Ashlee Hyatt has been stabbed to death in the middle of the driveway. Piece by piece we learn about the girl who is ultimately convicted of manslaughter, relating it to the story of the Canadian “Barbie” serial killer, Karla Homolka and notorious Hungarian countess Elizabeth Báthory. Murder is a typically committed by men, and the victims are mostly other men. Globally, women represent less than 5 percent of perpetrators. On this episode of Bad People, presenters Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss when and how women kill. Warning: This episode contains strong language and references to sexual violence and murder. Archive credits: This episode includes audio from SkyTV, Castanet News and National Geographic. CREDITS: Presenters: Dr. Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Series Editor: Rami Tzabar Commissioning Producer: Hannah Rose Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Editor: Jason Phipps Bad People is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds #BadPeople_BBC

In the summer of 1984 a serial killer was on the loose in Los Angeles. Richard Ramirez or the ‘night stalker’ as he would come to be known, broke into people’s houses as they slept and then proceeded to rape, torture and murder whoever was inside. He would sometimes draw satanic pentagrams on the victims’ bodies, and use their own blood to write messages on the wall. During his trial, Ramirez gained a large group of admirers, so-called ‘murder-groupies’. He would go on to receive hundreds of letters while in prison and even got married while on death row. Ramirez is not alone in getting this kind of romantic attention. Cult leader Charles Manson, Norwegian mass murderer Anders Breivik and Danish killer Peter Madsen have all received fan-mail. On this episode of Bad People, presenters Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen uncover why some women seek out romantic relationships with men who have committed horrific crimes. Warning: This episode contains strong language and references to sexual violence, Satanism and murder. Archive credits: This episode includes audio from DailyMotion, NBC Universal and KRON4. CREDITS: Presenters: Dr. Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Series Editor: Rami Tzabar Commissioning Producer: Hannah Rose Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Editor: Jason Phipps Bad People is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds #BadPeople_BBC

Murders. Sex offenders. Corporate psychopaths. Cannibals. This is a podcast about the people we consider to be the worst around.